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Quote Posted: Nov. 16 2006,21:36 ——————————————————————————–
Hi Nick,He is a priest as a man born of Mary, true man from true women…..he became a true priest…
If only the simple logic applied to his most important nature…. the *ONLY* true Son of God….true God from true Father. Not a part of the created realm but true Son!
The Father and Son are *ONE* scripture says this in every way possible!
To deny the Son is to deny the Father, it is to insult the Fatherhood of the Father to say that his Son’s nature is any different to the Fathers *own self*
After all if you could Father a Son without the aid from a woman, i.e from your very own chromosomes, DNA and genome…. He would be the exact image of you!
Now if your Son humbled himself from the form he existed with you to do something totally amazing and you had the power to glorify him back to the form he previously shared with you….would you do it?? Especially if he humbled himself to glorify you?The babes should be able to reveal WHAT the Son is, if the Father has in fact revealed the Son to them.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, AND HAST REVEALED THEM UNTO BABES.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 FOR MY YOKE IS EASY, AND MY BURDEN IS LIGHT.Or is he just a man…
Is it good enough to believe Yahshua **IS JUST A PRIEST***…..Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM FROM ABOVE: ye are of this world; I AM NOT OF THIS WORLD.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, THAT YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS.Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 BUT WHOSOEVER SHALL DENY ME BEFORE MEN, HIM WILL I ALSO DENY BEFORE MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.Blessings
Praise Jesus! SS How true and wonderfull is his word! It shines bright in the darkness dispelling all that is false!
Quote Moment of Truth. To HIM who sits on the Throne: Rev 5: 8 The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. [/b]And they do not rest day or night, saying:
“Holy,* holy, holy,
Lord God Almighty,
Who was and is and is to come!”9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and CAST THEIR CROWNS BEFORE THE THRONE, SAYING:
11 “You are worthy, *O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For YOU CREATED ALL THINGS,
And BY YOUR WILL THEY EXIST AND WERE CREATED.”To the Lamb:
Rev 5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made *us kings* and priests to our God;
And *we shall reign on the earth.”
…Rev 5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made *us kings* and priests to our God;
And *we shall reign on the earth.”11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:
“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”To Both the Father and the Son: And please note WHO IT IS that is said to actually sit on the Throne, who has ownership and the preeminence in all contexts:
Cubes!
You are not far from the truth my brother! At least you admit that Jesus is A God! However do you not think that Jesus is on the throne! Do you think that he will cease to be on the throne at anytime!
The scriptures that you mention are to the Father and the Son who are one. We worship one God in Jesus! We have one Lord in Jesus, we have one faith in Jesus, there is no other way to the Father> The Father said here ye Him! When he appears you will see Jesus in all of the Glory of the Father with the Holy angels. If you are looking for God the Father then you will only see him in Jesus who is the express image of the Father! They are One!
Hello.
Do you believe what this scripture says?
2 Corinthians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,Nick,
Truly, very FEW use the scripture you posted.The branches serve the vine which serves the Gardener. The branches thus serve the Gardener
Cubes,
Please forgive……..I wanted to thank you for your welcome note, blessings to you and yours.WJ,
Thank you also for the welcome note, my apologies for not responding to your post any earlier.
You
Quote I’m sure if they knew who he was they would have!
It hadn’t been revealed by the Father yet!Then bring forth what is written in Mat 28.16, and John 9.35-38 (btw, one of my favorite books) Wonderful scripture is it not.
Now, let us go to
Luk 7:44 And having turned unto the woman, he said to Simon, `Seest thou this woman? I entered into thy house; water for my feet thou didst not give, but this woman with tears did wet my feet, and with the hairs of her head did wipe;
Luk 7:45 a kiss to me thou didst not give, but this woman, from what time I came in, did not cease kissing my feet;
Luk 7:46 with oil my head thou didst not anoint, but this woman with ointment did anoint my feet;
Luk 7:47 therefore I say to thee, her many sins have been forgiven, because she did love much; but to whom little is forgiven, little he doth love.'This woman knew who the Messiah was, is this worship or reverence?
A disciple, laid his head upon the Messiah, is this worship or comfort?
Messiah Christ, taught us that there is one to be bowed down to and worship.
Messiah Christ, rebuke the liar on the mount, due to this. Remember Christ words………At this time in my walk, I cannot respond to John 20.28, which by no means changes the truth, which is Messiah Christ, was not the Father Almighty in the flesh. But let’s move on, shall we.
I would refer you to John 5, it is entirety, if you choose to study it.
You stated that,
Quote If you accept the whole council of God, all of the scriptures as they are written, then you will see that the 3 in 1 best describes the Godhead! I have never fell for that egg, water theory that some used to describe this false trinity doctrine, you would think man would just take the word for what it is and go w/ it, but man needs to step in and take the spirit’s place………
And there are many forms of scripture, I cannot respond to “whole council of God', due to I do not know what scripture translation you use. I have many, do compare and most importantly, ask for the truth.
You state:
Quote So if I understand your interpretation of Rom 1:25 That would mean that we serve Jesus and the Holy Spirit more than God the Father? Now, let's make sure 'we' is understood, is this me or you?
If it is me, then no that is not what I have been taught.Now, if it is you, then my answer would be yes.
You state:
Quote Umm! Don’t think that is Possible! Once again, if 'we' is me, then I agree. But if it is you, then I suggest you re-read and re-write your post.
Blessings to you also WJ, (even though you aviator gives me the creeps)
Hi W,.
What do you make of the anointing of the Christ in the Jordan?
Why would he need to be anointed at all if he already was God with all his own powers?
Acts 10
” 38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 17 2006,11:27) Quote Hi WJ, What according to the scriptures is the main job of a priest or a highpriest? How can you say then that it is God who came in the flesh…
How is God his own son and Father, his own highpriest and God? His own sacrificial lamb and the one to whom spiritual sacrifices are made? Isn't it much easier to conclude then that bottomline, “the earth is YHWH's and all the fullness thereof!” He owns the cattle on a thousand hills… and we together with Jesus belong to him?
Hey Cubes!
You confuse the Diety of Christ who is the Word that is with God and who is God, with Jesus manhood! I and my Father are one!
Hi WJ,
1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Is Christ Divided? the same question that Paul asks can be applied to the questions which I have asked you?Was GOD crucified and raised to life for us or was it his son, etc? (John 3:16f). His son, of course. So how say you that Jesus is the one true God who sent his son and furthermore raised him from the dead? Remember we have only one God and he is not divided.
Paul is not Jesus (even though he was serving Jesus), and likewise our Lord is not the GOD whom he serves as highpriest.
—-
Is Jesus A God? Surely (Hebrews 1:8-9) but a God who is subject to the Most High God. Jesus is whoever God says that he is and in this case he is Lord of all but the Father is greater. Were the Trinity true, I'd wholeheartedly subscribe to it and defend it. But alas! it is an old but foreign, bold and clever lie that has nothing to do with the God of the scriptures or his Christ. That is, if one concludes that the True God is other than the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote Hello. Do you believe what this scripture says?
2 Corinthians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,t8
Yes I do believe the word as it reads! Praise God!
Read my post above it!
Here Ill copy it a again see if it lines up with the scripture you just read!
I said “The scriptures that you mention are to the Father and the Son who are one. We worship one God in Jesus! We have one Lord in Jesus, we have one faith in Jesus, there is no other way to the Father> The Father said here ye Him! When he appears you will see Jesus in all of the Glory of the Father with the Holy angels. If you are looking for God the Father then you will only see him in Jesus who is the express image of the Father! They are One!”
I chalenge you to show me where this quote is unscriptural.
Quote WJ, Thank you also for the welcome note, my apologies for not responding to your post any earlier.
YouQuote
I’m sure if they knew who he was they would have!
It hadn’t been revealed by the Father yet!Then bring forth what is written in Mat 28.16, and John 9.35-38 (btw, one of my favorite books) Wonderful scripture is it not.
Now, let us go to
Luk 7:44 And having turned unto the woman, he said to Simon, `Seest thou this woman? I entered into thy house; water for my feet thou didst not give, but this woman with tears did wet my feet, and with the hairs of her head did wipe;
Luk 7:45 a kiss to me thou didst not give, but this woman, from what time I came in, did not cease kissing my feet;
Luk 7:46 with oil my head thou didst not anoint, but this woman with ointment did anoint my feet;
Luk 7:47 therefore I say to thee, her many sins have been forgiven, because she did love much; but to whom little is forgiven, little he doth love.'This woman knew who the Messiah was, is this worship or reverence?
A disciple, laid his head upon the Messiah, is this worship or comfort?
Messiah Christ, taught us that there is one to be bowed down to and worship.
Messiah Christ, rebuke the liar on the mount, due to this. Remember Christ words………At this time in my walk, I cannot respond to John 20.28, which by no means changes the truth, which is Messiah Christ, was not the Father Almighty in the flesh. But let’s move on, shall we.
I would refer you to John 5, it is entirety, if you choose to study it.
You stated that,
Quote
If you accept the whole council of God, all of the scriptures as they are written, then you will see that the 3 in 1 best describes the Godhead!I have never fell for that egg, water theory that some used to describe this false trinity doctrine, you would think man would just take the word for what it is and go w/ it, but man needs to step in and take the spirit’s place………
And there are many forms of scripture, I cannot respond to “whole council of God', due to I do not know what scripture translation you use. I have many, do compare and most importantly, ask for the truth.
You state:
Quote
So if I understand your interpretation of Rom 1:25 That would mean that we serve Jesus and the Holy Spirit more than God the Father?Now, let's make sure 'we' is understood, is this me or you?
If it is me, then no that is not what I have been taught.Now, if it is you, then my answer would be yes.
You state:
Quote
Umm! Don’t think that is Possible!Once again, if 'we' is me, then I agree. But if it is you, then I suggest you re-read and re-write your post.
Blessings to you also WJ, (even though you aviator gives me the creeps)
Hi Olive!
I appoligise, I did not realise I was in the company of hostility! So when I say “we”, I mean those who hold to the belief that the Father Son and Holy Spirit are one God!
You use some very wonderful scriptures that prove my point!
In all the places that you see Jesus being worshiped he never once discouraged it nor pointed any one to the Father. Now since we know that Jesus new the commandments concerning “Loving the Lord Thy God and **HIM ONLY SHALT THOU SERVE**. Then those who were giving this kind of homage and honour and servitude to Jesus were breaking this commandment, that is if we believe that to worship Christ was unscriptural. Further more this would also make Jesus a sinner for recieving such worship! But since we know this cant be true….
By the way this kind of act was not seen toward anyone else except the heathen, false gods or idols, in scripture including Angels, and where it happened, if the one who was being worshipped was a Godly person they pointed them to God.
Surely the writers of the scriptures inspired by the Holy Spirit would have witnessed Jesus somewhere rebuking men for worshipping him! Or turning their hearts to the Father!
But if this is not enough evidence then how about the greek word for worship which is,proskuneo {pros-koo-neh'-o}
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
Sounds much like what was happening in those scriptures you mentioned!
While it is true that this kind of act could be and was performed toward men, Idols and false gods, not so with the followers of Jesus!
Jesus and the writers inspired by the Holy Spirit knew exactly what this word “proskuneo” Meant. In fact Jesus in John 4 tells us that we must “proskuneo” God in spirit and in truth!
Even Satan understood what it meant.
Matt 4:9,10 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship “proskuneo” me.”Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship “proskuneo” the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”So If God the Father tells us in his Word “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.”
And we have example after example where this took place without rebuke or correction, and more than that knowing who Jesus is, the express image of the Father exalted high above the heavens and given a name above every name and that at that Name of Jesus every Knee shall bow and every tongue confess that he Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God the Father, then should I not obey the Father and give Jesus the Glory and honour that is due his name and yes “proskuneo” him.
Please show me where this is unscriptural.
I repeat a previous post….
“The Father commanded the Angels to worship the Son after his incarnation so he would not leave us in doubt of the nature of who this Jesus is!
He is the eternal Word that came out of the bosum of the Father and was manifest to us showing us who the invisible God is! God has revealed himself to us through the Son and requires no less worship and honour and praise to him. For he is one with Him in substance, in essence and in Glory and power and all of who he the Father is! All the fullness of the GodHead dwells in the Born Son of God bodily and you should know that when God the Father returns in Jesus in all of his Glory that every eye shall see Not The Father the invisible God, But Jesus by whom he has made himself visible! And at that time all of creation shall do homage to him bowing the knee of things in Heaven and things in earth and things under the earth and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God the Father the invisible God! Jesus said that he will return to this earth with the Holy Angels in all of his Fathers Glory! If you are looking for the Father God you will only see Jesus, for he is the express image of the Father!”
Please show me where the above is unscriptural, and dont Just throw me Jn 4 for I have already shown that Jesus used the same word that was being practiced on him!
Quote Hi w,
Unity is not ONENESS of being.
Oneness of being is not UNITY.Nick!
Read it again! Ididnt deny either the Father or the Sons existance!
Quote Hi W,.
What do you make of the anointing of the Christ in the Jordan?
Why would he need to be anointed at all if he already was God with all his own powers?
Acts 10
” 38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”Nick! Good scriptures! But I think you are confusing the deity of Christ and the humanity of Christ!
He was both was he not?
Hi W,
Individual scriptures that do not say God is a trinity cannot prove that He is. Listen to what IS taught by the servants of God rather than searching between the lines for imagined evidence that the teaching of men has validity. We do not follow them.Hi W,
The Son emptied himself and partook of flesh to be just as we are.
Scripture does not call him a deity.
He is a vessel for God.
It says that fullness of deity was not AS HIM but IN HIM.Col 2.9
” 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form”Col 1.19
“19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,”Do you think he did not empty himself but came in his own powers??
Hi W,
I await your response to the relevance of the anointing of the Son in the Jordan.If he was God why would he be anointed?
What further powers or authority could anointing give God?
The greater blesses the lesser so how could he be equal with the God who anointed him with His Spirit?Acts 10
“38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”
Hi,
Acts 10.38 shows us that God is the Father.
He is the God of Jesus and our God.
He is no democratic trinity god.
He anoints His sons with His own Spirit uniting them in Christ with Himself.Quote Hi W,
The Son emptied himself and partook of flesh to be just as we are.
Scripture does not call him a deity.
He is a vessel for God.
It says that fullness of deity was not AS HIM but IN HIM.Col 2.9
” 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form”Col 1.19
“19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,”Do you think he did not empty himself but came in his own powers??
Hi Nick
So by your statement above do I take that to mean that when the Son, The Word, God(lessor God),emptied himself that he ceased to be a lessor God when he was born in human flesh?
So the Word is No longer deity?
Quote Posted: Nov. 18 2006,08:19 ——————————————————————————–
Hi W,
Individual scriptures that do not say God is a trinity cannot prove that He is. Listen to what IS taught by the servants of God rather than searching between the lines for imagined evidence that the teaching of men has validity. We do not follow them.Hi Nick
I am a servant of God too, and think I will listen to the Comforter which is the Holy Spirit to teach me and guide me into all truth!
Quote Hi W,
I await your response to the relevance of the anointing of the Son in the Jordan.If he was God why would he be anointed?
What further powers or authority could anointing give God?
The greater blesses the lesser so how could he be equal with the God who anointed him with His Spirit?Acts 10
“38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”
Hi Nick.
Was Jesus a man also?
I have a riddle for you Nick.
Luke 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.Based on the birth of John the Baptist. Was Jesus filled with the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb?
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