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T8. Don't get too excited with your one true God verse.
Read the following.The person who raises this question is obviously assuming Unitarianism, that there is only one Person who is God (namely the Father), and then imposes this assumption onto the reading of the text. The only thing one has to do in order to understand Jesus’ point here is to simply read the entire context:
“After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: ‘Father, the time has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people THAT HE MIGHT GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN … For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me … All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come TO ME through them. I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name – the name you gave me – so that they may be one as we are one … My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be IN US so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I IN THEM and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me BECAUSE YOU LOVED ME BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them AND THAT I MYSELF MAY BE IN THEM.’” John 17:1-5, 8, 10-11, 20-26
We note from the foregoing that:
Jesus is God’s Son.
Jesus gives eternal life to all that God gives him, which is a claim to being absolute Deity since only God can give eternal life.
Jesus existed in glory with the Father even before the world was created.
Jesus demands to be glorified by God, something which no mere creature could ever demand.
Jesus states that everything that the Father has belongs to him, which makes him the heir of everything that exists.
Jesus indwells all the believers, an indication that Christ is omnipresent and therefore God since God alone is omnipresent.
Jesus is the object of the Father’s love even before the creation of the world.
Thus, the context makes it clear that Jesus’ statement about the Father being the only true God in no way was meant to deny that Christ is God as well, since he goes on to make claims that only God could make. Jesus is simply addressing the Father for being the only true God since this is what he truly is, and yet we know from the same Bible that the only true God exists as more than one Person. The Holy Scriptures plainly show that both the Son and the Holy Spirit are also truly God.Therefore, since the one true God exists as a Godhead this means that the three Persons can be addressed as the only true God both individually and collectively. Putting it another way:
The Godhead is the only true God.
Each specific member of the Godhead is the only true God.
Therefore, the members of the Godhead are the only true God, whether individually or collectively.
This is why Jesus can speak of one member of the Godhead as the only true God without this implying that the other members are not God. To make this point more clear, notice what the inspired book of Hebrews says:“But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.’ He also says, ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.’” Hebrews 1:8-12
The Father praises his Son by calling him God, Lord, eternal King and for being the Creator and Sustainer of all creation! The same Scriptures teach that Jesus is the only sovereign Master and Lord:
“For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” Jude 1:4
Now does this mean that the Father is not God, sovereign Master, Lord, and the Creator of the heavens and the earth? The answer is obvious. The Father, according to the Holy Bible, is just as much God, Master, Lord, and just as responsible for creating and sustaining the universe as the Son is. In a similar way, the Son glorifying his Father as the only true God doesn’t mean that Christ was denying that he is full Deity as well.
In fact, a careful reading of John 17:3 helps to further confirm that Jesus wasn’t denying his absolute Deity:
“And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, AND (kai) Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”
The Lord Jesus, by using the Greek conjunction kai in his prayer, makes himself the necessary object of the knowledge that leads to eternal life. In other words, Jesus basically made himself a coequal partner with God by claiming that eternal life is dependent on knowing both the Father and the Son. As one commentary noted:
and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent–This is the only place where our Lord gives Himself this compound name, afterwards so current in apostolic preaching and writing. Here the terms are used in their strict signification—”JESUS,” because He “saves His people from their sins”; “CHRIST,” as anointed with the measureless fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of His saving offices “WHOM THOU HAST SENT,” in the plenitude of Divine Authority and Power, to save. “The very juxtaposition here of Jesus Christ with the Father is a proof, by implication, of our Lord's Godhead. The knowledge of God and a creature could not be eternal life, and such an association of the one with the other would be inconceivable” [ALFORD]. (Jamieson & Fausset & Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible; online source; bold and underline emphasis ours)
The late renowned Bible expositor John Gill stated:
… The Arians and Unitarians urge this text, against the true and proper deity of our Lord Jesus, and his equality with the Father, but without success; since the Father is called the only true God, in opposition to the many false gods of the Heathens, but not to the exclusion of the Son or Spirit; for Christ is also styled the one Lord, and only Lord God, but not to the exclusion of the Father.
Hi CB
You say
“Jesus gives eternal life to all that God gives him, which is a claim to being absolute Deity since only God can give eternal life.”Not so.
Useless logicJn 5
” 21″For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.”1Jn 5
” 11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.”
“Jesus indwells all the believers, an indication that Christ is omnipresent and therefore God since God alone is omnipresent. “
There is no scripture that says God is omnipresent. That is a human derivation. God is in heaven and that is where Jesus told us to pray to Him. His Spirit is present among His Creation[acts 17]
Your statement about Christ could only be true if believers are everywhere. Are they? Again it is the Spirit of God that joins the believers to Christ and to God.” Jesus is simply addressing the Father for being the only true God since this is what he truly is, and yet we know from the same Bible that the only true God exists as more than one Person. “
Your argument is with God here.
“Therefore, since the one true God exists as a Godhead this means that the three Persons can be addressed as the only true God both individually and collectively. Putting it another way:
The Godhead is the only true God.
Each specific member of the Godhead is the only true God.
Therefore, the members of the Godhead are the only true God, whether individually or collectively.
This is why Jesus can speak of one member of the Godhead as the only true God without this implying that the other members are not God”
Useless greek logic . Human doctrines dressed up as truth.Hi CB,
You say
“Now does this mean that the Father is not God, sovereign Master, Lord, and the Creator of the heavens and the earth? The answer is obvious. The Father, according to the Holy Bible, is just as much God, Master, Lord, and just as responsible for creating and sustaining the universe as the Son is. In a similar way, the Son glorifying his Father as the only true God doesn’t mean that Christ was denying that he is full Deity as well.”
No .
Christ is appointed LORD of all creation by God.
That does not make him into God any more than Joseph became Pharaoh by being given full authority by Pharaoh. And he gives back the kingdom to God1cor 15
” 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
“In other words, Jesus basically made himself a coequal partner with God by claiming that eternal life is dependent on knowing both the Father and the Son”
No.
God gave him authority and he who is given authority is not equal to Him who gave it. He chose not to seek equality according to Phil 2.Quote Hi W,
Ps 2
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”NH
Monogenes does not mean created or begining!
Quote Hi W. I didn't anywhere say that everything Catholics believe are wrong because they are Catholics.
They most definitely do believe in the trinity. Yet isn't it interesting that they have to acknowledge these things. You say that the trinity is taught in scripture. BUt history I believe acknowledges that it took a couple hundred years to formulate that thought.
You say we apostasized in this. But I remember no discussion in the scriptures about a trinity. There are only supposed hints at it. Why?David
The most accurate and truest form of history is the Holy Scripture.
Many Godly men have spent thier lives and even died to bring us the scriptures that we have today.
Our faith and doctrine is based on scripture not on mens recorded history which much of could be second hand or heresay.
Those who hold a trinitarian view hold it because we believe it best describes the Godhead taking all of the scriptures in account.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2006,20:54) Quote Hi W,
Ps 2
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”NH
Monogenes does not mean created or begining!
Hi W,
Quite so.
Monogenes has a special meaning but Ps 2 does not use Monogenes but speaks of the begettal of the Monogenes son.Quote “The everlasting Father, “ Is Jesus the Everlasting Father Cult Buster?
Yes or No will do.
Sscott
Why not.
I Cor 4:15-17
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have **begotten** you through the gospel.
Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my **beloved son**, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every churchQuote Hi W,
Quite so.
Monogenes has a special meaning but Ps 2 does not use Monogenes but speaks of the begettal of the Monogenes son.NH
That was a prophesy for the Son, he wasnt the Son yet. He was born and then begotten!
Hi W,
That is an opinion. Can you substantiate it?
He was
born
then
begotten?
But the Monogenes Son was sent into the world[1Jn 4]Quote Labels come in so handy. By labeling others one no longer has to try to understand their view or search the scriptures. Sscott
Then why didnt you say something like this to the Arians for their constant use of the label Trinitarian?
Quote Hi W,
That is an opinion. Can you substantiate it?
He was
born
then
begotten?
But the Monogenes Son was sent into the world[1Jn 4]NH
Jesus was the Word that was with God who became flesh and was born the Son.
Matt 1
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Quote Quote
Hi W,
Ps 2
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”NH
Monogenes does not mean created or begining!
NH
Besides Pss 2 in its context shows that the sons begettal was after his being enthroned.
6] Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2006,21:42) Quote Labels come in so handy. By labeling others one no longer has to try to understand their view or search the scriptures. Sscott
Then why didnt you say something like this to the Arians for their constant use of the label Trinitarian?
I don't know anyone on here that labels their self as an Arian. There are people on here who label their self as Trinitarians.Hi W,
You say
“Jesus was the Word that was with God who became flesh and was born the Son.”But scripture speaks of a Father who snds his beloved Son into his vineyard and in 1Jn 4
” 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. “
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2006,21:55) Quote Quote
Hi W,
Ps 2
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”NH
Monogenes does not mean created or begining!
NH
Besides Pss 2 in its context shows that the sons begettal was after his being enthroned.
6] Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Hi W,
Ps 2 speaks of the revolt of the earthly kings at the end of the 1000yr reignRev 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
Surely you do not relate the context of his begettal to that time??
Quote I don't know anyone on here that labels their self as an Arian. There are people on here who label their self as Trinitarians. Sscott
I dont label myself anything except being a Born again child of God.
I believe the trinitarian view best describes the Godhead in light of all scripture. But there may be, and Im sure ther is some trinitarians that may not believe just as I do.
You will find that also to be true for some on this sight that take an Arian view or dirivative of the Arian view which is basically that Jesus is not God.
They still disagree on many things. So I dont like labels either but if you are gonna give me one, I would rather be identified with Trinitarians.
Quote Hi W,
Ps 2 speaks of the revolt of the earthly kings at the end of the 1000yr reignRev 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
Surely you do not relate the context of his begettal to that time??
NH
And surely its not speaking of the begettal before the birth of Jesus is it?
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