I John 5:7

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
Then why do you not say these things?
Leaving them unsaid when you make other statements can only lead to our curiosity.

Do you worship the Spirit?
Or does the Spirit of God help us worship God?

Rom 8.26f
“26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for (BB)we do not know how to pray as we should, but (BC)the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
27and (BD)He who searches the hearts knows what (BE)the mind of the Spirit is, because He (BF)intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”

[Oxy]

Sorry Nick, I just assumed that it was obvious.

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
It should be obvious that we worship our God, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, and Him alone. Sadly Satan has been successful at muddying the water for most men.

[Oxy]

Yep, I agree that we worship the Father. But how should we respond to Him who is King of kings and Lord of lords?

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
You should be in him as a branch is part of the vine.

[wind_slasher52]

bretheren let us open our minds that there is only ONE TRUE GOD.
in the father, the son and the holy ghost are just titles or offices that Jesus played, Jesus is the Father the son and the holyspirit, take note that this titles are not PERSONS. they are TITLES.

its like being us, sometimes we are called a son or daughter, somtimes your title i mean your job title and when you become old you will be called Grand parents…

But wil you consider Son, your job title and grand parents a name?
of course NOT.
they are titles only.
there is a certain name for all of them and the name is Jesus.

now let us remeber that God is a SPIRIT,
spirit has no Form,no size and shape.

there are many scriptures in the bible that states that there is only one God, from old testament to new testament,
jesus christ was the express image of the invincible God. when Jesus was still on this earth, he never taught about trinity he didnt say that there are more than 1 God, all he state that there is only one true God.

in st.John 10:30 says that “Me and the father are one”. here Jesuschrist clearly states that the father and him are one, they are not separate nor different from each other.

sometimes Jesus talk as a God, perform miracles and many more that God can only do.
and somtimes jesus talkvas a Man,a son of man, he felt thrsty, hungry and pain.

in cnclusion, jesus is both GOD and MAN.
Col 2:9 says (Jesus)is the x press image of the invincible God.
——————————————————————————————
—–
there is so much more i want to say about one true God, if you really want to know more about it or if you have some questions you can email it at this
address: [email protected].
thaks! and Godbless:)

[wind_slasher52]

OLD TESTAMENT WITNESSES

IN THE BIGINNING MOSES WROTE

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:1 Nang pasimula ay nilikha ng Dios ang langit at ang lupa.

DAVID WROTE

Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Psa 90:2 Bago nalabas ang mga bundok, O bago mo nilikha ang lupa at ang sanglibutan, Mula nga ng walang pasimula hanggang sa walang hanggan, ikaw ang Dios.

HOLY ANGELS DECLARE

Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name for thou only art holy:
Rev 15:4 Sinong hindi matatakot, Oh Panginoon, at luluwalhatiin ang iyong pangalan? sapagka't ikaw lamang ang banal;

ISRAEL COMMANDED

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:4 Dinggin mo, Oh Israel; ang Panginoon nating Dios ay isang Panginoon.

Deu 6:5 At iyong iibigin ang Panginoon mong Dios ng iyong buong puso, at ng iyong buong kaluluwa, at ng iyong buong lakas.

THE LAW OF GOD DECLARES

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:2 Ako ang Panginoon mong Dios, na naglabas sa iyo sa lupain ng Egipto, sa bahay ng pagkaalipin.
Exo 20:3 Huwag kang magkakaroon ng ibang mga dios sa harap ko.
Exo 20:4 Huwag kang gagawa para sa iyo ng larawang inanyuan o ng kawangis man ng anomang anyong nasa itaas sa langit, o ng nasa ibaba sa lupa, o ng nasa tubig sa ilalim ng lupa:
Exo 20:5 Huwag mong yuyukuran sila, o paglingkuran man sila; sapagka't akong Panginoon mong Dios, ay Dios na mapanibughuin, na aking dinadalaw ang katampalasanan ng mga magulang sa mga anak, hanggang sa ikatlo at ikaapat na salin ng lahi ng mga napopoot sa akin;

THE GREAT PATRIARCHS OF FAITH

Mar 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Mar 12:26 Nguni't tungkol sa mga patay, na sila'y mga ibabangon; hindi baga ninyo nabasa sa aklat ni Moises, tungkol sa Mababang punong kahoy, kung paanong siya'y kinausap ng Dios na sinasabi, Ako ang Dios ni Abraham, at ang Dios ni Isaac, at ang Dios ni Jacob?
Mar 12:27 Hindi siya ang Dios ng mga patay, kundi ng mga buhay: kayo'y nangagkakamaling lubha.

KING DAVID

Psa 86:10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
Psa 86:10 Sapagka't ikaw ay dakila, at gumagawa ng kagilagilalas na mga bagay: Ikaw na magisa ang Dios.

2Ch 2:5 And the house which I build is great: for great is our God above all gods.
2Ch 2:5 At ang bahay na aking itinatayo ay dakila: sapagka't dakila ang aming Dios kay sa lahat ng mga Dios.

KING SOLOMON

1Ki 8:23 And he said, LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart:
1Ki 8:23 At kaniyang sinabi, Oh Panginoong Dios ng Israel, walang Dios na gaya mo, sa langit sa itaas, o sa lupa sa ibaba; na siyang nagiingat ng tipan at ng kaawaan sa iyong mga lingkod, na lumalakad sa harap mo ng kanilang buong puso.

PROPHETS DECLARED

Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mal 2:10 Wala baga tayong lahat na isang ama? hindi baga isang Dios ang lumalang sa atin? bakit tayo nagsisigawa ng paglililo bawa't isa laban sa kaniyang kapatid, na nilalapastangan ang tipan ng ating mga magulang?

NEW TESTAMENT WITNESSES

RELIGIOUS SCRIBES WROTE

Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:32 At sinabi sa kaniya ng eskriba, Sa katotohanan, Guro, ay mabuti ang pagkasabi mo na siya'y iisa; at wala nang iba liban sa kaniya.

THE APOSTLES DECLARED

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1Jo 5:20 At nalalaman natin na naparito ang Anak ng Dios, at tayo'y binigyan ng pagkaunawa, upang ating makilala siya na totoo, at tayo'y nasa kaniya na totoo, sa makatuwid ay sa kaniyang Anak na si Jesucristo. Ito ang tunay na Dios, at ang buhay na walang hanggan.

THOMAS THE DOUBTER

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:28 Sumagot si Tomas, at sa kaniya'y sinabi, Panginoon ko at Dios ko.

1Co 8:4 we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:4 nalalaman natin na ang diosdiosan ay walang kabuluhan sa sanglibutan, at walang Dios liban sa iisa.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:5 Isang Panginoon, isang pananampalataya, isang bautismo.
Eph 4:6 Isang Dios at Ama ng lahat, na siyang sumasa ibabaw sa lahat, at sumasa lahat, at nasa lahat.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:5 Sapagka't may isang Dios at may isang Tagapamagitan sa Dios at sa mga tao, ang taong si Cristo Jesus,

CONCERNING JESUS CHRIST

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:9 Sapagka't sa kaniya'y nananahan ang buong kapuspusan ng pagka Dios sa kahayagan ayon sa laman,

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:19 Sa makatuwid baga'y, na ang Dios kay Cristo ay pinakipagkasundo ang sanglibutan sa kaniya rin, na hindi ibinibilang sa kanila ang kanilang mga kasalanan, at ipinagkatiwala sa amin ang salita ng pagkakasundo.

Joh 8:24 for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Joh 8:24 sapagka't malibang kayo'y magsisampalataya na ako nga ang Cristo, ay mangamamatay kayo sa inyong mga kasalanan.
JESUS HIMSELF DECLARED

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:30 Ako at ang Ama ay iisa.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:10 Hindi ka baga nananampalataya na ako'y nasa Ama, at ang Ama ay nasa akin? ang mga salitang aking sinasabi sa inyo'y hindi ko sinasalita sa aking sarili: kundi ang Ama na tumatahan sa akin ay gumagawa ng kaniyang mga gawa.

APOSTLE JOHN THE BELOVED

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:13 Ako ang Alpha at ang Omega, at ang una at ang huli, ang pasimula at ang wakas.

THE DEVIL KNEW HIM WELL

Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils a
lso believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:19 Ikaw ay sumasampalataya na ang Dios ay iisa; mabuti ang iyong ginagawa: ang mga demonio man ay nagsisisampalataya, at nagsisipanginig.

GOD HIMSELF DECLARES

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
Isa 43:12 : therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
Isa 43:10 Kayo'y aking mga saksi, sabi ng Panginoon, at aking lingkod na aking pinili: upang inyong maalaman at magsisampalataya kayo sa akin, at inyong matalastas na ako nga; walang Dios na inanyuan na una sa akin, o magkakaroon man pagkatapos ko.
Isa 43:11 Ako, sa makatuwid baga'y ako, ang Panginoon; at liban sa akin ay walang tagapagligtas.
Isa 43:12: kaya't kayo ang aking mga saksi, sabi ng Panginoon, at ako ang Dios.

Isa 44:6 ; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isa 44:6, Ako ang una, at ako ang huli; at liban sa akin ay walang Dios.

Isa 44:8 : have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa 44:8: hindi ko baga ipinahayag sa iyo ng una, at ipinakilala? at kayo ang aking mga saksi. May Dios baga liban sa akin?; ako'y walang nakikilalang iba.

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:
Exo 3:14 At sinabi ng Dios kay Moises, AKO YAONG AKO NGA; at kaniyang sinabi, Ganito ang sasabihin mo sa mga anak ni Israel, Sinugo ako sa inyo ni AKO NGA.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;
——————————————————————————————
—
here's some proof in the bible that states about one true God, the bible we used is the KJV 1611
theres also a tagalog version on it after the english version fro the benifit of the filipinos..
thanks!

[NickHassan]

Hi and welcome ws,
Have you asked God if it OK
that you deny that He is a Father
or that He has a Son?

I am a father and a grandfather and my family takes it's name from His
Eph 3.14 f

” 14For this reason I (AL)bow my knees before the Father,

15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,

16that He would grant you, according to (AM)the riches of His glory, to be (AN)strengthened with power through His Spirit in (AO)the inner man,

17so that (AP)Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being (AQ)rooted and (AR)grounded in love,

18may be able to comprehend with (AS)all the saints what is (AT)the breadth and length and height and depth,

19and to know (AU)the love of Christ which (AV)surpasses knowledge, that you may be (AW)filled up to all the (AX)fullness of God.”

[david]

Hi wind slasher

You said:

Quote

In st.John 10:30 says that “Me and the father are one”. here Jesuschrist clearly states that the father and him are one, they are not separate nor different from each other.

I don't believe being one cannot be understood this way, based on scripture.
Yes,John 10 says that Jesus and his father are one.
But moving on to John 17, notice what verses 21 and 22 say:

Speaking of his disciples, it says:
“I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:” (NIV)

So “just as” the father and son are one, Jesus disciples are to be “one.”
So you cannot look at that scripture and come to the conclusion that “they are not separate nor different from each other.”

[NickHassan]

amen

[wind_slasher52]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 24 2006,04:48)

Hi and welcome ws, Have you asked God if it OK that you deny that He is a Father or that He has a Son? I am a father and a grandfather and my family takes it's name from His Eph 3.14 f ” 14For this reason I (AL)bow my knees before the Father, 15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, 16that He would grant you, according to (AM)the riches of His glory, to be (AN)strengthened with power through His Spirit in (AO)the inner man, 17so that (AP)Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being (AQ)rooted and (AR)grounded in love, 18may be able to comprehend with (AS)all the saints what is (AT)the breadth and length and height and depth, 19and to know (AU)the love of Christ which (AV)surpasses knowledge, that you may be (AW)filled up to all the (AX)fullness of God.”

“Have you asked God if it OK that you deny that He is a Father or that He has a Son?”
=There is no denying that God is a Father of all, for all things were made by Him, for Him and according to His pleasure.. Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created u
Also there is no denying that He did have a son (Flesh, a seed of
abraham)through Mary she conceived by the Holy Ghost Mat 1:20-21 (notice Not by the Father because the holy Spirit is the Nature of God and they are not separate but one and the same). Notice also that there is in the Bible a Son of God…But never can be found GOD THE SON.

“I am a father and a grandfather and my family takes
it's name from His”
=God, is not to be compared with man. In
the original plan in Gen 1:26 Man is to be made in His image and likeness and not the other way around

“Eph 3.14”
=The
apostle was writing to the church in Ephesus whose experience and faith was the same as theirs. One God Believer, One mediator between God and Man, Baptized of water and of the Spirit…continued on in the apostles doctrine. You have to be the obey and be of the same faith before you can quote this scripture to belong.
” 14For this reason I (AL)bow my knees before the Father,
The Flesh (Christ) prays to God (Father, Spirit, without beginning and
end)

15from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,
This may refer either to God, the Father of Christ; who is the Father of the whole family in heaven and in earth; not only the Father of Christ, but the Father of spirits, of angelic spirits, as well as of the souls of men; and the Father of all the saints by adopting grace, whether above or below; they are all the household of God: or else to Jesus Christ, who is the everlasting Father, the Son over his own house, and the firstborn among many brethren: and this family consists either of elect
angels and elect men, who are both under one head, Christ, and are in one family, only with this difference, the one are servants, the other sons; or else only of elect men, of saints in heaven and in earth, who all make up but one family; and that part of it, which is on earth, consists of persons of various sizes and growth, as fathers, young men, and children, though they are all the children of God, and partake of the same privileges: and this family is named of Christ; they are called Christians from him, and he is the master and governor of them

16that He would grant you, according to (AM)the riches of His glory, to be AN)strengthened with power
through His Spirit in (AO)the inner man,
If you have received the true, biblical, apostolic jesus taught, plan of salvation as declared in Acts 2:38 and received the Spirit of God (Holy Ghost). You can claim to be included in this verse. But if not, please read Rom 8:9

17so that (AP)Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being (AQ)rooted and (AR)grounded in love,
By Faith you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Have you Believed since you received Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive
Act 5:32 the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
18may be able to comprehend with (AS)all the saints what is (AT)the breadth and length and height and depth,
Saints here is defined and used as to the men and women of God. Concerning mysteries, God reveals this to His Church
(Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. )

19and to know (AU)the love of Christ which (AV)surpasses knowledge, that you may be (AW)filled up to all the (AX)fullness of God.”
A promise for the church through the Holy Ghost (Spirit of Christ) that we have received. Jesus Christ is the fullness of that promise in Jesus Christ our Lord Amen. Col. 2:9
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[wind_slasher52]

Quote (david @ Aug. 24 2006,06:50)

Hi wind slasher You said: Quote In st.John 10:30 says that “Me and the father are one”. here Jesuschrist clearly states that the father and him are one, they are not separate nor different from each other. I don't believe being one cannot be understood this way, based on scripture. Yes,John 10 says that Jesus and his father are one. But moving on to John 17, notice what verses 21 and 22 say: Speaking of his disciples, it says: “I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:” (NIV) So “just as” the father and son are one, Jesus disciples are to be “one.” So you cannot look at that scripture and come to the conclusion that “they are not separate nor different from each other.”

In st.John 10:30 says that “Me and the father are one”. here Jesus christ clearly states that the father and him are one, they are not separate nor different from each other.
Me and the father are one here refers to the meaning God was in Christ 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. The Spirit Invisible God revealed himself through the flesh of Jesus Christ.
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: The ffirst perfect man made in the image and likeness of God as in Gen 1:26

I don't believe being one cannot be understood this way, based on scripture.
It doesn’t realy matter what we think or believe. But what matters is what the word of god is trying to teach and reveal to us, as we are to be led by the Holy Ghost

Yes,John 10 says that Jesus and his father are one. But moving on to John 17, notice what verses 21 and 22 say: Speaking of his disciples, it says:
“I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:” (NIV)
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
The honor which thou hast conferred on me by admitting me to union with thee, the same honor I have conferred on them by admitting them to like union with me by the Holy Ghost that they shall receive (Christ in the hearts of men)
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
The Holy Ghost that they received is the spirit of christ Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

So “just as” the father and son are one, Jesus disciples are to be “one.” So you cannot look at that scripture and come to the conclusion that “they are not separate nor different from each other.”

There is a way that we can rightly divide God’s word.
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

May God lead you by the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of truth, into the whole truth in God’s word. To God be the Glory forever, amen.

[NickHassan]

Hi WS2,
You quote, well actually you paraphrase Jn 10.30
“In st.John 10:30 says that “Me and the father are one”. here Jesus christ clearly states that the father and him are one, they are not separate nor different from each other.”

So simple reading of the text says

“the Father and I”
-two beings-
“are one”

Now it is odd to me that many look at this verse
and say that the second half of the verse
invalidates the simple meaning of the first half.

Not only that but Jesus spends a lot of time speaking about Himself and His Father
and the relationship they enjoy
and yet say the second half of this verse also invalidates all those words too??

That is surely the powerful influence of doctrinal prejudice.

It does not say
“The Father and I are one and the same person”
or
” The Father and I are the same being having never been separate”

Yet prejudice causes men to read these things between the lines.
We are told that the Son was given to have life in himself.

Paul spoke of three other kinds of UNITY in Eph 5.28f

“28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.”

He compares
the unity of Christ with the church
with the unity of the members of the body of Christ with one another
and with the unity of a man and a woman in marriage.

So the body of Christ is made up of millions of individuals with different roles and graces.
It is unified as a hand works in unity with an arm
and also organised and under the control of the head, Christ.

Marriage joins a man with his missing rib and completes a natural unity such that to love one's wife is to love oneself.

The man and the woman
and
the members of the body of Christ

begin life as separate individuals and yet become ONE.

Why then is it not sensible to read Jn 10 in the same natural idiom?

[wind_slasher52]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 27 2006,20:04)

Hi WS2, You quote, well actually you paraphrase Jn 10.30 “In st.John 10:30 says that “Me and the father are one”. here Jesus christ clearly states that the father and him are one, they are not separate nor different from each other.” So simple reading of the text says “the Father and I” -two beings- “are one” Now it is odd to me that many look at this verse and say that the second half of the verse invalidates the simple meaning of the first half. Not only that but Jesus spends a lot of time speaking about Himself and His Father and the relationship they enjoy and yet say the second half of this verse also invalidates all those words too?? That is surely the powerful influence of doctrinal prejudice. It does not say “The Father and I are one and the same person” or ” The Father and I are the same being having never been separate” Yet prejudice causes men to read these things between the lines. We are told that the Son was given to have life in himself. Paul spoke of three other kinds of UNITY in Eph 5.28f “28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.” He compares the unity of Christ with the church with the unity of the members of the body of Christ with one another and with the unity of a man and a woman in marriage. So the body of Christ is made up of millions of individuals with different roles and graces. It is unified as a hand works in unity with an arm and also organised and under the control of the head, Christ. Marriage joins a man with his missing rib and completes a natural unity such that to love one's wife is to love oneself. The man and the woman and the members of the body of Christ begin life as separate individuals and yet become ONE. Why then is it not sensible to read Jn 10 in the same natural idiom?

Brother,

Before we go any further. For our better understanding of each others point of view, please indicate of which among the popular faith of the Godhead do you believe in ?

1. Do you believe in ONENESS One True God, Spirit, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, does not change, whose going forth is from everlasting to everlasting.?

OR

2. Do you believe in the TRINITY three separate and distinct Gods, co-equal, co-eternal, co-existing, co-substance, co-nature ?

OR

3. Do you believe in the other form of TRINITY, One God in three persons or, co-equal, co-eternal, co-existing, co-substance, co-nature ?

My faith is stated in Number 1. This is very important before I answer of your questions any further, that we may understand well enough where we stand. You can just call me Lee for short. How do I call you if you don’t mind?

God bless us all.

LEE

[NickHassan]

WS ,
Believe in the Son of God for in him is salvation.
He is the servant vessel in whom God came.
He was anointed with the Spirit of God and power
and God was with him,
He was not the God
who was with him.
[Acts 10]

[wind_slasher52]

hey nick, pls answer my question first before i answer you.thank you:)

[Mercy]

One God who begot one Son who gives us his spirit to reconcile us to the one God.

[Proclaimer]

One God the Father.

This God is the God of Jesus and us.

There is also one Lord Jesus Christ.

That is what we should believe.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (wind_slasher52 @ Aug. 29 2006,03:13)

hey nick, pls answer my question first before i answer you.thank you:)

Why should he wind_slasher52?

If Nick sticks to scripture then why should you have a problem?

Why do you have to draw Nick away from scripture?

[wind_slasher52]

You quote, well actually you paraphrase Jn 10.30
“In st.John 10:30 says that “Me and the father are
one”. here Jesus christ clearly states that the father
and him are one, they are not separate nor different from each other.”
So simple reading of the text says
“the Father and I” -two beings “are one”

Praise the Lord now we’re gaining common grounds. God (Spirit, eternal, unlimited and uncreated) and Christ (Flesh, born of a woman, lived as a man, with beginning, suffered and died and rose again and now sits on the right hand of power) are one.         Col. 2:9 the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him bodily.
 
Now it is odd to me that many look at this verse
and say that the second half of the verse
invalidates the simple meaning of the first half.

In The first half Jesus was trying to show us the relationship between Christ (flesh) and the Father (God, Spirit).
The second half does not invalidate the former, as Jesus was trying to show the relationship of Christ and the Church. Therefore there should be no more confusion. Here we see that we are re-connected, related, re-united to God through Jesus Christ.
2Co 5:19  To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Rom 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Co 15:57  But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Gal 4:7  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

 
Not only that but Jesus spends a lot of time speaking
about Himself and His Father
and the relationship they enjoy
and yet say the second half of this verse also
invalidates all those words too??

You must have misunderstood and called invalidation. But as I have cleared  it out earlier by the scriptures that they actually draw the line of connection and exact relations between the Father and Jesus Christ and the
Church.
2Co 11:3  But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Phi 4:7  And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Col 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 
That is surely the powerful influence of doctrinal
prejudice.

Doctrinal prejudice or spiritual understanding according to the revelation and guidance of the Holy Spirit that dwells in Us. By the Way, Have you received the baptism of the Holy Ghost since you believed?

Joh 7:37  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38  He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39  (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

THE JEWS FIRST
Act 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

THE BIBLICAL APOSTOLIC PLAN OF SALVATION AS TAUGHT BY JESUS
Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

THE FIRST GENTILE CONVERT
Act 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45  And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48  And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

THE DISCIPLES OF JOHN THE BAPTIST CONVERTED
Act 19:5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

THE FIRST SAMARITAN CONVERTS
Act 8:14  Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15  Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16  (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17  Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
 
THE PROMISE IS FOR YOU TOO, FOR US ALL, TO THOSE THAT AR AFAR OFF
Act 10:34  Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 2:39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 10:35  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 
It does not say
“The
Father and I are one and the same person”

God, The Father, is a Spirit, He is not a Man or a person. Man is to be mage in His Image and likeness, and not the other way around.
 
” The Father and I are the same being having never been separate”

That’s good and correct. Even in the cross when Jesus suffered, the Father never left Him. But he felt the separation caused by sin when he took upon himself all
the sins of the world.
 
Yet prejudice causes men to read these things between the lines.

Spiritual understanding my friend and not prejudice as some men in the flesh would do. These wisdom and understanding God reveals to His church, but not to the worldly mind.

1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things
of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 
We are told that the Son was given
to have life in himself.

How true indeed! God, The Father of all life was in him bodily> Not only that he have life in himself, he is the resurrection and eternal life
Joh 11:25  Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and th
e life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
 
 
 
Paul spoke of three other kinds of UNITY in Eph 5.28f
“28So ought men to love their wives as their own
bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but
nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the
church:
30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of
his bones.
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and
mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they
two shall be one flesh.
32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning
Christ and the church.”
 
A man and woman when they enter into marriage they become one body.
Eph 5:31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

That is why when you receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost (Spirit of Christ) into your heart, Your spirit is in union with the Spirit of Christ in the same Body (your body, the church, the temple of the Holy Ghost). And therefore you enjoy the relationship as spoken of by the apostle Paul Eph 5:31 and they two shall be one flesh.
 
 
He compares
the unity of Christ with the church
with the unity of the members of the body of Christ
with one another and with the unity of a man and a woman in marriage.
 
So the body of Christ is
made up of millions of
individuals with different roles and graces.
It is unified as a hand works in unity with an arm
and also organised and under the control of the head,
Christ.

1Co 6:19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

The word church means – a body of called out believers, and Christ is the head
Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
 
Marriage joins a man with his missing rib and
completes a natural unity such that to love one's wife is to love oneself.
 The man and the woman and the members of the body of Christ
begin life as separate individuals and yet become ONE.

Amen. We have no controversy with
that
 
Why then is it not sensible to read Jn 10 in the same natural idiom?

Because this is not about idiom, nor is it about logic, nor is it a play of words or philosophy and reason of men, But is a spiritually discerned revelation of his word and truth by His spirit which the world by using the carnal wisdom, minds and understanding of men cannot comprehend.
To understand this mystery, You must be born again, you must enter  the kingdom (reign of God in your heart) God.
Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is
spirit.

 
Believe in the Son of God for in him is salvation.
He is the servant vessel in whom God came.
He was anointed with the Spirit of God and power
and God was with him, He was not the God who was with
him.

He is the anointed one, the son of the Living God, the Christ, the Lord and Savior. He is not another God, or the lesser God, but the flesh (son) whom God used to reveal himself to us, the man Christ Jesus is that same One true Spirit invisible God, revealed in the Flesh of Christ Jesus

We believe in Him brother, we believe. Praise be to God, in whom all honor
is due, through Jesus Christ our Lord…Amen

[Author]

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