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http://www.sacrednamemovement.com/OriginalPronunciationofYHWHunknown.html
are you sure the name, Yahweh, is the correction pronunciation?
how truthful are historians and archaeologists? http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20041225/news_1n25fraud.html
We can be sure of ONE NAME, and that is the short form of the name “” Yah “” it is first used in ( Exod.15:2) by Moses, and in the Strongs Concordance it is “” Yahh “” Hebrew number 3050).
There was no letter ” J ” untill 500 hundred years ago, and the original letter is ” Y “, and most all Hebrew Scholars agree on that, including “” James Moffatt's “” translation and most all others.
Here they are.
Quote “Strictly speaking, YAHWEH is the only ‘name’ of God. In Genesis wherever the word sem (‘name’) is associated with the divine being that name is YAHWEH. When Abraham or Isaac built an altar ‘he called on the name of YAHWEH’ (Gen. 12:8; 13:4; 26:25)….YAHWEH, therefore, in contrast with Elohim, is a proper noun, the name of a Person, though that Person is divine. As such, it has its own ideological setting; it presents God as a Person, and so brings him into relationship with other, human, personalities. It brings God near to man, and he speaks to the Patriarchs as one friend to another.” (Tyndale’s New Bible Dictionary, p. 430) Quote “I further betray my faith by the use of the English word ‘God,’ rooted as it is in old Germanic paganism. I struggle with ways to replace this term in English but come up empty-handed. By ‘God,’ I mean Y-H-W-H, the One of all being. This name of God is the starting point of all Jewish theology.” (Seek My Face, Speak My Name by Rabbi Arthur Green, p. 18) Quote “The covenant name for God was ‘YAHWEH.’ Israel’s faith was a new response to God based on His disclosure. This name was so unique and powerful that God formed a covenant with His people based upon his self-revelation.” (Holman’s Bible Dictionary, p. 1005) Quote Rabbinical commentary has this to say concerning the first introduction of the name YAHWEH in the Scriptures (Gen. 2:4, “These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that YAHWEH Elohim made the earth and the heavens.”) – “~yhil{a/ hw”hy> – HaSHEM God. This is the first mention in the Torah of the Hebrew four-letter Name h-w-h-y, [the English equivalent of the Hebrew letters in the name of YAHWEH written from right to left as Hebrew is written] which denotes God in His Attribute of Mercy. At first, God created the world exclusively with the Attribute of Justice [Elohim], because the ideal state is for Man to be judged according to his deeds, without a need for special mercy, but God knew that Man cannot survive without mercy and forbearance. Therefore He added the Name signifying mercy, to teach that He would temper justice with compassion (Rashi to 1:1). The Name h-w-h-y also signifies the eternity of God, because its letters are also those of the words hywI hw<ho hy''h'', He was, Is, and will be. In the words of Rambam’s fourth principle of faith, God ‘Is the very first and the very last.’ Everything in the created universe must have a moment when it came into existence, but God is infinite; He transcends time. In recognition of this concept, the Four-letter Name is often translated the Eternal One. This is also the proper Name of God." (The Stone Edition of The Chum ash, p. 11) Quote “I further betray my faith by the use of the English word ‘God,’ rooted in old Germanic paganism. I struggle with ways to replace this term in English but come up empty-handed. By ‘God,’ of course, I mean Y-H-W-H, the One of all being. This name of God is the starting point of all Jewish theology. It is to be read as an impossible construction of the verb ‘to be.’ HaYaH – that which was – HoWeH – that which is – and YiHYeH – that which will be – are here all forced together in a grammatically impossible conflation. Y-H-W-H is a verb that has been artificially arrested in motion and made to function as a noun. As soon as you try to grab hold of such a noun, it runs away from you and becomes a verb again. ‘Thought does not grasp you at all,’ as the wise have always known. Y-H-W-H as a noun can be the bearer of predicates, but those too become elusive as soon as the verbal quality of the divine name reasserts itself. Try to say anything definitional about Y-H-W-H and it dashes off and becomes a verb again. This elusiveness is underscored by the fact that all the letters that make up this name served in ancient Hebrew interchangeably as consonants and as vowels. Really they are mere vowels, mere breath. There is nothing hard or defined in their sound. The name of that which is most eternal and unchanging in the universe is also that which is wiped away as readily as a passing breath.” (Seek My Face, Speak My Name by Rabbi Arthur Green, p. 18) The Letter ” J ” is a modern addition in English.
Quote The Encyclopedia Americana contains the following on the J: “The form of J was unknown in any alphabet until the 14th century. Either symbol (J, I) used initially generally had the consonantal sound of Y as in year. Gradually, the two symbols (J, I) were differentiated, the J usually acquiring consonantal force and thus becoming regarded as a consonant, and the I becoming a vowel. It was not until 1630 that the differentiation became general in England.”
Quote The New Book of Knowledge reads: “J, the tenth letter of the English alphabet, is the youngest of the 26 letters. It is a descendant of the letter I and was not generally considered a separate letter until the 17th century. The early history of the letter J is the same as the history of the letter I. I is a descendant of the ancient Phoenician and Hebrew letter yod and the Greek letter iota” (Vol. 10, 1992 ed.).
Quote The Random House Dictionary of the English Language says about the J:
“The tenth letter of the English alphabet developed as a variant form of I in Medieval Latin, and except for the preference for the J as an initial letter, the two were used interchangeably, both serving to represent the vowel (i) and the consonant (y). Later, through specialization, it came to be distinguished as a separate sign, acquiring its present phonetic value under the influence of the FrenchQuote The Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th Edition, under “J,” offers additional information: “J, a letter of the alphabet which, as far as form is concerned, is only a modification of the Latin I and dates back with a separate value only to the 15th century. It was first used as a special form of initial I, the ordinary form being kept for use in other positions. As, however, in many cases initial i had the consonantal value of the English y in iugum (yoke), &c., the symbol came to be
used for the value of y, a value which it still retains in German: Ja! Jung, & c. Initially it is pronounced in English as an affricate dzh. The great majority of English words beginning with j are of foreign (mostly French) origin, as ‘jaundice,’ ‘judge’”…(p.103).Quote Funk and Wagnall’s Encyclopedia (1979 edition), volume 14, page 94 under “J,” states: “J, the tenth letter and seventh consonant in the English alphabet. It is the latest addition to the English script and has been inserted in the alphabet after I, from which it was developed, just as V and W follow U, the letter from which they arose. In form, J was originally merely a variation of I; J appeared first in Roman times, when it was used sometimes to indicate the long i vowel sound, but was often used interchangeably with I. The Romans pronounced I as a vowel in some words, such as iter, and as a semi-vowel in others, for example, iuvenis, spelled presently juvenis. The only difference in spelling, however, was the occasional use of double i for the y sound for example, in maiior, spelled presently major. In the Middle Ages the elongated form (j) was used as an ornamental device, most often initially and in numeral series; many old French manuscripts indicate the numeral 4 by the letter sequence iiij. The use of j as an initial led ultimately to its specialized use to indicate both the old semi-vowel sound y, found in German, and the new palatal consonant sounds (z) and (dz), found in French, Spanish and English. Not until the middle of the 17th century did this usage become universal in English books; in the King James Bible of 1611, for example, the words Jesus and judge are invariably Iesus and iudge. Long after the invention of printing, j thus became more than a mere calligraphic variation of i (which in Latin could be either vowel or semi-vowel), and, j became restricted to a consonantal function.
“In English, j has the composite sound of d + zh, as in journal. In French, on the other hand, the zh sound alone is given the letter, as in jour; German has retained the original y sound of the Latin i consonant, as in jahr; and Spanish has introduced a new sound resembling a guttural ch, as in Jerez. In Middle English, before the differentiation of i and j, the combination gi was sometimes used to represent the dzh sounds, such as in Giew for Jew, and in modern times the soft g is used for the same sound, as in general…”
Webster’s New Universal Unabridged Dictionary confirms how the J developed from the I and became a consonant only a few centuries ago:
“J, j (ja), n. 1. The tenth letter of the English alphabet: formerly a variant of I, i, in the seventeenth century it became established as a consonant only, as in Julius, originally spelled Iulius.”
The letter J was often used instead of the letter I, especially at the beginning of a word. This became common in the 1600s (World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 2, 1995 ed). Medieval scribes added a tail to the second I when two I’s appeared together. Because a beginning I almost always has a consonant sound, the long form, J, came to be used generally for the consonant sound of the letter (New Book of Knowledge).
It became necessary to distinguish between the J and the I when the dictionary came into being. In the seventeenth century, the dictionary’s appearance forced a consistent spelling. Using either I or J became mandatory to ensure proper alphabetical positioning. Owing to this close kinship with I, J was inserted immediately following I in our English alphabet.
Note the substantiating comments on the J from the Encyclopedia Americana:
“It is one of the few permanent additions to those alphabets, made in medieval or modern times. More exactly, it was not an addition, but a differentiation from an existing letter, I, which in Latin, besides being a vowel (as in index), had also the consonantal value of ‘Y’ (as in maior, pronounced ‘mayor’).
“At a later state, the symbol ‘J’ was used for the distinctive purposes, particularly when the ‘I’ had to be written initially (or in conjunction with another ‘I’). Either symbol used initially generally had the consonantal sound of ‘Y’ (as in Year) so that the Latin pronunciation of either Ianuarius or Januarius was as though the spelling was ‘Yanuarius.’ While in some words of Hebrew and other origin (such as Hallelujah or Junker), ‘J’ has the phonetic value of ‘Y.’”
We discover, then, that the letter J derived from the vowel letter I and originally had the same sound as the vowel I. That is why the lower case j still has a dot over it. The letter I represents the Greek iota (I), which usually corresponds to the Hebrew yothe (Y as in yes). The letter J has a Y sound (as in “hallelujah”) in Latin, German, and Scandinavian languages. In Spanish, J is an aspirate, having the sound of H.
The J was first pronounced as the I at the time of the introduction of the printing press. Dutch printers fostered utilizing the J, especially at the beginning of a word. The letter J eventually acquired its own sound. It was the French who gave the letter J the present sound of the soft letter g as in “large” or “purge.” In Latin, German, and other languages the J is pronounced more like Y with an “ee” sound. The Spanish J is more like an aspirant as in San Jose. Some old European maps still show the spelling of countries like Jugoslavia (Yugoslavia) or Sowjet (Soviet) Russia. It is only in the last century that the letter J has firmly taken on the French pronunciation as in joy or journal.
Webster’s Universal Dictionary (1936) reinforces the fact of the early relationship of the letter J to I:
“As a character it was formerly used interchangeably with ‘I,’ both letters having originally the same sound and after the ‘J’ sound came to be common in English, it was often written where this sound must have been pronounced. The separation of these two letters is of comparatively recent date, being brought about through the influence of the Dutch printers.”
[/QUOTE] And What About ‘Jehovah’?
Scholars know that Jehovah could never be the name of the Heavenly Father. Aside from the error with the letter J, this word has other problems. Even the Catholics, who have been given the distinction of inventing the word “Jehovah,” know it is not the Father’s Name.
Note what the New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) says under “Yahweh”: “Judging from Greek transcriptions of the sacred name, YHWH ought to be pronounced Yahweh. The pronunciation Jehovah was unknown in ancient Jewish circles, and is based upon a later misunderstanding of the scribal practice of using the vowels of the word Adonai with the consonants of YHWH,” p. 1065.
In the preface to the Revised Standard Version of the Bible is the following: “The form Jehovah is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. The word ‘Jehovah’ does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew,” pp. 6-7.
In the introduction to The Emphasized Bible, editor Joseph Rotherham writes, “The pronunciation Jehovah was unknown until 1520, when it was introduced by Galatinus; but was contested by Le Mercier, J. Drusius, against grammatical and historical propriety.” Rotherham continues his analysis of this ghost word, “Erroneously written and pronounced Jehovah, which is merely a combination of the sacred Tetragrammaton and the vowel in the Hebrew word for Lord, substituted by the Jews for YHWH, because th
ey shrank from pronouncing The Name…To give the name YHWH the vowels of the word for Lord (Heb. Adonai) and pronounce it Jehovah, is about as hybrid a combination as it would be to spell the name Germany with the vowels in the name Portugal –viz., Gormuna” (pp.24-25).Perhaps the best explanation of how the word Jehovah came about is made in the prestigious Oxford English Dictionary. A photocopy of its entry on “Jehovah” is shown at the top of the page.
The sacred Name was deemed too holy to pronounce. Either because of this fact or because its four letters are also employed as vowels, the Masoretes did not vowel point the Tetragrammaton. Instead, the vowel points for “Adonai” were inserted, alerting the reader to say “Adonai” rather than blurting out the sacred Name Yahweh. Along came Christian scholars in late medieval times who didn’t realize what had been done. Not skilled in Hebrew, they mistakenly combined these added vowels with the Tetragrammaton and the result was the hybrid combination “Jehovah.”
The Jewish Encyclopedia says about the name Jehovah, “This name is commonly represented in modern translations by the form ‘Jehovah,’ which, however, is the a philological impossibility…This form has arisen through attempting to pronounce the consonants of the name with the vowels of Adonai…” (p.160).
The Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves admit that “Jehovah” is inferior to “Yahweh.” In their book, Let Your Name Be Sanctified (p.16), they quote the Roman Catholic translator of The Westminster Version of the Sacred Scriptures, saying, “I should have preferred to write ‘Yahwh,’ in which, although not certain, is admittedly superior to ‘Jehovah,’”
On page 17 of this same book the Jehovah’s Witnesses write, “In harmony with the practice that had developed among the superstitious, the vowel signs for Elohim or for Adonay were inserted at the accustomed places in the text to warn the Hebrew reader to say those words instead of the divine name. By combining those warning vowel sings with the Tetragrammaton the pronunciation Yahowih and Yehowah were formed.”
Then on page 20 they quote the Lexicon for the Books of the Old Testament, by Koehler and Baumgartner, under the Tetragrammaton: “’The wrong spelling Jehovah (Revised Version: The LORD) occurs since about 1100,’ and then it offers its arguments in favor of Yahweh as ‘the correct and original pronunciation.’”
In the foreword of their Bible, The New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures (published by the Jehovah’s Witness Watchtower Bible and Tract Society), they say on page 25:
“While inclining to view the pronunciation ‘Yahweh’ as the more correct way, we have retained the form ‘Jehovah’ because of people’s familiarity with it since the 14th century.
Other references substantiate proper pronunciation as “Yahweh.” The 15th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, volume 12, p. 995, makes the following comment under the heading “Jehovah”:
“The pronunciation ‘Jehovah’ is an error resulting among Christians from combining the consonants Yhwh (Jhvh) with the vowels of ‘adhonay, ‘Lord,’ which the Jews in reading the Scriptures substituted for the sacred name, commonly called the tetragrammaton as containing four consonants…The Rabbinic tradition that after the death of Simeon the Just (fl.290 B.C.) It was no longer pronounced even on these occasions, is contradicted by the well-attested statement that in the last generation before the fall of Jerusalem (A.D. 70) it was uttered so low that the sounds were lost in the chant of the priest. After that event the liturgical use of the name ceased, but the tradition was perpetuated in the Rabbinic schools; it continued also to be employed by healers, exorcists and magicians, and is found on many magical papyri. It is asserted by Philo that only priests might pronounce it and by Josephus that those who knew it were forbidden to divulge it. Finally the Samaritans shared the scruples of the Jews, except that they used it in judicial oaths….The early Christian scholars therefore easily learnt the true pronunciation.”
Another reference tells us, “The early Christian scholars therefore easily learnt the true pronunciation. Clement of Alexandria (d. 212) gives Iaove or Iaovai (or in one manuscript Iaov), Origen (d. 253-54) ‘Ian, and Epiphanius (d. 404) IaBe (or Iave in one manuscript); Theodoret (d. 457) says that the Samaritans pronounced it IaBe…” (Vol. 12). Samaritan poetry employs the Tetragrammaton and then rhymes it with words having the same sound as Yah-oo-ay (Journal of Biblical Literature, 25, p.50 and Jewish Encyclopedia, vol.9, p.161).
The following authorities also leave no doubt as to the proper and correct pronunciation of Yahweh’s Name:
¨ “The pronunciation Yahweh is indicated by transliteration of the name into Greek in early Christian literature, in the form iaoue (Clement of Alexandria) or iabe (Theodoret; by this time Gk. b had the pronunciation of v)…Strictly speaking, Yahweh is the only ‘name’ of God. In Genesis wherever the word sem (‘name’) is associated with the divine being that name is Yahweh,” Eerdman’s Bible Dictionary, 1979 page 478.
The Latin v spoken of here had the same sound as the English w, sharing a close affinity with the u (Harper’s Latin Dictionary). That is why the w (“double u”) is made up of two v’s. The v was used as a vowel, only later becoming a consonant. It came from the u, which it follows in the alphabet.
¨ “It is now held that the original name was IaHUe(H), i.e. Jahve(h, or with the English values of the letters, Yahweh(h, and one or other of these forms is now generally used by writers upon the religion of the Hebrews” (Oxford English Dictionary under “Jehovah”).
¨ “The saying of God, ‘I am who I am,’ is surely connected with His name that is written in the Hebrew consonantal text as Yhwh, the original pronunciation of which is well attested as Yahweh” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 5, page 743).
¨ “Such a conclusion, giving ‘Yahweh’ as the pronunciation of the name, is confirmed by the testimony of the Fathers and gentile writers, where the forms IAO, Yaho, Yaou, Yahouai, and Yahoue appear. Especially important is the statement of Theodoret in relation to Ex. lvi., when he says: ‘the Samaritans call it [the tetragrammaton] ‘Yabe,’ the Jews call it ‘Aia’…” The New Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, “Yahweh,” page 471.
¨ Writings in Biblical Archaeology Review, Professor Anson F. Rainey, professor of Semitic Linguistics at Tel Aviv University, confirms that “Yahweh” is the correct pronunciation: “I mentioned the evidence from Greek papyri found in Egypt. The best of these is Iaouee (London Papyri, xlvi, 446-483). Clement of Alexandria said, “The mystic name which is called the tetragrammaton…is pronounced Iaoue, which means, “Who is, and who shall be.”’
Quote The true pronounciation has not been lost as many believe.
The eminent Encyclopaedia Judaica confirms this, “The true pronunciation of the name YHWH [Yahweh] was never lost. Several early Greek writers of the Christian Church testify that the name was pronounced ‘Yahweh,’” Vol. 7, p.680
Quote This is validated in the Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th Edition: “Early Christian writers, such as Clement of Alexandria in the 2nd century, had used the form Yahweh, thus this pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was never really lost. Greek transcripti
ons also indicated that YHWH should be pronounced Yahweh.” Vol. X, p. 786I think that is enough.
Eliyah C.
So, ya, as I presume he said in the above post, no, we can't be sure that 'Yahweh' is the correct pronunciation.
I don't think you read that very close David, they are admittng the name is “Yahweh “, even Jewish Rabbis.
The Articles also note the origin of the Name ” Jehovah “” started from the 14th century by combinning the TETRA. with Adonia.
Hi David
You wrote
Quote Simple answer: No, we can't be sure. Then why do the Jws even bother to write the name ' Jehovah ' in all their literature, and explain Yahwih in the Appendix of their translation ?
You evidently never payed very much attention to the quotes given by Eliyah C. in his post.
I will quote them here.
Number 1.
Quote Note what the New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) says under “Yahweh”: “Judging from Greek transcriptions of the sacred name, YHWH ought to be pronounced Yahweh. The pronunciation Jehovah was unknown in ancient Jewish circles, and is based upon a later misunderstanding of the scribal practice of using the vowels of the word Adonai with the consonants of YHWH,” p. 1065. Number 2.
Quote In the preface to the Revised Standard Version of the Bible is the following: “The form Jehovah is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. The word ‘Jehovah’ does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew,” pp. 6-7. Number 3.
Quote In the introduction to The Emphasized Bible, editor Joseph Rotherham writes, “The pronunciation Jehovah was unknown until 1520, when it was introduced by Galatinus; but was contested by Le Mercier, J. Drusius, against grammatical and historical propriety.” Rotherham continues his analysis of this ghost word, “Erroneously written and pronounced Jehovah, which is merely a combination of the sacred Tetragrammaton and the vowel in the Hebrew word for Lord, substituted by the Jews for YHWH, because they shrank from pronouncing The Name…To give the name YHWH the vowels of the word for Lord (Heb. Adonai) and pronounce it Jehovah, is about as hybrid a combination as it would be to spell the name Germany with the vowels in the name Portugal –viz., Gormuna” (pp.24-25). Number 4.
Quote The Jewish Encyclopedia says about the name Jehovah, “This name is commonly represented in modern translations by the form ‘Jehovah,’ which, however, is the a philological impossibility…This form has arisen through attempting to pronounce the consonants of the name with the vowels of Adonai…” (p.160). Number 5.
Quote The 15th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, volume 12, p. 995, makes the following comment under the heading “Jehovah”: “The pronunciation ‘Jehovah’ is an error resulting among Christians from combining the consonants Yhwh (Jhvh) with the vowels of ‘adhonay, ‘Lord,’ which the Jews in reading the Scriptures substituted for the sacred name, commonly called the tetragrammaton as containing four consonants…The Rabbinic tradition that after the death of Simeon the Just (fl.290 B.C.) It was no longer pronounced even on these occasions, is contradicted by the well-attested statement that in the last generation before the fall of Jerusalem (A.D. 70) it was uttered so low that the sounds were lost in the chant of the priest. After that event the liturgical use of the name ceased, but the tradition was perpetuated in the Rabbinic schools; it continued also to be employed by healers, exorcists and magicians, and is found on many magical papyri. It is asserted by Philo that only priests might pronounce it and by Josephus that those who knew it were forbidden to divulge it. Finally the Samaritans shared the scruples of the Jews, except that they used it in judicial oaths….The early Christian scholars therefore easily learnt the true pronunciation.”
Number 6.
Quote The Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves admit that “Jehovah” is inferior to “Yahweh.” In their book, Let Your Name Be Sanctified (p.16), they quote the Roman Catholic translator of The Westminster Version of the Sacred Scriptures, saying, “I should have preferred to write ‘Yahwh,’ in which, although not certain, is admittedly superior to ‘Jehovah,’” On page 17 of this same book the Jehovah’s Witnesses write, “In harmony with the practice that had developed among the superstitious, the vowel signs for Elohim or for Adonay were inserted at the accustomed places in the text to warn the Hebrew reader to say those words instead of the divine name. By combining those warning vowel sings with the Tetragrammaton the pronunciation Yahowih and Yehowah were formed.”
Then on page 20 they quote the Lexicon for the Books of the Old Testament, by Koehler and Baumgartner, under the Tetragrammaton: “’The wrong spelling Jehovah (Revised Version: The LORD) occurs since about 1100,’ and then it offers its arguments in favor of Yahweh as ‘the correct and original pronunciation.’”
Then the Watchtower admits.
Quote “While inclining to view the pronunciation ‘Yahweh’ as the more correct way, we have retained the form ‘Jehovah’ because of people’s familiarity with it since the 14th century. This post is written by C.C. Crystal Clear.
hmmmm. I thought he had asked if we could be sure that Yahweh is how the Almighty's name was originally pronounced.
I answered: NO, we can't be. Which we can't be for absolute certain.
Your responce: 'Jehovah isn't right either.' Very nice reasoning.You're right. “Jehovah” is not how God's name was originally pronounced. Nor is “Jesus” how his son's name was prounced. We use English rather than Yahweh and Yeshua, because that is the language we speak.
But, if you look closely, you'll notice the question raised was: “Are you sure Yahweh is the correct pronunciation?”
So wouldn't it make more sence to try to justify the use of that name than to tear down another, and shift the thought away from the question?dave.
Quote You're right. “Jehovah” is not how God's name was originally pronounced. Nor is “Jesus” how his son's name was prounced. We use English rather than Yahweh and Yeshua, because that is the language we speak. David,
If you moved to China, would it be appropriate for the natives to insist that you be called “Lee Ping”, because they don't speak English? If you moved to Saudi Arabia, would it be appropriate for the natives to insist that you be called “Ahmed”, because they speak Arabic? Conversely, when someone from Japan moves here, do you insist on giving him an English name rather than respecting his given name?
Personally, no matter where I am on the planet, my name remains the same. It may be difficult for certain people in certain places to pronounce my English sounding name, but out of courtesy, I would expect them to use the closest approximation to my actual name.
That is the reason why I believe that your deliberate avoidance of “Yahweh” in favor of “Jehovah” is at best an exercise in disrespect for the One whose name you are butchering.
By the way, “Yahweh” is not a Hebrew word. It is an English transliteration of a Hebrew word. That is how native English speakers transfer proper names from a foreign tongue into their own. Why should this principle suddenly be dropped when it comes to the Creator of the universe?
(eg. We respect the Russian sounding name of Mikhail Gorbachev even when he is in an English speaking country rather than insisting that he be called something more English sounding, like “Michael Gordon”.)
So, ya, Brandon, in answer to your question at the beginning of this post, no, we can't be certain how God's name was originally pronounced.
JESUS (YESHUA)
JEREMIAH (FROM YARIMYAH)
Look up Jeremiah at Dictionary.com
masc. proper name, O.T. prophet (see jeremiad) who fl. c.626-586 B.C.E., from Heb. Yarimyah, lit. “may Jehovah exalt.” Latinized as Jeremias; the vernacular form in Eng. was Jeremy.JOSHUA (FROM YEHOSHUA)
Joshua Look up Joshua at Dictionary.com
masc. proper name, biblical successor of Moses, from Heb. Yehoshua, lit. “the Lord is salvation.” Joshua tree (1867) is perhaps so called because its shape compared to pictures of Joshua brandishing a spear (Josh. viii.18).JACOB (HEBREW YAAQOBH)
Jacob Look up Jacob at Dictionary.com
masc. proper name, name of O.T. patriarch, son of Isaac and Rebecca and father of the founders of the twelve tribes, from L.L. Jacobus, from Gk. Iakobos, from Heb. Ya'aqobh, lit. “one that takes by the heel” (Gen. xxviii.12), a derivative of 'aqebh “heel.”What about:
JAAKOBAH
JAALA(H)
JAARE-OREGIM
JAARESHIAH
JAASU
JAAZANIAH
JAAZIAH
JAAZIEL
JABEL
JABESH
JABEZ
JABIN
JABNEEL
ETC,ETC,ETC.David
David,
Just because a mistake is repeated over and over again doesn't make it acceptable. Nearly all modern-day bibles replace YHWH's name with the title LORD – (as if that fact needs to be repeated given Eliyah's presence on this board). Yet, as a JW, you know that that is a mistake that should be corrected. The same goes for all of the names that you listed, as well as many more in scripture, that were changed to have a less “Jewish” sounding name.
However, I am not overly concerned with misrepresenting Yarimyah's or Ya'aqobh's names, as they are mere men, whom I neither worship nor serve. On the contrary, I do concern myself with trying to get the Almighty's name, and the name of His chosen one, as accurately as possible. It's a simple matter of reverence.
How about you? Do you give “Lee-Ping” from China greater respect and courtesy than you give your Maker?
RIGHT ONE SPIRIT,
“””
Quote Personally, no matter where I am on the planet, my name remains the same. It may be difficult for certain people in certain places to pronounce my English sounding name, but out of courtesy, I would expect them to use the closest approximation to my actual name. That is the reason why I believe that your deliberate avoidance of “Yahweh” in favor of “Jehovah” is at best an exercise in disrespect for the One whose name you are butchering.
By the way, “Yahweh” is not a Hebrew word. It is an English transliteration of a Hebrew word. That is how native English speakers transfer proper names from a foreign tongue into their own. Why should this principle suddenly be dropped when it comes to the Creator of the universe?
(eg. We respect the Russian sounding name of Mikhail Gorbachev even when he is in an English speaking country rather than insisting that he be called something more English sounding, like “Michael Gordon”.)
Right, One Spirit
Names are to be correctly and closely “” Transliterated “”, and not ” translated “. I pointed this out before, but evidently it was ignored by some .
You asked “””
Quote Why should this principle suddenly be dropped when it comes to the Creator of the universe? Very good question indeed, and one that I would ask too.
You also said “”
Quote That is the reason why I believe that your deliberate avoidance of “Yahweh” in favor of “Jehovah” is at best an exercise in disrespect for the One whose name you are butchering. And that is in fact what the name ” Jehovah ” does do is butcher His correct name, because it was arrived at by combining YHWH with Adonia meaning lord.
Thanks One Spirit, that is a truthful post you made indeed.
Eliyah C.
“”Why should this principle suddenly be dropped when it comes to the Creator of the universe? “”
Ps. that question of yours should be considered by all the denominations that use the K.J.V., N.I.V.e.t.c.
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Quote On the contrary, I do concern myself with trying to get the Almighty's name, and the name of His chosen one, as accurately as possible. It's a simple matter of reverence. Right, that is MY POINT, and the point that both Peter( Acts 2:21; Acts 4:1-12) and Paul ( Rom.10:13-15) also points out when they quoted ( Joel 2:32)concerning receiving SALVATION too.
I know that we have to live in a pagan world, but are we to also apply those pagan things to the VERY ONE'S who offer us SALVATION, and in worship and reverence to THEM ?
Very true indeed,
One Spirit.E.C.
If you have a “” true Friend “”, then HOW can He be a true ” Friend “, IF you do not know His true Name to call him when you are in need ?
Remember? What a FRIEND we have in…..who ?
This is WHAT I'm hated for on most of the forums, because I point the truth out concerning their true names which one must know to receive true salvation.
Well, people may hate me now, but many will realize later that i did this for their benefit not mine, and the rest will hope they had investigated this further, instead of hating a messenger.
Peter explicitly states, that there is NO SALVATION in any other “” NAME “”, for there is SALVATION in no other name than the correct name of Yahshua( Yeshua modern short), whereby WE MUST BE SAVED( Acts 4:10-12).
People had better realize, that gaining true SALVATION absolutely depends on KNOWING the true Creator Yahweh( Yah- for short, first used in Exod.15:2 by Moses, and Psalms 68:4) and the true Messiah's Name( not titles) of Yahshua( Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; Acts 4:10-12; Rom.10:13-15) for to gain true SALVATION.
How can you get a “” check “” cashed at the bank, IF that Person's TRUE NAME is not on that check ??
Can you believe it ?
Paul asked questions in ( Rom.10:13-15) that the common people have NEVER even heard the TRUE correct Names of the Creator Yahweh and Yahshua( Yeshua) for to even call on in repentance to receive salvation??
Quote 13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of YHWH=Yahweh shall be saved. ( See Joel 2:32 of original text to see the name there).14 How then shall they( the common people) call on him( Yahweh and Yahshua) in whom they have not believed? and how shall they( the common people) believe in him( Yahweh and Yahshua )of whom they have not heard? and how shall they( the common people) hear without a preacher?
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Yes indeed, HOW, when all the common people today have heard is pagan name title deities of all the other nations preached to them?
Please go back and read my Article concerning OLD ELIYAHU( Elijah ) THE PROPHET very carefully again, as this is the same situation and trap that the common people had fell into back then too.
Read ( 1 Kings 18) and when you come to the “” Title “” of CAPITOL “”Lord “” with a CAPITOL ” L ” replace it with the correct name of “” YAHWEH “”, and also replace the ” title ” of ” BAAL ” with “” lord “”, as this is the true Hebrew to English transliteration of those names.
And notice that Old Elijah the Prophet he “” CALLS ON THE NAME OF YAHWEH “”, but the prophets of Baal or lord , call on their deity of “” LORD “” = “” BAAL “”.
Compare that with ( Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; Rom.10:13) of WHOM a person must CALL ON for salvation.
The word ” lord ” means ” baal ” in Hebrew when it is used as a noun name, and that is exactly what has happened in the modern English translations of scripture too, and it breaks and violates ( Exod.20:2-7; Deut.5:7).
Quoted by One Spirit,
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Quote Just because a mistake is repeated over and over again doesn't make it acceptable. Nearly all modern-day bibles replace YHWH's name with the title LORD – (as if that fact needs to be repeated given Eliyah's presence on this board). Yet, as a JW, you know that that is a mistake that should be corrected. The same goes for all of the names that you listed, as well as many more in scripture, that were changed to have a less “Jewish” sounding name. However, I am not overly concerned with misrepresenting Yarimyah's or Ya'aqobh's names, as they are mere men, whom I neither worship nor serve. On the contrary, I do concern myself with trying to get the Almighty's name, and the name of His chosen one, as accurately as possible. It's a simple matter of reverence.
How about you? Do you give “Lee-Ping” from China greater respect and courtesy than you give your Maker?
That's right and my point indeed, I'm not so much concerned with “” All the other men's names “” and not even my own name, but when it comes to the ONE TRUE CREATOR YAHWEH, and the ONE TRUE MESSIAH Yahshua, that is an entirely different matter, as these are THE ONLY TRUE NAMES of the very ONES that we should reverence, and the ONLY Names of the very persons WHO can give true salvation and eternal life.
I was appalled to find this out years ago, and I still am today, that THEIR TRUE NAMES were covered up, which denies people even the opportunity of receiving true salvation, and to really know them personally in our minds and hearts.
In the scriptures names are persons very charactor and being which is the very person, and to remove a person's name, is to remove the very person themself completely.
Check the scriptural examples of thee above, you will see that i'm not lying, for if the name of the person is extinguished, then so was the person too.
Check out “” I will not blot out his name “”, for to blot out the person's name, is to also blot out the person too.
Will people keep on “” blotting out the true Creator and Messiah's true Names””, for IF you do, then do you want your ” name ” to be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life too?
For He said, “” If you confess MY NAME “”, but He NEVER said “” If you confess my titles”” did He?
Very nice posts ONE SPIRIT.
I find it quite interesting that Brandon's question has for the most part been ignored.
One Spirit wrote:
“Personally, no matter where I am on the planet, my name remains the same. It may be difficult for certain people in certain places to pronounce my English sounding name, but out of courtesy, I would expect them to use the closest approximation to my actual name.”I responded by simply showing you that, no names don't remain the same. Perhaps they should. But they don't seem too. I really have wondered about this. Why do all those Hebrew names that started with the “Y” sound now have the “J” sound?
On a side point, did you know that I have a chinese name? I've mentioned it before. It's Bon Jung. It literally means: leader of the class or team. Since we go and talk to people on the street or wherever, I know a lot of chinese people that have recently come to Canada. They tend to pick new names, like “Dream,” or “Roger.” I know this has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I had a few friends that were learning chinese so they could share the good news of the kingdom more easily with the mandarin chinese in the area.
Wo sur shun jing low shur. [spelt badly] (literally, “I am a holy classic book old master,” or “I am a Bible teacher.”)
OneSpirit, I'm wondering if you refer to Jeremiah as Yarimyah? I'm wondering how all those names I listed and the many more I didn't come to have a “J” instead of a “Y.”And, I'm wondering if anyone out there can answer Brandon's actual question on the original pronunciation of God's name. Are we certain it was Yahweh?
Also, consider when Paul and Barnabas was talking about the Miracles done by Yahweh in..
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Quote (Acts 15:14-17) 14 Simeon hath declared how Yah( El) at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: ( See Amos 9:11)
17That the residue of men might seek after Yahweh, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith Yahweh, who doeth all these things.
( See in original texts the Name of YAHWEH=YHWH in Amos 9:12 that this is quoted from.)Well, how could Yah take out a people from among the Gentiles OF WHOM HIS NAME OF YAHWEH IS CALLED if the Gentiles did not know and hear His name declared and taught to them by the Desciples?
Another question, Why do ye think that Yahshua Messiah and All the Desciples were hated for His Name's sake( See Matt.24:9) by most people and the religious establishment in their day?
Why do ye think that most of the forums and Administrators on the internet hate me too?
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