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Nick and t8,
Sorry, you misunderstood me. I did not say that Adam and Eve went to heaven. I was just making a point that if they did not sin, they would still be here on earth. They did not go to heaven. They returned to dust. They were no more. They died. God's initial plan was to fill the earth. And also – I do not think that Elijah, Moses, or Enoch went to heaven. John 3:13 says that no one went to heaven before Jesus Christ. Aslo Matthew 11:11.
And I totally agree that the Kingdom of Heaven will rule OVER the earth FROM heaven. Heaven is not a place on earth. The heaven is in heaven, but the paradise will be on earth. That was my point. Jesus Christ and his co-rulers will rule as great spiritual beings from heaven over the earth for 1000 years until everything that Satan damaged is restored.
I hope this clears up some things!
Hi human,
Thank you.You did not address the question of Elijah.
2Kings 2 11
“…And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven. Elisha saw it..”
This seems plain and it was witnessed by a reliable witness as well as the Word of God. If you say he did not go to heaven then where did he go? He did not die as that is not recorded.Jn 3.13
” No one has ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN, but he who descended from heaven;the Son of Man.”How do you find reconciliation between these two scriptures?
An interesting article for the subject at hand.
http://www.intergate.com/%7Ejcordaro/enoch,eliyah,moses.html
Nick,
I think we have double information here and in the topic “The Dead in Christ”. I have explained some of my views in that topic.
Also Ramblinrose's link makes some good points, although I do not agree with the claim that the paradise is the third heaven. But that is another topic.I offer my view regarding the ascension in the “The Dead in Christ” discussion.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….try4886Quote (Human @ Mar. 16 2005,08:01) And I totally agree that the Kingdom of Heaven will rule OVER the earth FROM heaven. Heaven is not a place on earth. The heaven is in heaven, but the paradise will be on earth. That was my point. Jesus Christ and his co-rulers will rule as great spiritual beings from heaven over the earth for 1000 years until everything that Satan damaged is restored.
Human …
the Kingdom of Heaven is or rather will be Paradise on earth;
i.e. the Kingdom of Heaven AKA the Kingdom of GOD AKA Paradise …
they are all synonymous terms describing the same thing …
when GOD sends the Messiah to establish His Kingdom here on planet Earth.Hence, no one is going to Heaven.
Solely one human went to Heaven, and that is, Jesus the Messiah, the firstborn of all the immortalized human beings who will reign with him upon the earth [Rev 5.9-10] when he returns.Christ was dead and GOD raised him and gave him immortality; he will never die again.
And at his return, the righteous dead will be raised and immortalized.
It is THEN that the malefactor's request will finally be fulfilled .. that is, … (Luke 23:42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. …
(Luke 23:43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.Right now, the malefactor as well as all the OT saints and the dead in Christ, are sleeping the sleep of dead [Psa 13.3] in the dust of the earth [Dan 12.2], awaiting the resurrection, whereby they ALL will be awaken IN the Kingdom of GOD AKA Paradise. [Lk 13.28-29]
Just thought I should point this out …
Hi Adam Pastor,
I see the shifting of the comma in the words of Yeshua to the thief. Is this not a jot or tittle that should not be altered? Is there any scriptural evidence it was put in the wrong place or why is it shifted?The disciples were told “the Kingdom of God is among you” so the kingdom really began at the first visit of the Son of God to earth. He was King then though few recognised the fact.
The return of Yeshua as King and the fullness of the Kingdom is different only in that Yeshua takes total control of earth and rules all men from Jerusalem. Do you agree?
Hi Adam Pastor,
Of course Yeshua was not just an 'immortalised human being'.He was the Son of God who “descended from heaven”as well as ascending back to where he came from.
Hi liljon,
The body dies and rots away but the soul sleeps. Is this what you meant? If the tent fades way and we sleep then, of course, we can be woken.
Just because some woke prematurely at the Resurrection of Jesus does not mean, of course, that THE resurrection has taken place as confirmed in 2 Tim.
There are always exceptions which legalists[not including yourself] can never grasp.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 16 2005,19:23) Hi Adam Pastor,
I see the shifting of the comma in the words of Yeshua to the thief. Is this not a jot or tittle that should not be altered? Is there any scriptural evidence it was put in the wrong place or why is it shifted?The disciples were told “the Kingdom of God is among you” so the kingdom really began at the first visit of the Son of God to earth. He was King then though few recognised the fact.
The return of Yeshua as King and the fullness of the Kingdom is different only in that Yeshua takes total control of earth and rules all men from Jerusalem. Do you agree?
1) Besides the most obvious fact that there were no commas and punctuation when the Greek scriptures were written; there is however, actual evidence that later Mss. had punctuation after the word 'today'. (That is something you can research for yourself)Anyways, neither Jesus or the malefactor went to Heaven the day they were crucified. They both died hence they both slept in Sheol/Hades. Jesus for 3 days [Mat 12.40, Acts 2:22,27,31-32;], whilst the malefactor is still asleep awaiting the resurrection. So it should be obvious to all who adhere to the scriptural doctrine of the sleep of the dead that Christ was affirming & promising the malefactor THAT DAY, that he would be in his future Kingdom i.e. in Paradise; at his resurrection.
2) The disciples were not told that the Kingdom of GOD was among them. It was the unbelieving Pharisees who were told this … So …
… one must read Luke 17:20-21 in context! Who was Jesus speaking to? Disbelieving Pharisees! What did Jesus actually say? The Greek text actually means The Kingdom of GOD is in your midst (or among you Pharisees)In other words, Jesus being the King and the Ultimate Representative of GOD's Kingdom, was in their midst; seeing that he represented the Kingdom and by the power of GOD's Spirit, was demonstrating its power (i.e. the miracles that he performed); he being in their midst was as good as the Kingdom itself being in their midst. This is what Jesus was stating in Luke 17:20-21. Hence, how could they be looking for the Kingdom by observation, when they wouldn't even receive its King who was in their very midst!
Compare: (Mat 12:28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Hence, in Jesus demonstrating the Kingdom's power; in that sense, the Kingdom was already in their midst, already among them! However, the Kingdom coming in its full reality will not be until the Second Coming of Our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ.
Here are a couple of quotes to back up my points concerning Luke 17:21:
Quote (“For Christ's Sake p.68”)
“Christians have very mixed-up notions of what is meant by the Kingdom of God. The prevailing opinion is that it is a state or condition which the believer experiences, both individually and in the corporate life of the Church as the body of Christ. Here Christ's reign is realized. But in only one passage in the Gospels – and there by a mistranslation of the Greek text – is the Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven represented as something internal. Yet so enthusiastic has the Church been to evade the consequences of regarding Jesus as the Messiah that it has singled out as of special merit the words “the Kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21). Everywhere else in the Synoptic Gospels, in Luke as in Matthew and Mark, the Kingdom of God is a state of affairs on earth, the coming of which is to be prayed for, which Jews should seek after, strive to be worthy of and thus be able to enter into and which is described as near at hand. It is equated with the time when the Messianic Age will commence.“Another writer states:
Quote
Luke, only, records an episode in which Jesus says that the Kingdom is already “in your midst” (Luke 17:21). To take this single passage to mean that the Kingdom has now fully arrived and has no future reality is not only to contradict the rest of the New Testament but to make Luke ludicrously inconsistent; for only a few verses later he is describing the Coming of Christ in terms of lightening flashing from east to west, and he later defines this spectacular and universally visible event as the coming of the Kingdom of God (Luke 21:31). It is clear that the Kingdom is present among the people in the special sense that the King Himself is present, though unrecognized by the Pharisees. There was little point in their looking for a world-wide manifestation of the Kingdom, when they had failed to recognize the King.3) Therefore, the Kingdom is still yet to come.
Hence, Christ taught us to pray …
THY KINGDOM COMEHi Adam Pastor,
Good points on the Kingdom. Thank you.
We know Yeshua died [Acts 3.15] but scripture does not say specifically he slept in Sheol. He spent 3 days and three nights in the heart of the earth [Mt 12.40]where Sheol is, and we are he was not abandoned to Hades[Acts 2 27].
Not quite the same thing.
As you know some see 1 Peter 3 18f as saying Yeshua was busy making proclamation to spirits in prison after he died “in the flesh” and he was “made alive in the Spirit” and before he went”into heaven” at his ascension. However the timing of this visit is not also clearly defined.Hi Adam Pastor,
As far as the “outer man” goes Yeshua was exactly like us. He called himself Son of Man and because he was man is why he will judge man. He is described as a Man in the Word in 1 Tim 2.5, Acts 2.22, Acts 17.31.But as far as the “inner man” he was vastly different. He is and was and will be forever the Son of God. Do you agree?
Hi,
This verse was classically altered by trinitarian bias in the KJV to read
“and there are three in heaven, the Father, Son and Spirit.” Later versions have corrected this error.Quote (Peggy @ Dec. 28 2003,03:36) I greatly fear that the spirit of anti-christ has found it's way into your writings. I pray this is not so but any spirit that denies the diety of Jesus Christ is anti-christ. You are damning yourself with this erroneous doctrine. Do not be deceived. You cannot be saved if you deny the diety of Jesus the Messiah because his is the only name by which we can be saved. He and the Father are One…you can't have one without the other. If you deny Jesus, the Father will deny you. I have some verses in response to your position on Jesus' Christ not being God:
1) John 1:1-2 (1)”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. (14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
2) I John 5: 7 (7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, The Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
In His Service,
hi Peggy.. if you are still around, just to let you know, t8 is offering a very skewed perspective of the actual situation in regard to the absence of the definite article…. in particular I am referring to his saying “yet even Trinitarian scholars admit that it doesn't say that the Word is God the person. The reason is that the last word 'God' has no article and articles are used in Greek to define people.”his is a very common “argument” found among the JW's, and has, thankfully, been responded to in great depth and convincingly so…. so to give a little more balance to the resources you have been offered, I would encourage you to see
http://aomin.org/GERM_JWS.html
http://aomin.org/JOHN1_1.htmlOne writer states “The first point Jehovah Witnesses often make on this verse is that in the Greek there is no definite article before the word “theos.” (“Theos” is the Greek word that we translate as “God” or “god” in English.) This is a particularly weak argument that takes little study to address. John uses the word “Theos” some 252 times in his writings. Twenty-two of these times it occurs without a definite article. In every place outside of John 1:1 and John 1:18 where the singular form of the word is used (whether it is with or without the article), John uses it to reference the one true God. There are no exceptions, (http://www.truthsaves.org/john.shtml)
antoher Greek scholar writes “Or “and what God was the Word was.” Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of qeov” (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb. A definite meaning for the term is reflected in the traditional rendering “the word was God.” From a technical standpoint, though, it is preferable to see a qualitative aspect to anarthrous qeov” in John 1:1c (ExSyn 266-69). Translations like the NEB, REB, and Moffatt are helpful in capturing the sense in John 1:1c, that the Word was fully deity in essence (just as much God as God the Father). However, in contemporary English “the Word was divine” (Moffatt) does not quite catch the meaning since “divine” as a descriptive term is not used in contemporary English exclusively of God. The translation “what God was the Word was” is perhaps the most nuanced rendering, conveying that everything God was in essence, the Word was too. This points to unity of essence between the Father and the Son without equating the persons. However, in surveying a number of native speakers of English, some of whom had formal theological training and some of whom did not, the editors concluded that the fine distinctions indicated by “what God was the Word was” would not be understood by many contemporary readers. Thus the translation “the Word was fully God” was chosen because it is more likely to convey the meaning to the average English reader that the Logos (which “became flesh and took up residence among us” in John 1:14 and is thereafter identified in the Fourth Gospel as Jesus) is one in essence with God the Father. The previous phrase, “the Word was with God,” shows that the Logos is distinct in person from God the Father.”
also see
http://www.souldevice.org/jw_jn1.htmlanother Greek scholar, Weust, translates the verse in a way that indicates he clearly believes it to be teaching that Jesus and the Father are both God, “John 1: 1 – 3
In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity. This Word was in the beginning in fellowship with God the Father. All things through His intermediate agency came into being, and without Him there came into being not even one thing which has come into existence.”well examples likw this could go on and on, I trust these have helped to continue to establish your faith….
blessings Peggy
Hi E,
The God that was with God is not that God he was with.
Now please also can you be consistent.
You say the Word was fully God so you say there are two deities. So are there two deities in one God now or two Gods? I thought you say they are two persons in one God not two individual deities in one God? So is the Son part of a trinity God or a separate deity?
Now you say both are Gods to be worshipped as equals?
Trinity theory says in fact there are three equal coeternal persons in one God. So is the Holy Spirit also an individual deity to be worshipped? Why did the Spirit then not get a mention in the verse from John? Is the deity of the Spirit a lesser one in your view?
The Spirit does not seem to be mentioned in this way as an individual deity in the Word. Neither are there any verses that even hint that the Spirit is to be worshipped are there?
Hello. Where is the equality in all this or do we have to take it all on faith?
Confusion reigns!!
Sorry but adding that we cannot understand God and that some things are mysterious will not wash.
This is pure eyewash.
“God is not a God of confusion but of peace”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2005,10:11) Hi E, The God that was with God is not that God he was with.
Now please also can you be consistent.
You say the Word was fully God so you say there are two deities. So are there two deities in one God now or two Gods? I thought you say they are two persons in one God not two individual deities in one God? So is the Son part of a trinity God or a separate deity?
Now you say both are Gods to be worshipped as equals?
Trinity theory says in fact there are three equal coeternal persons in one God. So is the Holy Spirit also an individual deity to be worshipped? Why did the Spirit then not get a mention in the verse from John? Is the deity of the Spirit a lesser one in your view?
The Spirit does not seem to be mentioned in this way as an individual deity in the Word. Neither are there any verses that even hint that the Spirit is to be worshipped are there?
Hello. Where is the equality in all this or do we have to take it all on faith?
Confusion reigns!!
Sorry but adding that we cannot understand God and that some things are mysterious will not wash.
This is pure eyewash.
“God is not a God of confusion but of peace”
lol… aww now Nick.. you know sometimes I have to marvel at your continual misrepresentation of trinitarianism… I mean, disagree… fine… great… but could you at least have the decency to accurately relate what trinitarians believe? you know full well that our belief is that there are not 2 gods, but rather one God in 3 persons…. and its not that difficult to understand really… that is, that this is the belief… I am not referring to the “how” this can be so, because when we attempt to break beliefs down in ways that move towards bare basic level metaphysical relationships and the great problems of unity and diversity in the universe(s) we have to admit ignorance on enourmous scales as to the “how” most things can be…. we just do know that much really, thats what it comes down to….. and so when the Bible says things of the Son that can only be also true of God the Father, I have to be faithful to the Bible Nick, and not raise my human intellect above the revelation given us by God, and say in all my human pride “I cannot understand it, therefore it cannot be true”… no… I bow both my mind and spirit before God and accept on faith that things are the way He says they are, not the way I say…..so, to reply specifically to “The God that was with God is not that God he was with.”
I have to say that once again, you are equivocating… this time on the word “God”… so its one God… ok? got that? don't read further until you understand this Nick… one God… in 3 persons… so there is no such belief as God being with another God… that is consistent, there is no inconsistency anywhere….you say ” You say the Word was fully God so you say there are two deities.”
No I don't… YOU keep saying that…
I say there is one deityyou ask “So are there two deities in one God now or two Gods? “
one God Nick… just one…. and this God is triune, the Bible reveals God as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit…
elementary really….you say “I thought you say they are two persons in one God not two individual deities in one God?”
nope, never said this, don't put words in my mouth, don't create straw man arguments… you know Nick… the same things that have told you numerous times… but hey, if you can't refute the trinitarian position biblically, perhaps this is your last resort…. misrepresenting etc… and I know resorts can be very nice places to be Nick, but at some point you are going to have to go home… get back to reality and face the actual beliefs that trinitarians have.. and again.. go ahead disagree… in a sense I could care less about that… you are going to believe what ever it is you are convinced of… but Nick, I am not going to stoop to misrepresenting you just because I disagree with you…. I just wish you would stop creating these flimsy caricatures… if you think about it… its really a sin to do that Nick… its lying…lastly you ask “So is the Son part of a trinity God or a separate deity?”
the great collection of ministers of God's word who came together to produce Westminster said it like this…Q7: What is God?
A7: God is a Spirit,[1] in and of himself infinite in being,[2] glory,[3] blessedness,[4] and perfection;[5] all-sufficient,[6] eternal,[7] unchangeable,[8] incomprehensible,[9] everywhere present,[10] almighty,[11] knowing all things,[12] most wise,[13] most holy,[14] most just,[15] most merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth.[16]1. John 4:24
2. Exod. 3:14; Job 11:7-9
3. Acts 7:2
4. I Tim. 6:15
5. Matt. 5:48
6. Gen. 17:1
7. Psa. 90:2
8. Mal. 3:6; James 1:17
9. I Kings 8:27
10. Psa. 139:1-13
11. Rev. 4:8
12. Heb. 4:13; Psa 147:5
13. Rom. 16:27
14. Isa. 6:3; Rev. 15:4
15. Deut. 32:4
16. Exod. 34:6Q8: Are there more Gods than one?
A8: There is but one only, the living and true God.[1]
1. Deut. 6:4; I Cor. 8:4, 6; Jer. 10:10
Q9: How many persons are there in the Godhead?
A9: There be three persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one true, eternal God, the same in substance, equal in power and glory; although distinguished by their personal properties.[1]1. I John 5:7; Matt. 3:16-17; 28:19; II Cor. 13:14; John 10:30
Q10: What are the personal properties of the three persons in the Godhead?
A10: It is proper to the Father to beget the Son,[1] and to the Son to be begotten of the Father,[2] and to the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Father and the Son from all eternity.[3]1. Heb. 1:5-6, 8
2. John 1:14, 18
3. John 15:26; Gal. 4:6Q11: How doth it appear that the Son and the Holy Ghost are God equal with the Father?
A11: The scriptures manifest that the Son and the Holy Ghost are God equal with the Father, ascribing unto them such names,[1] attributes,[2] works,[3] and worship,[4] as are proper to God only.1. Isa. 6:3, 5, 8; John 12:41; Acts 5:3-4; 28:25; I John 5:20
2. John 1:1; 2:24-25; Isa. 9:6; I Cor. 2:10-11
3. Col. 1:16; Gen. 1:2
4. Matt. 28:19; II Cor. 13:14Hi E,
You say”there is no such belief as God being with another God”Jn 1.1
“In the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning WITH God”I agree with this -do you?
Is the Word a separate divine being begotten from God or not?
Quote (epistemaniac @ July 05 2005,17:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2005,10:11) Hi E, The God that was with God is not that God he was with.
Now please also can you be consistent.
You say the Word was fully God so you say there are two deities. So are there two deities in one God now or two Gods? I thought you say they are two persons in one God not two individual deities in one God? So is the Son part of a trinity God or a separate deity?
Now you say both are Gods to be worshipped as equals?
Trinity theory says in fact there are three equal coeternal persons in one God. So is the Holy Spirit also an individual deity to be worshipped? Why did the Spirit then not get a mention in the verse from John? Is the deity of the Spirit a lesser one in your view?
The Spirit does not seem to be mentioned in this way as an individual deity in the Word. Neither are there any verses that even hint that the Spirit is to be worshipped are there?
Hello. Where is the equality in all this or do we have to take it all on faith?
Confusion reigns!!
Sorry but adding that we cannot understand God and that some things are mysterious will not wash.
This is pure eyewash.
“God is not a God of confusion but of peace”
lol… aww now Nick.. you know sometimes I have to marvel at your continual misrepresentation of trinitarianism… I mean, disagree… fine… great… but could you at least have the decency to accurately relate what trinitarians believe? you know full well that our belief is that there are not 2 gods, but rather one God in 3 persons…. and its not that difficult to understand really… that is, that this is the belief… I am not referring to the “how” this can be so, because when we attempt to break beliefs down in ways that move towards bare basic level metaphysical relationships and the great problems of unity and diversity in the universe(s) we have to admit ignorance on enourmous scales as to the “how” most things can be…. we just do know that much really, thats what it comes down to….. and so when the Bible says things of the Son that can only be also true of God the Father, I have to be faithful to the Bible Nick, and not raise my human intellect above the revelation given us by God, and say in all my human pride “I cannot understand it, therefore it cannot be true”… no… I bow both my mind and spirit before God and accept on faith that things are the way He says they are, not the way I say…..so, to reply specifically to “The God that was with God is not that God he was with.”
I have to say that once again, you are equivocating… this time on the word “God”… so its one God… ok? got that? don't read further until you understand this Nick… one God… in 3 persons… so there is no such belief as God being with another God… that is consistent, there is no inconsistency anywhere….you say ” You say the Word was fully God so you say there are two deities.”
No I don't… YOU keep saying that…
I say there is one deityyou ask “So are there two deities in one God now or two Gods? “
one God Nick… just one…. and this God is triune, the Bible reveals God as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit…
elementary really….you say “I thought you say they are two persons in one God not two individual deities in one God?”
nope, never said this, don't put words in my mouth, don't create straw man arguments… you know Nick… the same things that have told you numerous times… but hey, if you can't refute the trinitarian position biblically, perhaps this is your last resort…. misrepresenting etc… and I know resorts can be very nice places to be Nick, but at some point you are going to have to go home… get back to reality and face the actual beliefs that trinitarians have.. and again.. go ahead disagree… in a sense I could care less about that… you are going to believe what ever it is you are convinced of… but Nick, I am not going to stoop to misrepresenting you just because I disagree with you…. I just wish you would stop creating these flimsy caricatures… if you think about it… its really a sin to do that Nick… its lying…lastly you ask “So is the Son part of a trinity God or a separate deity?”
the great collection of ministers of God's word who came together to produce Westminster said it like this…Q7: What is God?
A7: God is a Spirit,[1] in and of himself infinite in being,[2] glory,[3] blessedness,[4] and perfection;[5] all-sufficient,[6] eternal,[7] unchangeable,[8] incomprehensible,[9] everywhere present,[10] almighty,[11] knowing all things,[12] most wise,[13] most holy,[14] most just,[15] most merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth.[16]1. John 4:24
2. Exod. 3:14; Job 11:7-9
3. Acts 7:2
4. I Tim. 6:15
5. Matt. 5:48
6. Gen. 17:1
7. Psa. 90:2
8. Mal. 3:6; James 1:17
9. I Kings 8:27
10. Psa. 139:1-13
11. Rev. 4:8
12. Heb. 4:13; Psa 147:5
13. Rom. 16:27
14. Isa. 6:3; Rev. 15:4
15. Deut. 32:4
16. Exod. 34:6Q8: Are there more Gods than one?
A8: There is but one only, the living and true God.[1]
1. Deut. 6:4; I Cor. 8:4, 6; Jer. 10:10
Q9: How many persons are there in the Godhead?
A9: There be three persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one true, eternal God, the same in substance, equal in power and glory; although distinguished by their personal properties.[1]1. I John 5:7; Matt. 3:16-17; 28:19; II Cor. 13:14; John 10:30
Q10: What are the personal properties of the three persons in the Godhead?
A10: It is proper to the Father to beget the Son,[1] and to the Son to be begotten of the Father,[2] and to the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Father and the Son from all eternity.[3]1. Heb. 1:5-6, 8
2. John 1:14, 18
3. John 15:26; Gal. 4:6Q11: How doth it appear that the Son and the Holy Ghost are God equal with the Father?
A11: The scriptures manifest that the Son and the Holy Ghost are God equal with the Father, ascribing unto them such names,[1] attributes,[2] works,[3] and worship,[4] as are proper to God only.1. Isa. 6:3, 5, 8; John 12:41; Acts 5:3-4; 28:25; I John 5:20
2. John 1:1; 2:24-25; Isa. 9:6; I Cor. 2:10-11
3. Col. 1:16; Gen. 1:2
4. Matt. 28:19; II Cor. 13:14
Hi E,
Are these bemused theologians your true masters? Is much truth found in their musings compared with the Word of God? I prefer the true ore don't you?
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