I know we can eat meat but can we eat pork?

[Beloved]

Just for a bit of background, I used to be agnostic and I just became a Christian this year. So a lot about being a Christian is new to me. I've never even read the bible before January 2009. Even so, I'd always believed in my heart that there is a God. Studying the human body actually strengthened my belief that there is a God Almighty. I just didn't want to be tied down to any religion made by man. [This is the difference between agnostics and atheists. Agnostics do believe in a higher power, where atheists do not.]

To me, every religion seemed to say the same thing to me, “WE ARE RIGHT! And if you don't believe us then you will suffer in one way or another!” Whether it be bad karma, suffering in the next life, or [the most popular] going to hell.

Anyway, I was reading the bible and came across scriptures in Deuteronomy 14 about God saying what animals we can and can't eat. And I have to say, it's really confusing scripture! [But I did find out that the word 'coney' means ' rock badger'.] I really want to understand God's word. I've asked God for clarity and the response that came to me [which answered many questions I had as a new believer] was this very website! 8) So I thought I mine as well use the forums to try to gain understanding.

I actually have 3 questions instead of one. And these are for anyone who can answer them and give me scripture to see for myself.

 1.) Even though God tells us we can eat meat, can we eat pork and sea creatures without fins and scales?

2.) When Jesus gave us the new commandments, [as he said, he came to fulfill the old ones] by fulfilling them did he negate the old commandments for the rest of us? Another way of asking this would be; Did Jesus make it so the laws of the Old Testament don't apply to us anymore and we just have to follow the New Testament and the laws of Love?

– I ask this for the sake of seafood. Because if Jesus negated the old laws, that means I can have some shrimp scampi for dinner. As long as I have love in my heart for God, Jesus, and everyone else [thy neighbor].

3.) Where in the Bible does it EVER mention fasting and that we have to fast?

– For one, I can't find it. Secondly, 1 month after I became a Christian, my pastor declared the church [the people], to have a 1 month fast by eating vegetables and berries and drinking water only. I participated in the fast because I thought it was what I was supposed to do to show appreciation to God. I have hypoglycemia to the point where it will literally cause me to drop dead if I don't maintain the right eating habits. I have a strict diet given to me by both my endocrinologist and nutritionist. Doing the fast with the church took me off my diet and I got sick and lost a LOT of weight.  

I will admit, I did the fast out of a feeling of obligation [everyone else in my immediate family was doing it] moreso than to sacrifice something from my daily life for God. My mother stopped making meals with meat, etc. Basically, I had no choice but to follow the fast since that was the ONLY food prepared at home and my original diet discourages me from fast food and unhealthy foods found in your local grocery store. But honestly, I can't find a scripture that says we have to even fast at all. I did the fast as a new believer who knew next to nothing about Christ or the bible.

I hope somebody can help me out. I do eat pork, but rarely. To be precise, I eat pork about once or twice a month. I really like seafood and if it turns out that I can in fact eat it, then I will continue to.

What confused me was that I found a scripture way after Deuteronomy that says something along the lines of “Who are you to judge the animals I made to be unclean? Everything I made and comes from me is good.” I know the reason people choose to not eat pork is because it is believed to be unclean by many.

I ask that somebody bring me some clarity in all 3 questions that I have.

[NickHassan]

Hi and welcome B,
Acts 10 may help.
Being joined with Jesus does not apply to you laws and covenants given to the Jews.
Fear of judgement does not apply to those who have passed from death to life and do not come under condemnation.

[georg]

Welcome Beloved!   We came out of the Catholic Church, into the W.W.Church of God were we did not eat Pork, and kept the Old Testament Law.  Until 1994 when the Church went back to believing in the trinity and we left, because we don't belief in the trinity,  We are not under the Old t. Law and Covenant.  We really never were. The New Covenant is listed in
Luke 22:20  …”This cup is the new covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you.

And the Comandment of the new Covenant is in
Math. 2:37 “You shall love the LORD your God wth all of your heart, and all of your soul, and all of your mind.”
verse 38 This is the first and great commandment.
verse 39 “And the second is like it “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
verse 40 “On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

This is what we, my Husband and I, go by today. We eat any kind of Meat. It was a commandment of the Old Covenant. I want to warn you that there are some that will not agree with that, and want to keep the Sabbath and the Old Covenant.

Also if you have not been Baptized according to Scriptures, I would advice you to do so.   I have experienced that God will give you some of His Holy Spirit, but not enough to really understand His word.
God's Holy Spirit will convict you of all truths.

I wish you all the good things that come from God.
Bless you, and may the Peace of God be with you, Irene

[Constitutionalist]

Beloved some of us believe in Keeping a clean diet, while others don't, it is always your choice, some in here say the bible did away with it, I do not not believe that is so.

But just in case you wish to know the clean and unclean, here is a list:

Clean Foods

Mammals

Antelope
Bison
Buffalo
Cattle
Caribou
Deer
Elk
Gazelle
Giraffe
Goat
Hart
Ibex
Moose
Reindeer
Sheep

Fish

Albacore
Anchovy
Bass
Bluefish
Bonita
Carp
Cod
Crappie
Drum
Flounder
Garfish
Grouper
Grunt
Haddock
Halibut
Hardhead
Herring
Mackerel
Minnow
Perch
Pickerel
Pike
Rockfish
Salmon
Shad
Sheepshead
Skipjack
Smelt
Snapper
Sole
Sunfish
Tarpon
Trout
Tuna
Yellowtail

Birds

Chicken
Dove
Duck
Goose
Grouse
Guinea fowl
Partridge
Peacock
Pheasant
Pigeon
Songbirds
Sparrow
Quail
Turkey

Creatures

Crickets
Grasshoppers
Locusts

[Constitutionalist]

Unclean Foods

Mammals

Badger
Bear
Camel
Cat
Cheetah
Coney
Coyote
Dog
Donkey
Elephant
Ferret
Fox
Gorilla
Hare
Hippopotamus
Horse
Hyena
Jackal
Kangaroo
Leopard
Lion
Llama
Monkey
Mule
Opossum
Panther
Porcupine
Rabbit
Raccoon
Rhinoceros
Skunk
Squirrel
Swine
Tiger
Wallaby
Wolf
Zebra

Sea Creatures

Abalone
Catfish
Clam
Crab
Crayfish
Cuttlefish
Eel
Jellyfish
Limpet
Lobster
Marlin
Mussel
Octopus
Otter
Oyster
Porpoise
Prawn
Scallop
Seal
Shark
Shrimp
Squid
Sturgeon
Tarbot
Walrus
Whale

[Constitutionalist]

Unclean Foods

Birds

Albatross
Bat
Bittern
Buzzard
Condor
Cormorant
Crane
Crow
Cuckoo
Eagle
Flamingo
Glede
Grosbeck
Gull
Hawk
Heron
Kite
Lapwing
Loon
Ossifrage
Osprey
Ostrich
Owl
Pelican
Penguin
Plover
Raven
Stork
Swallow
Swift
Vulture
Water hen
Woodpecker

Creatures

Alligator
All insects, except locust family
Crocodile
Frog
Ground hog
Lizard
Mole
Mouse
Newt
Rat
Salamander
Snail
Snake
Slug
Toad
Turtle
Weasel

I hope that helps.

[Constitutionalist]

1.) Even though God tells us we can eat meat, can we eat pork and sea creatures without fins and scales?

I kicked the habit years ago, you will notice more energy as well as vibrant look, by keeping Gods food list.

I say we should follow Gods health plan.

[Constitutionalist]

2.) When Jesus gave us the new commandments, [as he said, he came to fulfill the old ones] by fulfilling them did he negate the old commandments for the rest of us? Another way of asking this would be; Did Jesus make it so the laws of the Old Testament don't apply to us anymore and we just have to follow the New Testament and the laws of Love?

Many in here believe Jesus destroyed the Law and the Prophets, or it was for the Jews only.

I do not believe he destroyed them, I believe he destroyed the curse that came by disobeying the law.

I also believe the Gentiles are grafted in, and are true Israelites, there fore all still stands.

I believe that through Grace we can keep his commandments.

[Constitutionalist]

3.) Where in the Bible does it EVER mention fasting and that we have to fast?

The book of Acts records believers fasting before they made important decisions (Acts 13:4, 14:23).

Fasting and prayer are often linked together (Luke 2:37; 5:33).

Although fasting in Scripture is almost always a fasting from food, there are other ways to fast. Anything given up temporarily in order to focus all our attention on God can be considered a fast (1 Corinthians 7:1-5).

Fasting is to be done in a spirit of humility and a joyful attitude. Matthew 6:16-18 declares, “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

[Tim Kraft]

Beloved: I have one very strong recomendation for you. I could tell by your questions that you have been reading your Bible and learning for yourself. You have the Holy Spirit within to guide you to all truth. Stay within yourself listen to the voice of love within you and study the Bible asking for the truth. This way you can choose your path of faith in God and it will make you strong in your choices. Trust your own choices and decisions. Listening to others early on tends to influence a path for you that they have chosen. As you find you own freedoms to do as you please hold fast to your own truth. Deception and untruth will come quickly to rob your freedom in Christ.Do not listen to them. What is yours is yours with God! May God Bless you and yours, TK

[georg]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Nov. 03 2009,21:36)

Beloved: I have one very strong recomendation for you. I could tell by your questions that you have been reading your Bible and learning for yourself. You have the Holy Spirit within to guide you to all truth. Stay within yourself listen to the voice of love within you and study the Bible asking for the truth. This way you can choose your path of faith in God and it will make you strong in your choices. Trust your own choices and decisions. Listening to others early on tends to influence a path for you that they have chosen. As you find you own freedoms to do as you please hold fast to your own truth. Deception and untruth will come quickly to rob your freedom in Christ.Do not listen to them. What is yours is yours with God! May God Bless you and yours, TK

T.K. That is very good advice and not only that I agree with it.
God Bless, Irene

[Beloved]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Nov. 03 2009,21:36)

Beloved: I have one very strong recomendation for you. I could tell by your questions that you have been reading your Bible and learning for yourself. You have the Holy Spirit within to guide you to all truth. Stay within yourself listen to the voice of love within you and study the Bible asking for the truth. This way you can choose your path of faith in God and it will make you strong in your choices. Trust your own choices and decisions. Listening to others early on tends to influence a path for you that they have chosen. As you find you own freedoms to do as you please hold fast to your own truth. Deception and untruth will come quickly to rob your freedom in Christ.Do not listen to them. What is yours is yours with God! May God Bless you and yours, TK

Thank you! The responses that I got did in fact answer my questions. =]

I think that I can go without eating certain foods anymore. I mean I already gave up sweets due to my health.

But as the foods come along and into my sight, I'll just ask the holy spirit.

When I ask, the holy spirit usually just gets to the point and gives me a 'yes' or 'no' depending on the circumstance at hand. It hasn't always been that way for me, its been that way since I've gotten more into the word. So I should just keep trusting and believing.

And I know its the holy spirit and not anything else because the holy spirit doesn't give excuses and reasons, just answers.

Thanks, what I really wanted was the scriptures so that I knew where to look.

[seekingtruth]

Welcome,
I agree with TK and Irene, for the most part. When I was first saved I spent the first year studying the Bible as I knew very little about it and did not trust churches. This allowed me to determine what the scriptures taught, then using what I understood at the time I choose a church closest to what I had come to believe. It was there that I came to be taught man's traditions as God's doctrine but I assumed since smarter people then me had determined it, it must be so and for 20 years I struggled with inconsistencies between what I was taught and what I read. Finally God gave me a revelation which was so supported by scripture I could not argue and I accepted that we must seek for truth for ourselves and not trust anyone to think for us.

With that said, I do believe we should listen to others and the scriptures they offer (or notice the lack of scriptures) then compare it to the whole of scripture (you can teach what ever you want out of the Bible by taking it out of context). Paul said “follow me as I follow Christ”, continually study God's word it won't all make sense at first but God is patient to all who earnestly search for truth.

May the Father give you wisdom – Wm

[RokkaMan]

Beloved, I agree with the rest as far as follow your own truth…If you honestly are seeking truth….ask and you shall received.

On a side note I would like to point out…Jesus and The New Testament stood for salvation….

A lot of people confuse salvation with earthly blessings…they believe if they don't pay tithes they will go to hell…

Tithes don't constitute whether you go to heaven or hell, neither does a lot of bible laws….

Why?

Because we are no longer under those covenants.

Since we are in the covenant of love, those commandments are the only ones that will grant you your salvation….

I strongly believe following old testament laws will only grant you blessings in life if it is an act of obedience.

I mean there are places in the OT where people are told to condemn and stone others for certain sins…but we do not abstain seeing as how we are under a different law.

So bottom line, I believe if you pay tithes God will bless you in supernatural ways…but it is no longer required as an act of obedience that will grant you salvation.

I believe the same goes for eating pork and seafood…It may have been a law to seperate Jews from the pagan world (who did eat these unclean animals)…

But under a new covenant that is a covenant for mankind and not just Jews…all unclean things are considered clean, to the righteous.

Don;t forget, people didn't have the holy spirit…pre christ…we as new covenant children of God…do.

So with that we have the “strength” to overcome any kind of adverse effect unclean foods can cause. Plus with the Holy Spirit our judgement would be different than one who has never experienced God…so to us, I believe we can nullify a lot of the OT scripture do the the fact that, “God is no longer just on paper, he now lives in us…teaching and guiding us”.

So I guess this leads right back to what everyone else is saying…trust the voice inside of you.

[NickHassan]

Hi CON,
We do not search for new external laws when we are given freedom in the Spirit.
You either follow the Spirit or the external laws.

[NickHassan]

Hi CON,
Legal dietary restrictions are nothing to do with fasting which is restricted eating of all things for a period of time.
I hope you will grasp the freedom you inherit in Christ and do not continue to search for laws to give you comfort.

[georg]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 04 2009,03:42)

Hi CON, Legal dietary restrictions are nothing to do with fasting which is restricted eating of all things for a period of time. I hope you will grasp the freedom you inherit in Christ and do not continue to search for laws to give you comfort.

On top of that if you want to keep the Old Testament Law in Galatians it says that you have to keep the whole Law. You have to become like the Jewish People. That CON is not easy to do, if you realize that I have no idea.
Irene

[NickHassan]

Hi CON,
Romans 14 discusses these things.
The dietary matters were given to carnal men helping them work towards sanctification.
But is you are of the Spirit is it now the Spirit that sanctifies and we cannot do anything useful to help the work of God's Spirit but can only obstruct.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Beloved @ Nov. 03 2009,19:03)

Just for a bit of background, I used to be agnostic and I just became a Christian this year. So a lot about being a Christian is new to me. I've never even read the bible before January 2009. Even so, I'd always believed in my heart that there is a God. Studying the human body actually strengthened my belief that there is a God Almighty. I just didn't want to be tied down to any religion made by man. [This is the difference between agnostics and atheists. Agnostics do believe in a higher power, where atheists do not.] To me, every religion seemed to say the same thing to me, “WE ARE RIGHT! And if you don't believe us then you will suffer in one way or another!” Whether it be bad karma, suffering in the next life, or [the most popular] going to hell. Anyway, I was reading the bible and came across scriptures in Deuteronomy 14 about God saying what animals we can and can't eat. And I have to say, it's really confusing scripture! [But I did find out that the word 'coney' means ' rock badger'.] I really want to understand God's word. I've asked God for clarity and the response that came to me [which answered many questions I had as a new believer] was this very website! 8) So I thought I mine as well use the forums to try to gain understanding. I actually have 3 questions instead of one. And these are for anyone who can answer them and give me scripture to see for myself.  1.) Even though God tells us we can eat meat, can we eat pork and sea creatures without fins and scales? 2.) When Jesus gave us the new commandments, [as he said, he came to fulfill the old ones] by fulfilling them did he negate the old commandments for the rest of us? Another way of asking this would be; Did Jesus make it so the laws of the Old Testament don't apply to us anymore and we just have to follow the New Testament and the laws of Love? – I ask this for the sake of seafood. Because if Jesus negated the old laws, that means I can have some shrimp scampi for dinner. As long as I have love in my heart for God, Jesus, and everyone else [thy neighbor]. 3.) Where in the Bible does it EVER mention fasting and that we have to fast? – For one, I can't find it. Secondly, 1 month after I became a Christian, my pastor declared the church [the people], to have a 1 month fast by eating vegetables and berries and drinking water only. I participated in the fast because I thought it was what I was supposed to do to show appreciation to God. I have hypoglycemia to the point where it will literally cause me to drop dead if I don't maintain the right eating habits. I have a strict diet given to me by both my endocrinologist and nutritionist. Doing the fast with the church took me off my diet and I got sick and lost a LOT of weight.   I will admit, I did the fast out of a feeling of obligation [everyone else in my immediate family was doing it] moreso than to sacrifice something from my daily life for God. My mother stopped making meals with meat, etc. Basically, I had no choice but to follow the fast since that was the ONLY food prepared at home and my original diet discourages me from fast food and unhealthy foods found in your local grocery store. But honestly, I can't find a scripture that says we have to even fast at all. I did the fast as a new believer who knew next to nothing about Christ or the bible. I hope somebody can help me out. I do eat pork, but rarely. To be precise, I eat pork about once or twice a month. I really like seafood and if it turns out that I can in fact eat it, then I will continue to. What confused me was that I found a scripture way after Deuteronomy that says something along the lines of “Who are you to judge the animals I made to be unclean? Everything I made and comes from me is good.” I know the reason people choose to not eat pork is because it is believed to be unclean by many. I ask that somebody bring me some clarity in all 3 questions that I have.

The key here to literally answer your question is to simply understand “covenant” God makes many covenants throughout the bible some are for all mankind and some for a person or a group of people. The covenant in genesis 9 was made with all humanity and answers your question literally it is the noahic covenant.

Genesis 9
1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

The Jews were given another covenant

but in acts it shows that the noahic laws apply to everyone

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:19-21

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Acts 15:28-30

The restrictions given to the Jews were not particularly given for any reason except that they may learn obedience and discipline
————————————————-
In his book “To Be a Jew” (an excellent resource on traditional Judaism), Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin suggests that the dietary laws are designed as a call to holiness. The ability to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil, pure and defiled, the sacred and the profane, is very important in Judaism. Imposing rules on what you can and cannot eat ingrains that kind of self control, requiring us to learn to control even our most basic, primal instincts.

http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm
—————————————————–

This is proven by Jesus who explains:

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Matthew 15:10-12

Jesus said this to show the point of such restrictions were to cleanse the heart.

The fact is prophets(with God's authority) often would forbid something that was permitted or permit something that was previously forbidden.

The covenant with Adam provided only fruit when he was disobedient he was told that now he was to eat from his own toil

Genesis 3

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Now this is key in understanding because after this Noah was prophesied to come and make life easier by releasing that dietary restriction:

Genesis 5:28-30 (King James Version)

28And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and be
gat a son:

29And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

And as we see Noah had no food restrictions except that of eating living animals or drinking their blood.

Remember in the desert Israel was very disobedient and ungrateful so very severe restrictions were placed upon them.

I hope this has answered your questions. So the point is what agreement did you make with God? If God forbids something to you by some means He will inform you.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You are governed by external laws of many kinds in Islam and cannot know the freedom the Spirit brings.

[Author]

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