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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,11:04) Since it doesn't do any good to repeat oneself over and over again to someone who has closed their ears, then maybe if I speak to this cyber wall the vibrations may get through! We are not under the Old Covenant any longer!
We are under a New Covenant!
Now show me where Jesus who introduced the New Covenant incited his followers to commit violence in any form against humanity? Then show us if any of his followers carried out any acts of violence!
Shall we say STRAWMAN!
WJ
All of these things have already been shown to you. It is as if you are going back twenty posts and answering as if they had never happened.Romans, Jeremiah, the long list in WIT's post, and Matthew Williams and his brother, Tyler are what you seem to be ignoring.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 14 2009,19:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,11:04) Since it doesn't do any good to repeat oneself over and over again to someone who has closed their ears, then maybe if I speak to this cyber wall the vibrations may get through! We are not under the Old Covenant any longer!
We are under a New Covenant!
Now show me where Jesus who introduced the New Covenant incited his followers to commit violence in any form against humanity? Then show us if any of his followers carried out any acts of violence!
Shall we say STRAWMAN!
WJ
All of these things have already been shown to you. It is as if you are going back twenty posts and answering as if they had never happened.Romans, Jeremiah, the long list in WIT's post, and Matthew Williams and his brother, Tyler are what you seem to be ignoring.
Stuart
StuNo, this has not been answered!
“Now show me where Jesus who introduced the New Covenant incited his followers to commit violence in any form against humanity? Then show us if any of his followers carried out any acts of violence!”
Wit
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 11 2009,15:52) Can you see how that might produce slightly more biased results than a real scientific poll of random adults throughout all demographics in society?
No I can't see how you would think that just because we are Christians that you assume that we are being biased about gays approching us for sex.In fact I find it rather amazing that not you nor Stu has said one word like I am sorry that happened to you. But instead we get this persecution for standing up against their lifestyles.
Do you think the statistics would look better in a homosexual environment where these acts are practiced freely and accepted by adults, than in an envirement where Christians were brought up to believe the gay acts were sin?
Why are you guys so defending of their lifestyles. We have already explained they can do as they please, but don't expect us to accept it or try and influence me or my kids to it.
We have already said that they have a right to preach as they want and we have the same right.
Yet you guys can only find it in yourselves to accuse us of hate, when in fact we have said love the sinner and hate the sin.
As a victom of 4 gay men comming on to me between the ages of 12-16, I resent your mean spirited attitudes and constant harrasment and calling me names like homophobe etc because I hate what they represent but not who they are!
So continue to have at it! But get of your high horse and quit kidding yourself, you are no better than I!
WJ
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 12 2009,07:20) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 11 2009,13:50) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 11 2009,06:44) Both of these polls are very unscientific, and thus worthless. It is not a poll taken randomly from a large population of both males and females, and judging by the thread participation, only males are voting here. How many girls were approached by an older male? Better statistics done elsewhere show no correlation with homosexuality and sexual predation.
Hi KejonnI think you are wrong.
Because the poll being in small numbers with the results that are so far stagaring to say the least.
Imagine if the big numbers were done here what it might show.
Your logic seems to be like a man digging up a shovel of dirt and finding a couple of precious jewels is not a good indication that there are more jewels in the area.
WJ
WJ, just do the reasearch man. Scientific research into this has shown that there is no correlation between homosexuality and sexual predation.
KejonnI apreciate your Spirit. I do not know if there is any studies to show between the ages 12-16 the difference in Heterasexual male predators and Homosexual.
All I know is what happened to me in a short 4 year period and what these tiny little poles show and to me that is significant!
WJ
Hi All
Here is a site I ran across that spells out the gay agenda pretty well. Guess what, it is a gay site!
The Gay Agenda
Gay men and lesbians should marry one another, and extol each other every tangible and intangible benefit the institution provides. They cannot stop gay marriage as long as gays are marrying. If you are gay and single without a desire to marry, marry a homosexual of the opposite sex anyway, and donate any marriage credits the government may offer to any gay organization seeking to destroy heterosexual norms.
Once benefits are secured, divorce. Wreck the sanctity of the institution by driving up the divorce rates from the current 52% to at least 80%.
Remember 52% of marriages end in divorce, the remaining 48% in death. There's nothing sanctimonious about that. Demand the institution and then wreck it. James Dobson was right about our evil intentions. We just plan to be quicker than he thought.
Get a gun and learn how to shoot. It's as much about arming bears as it is bearing arms. If you think you're protected by the Constitution, think again. If they don't allow you to marry, the next amendment will be to deny gays guns.
Reclaim Jesus. He was a Jewish queer to begin with, and don't let anyone forget it.
BAN DIVORCE. If the institution is so in need of protection, seek a constitutional amendment to ban divorce. One marriage, once.
Normalize – Thwart fashion and style sense inclinations so that homophobes cannot separate you from straights. Gay vague my ass. Make it gay impossible to tell.
Hate Crime laws are just the beginning. Once those are passed either federally or in all 50 states, begin campaign to eliminate homophobia entirely.
Like “Don't Ask, Don't Tell,” thoughts or words equal conduct. Homophobic inclinations alone, even without any actions, should be criminal and punishable to the full extent of the law.
Penetrate the sperm banks to perpetuate the gene. Although the nature vs. nurture debate rages on, ensure that as many vials of semen contain gay genes.
Lie about your sexual orientation when giving blood. Screening of blood is either effective or not. If a celibate gay's blood is more dangerous than that of sexually promiscuous heterosexual, the problem is in the screening process, not the orientation of the donor. Faggot blood is God's blood.
Alternatively, set up blood banks for gay blood only. For us fags by us fags (FUFBUF).
Become surrogate mothers or males donate sperm to lesbian couples. If children of gays are to be put up for adoption, stipulate that heterosexuals are unfit for parenting such children, no matter how sad or desperate they may be.
If you are HIV positive, engage in unprotected sex with pedophile priests and pastors. We have enough recruits from Christian schools and the military without us having to house perverts cloaked in religion. There's the Catholic Church for that.
Tithe. Make sure that gay representation permeates every level of governance.
Sneak gay subtext into every book, movie, video game, TV show or other media that you have access to. Nothing like subliminal messaging to equate queerness with Godliness. (Don't forget, they catch the obvious ones like Spongebob and Tinky Winky, but they'll miss Bart or Freddie from Grand Theft Auto because they're too well hidden. Don't worry, their badly parented, unsupervised kids will know it when they see it).
Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians etc. are fundamentally the same. Don't pledge allegiance to any one party. Make all parties grovel for your vote, not take it for granted.
Ensure that you preserve DNA samples to be used for cloning purposes if necessary.
Join the military and rise in the ranks (as has always been the case). When enough gay servicemembers come out en masse it will force the military to drop their outdated policy, and admit that probably 25% or more only happen to shoot straight.
Ensconce yourself in virulently homophobic organizations like the Boy Scouts and Southern Baptists or Concerned Women for America. The more indispensable homos they have in their fold, the more hypocritical their ultimate exposure. And any bad behavior can simply be blamed on their organizations.
If you're a sick pedophile, join the Catholic Church. They'll be good to you and shelter you like they always have.
Recruit straight men and women. We're accused of it anyway, so we may as well give the accusation legs. And remember, when push comes to shove, a six-pack or a joint goes a long way.
If you're male, give Concerned Women for America a raison d'être by fucking their husbands, sons and fathers. And of course, you dykes will know exactly what to do with their daughters. At least those that aren't already teaching us in our beds.
Bombard the Federal Communications Commission any time anything remotely offensive to gay people appears on the airwaves. Homophobia is indecent, and our children must be sheltered from it. They want to regulate decency. Let's keep them really, really busy.
Create facilities that recondition homophobic deviancy. Certain religious groups have attempted to “straighten” gay children. If their assertions are correct, children exercising homophobic tendencies can be corrected using electro-therapy.
Turn eradicating homophobia and encouraging the gay lifestyle from a cottage industry into a multi-billion dollar cash cow.
Turn “Heather has a Mommy and a Daddy. Don't Blame it on Her” into a best seller.
Most gay children are born of heterosexual parents. If they want to eradicate homosexuality, vasectomies and hysterectomies are fabulously effective. Safer than condoms and abstinence!
Some are still attempting to define homosexuality as a disease. Let them move forward. Once passed in any region — local, state or federal — take full advantage of employment protection legislation and related compliance including Medicaid and workers compensation. They can call us names but it's going to cost them. Big.
Until marriage is equal, heterosexuals should be forbidden from wearing wedding rings in public. The blatant flaunting of their sexuality is inappropriate, and we don't need our children conjuring up penises and vaginas every time they spot a wedding ring. Gay marriage would neutralize that consequence.
Heterosexual public displays of affection can be confusing for gay kids. There should be no hugging or physical touch between heterosexuals in public places. Brief handshakes or a brief affirmative hand on a shoulder is okay.
Any literature or educational material in any school or public library should display warnings if they contain heterosexual content.
The Tinky Defense – San Francisco Supervisor, Dan White, blamed Twinkies for murdering gay Supervisor, Harvey Milk and Mayor, George Moscone. It worked. If you happen to kill a heterosexual, simply blame Jerry Falwell's Tinky Winky obsession as the reason. You were purple with rage.
Any homophobic persons, even former homophobes that have been rehabilitated, should be required to register using the same model as child molesters. There should be strict limitations pertaining to their proximity to any gay bars, clubs, gyms or institutions that are predominantly gay. Parents of gay children need to be aware of the dangers such individuals present, and should be aware of their presence in their neighborhoods.
If accused of having a Gay Agenda, point to this page and respond, “it's not an agenda, it's the Gospel.” Source
Stu, have you been hanging around them?
WJ
WorshippingJesus wrote:
Quote Christians do not commit violence on humanity, or they are not Christians at all but merely imposters! So you are prepared to acknowledge that the people who wrote the Nicene Creed, proclaiming the divinity of Christ, and the Athanasian Creed, spelling out the Trinity doctrine, were not Christians but imposters? These were the same people that authorized the violence in the list that I posted.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,06:49) Wit Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 11 2009,15:52) Can you see how that might produce slightly more biased results than a real scientific poll of random adults throughout all demographics in society?
No I can't see how you would think that just because we are Christians that you assume that we are being biased about gays approching us for sex.In fact I find it rather amazing that not you nor Stu has said one word like I am sorry that happened to you. But instead we get this persecution for standing up against their lifestyles.
Do you think the statistics would look better in a homosexual environment where these acts are practiced freely and accepted by adults, than in an envirement where Christians were brought up to believe the gay acts were sin?
Why are you guys so defending of their lifestyles. We have already explained they can do as they please, but don't expect us to accept it or try and influence me or my kids to it.
We have already said that they have a right to preach as they want and we have the same right.
Yet you guys can only find it in yourselves to accuse us of hate, when in fact we have said love the sinner and hate the sin.
As a victom of 4 gay men comming on to me between the ages of 12-16, I resent your mean spirited attitudes and constant harrasment and calling me names like homophobe etc because I hate what they represent but not who they are!
So continue to have at it! But get of your high horse and quit kidding yourself, you are no better than I!
WJ
Firstly, I have not called you any names. I don't make a habit of using words like homophobe, or moralophobe for that matter.Secondly, I only weighed in on this matter because it seemed like people were unfairly painting all homosexuals as predatory and therefore evil. In fact, you explicitly said so. As I said in my opening post on this issue, I am not by any means a “gay rights” advocate. I simply believe that all human beings deserve the benefit of the doubt until they individually prove otherwise.
Thirdly, if I were to be mistreated by a white person, (as I have been), I don't think that it would be appropriate for me to use that experience as a reason to cast all white people as evil. Whenever you start making gross generalizations, you are bound to end up injuring, or at the very least implicating, otherwise innocent individuals. If you would stop saying that ALL gay people are predatory, then I would not feel compelled to point out how unreasonable your position is.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,11:12) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 14 2009,19:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,11:04) Since it doesn't do any good to repeat oneself over and over again to someone who has closed their ears, then maybe if I speak to this cyber wall the vibrations may get through! We are not under the Old Covenant any longer!
We are under a New Covenant!
Now show me where Jesus who introduced the New Covenant incited his followers to commit violence in any form against humanity? Then show us if any of his followers carried out any acts of violence!
Shall we say STRAWMAN!
WJ
All of these things have already been shown to you. It is as if you are going back twenty posts and answering as if they had never happened.Romans, Jeremiah, the long list in WIT's post, and Matthew Williams and his brother, Tyler are what you seem to be ignoring.
Stuart
StuNo, this has not been answered!
“Now show me where Jesus who introduced the New Covenant incited his followers to commit violence in any form against humanity? Then show us if any of his followers carried out any acts of violence!”
Show me where there is any reliable, neutral record of what Jesus actually said.You might apply the same idea to islam, the 'religion of peace'. Are you in the habit of claiming that islamic terrorists are not really islamic?
Stuart
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 14 2009,21:37) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote Christians do not commit violence on humanity, or they are not Christians at all but merely imposters! So you are prepared to acknowledge that the people who wrote the Nicene Creed, proclaiming the divinity of Christ, and the Athanasian Creed, spelling out the Trinity doctrine, were not Christians but imposters? These were the same people that authorized the violence in the list that I posted.
Hi WitStudy Biblical history and you will see that the Trinity was taught long before the creeds.
Ignatius a disciple of the Apostle John around 110 CE in his writings taught that the Father was God, Jesus was God, and the Holy Spirit was God.
So your statement is circular, for if they can hijack the name of Christianity then they can hijack their doctrines.
Yes they can be imposters and are if they killed humans for any reason no matter what doctrines they believed. They are not following the teachings of Jesus!
Besides, when have you ever heard me defend the Trinity from the Nicene Creed or any other creed?
I use scriptures for my beliefs!
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 14 2009,22:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,11:12) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 14 2009,19:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,11:04) Since it doesn't do any good to repeat oneself over and over again to someone who has closed their ears, then maybe if I speak to this cyber wall the vibrations may get through! We are not under the Old Covenant any longer!
We are under a New Covenant!
Now show me where Jesus who introduced the New Covenant incited his followers to commit violence in any form against humanity? Then show us if any of his followers carried out any acts of violence!
Shall we say STRAWMAN!
WJ
All of these things have already been shown to you. It is as if you are going back twenty posts and answering as if they had never happened.Romans, Jeremiah, the long list in WIT's post, and Matthew Williams and his brother, Tyler are what you seem to be ignoring.
Stuart
StuNo, this has not been answered!
“Now show me where Jesus who introduced the New Covenant incited his followers to commit violence in any form against humanity? Then show us if any of his followers carried out any acts of violence!”
Show me where there is any reliable, neutral record of what Jesus actually said.You might apply the same idea to islam, the 'religion of peace'. Are you in the habit of claiming that islamic terrorists are not really islamic?
Stuart
Hi StuI didn't think you could show any followers of Jesus teachings committing acts of violence.
As far as the Muslims, you might ask a peace loving Muslim if he believes that the Islamic terrorist are true Muslims or are they just hijacking the religion for evil!
Ask BD on this sight, he is a Muslim!
WJ
That was very amusing gay satire WJ. Thanks.
By the way, it is site, not sight.
Have I been hanging around what, WJ?
Stuart
Well I showed you an account of people murdering gay people according to what they believed scripture required them to do, and I read a lot here about what you think scripture requires you to do.
You don't know what Jesus wanted and what he didn't want any more than they did. Who is to say that you are doing the right thing by restraining yourself from murdering homosexuals? The OT is clear, and Jesus said he did not come to cancel the law, and Paul says in Timothy that it is all good to teach, and in Romans that homosexuals are deserving of death.
Why are you not out there shooting up gay nightclubs? That would seem to be the obvious thing for a scripture-inspired christian to do. Of course I realise your christian dictionary will redefine whatever words you need for your argument.
Christianity: listen for the sound of goalposts being moved.
Stuart
Hi Wit
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 14 2009,21:51) If you would stop saying that ALL gay people are predatory, then I would not feel compelled to point out how unreasonable your position is.
Ok, as soon as you can show me where I have said ALL gays are predatory!BTW, I know the feeling about racism. I was raised in a predominatly black area outside of Washington DC, and went to a school that was about 95 % black. For awile they took my lunch money, and threatened me everyday with insulting racist comments like Honky, white trash, yet I also to this day have black friends.
So again, I have not claimed all gays were predators.
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 15 2009,02:48) That was very amusing gay satire WJ. Thanks. By the way, it is site, not sight.
Have I been hanging around what, WJ?
Stuart
Homosexuals, thats what. They seem to have the same beliefs that you do!WJ
Thanks for the spelling corection I will get right on it!
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 15 2009,02:55) Well I showed you an account of people murdering gay people according to what they believed scripture required them to do, and I read a lot here about what you think scripture requires you to do. You don't know what Jesus wanted and what he didn't want any more than they did. Who is to say that you are doing the right thing by restraining yourself from murdering homosexuals? The OT is clear, and Jesus said he did not come to cancel the law, and Paul says in Timothy that it is all good to teach, and in Romans that homosexuals are deserving of death.
Why are you not out there shooting up gay nightclubs? That would seem to be the obvious thing for a scripture-inspired christian to do. Of course I realise your christian dictionary will redefine whatever words you need for your argument.
Christianity: listen for the sound of goalposts being moved.
Stuart
StuYou havn't shown anything where the NT scriptures teach violence or any example of such.
You just keep puking out the same ole, what did you call it, oh yea, BILE!
That is how you spell it isn't it?
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 15 2009,18:55) Well I showed you an account of people murdering gay people according to what they believed scripture required them to do, and I read a lot here about what you think scripture requires you to do. You don't know what Jesus wanted and what he didn't want any more than they did. Who is to say that you are doing the right thing by restraining yourself from murdering homosexuals? The OT is clear, and Jesus said he did not come to cancel the law, and Paul says in Timothy that it is all good to teach, and in Romans that homosexuals are deserving of death.
Why are you not out there shooting up gay nightclubs? That would seem to be the obvious thing for a scripture-inspired christian to do. Of course I realise your christian dictionary will redefine whatever words you need for your argument.
Christianity: listen for the sound of goalposts being moved.
Stuart
Greetings Stu…. It is fairly obvious that the scriptures demonstrate a lack of tolerence for deviate behavior,however,this kind of behavior stands in defience of the basic laws of nature that dictate procreation.God gave man and women sex for procreation and for pleasure ,it is man once again as a result of his emnity toward God and his laws that has celebrated homosexuality……This behavior should be personal and private and not celebrated as an alternate lifestyle….We all sin and fall short and for this reason God fearing christians are not to judge….Hi theodorej
Homosexuality obviously is not behaviour that stands in defiance of the 'basic laws of nature'. There is no animals species that procreates by copulation that does not also exhibit homosexual behaviour too. Once you remove this misconception from your post all that is left is your plea for us to pay attention to the imagined saying of your murderous Imaginary Friend. Why should people have to do that?
Stuart
WJ
The significant change going from OT to NT is that we are not reading tedious genealogies and accounts of violent acts of god, but people making themselves out to be peaceniks but threatening violence for those who disagree, in hell after death, or by their god on their behalf. What a bluff. So when the anonymous writer of Matthew pens this…
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.…it comes as a surprise: it is STILL TRUE that homosexuals, adulterers and infidels must be stoned. That Jesus supposedly was not prepared to stone an adulteress even though he was without sin and therefore the only one qualified in his own words, he wimped out. He broke the laws that he came to fulfil.
Matthew 10: 34-39 Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.
Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.The classic threat of the violence of hell…commit violence upon yourself instead. What a lunatic religion.
Matthew 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Just following Jesus requires violence. And this has come true, of course!
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
You might argue this is the violent threat of hell again, but it does not actually say what fire it means.
Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Peter thinks that Deuteronomy applies to Jesus, that those who do not follow Jesus should be killed.
Acts 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.Paul blinds a man.
1Corinthians 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Paul will set snakes on you if you try and tempt Jesus.
Hebrews 12:20 … And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Presumably that goes for humans too…
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
The writer of James has no problem with offering people up to sacrifice on the basis of faith.
And now for the really wacky races bit:
Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.(Jesus wants to search your kidneys?)
Then there are the four horses of the apocalypse…no need for further comment there.
Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
More an incitement than a requirement for contemporary christians…
Revelation 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Revelation 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.Four angels and an army of horsemen kill a third of the world population.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.Don’t mess with these ‘witnesses’ or you will be killed.
Revelation is too full of this stuff for a complete post. You have probably read it and know already how much christians are licking their lips with anticipation of the immense violence against sinners they have been promised.
Stuart
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,19:05) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 15 2009,02:48) That was very amusing gay satire WJ. Thanks. By the way, it is site, not sight.
Have I been hanging around what, WJ?
Stuart
Homosexuals, thats what. They seem to have the same beliefs that you do!WJ
Thanks for the spelling corection I will get right on it!
I don't have time to hang around anywhere.What beliefs do you think I share in common with homosexuals?
Stuart
Hi Stu
You post is a total lack of understanding of the scriptures and in fact a total wack job on their meaning.
So once again you have failed to show me “One example” where the NT scriptures teachs violence against humanity and/or where a follower of Christ committed such.
But of course I understand why you cannot, because an Atheist trying to give lessons from scriptures is like a pedophile giving lessons on sobriety!
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