how do you pronounce YHWH?

[david]

I don't actually speak chinese OneSpirit. Most of the chinese people I talk to have a much better grasp of English than I do of chinese. And they're here partly to learn English, so most would much rather have everything in English than Chinese. So, while here, speaking English, they would use “Jehovah.”
However, here are the forms of the divine name in some different languages, including Cantonese Chinese.

Awabakal – Yehóa
Bugotu – Jihova
Cantonese – Yehwowah
Danish – Jehova
Dutch – Jehovah
Efik – Jehovah
English – Jehovah
Fijian – Jiova
Finnish – Jehova
French – Jéhovah
Futuna – Ihova
German – Jehova
Hungarian – Jehova
Igbo – Jehova
Italian – Geova
Japanese – Ehoba
Maori – Ihowa
Motu – Iehova
Mwala-Malu – Jihova
Narrinyeri – Jehovah
Nembe – Jihova
Petats – Jihouva
Polish – Jehowa
Portuguese – Jeová
Romanian – Iehova
Samoan – Ieova
Sotho – Jehova
Spanish – Jehová
Swahili – Yehova
Swedish – Jehova
Tahitian – Iehova
Tagalog – Jehova
Tongan – Jihova
Venda – Yehova
Xhosa – uYehova
Yoruba – Jehofah
Zulu – uJehova

[Eliyah]

Hmm, Dodging or side step the questions?

David,

OneSpirit said and asked,

Quote

It appears that you completely missed it, or decided to dodge the question. Well, let me ask another clarifying question for you to choose to dodge, or not to dodge. Can we be sure that “Jehovah” is not the pronounciation of the Almighty's name? Can we be certain that it is an inauthentic transliteration of the Hebrew word? (By the way, I will remind you for the second time that “Yahweh” is no more a Hebrew word than “Jehovah”. They are both English words that attempt to transliterate the Hebrew version. However, one of the two is clearly more accurate than the other.)

Unquote.

David, here again are The TWO questions.

“””” Can we be sure that “Jehovah” is not the pronounciation of the Almighty's name?

Can we be certain that it is an inauthentic transliteration of the Hebrew word?

David, I too would like to see your answers to those questions please?

[OneSpirit]

David,

The list that you have supplied looks to me like a list of transliterations of the name “Jehovah” into various languages.  They all appear to try imitate our English version as closely as possible in the given language.

So, instead of giving me a list of different names for the Almighty, in different languages, you have given me a list of names that are as much like “Jehovah” as possible in various languages.  You couldn't have proved my point any better.

So why do you change the sound of the divine name from “Yahweh” to “Jehovah” when transliterating from Hebrew to English?

Again, this is not a matter of perfectionism in pronounciation, as it has already been pointed out that the exact pronounciation of YHWH is uncertain.  This is a matter of you, as an individual, and the JW's, as an organization, knowingly advancing a demonstrably false name for the Almighty.  You have changed its form, (by adding a “J” especially), to suit your convenience.  If you used the name “Jehovah” instead of “Yahweh” because you didn't know any better, I would have no issue with you.  But, you know better, and thereby demonstrate a lack of respect for the true name of our Creator.

[Eliyah]

Also, which of the two names whether ” Jehovah “, or ” Yahweh ” is the more correct and accurate English transliteration of the four letters of ” YHWH ” ?

[david]

We have changed it's form to suit our convenience? you say.
(Yes Onespirit, we have a hidden agenda of promoting the letter “J.” It's true. You're on to us.)
Why do YOU change the sound of the divine name…? you say.

WE have done nothing of the sort. I believe your problem is with certain scholars who lived hundreds of years ago. Much like the name “Jesus” or the word “God,” the English language seldom follows a straight path. Since we speak English, we used God's name in that language, as it was commonly translated. And since as you point out, we can't be certain of the original pronounciation, instead of fighting over which pronunciation is the right one (a subject in futility for now) we use the name that is used in our language to represent the Almighty.

In answer to your questions, yes, I think we can be certain that “Jehovah” is not how it was originally pronounced, as we can be of the name “Jesus,” as well. No one knows how it was originally pronounced you say.
And no, “Jehovah” is not a proper transliteration of the divine name. Does it bother you that “Jesus” isn't either?

david.

[Eliyah]

David,

The title of ' G-d ' was and is of pagan origin, the same as ' Easter=Astarte ' and ' christmas ', and there is no difference, because where the one was and is practiced, so was the other also.

There was no letter ' J ' in the English Alphabet until 5 or 6 hundred years ago, and the Name of ” Yahweh “ is an English transliteration from the four letters YHWH, and it( Yahweh) is not a Hebrew name.

There is a question that I would like you to answer please, as well as my previous question.

1. Can you explain to us how the JWs Organization decided and come to the conclusion on the English Transliteration of the form name ' Jehovah ' to begin with and where did it originate from and from whom?

Eliyah C.

[Eliyah]

2. Also, which of the two names whether ” Jehovah “, or ” Yahweh ” is the more correct and accurate English transliteration of the four letters of ” YHWH ” ?

3. If ' Jehovah ' is, then explain how is it the more correct transliteration of YHWH ?

[david]

EliJAH,

1. I assume you know the answer to the first question.
2. You mean you don't know the answer to question number two?
3. Have I ever said it was the more correct transliteration?
Listen, I'm not a Hebrew/English linguist. And if I was, I still wouldn't know a lot. What I do know is this:
Jehovah is what the English word for the tetragramaton has been for 500 years.
As a result of use, Jehovah has all the right connotations.
I'm not suggesting you don't use Yahweh, but rather that it's not necessary for us to use the original pronounciation which is unknown anyway.

Something I've been wondering about. The English name “Elijah”?
Why is there a “J” in it? Wasn't it a Hebrew name? I know this proves nothing, but still, what does it mean that Elijah in English is spelt as it is?

Isn't this how Bible names have been translated. Jesus, Jonah, etc.
Again, I'm not a linguist, but doesn't translating the divine name as Yahweh contradict the way we translate yod almost everywhere else in the Bible. We do not translate Yona, but Jonah, Joshua not Yeshua. Jerusalem, not Yerusalem. Jehosaphat, Jonathan, Judah, Judas?

Jehu, Jehoikim, Jehoshua, Jehosheba, Jehoshebeath, Jehosheba, Jehoram, Jehoram, Jehonathan, Jehonadab, Jehoiarib, Jehoash, Jehoiada, Jehohanan, Jehoaddah, Jehoaddan, Jehoahaz, Jehizkiah, etc, etc, etc.
there are many others.

Again, I don't know a lot about translating. I do know that for some reason, these names (which probably mostly are connected to God's name) have the letter “J” in them.

[Eliyah]

David,

I'm NOT a JW, and that is why i'm asking you.

I was asking you concerning JWs own reasonings.

Again, 1. Can you explain to us how the JWs Organization decided and come to the conclusion on the English Transliteration of the form name ' Jehovah ' to begin with and where did it originate from and from whom?

[david]

You can't seriously be asking me this. And if you are, it's not because you want to know the answer. Despite you not being a Witness, you have several times implied you know more about Jehovah's Witnesses than I do. So why don't I pretend like I don't know the answer to that question and let you answer it, as I have a feeling you'll say what you want to say about it regardless of what I say.
Listen, Elijah, you can actually be helpful to me. Tomorow, I have a talk on “Why faith must have works.” I'm trying to think up an illustration that hasn't been used that can apply to this. Any ideas?

david.

[Eliyah]

David,

Faith, belief, and obedience is practically syn.( See John 3:15-21) and ( Heb.4).

Its not that ” WHY ” faith must have works, but that ” FAITH or BELIEF ” will produce “” good works of obedience “”( James 2), and to do “” good works of obedience to Yah, is to show faith or belief in Yah””.

Now, I'm well aware of what others say concerning the name ' Jehovah ', but can you not answer that two part question concerning how and where your own organization come to accept that name?

Again,

1. Can you explain to us how the JWs Organization decided and come to the conclusion on the English Transliteration of the form name ' Jehovah ' to begin with and where did it originate from and from whom?

Eliyah C.

[Eliyah]

As for…

Quote

I'm trying to think up an illustration that hasn't been used that can apply to this. Any ideas?

Yes, use the scriptural example of ( Hebrews 3 and 4), they( the ancient children of Israel) did not exercise faith in Yah being proved by their dis-obedience to Yah's commandments.

And its no different today either for a true believer, as faith or belief in Yah without obedience to ALL His Commandments( Including Exod.23:13) in His Words of scriptures is a dead faith as ( James 2= Yahcob) says too.

For even the demons believe there is a Creator Yah and Messiah and they shutter or tremble, but they wilfully dis-obey and do not obey Yah's Laws and Commandments though, and the same goes for many people on this earth today too.

Now, back to that question.

1. Can you explain to us how the JWs Organization decided and come to the conclusion on the English Transliteration of the form name ' Jehovah ' to begin with and where did it originate from and from whom?

Eliyah C.

[NickHassan]

Quote (david @ Sep. 28 2005,06:53)

You can't seriously be asking me this.  And if you are, it's not because you want to know the answer.  Despite you not being a Witness, you have several times implied you know more about Jehovah's Witnesses than I do.  So why don't I pretend like I don't know the answer to that question and let you answer it, as I have a feeling you'll say what you want to say about it regardless of what I say. Listen, Elijah, you can actually be helpful to me.  Tomorow, I have a talk on “Why faith must have works.”  I'm trying to think up an illustration that hasn't been used that can apply to this.  Any ideas? david.

Hi david,
Can an apple tree not produce apples or a grapevine not produce grapes? Yes it can but it will be cut down and thrown in the fire.[Mt 7] Or a useless branch be pruned off and likewise end in the fire.[Jn 15]

It is against nature for these things not to produce fruit after their kind.

But neither can a thorn bush produce grapes.[Mt 7]

We need the Spirit for the Spirit to produce the fruit of the Spirit. Without Christ we can do nothing. We can, however,  quench the Spirit and frustrate the use God has planned for us.

The yoke is easy and the burden light so we should not seek for ourselves heavy burdens that may be seen by God as unhelpful to the spread of the kingdom, and not help our own salvation.

[Eliyah]

Nick,

Without Yah's true Spirit, people cannot and will not obey His Laws and Commandments, and they are enmity against Yah and His Laws ( Rom.8:7) as most of this world and those calling themselves christian are today too.

[Eliyah]

Also, those who do error such as traditional christianity in claiming Yah's Laws and Commandments cannot be kept and obeyed through His true Spirit, are of and still in the flesh as Paul makes that plain in ( Rom.Chapter 8) because they are enimity( an enemy) against Yah, and against His Laws( Rom.8:7) because the carnal mind is against Yah and His laws, and do not want to be subject to His Laws either, and that is very evident in the traditional teachings of modern denominations today too.

[Eliyah]

Now David,

Back to that question.

1. Can you explain to us how the JWs Organization decided and come to the conclusion on the English Transliteration of the form name ' Jehovah ' to begin with and where did it originate from and from whom?

[Eliyah]

Nick, You said

Quote

Hi david, Can an apple tree not produce apples or a grapevine not produce grapes? Yes it can but it will be cut down and thrown in the fire.[Mt 7] Or a useless branch be pruned off and likewise end in the fire.[Jn 15] It is against nature for these things not to produce fruit after their kind. But neither can a thorn bush produce grapes.[Mt 7] We need the Spirit for the Spirit to produce the fruit of the Spirit. Without Christ we can do nothing. We can, however, quench the Spirit and frustrate the use God has planned for us. The yoke is easy and the burden light so we should not seek for ourselves heavy burdens that may be seen by God as unhelpful to the spread of the kingdom, and not help our own salvation.

Nick, didn't Messiah say that He was the true vine(John. 15:1-5), and didn't He also say that He obeyed and kept the Father Yah's Commandments( John 15:10), and didn't Peter instruct us to follow in His- Messiah's steps and do as He did( 1 Peter 2:21), and didn't Paul say that if any person has not the Spirit of Messiah, that person is none of Messiah at all( Rom.8:9), and IF Messiah dwells in You (Rom.8:10), will you not also keep and obey the Father Yah's Commandments too ?

Well, if Messiah and His Spirit dwells in you, then are you not going to fulfill and obey the Father Yah's Commandments as He did too ?

Like Paul said, those who are hostile against Yah's Laws are still fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.( Rom.8), and the entire world including traditional christianity are hostile against Yah's Laws and do exactly that.

Eliyah C.

[Eliyah]

Nick, before you merely breeze in 6 to 10 seconds through that post of mine, please take the time to look up those scriptures, and answer those questions will you?

[OneSpirit]

David wrote:

Quote

And no, “Jehovah” is not a proper transliteration of the divine name.  Does it bother you that “Jesus” isn't either?

Yes.  It is a complete butchering of the original name given to the Messiah, and modern translators are well enough aware of this mistake to have fixed the problem.  For example:

In the KJV, Acts 7:45 reads:

Quote

Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

In the NKJV, Acts 7:45 reads:

Quote

which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David,

The NKJV fixes the extremely poor transliteration the name “Yahshua”, as far as the OT leader is concerned, but they left the name of the NT Messiah untouched, even though both men share the same Hebrew name.

Why was the name changed, first in Greek, and subsequently in English?  I am sure Eliyah has some theories on that, (though personally I haven't been able to substantiate any one theory), but it is clear that the new name certainly doesn't have the same connection to the Creator's name as the original one does.  In fact, it has a stronger connection with the name “Zeus”, (especially when you consider the original pronounciation of “Jesus”, which sounded more like “Hay-zoos“), than it has connection with the name YHWH.

By the way, your refusal to address Eliyah without changing his name to “Elijah” is one of the rudest things that I have witnessed on this board.  Unless he has expressed a lack of preference for either version, it is extremely arrogant of you to presume to change his name without consent.  It shows a complete lack of respect for him as a person, but perhaps that is your intent.

(I should also point out that I am defending Eliyah as a person.  I am not defending his beliefs, because I certainly don't agree with much of what he has to say.)

[david]

I'm sorry if I offended you Eliyah by using the English version of your name “EliJAH.” OneSpirit, did you know that I originally told Eliyah why I was using EliJah when I started speaking to him. He said nothing of it and it hasn't seemed to bother him. Since it seemed from the beginning that Eliyah was going to be all about pronouncing God's name, I thought I would make my points with his name.
My reason for using the English “EliJah” was twofold:
It not bothering him illustrates a point very nicely with regard to the use of the pronunciation of the divine name.
Secondly, that letter “J.” Why? I'm sorry if I offended you Eliyah by using the English version of your name “EliJAH.” OneSpirit, did you know that I originally told Eliyah why I was using EliJah when I started speaking to him. He said nothing of it and it hasn't seemed to bother him.

Is Yahshua an “extremely poor transliteration?” Should Jesus name be “Joshua” as OneSpirit says?
If God's name should be Yahwah, then transliteriting his son's name as Joshua would be grossly inconsistent, wouldn't it?

Something I've been wondering about. The English name “Elijah”?
Why is there a “J” in it? Wasn't it a Hebrew name? I know this proves nothing, but still, what does it mean that Elijah in English is spelt as it is, with a “J” for the Jah part?

Isn't this how Bible names have been translated. Jesus, Jonah, etc.
Again, I'm not a linguist, but doesn't translating the divine name as Yahweh contradict the way we translate yod almost everywhere else in the Bible. We do not translate Yona, but Jonah, Joshua not Yeshua. Jerusalem, not Yerusalem. Jehosaphat, Jonathan, Judah, Judas?

Jehu, Jehoikim, Jehoshua, Jehosheba, Jehoshebeath, Jehosheba, Jehoram, Jehoram, Jehonathan, Jehonadab, Jehoiarib, Jehoash, Jehoiada, Jehohanan, Jehoaddah, Jehoaddan, Jehoahaz, Jehizkiah, etc, etc, etc.
there are many others.

Again, I don't know a lot about translating. I do know that for some reason, these names (which probably mostly are connected to God's name) have the letter “J” in them.

If there are any questions out there that I haven't answered, I presume Eliyah will let me know. I have to work now.

david.

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