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Quote (sandra @ Mar. 31 2006,00:06) david,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
When you see all this discussion around 1 John 5:7, not actually being in the original scriptures, doesn't it make you wonder, what else has been added, or taken away? For example, the protestants say the Catholics added the Apocrypha, the Catholics say the protestants took them away. The Mormons have a completely different text and so do the Jehovah Witnesses. Well, it sure makes you study so that you know what it is that you believe in, and are able to answer, when able.
My daughter told me her Pastor told her that the Apocrypha was added, is this true? Quess I'm getting off topic if, you could point me to where I could find the answers, that would be great.
Exactly Sandra,I wondered the same thing, if 1 John 5:7 was added, then what else was added?
Woutlaw
Am I a oneness believer?
If you mean do I believe in one God – Yes
If you mean do I believe Jesus Christ the Son of God is God – no
I believe Jesus is the Son of God.ok just checking Malcolm,
I attended a United Pentecostal Church and studied with them for a couple of months. The language you used sounded like Oneness.
The Oneness doctrine is quite crafty, I bought it for a while until I stopped picking and choosing scriptures and started letting the word speak to me.
Quote (Woutlaw @ April 01 2006,01:06) Quote (sandra @ Mar. 31 2006,00:06) Quote (david @ Mar. 22 2006,21:14)
When you see all this discussion around 1 John 5:7, not actually being in the original scriptures, doesn't it make you wonder, what else has been added, or taken away? For example, the protestants say the Catholics added the Apocrypha, the Catholics say the protestants took them away. The Mormons have a completely different text and so do the Jehovah Witnesses. Well, it sure makes you study so that you know what it is that you believe in, and are able to answer, when able.
My daughter told me her Pastor told her that the Apocrypha was added, is this true? Quess I'm getting off topic if, you could point me to where I could find the answers, that would be great.
Exactly Sandra,I wondered the same thing, if 1 John 5:7 was added, then what else was added?
Hi Woutlaw,
Have you done an internet search on Matt 28.19?yes sir Nick,
I've done some research on the passage. Eusubius a bishop from Caesarea wrote a book called Evangelica Perfecta. He had a library with what was believed to be the original book of Matthew or a direct copy. He along with other eye witnesses testified that Matthew 28:19 didn't say “Baptizing them in the name of he Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”. Now the book “Evangelica Perfecta” dates back to the 3rd century I believe. I've also read an article where Joseph Ratzsinger (Now the Pope) admitted that the baptismal formula was changed. But you really don't have to do research
to see the error. Jesus said, “All authority in heaven and earth has been given unto me”. If he as all authority, which I believe he did because God gave it to him, then to baptize in his name would suffice!!Woutlaw, and all…….The Book of Acts makes it pretty clear the correct thing is to baptize “in the name of Jesus.” In fact, if one makes the false assumption that Matthew 28:19 is a valid verse, then there is a direct contradiction between that verse and the entire Book of Acts.
Matthew 28:19 and 1st John 5:7, among other verses were deliberately changed by the Roman Church in the late 3rd/early 4th century manuscripts. [Let's not forget it was the ROMAN CHURCH that WROTE all those 4th century manuscripts everyone likes to assume are the VALID basis for our modern texts….unfortunately the manuscripts are flawed in that they were deliberately rewritten to support the newly emerging “trinity” doctrine.]
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Acts 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Acts 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
To do something in someone's name was to do it in their authority. They had the authority to baptise, they had the authority to command spirits, they had the authority to preach, they had the authority to heal – this authority they received from Yahshua.
Amen.
Would it not be great if this truth was grasped again by sincere searchers who want to follow Christ?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2006,05:41) Amen.
Would it not be great if this truth was grasped again by sincere searchers who want to follow Christ?
Nick/Ramblin Rose……Good stuff!!!!!
“Christianity” is busily shooting itself in the foot, and very few who sit in the pews today are at all interested in “truth,” whatever it may be. I have seen surveys taken by the churches themselves that show that among the MINISTERS up to 85% do not even believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ.
The vast majority of those calling themselves “Christians” these days are doing nothing more than attending the Sunday country club of their choice, and haven't a clue regarding the history of their own particular “church,” the history of Christianity in general, the history of the Bible and Biblical text….they are simply “fitting in” where they feel most comfortable. “Truth” these days means very little. Perhaps that is why only a “remnant” will be saved.
If only “true Biblical Christians” were permitted to enter those buildings called “churches,” church membership would drop by 90% overnight! Go to ANY medium size church, count the number of people there on SUNDAY…..now go back and count the number of people there WEDNESDAY NIGHT for Bible Study. 'Nuff said!!!
Hi Malcolm,
You have quoted the false rendition of this verse from the KJV, written into scripture from a comment found in the margin of a manuscript.ps You also quoted the verse in Matt 28.19 which is also under some controversy since Bishop Eusebius wrote was in a different form;
“Baptise in My name”
in Matthew's original gospel of which he is said to have held a copy in his library about 200ad.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2006,10:36) Hi Malcolm,
You have quoted the false rendition of this verse from the KJV, written into scripture from a comment found in the margin of a manuscript.
Hi Malcolm,
Why do you prefer KJV?
Why do you quote the false rendition of 1Jn5.7?One of the problems with the evil substituted false rendition of the earliest and latest KJV versions is the loss of the vital true rendition. These verses are crucial regarding testimony of our salvation being written in heaven.
NASB
1Jn 5.5f
'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes Jesus is the Son of God?
This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify;
The Spirit and
The Water and
The Blood
And the three are in agreement”So the witnesses to the fact of Jesus, the Son of God , being the Messiah are:
The Spirit-the Word written by the Spirit through men that foretold the coming, the ministry and the sacrificial death of Jesus.
The Water-Jesus was baptised by John to fulfill God's final righteous demands under the Old Covenant.
The Blood-The seal of the new Covenant as shown by Jesus at the Last supper the shedding of which tore the temple curtain to open new access to God in him.
We too, after repentance, must be born again of water and the Spirit being baptised into the death of Jesus. We must believe Jesus IS the Son of God to overcome the world.
Hi truebelief4u,
Quote If only “true Biblical Christians” were permitted to enter those buildings called “churches,” church membership would drop by 90% overnight! Go to ANY medium size church, count the number of people there on SUNDAY…..now go back and count the number of people there WEDNESDAY NIGHT for Bible Study. 'Nuff said!!! Ok, I counted Sunday and Wednesday. Actually, someone else did the counting. There is a drop of a few percent. I believe it's in the 5% range. Actually, one reason for this may be because on Sunday, it's more of a public meeting, well, actually, it's called our “public meeting,” followed by a study article in the Watchtower, the “watchtower study.” So we have more new ones who may make up a couple percent of the drop on Wednesday.
david.
I took some time to look through the NWT yet was confused on how JW's deny the Trinity when their own translation says its true. Explain these passages(which i have read in context) from the NWT for me if ya can;
1 Tomothy 3:16
Isaiah 9:6- how can Christ be the Eternal Father, if He is created? eternity is without beginning or end.
Hebrews 13:8
John 20:28
Phillipians 2:6
1 Timothy 6:14-16
Hebrews 1:2-3
Titus 2:13
2 Peter 1:1and many more. but here are a few. Chew on these and get back to me.
Hi OOTLG<
It is not a matter of combing the bible few a few different verses that may suggest to those with such a predeliction that that Jesus is his own Father. Commonsense does apply. He is the Son of that God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2006,20:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2006,10:36) Hi Malcolm,
You have quoted the false rendition of this verse from the KJV, written into scripture from a comment found in the margin of a manuscript.
Hi Malcolm,
Why do you prefer KJV?
Why do you quote the false rendition of 1Jn5.7?One of the problems with the evil substituted false rendition of the earliest and latest KJV versions is the loss of the vital true rendition. These verses are crucial regarding testimony of our salvation being written in heaven.
NASB
1Jn 5.5f
'Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes Jesus is the Son of God?
This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify;
The Spirit and
The Water and
The Blood
And the three are in agreement”So the witnesses to the fact of Jesus, the Son of God , being the Messiah are:
The Spirit-the Word written by the Spirit through men that foretold the coming, the ministry and the sacrificial death of Jesus.
The Water-Jesus was baptised by John to fulfill God's final righteous demands under the Old Covenant.
The Blood-The seal of the new Covenant as shown by Jesus at the Last supper the shedding of which tore the temple curtain to open new access to God in him.
We too, after repentance, must be born again of water and the Spirit being baptised into the death of Jesus. We must believe Jesus IS the Son of God to overcome the world.
Hi Nick1 John 5:6-8
6 This is he who came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit testifies that that very Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three to bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.
(Lamsa-Peshitta version taken from the Aramaic)Matt 28:18-19
18 And Jesus came up and spoke with them, and said to them, All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Just as my Father has sent me I am also sending you. 19 Go, therefore, and convert all nations; and baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit;
(Lamsa-Peshitta version taken from the Aramaic)I find it rather interesting that Dr Lamsa a Jewish scholar who translated the bible using the Aramaic saw fit to render these verses as virtually identical to the KJV.
I do not believe the trinity doctrine is sound doctrine. I believe that those who created it did not do so to explain God, but to include Mary.
I do not believe that Jesus is God the Father, but I do believe that God made him God the Son, giving him all the authority and indwelling of the Godhead through the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Do I believe the Son always has been? All I know is what the Father has told us through scripture and it says the Son was begotten of the Father. This is where so many struggle. If you look up the word begat, it says to bring into existance. If there was no son, the Father would of plainly said so and if the Son was not begotten of the Father, the Father would have plainly said so. God is not a God of confusion. If God himself came to us in the flesh and not his Son, would he not have plainly said so?
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