- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (jahman @ Sep. 17 2006,07:21) Is the verse truth? Whether added or not? If it is truth, that is the imperative, not the squabble of lesser spirits. These are only distractions from truth. Scripture is not a foundation that ought discourage building upon, only take heed on how it aleigns with scripture. In the end, the fire will reveal of what sort it is. If it is so, why carry on as if it were not so?
btw, the portion about adding or taking away from what is written in the book of Rev. Is subject to that book. If we were beholden only to say what is in the covers of The Book, we ought not need teachers, or the leading of the Holy Spirit into all truth..because we could as easily conclude that it is an addition. The spirit of the Lord is like a fountain of life, that springs up in liberty..not of judgmental sorts that want to entrap.
Hi jm,
Who decides then what is truth? We get many here who state they are anointed with the Spirit of truth yet rarely can two agree about anything so all cannot be right all the time.We need the bible to prove spiritual truth.
Jn 16
” 12″I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. “
The Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reveals to us the Word of God.Quote To date, there are absolutely no ancient Greek Mss (i.e. pre-7th cent) that contain 1 John 5.7. The reason why is because the greek used by Erasmus was older then that used afterward. It is for this reason the dispute.
Quote Is the verse truth? Whether added or not? If it is truth, that is the imperative, not the squabble of lesser spirits. These are only distractions from truth. Dear jahman,
I don't know if this came by way of the Holy Spirit or from reading my prior posts. It matters not, because both would be of the same spirit. And for you to know and believe this means the truth is in you.
They argue that the scripture is spurious. I believe it fits perfectly within the confines of God's Holy Word. For all truth comes from above. They argue that it should not be included, I believe that if it was not the will of the Father, it would not be included.
I am one who stands on the belief that the trinity doctrine is unsound and can be proven so by scripture. I also believe this verse to be truth. So let those who oppose the verse answer, is this verse true?
http://www.studytoanswer.net/bibleversions/1john5n7.html
Here is an article written in favor of heiscomingintheclouds position. It is not often I see someone defend the Johanine Comma so I posted it here.
H,
The debate over this verse is not whether the verse is a true statement.
The debate is whether it was an addition to the text. Did John write it?
If John did not write it then it is a textual corruption. Nobody has the right to add to word of God. No matter if the addition is a true statement or not.
I believe John did write it. And even if there was a way to prove me wrong, which there is not, the verse is truth. So if it is truth, would it not be likely that John did write it? Show me the proof that he did not.
More Proof that the KJ is the infallible Word of God
The argument here on this verse is not so much if the verse should or should not be included in scripture as it is the debate over the validity of the KING JAMES. Those who deny the KJ are the leading advocates for saying that this verse in spurious. If they can prove this one verse is spurious, it gives them peace of mind that the corrupt translation they stand on and hold dear is validated.
So what it comes down to is one translation being corrupt or many translations being corrupt. Which would be more likely. If the KJ is corrupt, that would make all corrupt, since the King James in part, was used in their translations. Yet, they will tell you that with each translation, man continues to better God's Word. And they are true, notice I said man is bettering God's Word. That is because they are changing it into the words of men. The further away one is from the light, the more he finds himself in darkness and the same applies to God's Word.
Hi H,
Once before you agreed that some editions are not correct as they omit the Johannine Comma. I know the first one or two did but then later ones omitted it and then the most recent have put it back in so surely you can clarify it for us so we know which ones are perfect and which ones corrupted?As I said before, it is those who are haters of the King James that use 1 John 5:7 as a way to try and prove that their translations are better. Yet, as I said, if the King James is corrupted, then all translations that used the King James to do their translations would be corrupt as well. And if I am not mistaken, all the translations that came after relied heavily on the King James in their translations.
You show me your translation and I will list the corruption in yours. I will give you the year and date of my King James, will approximate date and you can list all that is corrupt. Deal?
Hi H,
No we are only talking about the KJV here. It is not about carnal competition between versions. The Spirit reveals what is true from each version.Are there any manuscripts of the first seven centuries that have that verse?
Do we know when that verse first appeared?
Yes, it's in the KJV.
But is it in THE OLDEST manuscripts?
I'm only saying it is true when it comes to scripture interpreting scripture.
1. Does scripture bear record that the Father, the Word, and Holy Spirit are of heaven?
2. Does scripture bear record that these 3 agree in one?
If I was to ask these questions, what would your vote be?
One cannot even say that Jesus Christ (The Word) is Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinth 12:4-6
4) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. (Holy Spirit)
5)And there are differences of administration, but the same Lord. (Jesus Christ)
6) And there are diversities of operations, but the same God (Father) which works all in all.
All 3 are of heaven, all 3 are of the same Spirit. That's about all I need for assurance.
Hi,
God
has a Son
and filled him with His Spirit
and in Christ we too can be filled with that Spirit
so that God can be all
in all.Quote All 3 are of heaven, all 3 are of the same Spirit. That's about all I need for assurance. Dear jahman,
As I agree completely with your post and believe that all 3 are of the same Spirit, I also believe that they are not the same Spirit. For the Father is the Holy Spirit and he begat the Son in the beginning. For the Son is not greater then the Father and the Son answers to the Father. The Son is the perfect will of the Father.
I don't know you well enough to know your stand on this, for this is a forum where most believe the trinity doctrine is unsound. What is your stand on this? The reason why I asked is your words I have above in quote. As all three are of the same Spirit, to say that the Son is the Father would be the ways of the trinity believers. I am just curious as to your stand. If I were to ponder a guess, without going back and reading past posts, I would say you already know the trinity doctrine in unsound. Am I right?
Quote (david @ Sep. 18 2006,03:13) Are there any manuscripts of the first seven centuries that have that verse? Do we know when that verse first appeared?
Yes, it's in the KJV.
But is it in THE OLDEST manuscripts?
Dear David,
I believe the King James was translated from the oldest Holy Writs. The underlying greek is older then what was used in all newer translations. I posted an article that explains it in detail. But most will refuse to believe it, for to do so would mean they would have to give up their translations. I will repost it at the bottom of this post.
As I said before and let it be noted, the debate over 1 John 5:7 is more over the validity of translations then it is a single verse. Don't be fooled by those who try to use this debate to deter you from what is faithful and true. The King James is being used on this forum by some and it cuts false doctrines assunder, for it is a doubledged sword. It is exposing the doctrines of men.
Hi,
Some may find this site of interest.
http://www.bible.ca/b-kjv-only.htm#questions
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
