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Quote (t8 @ April 10 2012,21:17) princess whether you can handle it or not, we have 3 choices as to where the universe came from. God
Something non-living
NothingWhy is this so hard to understand that?
It isn't. It is only the obstinate and foolish who cannot see how simple are the choices we have.Until you can make a good argument as to the universe coming from something eternal and non-living which gave rise to life, love, design, and DNA code without possessing any intellect or life and love itself, or you can make an argument for everything coming from absolute nothing, then the only option left is an eternal God who possesses (or possess the ability) of what he produced within the universe, i.e., life, love, design, and code.
You have no other option but these 3 and you rule out the first one. So let's hear why it is option 2 or 3. Until then you are blowing hot air and I am not interested in entertaining your diversions.
Of course there is another thing you can do and that is to add a fourth point. I can't wish you good luck with that because outside of Someone, Something, or Nothing, there are no more choices.
So why not face the truth and stop trying to avoid what is obvious.
That is the trait of many adults, yet a child could understand these 3 options and not have a problem with it.BTW, I love science, so don't say that I don't agree with science.
Contrary to what you might think, many of the best scientists of all time believe in God including the greatest physicist of all, Sir Isaac Newton.And I use science and the process of deduction in my arguments, while some Atheists best arguments as to why there is no God is summed up in one word, “because”. So obviously it is not science I have a problem with, but the lack of it coupled with bias, arrogance, and ignorance.
T8,Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
So what is 'face of the deep' and what is the 'face of the waters' God's spirit moved upon. Please explain this 'nothing as you call it, due to I see it as something.
So something was already there, before God came along. But it still brings us back to the questions how did the something get there, perhaps that nothing has always been something and we have yet to understand the whole concept.
It is hard to understand because you limit the thoughts that can come from exploring other options, so really I am not the one being foolish about the matter, am I?
The truth is I don't have the answer's to some of life questions, and I am not afraid to admit it. So I am not avoiding anything.
I don't blow hot air, and I don't believe in luck. Thinking like a child in awe and wonder is much better then turing into a old coot that cannot expand his thought process anymore. Dont you think.
I used to say people stopped at jesus and forgot about God, now I am thinking there is even more and people just stop at God.
I am fully aware that you are familiar with science concepts. There is no need to get all excited about the matter. I am not denying that great minds did believe in God, I had one tell me why wouldn't there be a big bang when God created the world. So take it easy there T8.
Quote (Stu @ April 11 2012,11:33) Quote (t8 @ April 11 2012,10:20) Quote (Stu @ April 11 2012,01:30) You have written so many lies about natural history in the past that I wonder how much your nose grew when you typed that.
Let's hear at least one Stu.Waiting…
Here are four. Do you need more?Posted: Mar. 11 2004,09:10
One of the main precepts of Evolution is the idea that simple things become more complex given timePosted: Feb. 15 2007,11:37
Hitler believed and practiced evolution.Posted: July 28 2007,12:34
saying that DNA of an ape is mostly similar to a human and therefore deriving that we came from Apes is still imaginationPosted: May 07 2009,14:44
Suddenly one day an eye was able to see, and then they were able to locate better members of the opposite sex to mate more regularly and pass on their fantastic mutation.Stuart
Not only does he rely on the data, he also collects it………..Quote (Stu @ April 11 2012,11:33) Here are four. Do you need more? Posted: Mar. 11 2004,09:10
One of the main precepts of Evolution is the idea that simple things become more complex given timePosted: July 28 2007,12:34
saying that DNA of an ape is mostly similar to a human and therefore deriving that we came from Apes is still imaginationPosted: May 07 2009,14:44
Suddenly one day an eye was able to see, and then they were able to locate better members of the opposite sex to mate more regularly and pass on their fantastic mutation.Stuart
Hi Stuart,Yes, the 'theory' of evolution is indeed fundamentally unsound! …why would you fall for such garbage?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgprincess.
Choose your option and make a precise and good case and I will read it.
I am not that interested in emotional responses that try to negate certain logic with questions that are irrelevant.Make a good case and head it “Nothing” or “Something”.
Otherwise I truly cannot be bothered with reading scattered emotional responses.
I have little time for things as it is with raising 2 kids and running a business.But I will give my time to a well constructed and thoughtful response.
If I don't see one, I will assume you have no argument to make.
And if you want me to dedicate more time to this post I am requesting from you, then post it in debates and stipulate that it is for me to reply to.
Otherwise just post it here and hopefully I remember to come back to this topic.Quote (princess @ April 11 2012,15:29) I don't blow hot air, and I don't believe in luck. Thinking like a child in awe and wonder is much better then turing into a old coot that cannot expand his thought process anymore. Dont you think.
But haven't you ruled out God?You said, “man created God”.
So you negate one of the possible three options based on what?
You even admit that you don't know enough to make certain judgements.
Yet here you are saying that man created God.This is what I mean about you blowing hot air.
You make a huge statement, admit you are ignorant to know anything for sure, and I take it you still stand by your comment. If it is not hot air, then I suggest you give it another appropriate name for me to call.
Quote (t8 @ April 11 2012,21:43) Yet here you are saying that man created God. This is what I mean about you blowing hot air.
You would say yourself (if you knew the numbers) that humans have invented about 10,000 gods.But you are saying that one of them isn't invented. That's the bizarre claim actually.
Stuart
Hi Stuart, how so?
He described many of the workings of our universe,
that was previously unknown to the bronze age
inhabitants of this planet. They're recorded in
The Bible; a historical document about him!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd J,
That claim has been debunked numerous times on this site. In fact, it is quite clear that the bible essentially captures the mindset of the ancient people at the time it was written, not the least which was the ridiculous notion that blood sacrifices were needed to appease the gods.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 12 2012,09:26) Ed J, (A)That claim has been debunked numerous times on this site. (B)In fact, it is quite clear that the bible essentially captures the mindset of the ancient people at the time it was written, (C)not the least which was the ridiculous notion that blood sacrifices were needed to appease the gods.
Hi WIT,A) FALSE! …only in your mind.
B) FALSE!
1) Biochemistry: Pig is an unhealthy animal to consume for sustenance.
Leviticus 11:7 …the swine …he is unclean to you.
Pigs are scavenger animals, eating both dung and carcass remains.
Toxins are excreted out of the sweat glands of mammals, pigs don't sweat!
Plus: Without the advent of refrigeration, pork meat is susceptible to trichinosis.2) Digestion: Slaughtered animals that “ARE” to be eaten,
must first be bleed; and dead animals are not fit for human consumption.
Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
Deut.15:23 …thou shalt not eat the blood thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.
Leviticus 22:8 That which dieth of itself, or is torn with beasts, he shall not eat to defile himself therewith.3) Astronomy: The Earth is round and that the Universe is ever expanding…
Isaiah 40:22 …the circle of the earth, and …that stretcheth out
the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Job 26:7 He …hangeth the earth upon nothing. (Gravitational forces hold it's position)eth: suffix -used to form the archaic third person singular present in verbs <doeth>
stretch: to extend in length, to extend or expand, to enlarge,
to become extended in length or breadth or both,
to extend over a continuous period.Heavens: the expanse of space, celestial.
spread: to open or expand over a large area, to stretch out: extend,
to distribute over an area, to become dispersed, the act or process of spreading.C) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in
his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (1 Cor 15:21-23)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ April 11 2012,21:38) princess. Choose your option and make a precise and good case and I will read it.
I am not that interested in emotional responses that try to negate certain logic with questions that are irrelevant.Make a good case and head it “Nothing” or “Something”.
Otherwise I truly cannot be bothered with reading scattered emotional responses.
I have little time for things as it is with raising 2 kids and running a business.But I will give my time to a well constructed and thoughtful response.
If I don't see one, I will assume you have no argument to make.
And if you want me to dedicate more time to this post I am requesting from you, then post it in debates and stipulate that it is for me to reply to.
Otherwise just post it here and hopefully I remember to come back to this topic.
Your diverting from the description of something being there when God happened by.However, I do understand the importance of raising children and handling a business so please do put your time and effort in them. Why do men always pull the card that women are so emotional, when they want to sweep things under the rug, I still haven't figure that out.
I will say you are the one being a bit testy there T8, borderline miserable, breathe T8, it will work out what ever is bothering you.
Take care T8, and the best to you and your family and business.
Ed J,
We have been over this before. If this is the best you've got – and it must be, since you keep repeating it over and over like a broken record, then it doesn't appear that you have that much to stand on.
If you want to read my response to this stuff, go here. I'm not going to go around in circles with you again.
Oh, and your verse from Corinthians does nothing to explain why your god needs to have blood spilled on his behalf in order to be appeased. It's an ancient superstition, shared by many ancient peoples.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 12 2012,14:18) Ed J, We have been over this before. If this is the best you've got – and it must be, since you keep repeating it over and over like a broken record, then it doesn't appear that you have that much to stand on.
If you want to read my response to this stuff, go here. I'm not going to go around in circles with you again.
Oh, and your verse from Corinthians does nothing to explain why your god needs to have blood spilled on his behalf in order to be appeased. It's an ancient superstition, shared by many ancient peoples.
Hi WIT,“At the mouth of three witnesses,
shall the matter be established.” (Deut 19:15)It's enough to establish the truth as it is “Three witnesses”,
and you haven't been able to discount even one; so it stands firm!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ April 06 2012,20:53) Quote (t8 @ April 06 2012,13:07) What preceded the Big Bang
What do you mean preceded? Do you mean to ask what happened earlier in time?Stuart
No Stu. What caused the Big Bang which includes time space etc.Ha ha. Your attempt to trap me makes me laugh. You are as subtle as a brick. Try walking on tip-toes next time.
Quote (Stu @ April 06 2012,21:20) Space-time inflated. It's not really an explosion.
Oh no, not an explosion. Rather, inflation in all directions that is speeding up.
Quote (Stu @ April 06 2012,21:20) In other words, t8's platitudinous uses of “nothing” and “god” don't even scratch the surface of the question of why there is a universe.
Ha ha. I offered to debate you on this and you declined. I have asked you to answer which of the three options it is or to offer a fourth option and still you decline.You are in decline Stu, so please stop pretending that you know what you are talking about. It has already been established that you are clueless regarding this. Anything you say still fits in the Someone, Something, or Nothing categories.
Quote (Stu @ April 06 2012,21:32) Quote (t8 @ April 06 2012,18:29) Beginnings have a cause.
Says who? You?Define cause for us, then explain how a cause of time could be possible.
Stuart
OK, if a beginning didn't have a cause then it didn't begin it was always there.So that is the eternal something option. Is this where you are planting your stake now?
Quote (Stu @ April 07 2012,00:52) What a load of moronic nonsense. Stuart
Thanks for the laughs Stu.
Again this is all over your head.Advice: Try concentrating on something you are capable of doing.
Do you like cooking, skateboarding, pottery… I mean there must be something you can put your time toward that is more productive. Have a think about it.
Quote (t8 @ June 05 2012,20:28) Quote (Stu @ April 06 2012,21:32) Quote (t8 @ April 06 2012,18:29) Beginnings have a cause.
Says who? You?Define cause for us, then explain how a cause of time could be possible.
Stuart
OK, if a beginning didn't have a cause then it didn't begin it was always there.So that is the eternal something option. Is this where you are planting your stake now?
You didn't answer my request, to define “cause”.You seem to be associating the words “begin” and “cause”. Why?
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ June 05 2012,20:32) Quote (Stu @ April 07 2012,00:52) What a load of moronic nonsense. Stuart
Thanks for the laughs Stu.
Again this is all over your head.Advice: Try concentrating on something you are capable of doing.
Do you like cooking, skateboarding, pottery… I mean there must be something you can put your time toward that is more productive. Have a think about it.
You are appealing to common concepts of time, without explaining how you believe those preconceptions apply to the Big Bang.While I'm not claiming cosmology is easy, or I have all the answers, I don't think it is me who is in this too deep.
If all you have is platitudes, then really you have nothing useful to add.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ June 05 2012,20:26) Quote (Stu @ April 06 2012,21:20) In other words, t8's platitudinous uses of “nothing” and “god” don't even scratch the surface of the question of why there is a universe.
Ha ha. I offered to debate you on this and you declined. I have asked you to answer which of the three options it is or to offer a fourth option and still you decline.You are in decline Stu, so please stop pretending that you know what you are talking about. It has already been established that you are clueless regarding this. Anything you say still fits in the Someone, Something, or Nothing categories.
I rejected your “debate” because it was couched in terms of a logical fallacy, the one you repeat now. Why are you limiting to these three options, the canard of the lying cretin creationist? Are you that limited yourself?Stuart
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