Homosexuality

[Stu]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,06:48)

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 06 2009,19:54) Are you the official warner, thinker? Anyway, you are wrong.  The gay community amounts to 30% of the population and the rate of predation is one third of that in the heterosexual population. It might be true, you have no evidence to contradict it.   Stuart Stu, It has occurred to me that you have come a long way. At the very beginning you denied that homosexuality has victims. Now you are accepting the fact that there is predation in the homosexual community. In a month from now you might be a Christian convert. thinker

Predation by homosexuals is as wrong as predation by heterosexuals.

Both have victims.

Homosexuality as a term on its own does not have victims.

Just because you cannot tell the difference does not mean I can't.

Stuart

[Cato]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,06:21)

Let's do away with all accountability then. The homosexual who molests a child can't help it because he has no power of choice. Find a site on Behaviorism for a counter argument. Do your own homework. thinker

I think you miss the whole point.  Everyone is accountable for their actions.  What the APA and others point out is that you do not choose your basic sexual orientation.  Thinker I will assume you are straight.  Was this a conscious decison or were you always this way?  What the APA is saying is that for most, orientation is not a choice.  However how we treat others is and for that we are accountable.  It is the same for all of us gay or straight. For what it is worth pedaphilia is considered a mental illness by the APA and has no direct linkage to one's basic sexual orientation.

[Cato]

WJ,

I brought this up in another thread but it is appropriate here also; According to the National Center for Victims of Crime, taking figures from 2005, “92 percent of rape or sexual assault victims were female; those 16-19 years old had the highest rate of sexual victimization of any age group.”  This indicates, as do most crime statistics, that the victims of sexual crimes and acts are overwhelming female and the perpetrators here are heterosexual males.  I am not defending gay criminals just pointing out that sex crimes are an overwhelmingly male problem and not one of orientation.

[Proclaimer]

I am not condemning anyone here, but here is a simple observation I have made with people I know who have homosexual tendencies.

Of course my experience and observation on this subject is very limited.

I have a friend who struggled with homosexual feelings. As far as I know, she wasn't born this way. She told me herself that she was molested on numerous occasions by her own brother maybe even her father (I think). After she told me her story, I thought that such ugly experiences could easily have put her of men for life and given that we are sexual creatures, she only really had one other way to turn after rejecting men. Even though she didn't like men, she actually liked me as a person and introduced me to her gay friends.

I have another friend (male) who struggled with lusting after men. He told me his story too. He basically was fat most of his life and his father who was quite a fit guy didn't like it that his son was fat. So he use to make comments all the time saying things like “look at that guy” he is fit, or “why can't you look like that guy”? So he started looking at guys at a young age and wished that he could be like some of them. This activity was fuelled by a desire to make his dad accept him and became a sort of fantasy where he would become this really slim person. Not to long and it became quite an obsession and following that he started having sexual thoughts toward guys. So his obsession to please his father led him to worshipping the creature (man). I don't think he had any kind of faith back then, but had he acknowledged God and worshipped him, then there may have been a great chance that all his thought processes would have been put into perspective and he may have given the greater glory to God and been saved of the consequences of his thinking which led to worshipping a creature.

Another guy I know who is one of the most creative and artistic people I have met struggled with homosexual fantasies. He had some therapy and prayer about this and he is now married (to a woman). I haven't seen him for a while now admittedly.

Scripture says that men lusted after their own flesh and woman after theirs as a result of worship of the creature/creation over that of the creator. So in part this explains why many gay people are very creative. It could be that they are so creative that they worship that which is made by human hand over that which is made by God. This is not to say that they shouldn't be creative, but that we should acknowledge that God is the creator of all and we all pale in comparison to his greatness. Such a simple acknowledgement could put everything else into true perspective and help keep us on the straight and narrow path. Notice the word straight here? I wonder if that is where usage of that word came from?

[Proclaimer]

OK, I have an interesting story.

At one stage in my life (quiet a number of years ago now) I was being attacked by a demon or demons at night. This happened around the same time at night and for a period of months. It usually happened in the following way:

I would wake up in the night and was able to sense a great evil presence in my room. This was really weird because I had never really been scared like this before, except when I was very young and had nightmares as many kids do. I could also usually tell exactly what part of the room the evil presence was and was too scared to confront it or do anything about it. I would just turn on the light and do something on my computer till I became calm again and then would go back to sleep.

One particular night the evil returned and I was in absolute fear again. It was moving around the room and it seemed like it was physical as it sat on my bed near my feet. Even though I was extremely scared, I was also really annoyed for the lack of good sleep I had suffered and I just thought that it was not fair that I was being attacked in this way. So I decided to confront this thing.

I looked at it and it was hard to see it clearly in the dark. I then decided to speak. I thought it would be good to ask it's name before rebuking it and telling it to leave in Jesus name. I sort of had in my mind the story of the demons that Jesus cast out of a man  as reported in the gospels. He had asked the demon what it's name was and it replied “”My name is Legion; for we are many.” Jesus then cast them out in a spectacular way.

So I tried to speak but I could not. There was a kind of pressure that stopped me from talking and even opening my mouth was very difficult. So I concentrated with all the strength I could muster and asked “what is your name”. I can't remember if I actually spoke or spoke in my mind only. It didn't answer me in English but it transformed into a figure and the figure became a man and that man then became someone I knew quite well. I then cast it away from my presence and it left.

The next day I sought out this person whom the demon had mimicked and told this person of my experience and how this had happened for about 2 months. I told him that I confronted this thing and it transformed into him for some strange reason. I asked him what he made of this. I was comfortable talking to this person about dreams and things, he wasn't a stranger but a friend.

After my story, this person looked very worried and he told me that he had something to confess. He said that he often had fantasies about me often, especially at night. (If my memory serves me correctly, I even think the time matched up too when we discussed how long this had been going on for.) Anyway, this guy was so ashamed and also quite worried that I would hate him and reject him as we were pretty good friends. I looked at him and said that I wasn't mad, but was glad to find out so that the evil problem could go away. To this day we are still friends.

Anyway, after that meeting with him, the problem never occurred again and this guy also got his answer because he wasn't too sure if these feelings were wrong or not and he believed that he got his answer loud and clear.

Just to give this story a bit more context. I am not really a fearful person and often walk through forests at night when going home just for the fun of it. Once I got stuck in a forest and it was pitch black. I could see glow worms and that was all. I used a very faint light on my cell phone and held it half a foot of the ground to see where I was placing my feet and it took me 4 hours to walk through, when normally it would take half an hour. So I am not one to be scared of the dark, but these experiences were truly scary and it was really unusual for me to feel such terror just being in my bedroom at night.

You can draw your own conclusions about this. I am only reporting what happened.

[Cato]

T8,

The closest thing I could gather from your story is that your friend unconsciously projected an etheric thought form of himself and sent it to be with you.  According to theory of such, it happens most commonly when the projector is in a relaxed state between sleep and wakefullness.  The thought form is not demonic, but a representation of the creators (your friend's) mental state at the time.  As such things are outside of our normal mode of operating we find it very disconcerting and often frightening, especially when it takes place at night in a darkened room.  It was probably your friend's fascination with you that prompted the creation.  In my opinion this makes far more sense then your initial assumption that you were randomly beset by demons.

[Paladin]

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 07 2009,06:42)

Paladin, Given that you agree with Jodi Lee, maybe you can answer the question that I posed in response to her example. Her example: Quote The word abomination contains variance to it's severity depending on the ACT to which it is described. If I were to say, Sue is a BAD person because she likes to repeatedly bring up peoples faults and talk behind their backs, and then say Jill is a BAD person because she physically abuses her children, do we conclude that the separate acts are equally bad since the same word is being used to describe the separate acts? Of course not, we know from the act itself that one is worse then the other, regardless of the fact both acts were described as bad. This same logic should be applied to the word in the bible that is translated into abomination. My question: Quote Yes, but in your example, both things are still bad.  You would not expect someone with consistent standards to one day re-classify either action as good or neutral.  Would you?

Good question.

I think the first thing I would do, is determine the meaning inherent in the oritinal words, then adjust for my understanding, what the translators failed to allow when they translated both terms as “abomination.”

This one think remains constant though. God bestows “Don't do that” status on all of them, no matter how many terms are used.

THAT's enough for me. I do not attempt to find the least evil and do that one just a little bit, while avoiding the realy nasty stuff all together. I think THAT is mocking God. And God is not mocked with impunity.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 06 2009,14:10)

Are Christians feeling threatened by those who don't desire the opposite sex?

The reason for so many homosexuals threads is to emphasize to you seculars your denial that they are predators. Stu started it by saying that homosexuality has no victims. When challenged he did not retract it. Had he retracted it we wouldn't have so many threads.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cato @ Aug. 07 2009,10:19)

T8, The closest thing I could gather from your story is that your friend unconsciously projected an etheric thought form of himself and sent it to be with you.  According to theory of such, it happens most commonly when the projector is in a relaxed state between sleep and wakefullness.  The thought form is not demonic, but a representation of the creators (your friend's) mental state at the time.  As such things are outside of our normal mode of operating we find it very disconcerting and often frightening, especially when it takes place at night in a darkened room.  It was probably your friend's fascination with you that prompted the creation.  In my opinion this makes far more sense then your initial assumption that you were randomly beset by demons.

Hi Cato

Why not just believe the scriptures that says there are demons and satan can transform himself?

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,17:48)

So homosexuality is destroying the nation now.  I suppose it will be responsible for global warming next. And after that sunspots and the next supernova. Stuart

All you need to do is read the book How Christianity Changed the World and you will learn what homosexuals have been responsible for in history. Their history indicates the potential threat they are now. I posted the link to the book so you could not divert from the issues with such questions. Here is the link again:

Stop asking such questions when you have your answers at the click of your mouse!

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,05:58)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,03:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2009,03:13) Hi All Only 4 votes and 4 people. So far it is 50%, thats a pretty high number dont you think? WJ WJ, It is an exceptionally high number seeing that homosexuals are such a small part of the over all population. Imagine how the poll would be if homosexuals were even a simple majority. To our secularist friends: History proves and people today can testify that homosexuals are predators. Get your heads out of the sand! thinker To my religionist friend:  I testify that you are wrong. That is one 'testify' each, a stalemate.  To 'prove' anything like this is impossible, you cannot even 'prove' you exist, that is a conclusion too. You can rant on in your homophobic way as you want, but you have convinced me of nothing, and you cannot show that the homosexual population is not 30%, which would make heterosexuals much more dangerous statistically. Does your christianity require you to pass judgement on others and persecute them?  If so why do you persist with such an unpleasant way of carrying on? Stuart

Stu,
Another pro-homosexual here posted a statistic which says that the population of homosexuals is 1-10%. This is not my statistic. Even 30% is a super minority and the number of predators is high for that. Just this morning I heard on the news that a homosexual firefighter in my state molested a young boy. They can't keep it in their pants and they will do what they gotta do to gratify their inordinate desires. I forgot though that you said they have no free will. I guess this firefighter just couldn't help it but to molest a boy.

You say that I persecute homosexuals? Well, I tried to give the homosexual pedophile I dealt with 12 years ago spiritual help. Let me tell you what persecution is. Persecution is when a reputable association like the Boy Scouts of America is denied the use of public schools for meetings because they won't admit homosexuals into the Scouts. They are basically being denied their right to the freedom of association and the right to protect other boys.

If homosexuals are being persecuted then why do I fear that my posts against homosexuality could some day end me up in jail? My freedom of speech is limited. If homosexuals are the persecuted then why did Miss California suffer for answering a question about gay marriage? The question had absolutely nothing to do with anything. It was asked her by a homosexual who wanted to harm her.

First you deny that homosexuality has victims. Now you seem to deny that they are themselves persecutors. Shall I start even another thread to set you straight?

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,20:34)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,06:48) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 06 2009,19:54) Are you the official warner, thinker? Anyway, you are wrong.  The gay community amounts to 30% of the population and the rate of predation is one third of that in the heterosexual population. It might be true, you have no evidence to contradict it.   Stuart Stu, It has occurred to me that you have come a long way. At the very beginning you denied that homosexuality has victims. Now you are accepting the fact that there is predation in the homosexual community. In a month from now you might be a Christian convert. thinker Predation by homosexuals is as wrong as predation by heterosexuals. Both have victims. Homosexuality as a term on its own does not have victims. Just because you cannot tell the difference does not mean I can't. Stuart

Great! Now you confess that homosexuality has victims. Now we will work on your claim that they are the persecuted.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,11:11)

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,05:58) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,03:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2009,03:13) Hi All Only 4 votes and 4 people. So far it is 50%, thats a pretty high number dont you think? WJ WJ, It is an exceptionally high number seeing that homosexuals are such a small part of the over all population. Imagine how the poll would be if homosexuals were even a simple majority. To our secularist friends: History proves and people today can testify that homosexuals are predators. Get your heads out of the sand! thinker To my religionist friend:  I testify that you are wrong. That is one 'testify' each, a stalemate.  To 'prove' anything like this is impossible, you cannot even 'prove' you exist, that is a conclusion too. You can rant on in your homophobic way as you want, but you have convinced me of nothing, and you cannot show that the homosexual population is not 30%, which would make heterosexuals much more dangerous statistically. Does your christianity require you to pass judgement on others and persecute them?  If so why do you persist with such an unpleasant way of carrying on? Stuart Stu, Another pro-homosexual here posted a statistic which says that the population of homosexuals is 1-10%. This is not my statistic. Even 30% is a super minority and the number of predators is high for that. Just this morning I heard on the news that a homosexual firefighter in my state molested a young boy. They can't keep it in their pants and they will do what they gotta do to gratify their inordinate desires. I forgot though that you said they have no free will. I guess this firefighter just couldn't help it but to molest a boy. You say that I persecute homosexuals? Well, I am a small business man with one employee and he is a homosexual and he molested a child 23 years ago. I believe they have the right to work just as anyone else. Let me tell you what persecution is. Persecution is when a reputable association like the Boy Scouts of America is denied the use of public schools for meetings because they won't admit homosexuals into the Scouts. They are basically being denied their right to the freedom of association and the right to protect other boys. If homosexuals are being persecuted then why do I fear that my posts against homosexuality could some day end me up in jail? My freedom of speech is limited. If homosexuals are the persecuted then why did Miss California suffer for answering a question about gay marriage? The question had absolutely nothing to do with anything. It was asked her by a homosexual who wanted to harm her. First you deny that homosexuality has victims. Now you seem to deny that they are themselves persecutors. Shall I start even another thread to set you straight? thinker

Hi Jack

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,11:11)

Persecution is when a reputable association like the Boy Scouts of America is denied the use of public schools for meetings because they won't admit homosexuals into the Scouts. They are basically being denied their right to the freedom of association and the right to protect other boys.

How true. The double standard is amazing.

They want to silence anyone who preaches against their acts yet they in turn want to force themselves down the boy scouts throats.

No pun intended!

Just those two examples and the fact they want to change our laws to redefine marriage is proof they have an agenda!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,03:25)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,11:11) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,05:58) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,03:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2009,03:13) Hi All Only 4 votes and 4 people. So far it is 50%, thats a pretty high number dont you think? WJ WJ, It is an exceptionally high number seeing that homosexuals are such a small part of the over all population. Imagine how the poll would be if homosexuals were even a simple majority. To our secularist friends: History proves and people today can testify that homosexuals are predators. Get your heads out of the sand! thinker To my religionist friend:  I testify that you are wrong. That is one 'testify' each, a stalemate.  To 'prove' anything like this is impossible, you cannot even 'prove' you exist, that is a conclusion too. You can rant on in your homophobic way as you want, but you have convinced me of nothing, and you cannot show that the homosexual population is not 30%, which would make heterosexuals much more dangerous statistically. Does your christianity require you to pass judgement on others and persecute them?  If so why do you persist with such an unpleasant way of carrying on? Stuart Stu, Another pro-homosexual here posted a statistic which says that the population of homosexuals is 1-10%. This is not my statistic. Even 30% is a super minority and the number of predators is high for that. Just this morning I heard on the news that a homosexual firefighter in my state molested a young boy. They can't keep it in their pants and they will do what they gotta do to gratify their inordinate desires. I forgot though that you said they have no free will. I guess this firefighter just couldn't help it but to molest a boy. You say that I persecute homosexuals? Well, I am a small business man with one employee and he is a homosexual and he molested a child 23 years ago. I believe they have the right to work just as anyone else. Let me tell you what persecution is. Persecution is when a reputable association like the Boy Scouts of America is denied the use of public schools for meetings because they won't admit homosexuals into the Scouts. They are basically being denied their right to the freedom of association and the right to protect other boys. If homosexuals are being persecuted then why do I fear that my posts against homosexuality could some day end me up in jail? My freedom of speech is limited. If homosexuals are the persecuted then why did Miss California suffer for answering a question about gay marriage? The question had absolutely nothing to do with anything. It was asked her by a homosexual who wanted to harm her. First you deny that homosexuality has victims. Now you seem to deny that they are themselves persecutors. Shall I start even another thread to set you straight? thinker Hi Jack Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,11:11) Persecution is when a reputable association like the Boy Scouts of America is denied the use of public schools for meetings because they won't admit homosexuals into the Scouts. They are basically being denied their right to the freedom of association and the right to protect other boys. How true. The double standard is amazing. They want to silence anyone who preaches against their acts yet they in turn want to force themselves down the boy scouts throats. No pun intended! Just those two examples and the fact they want to change our laws to redefine marriage is proof they have an agenda! WJ

WJ,
The unintentional pun was still good.  

thinker

[Stu]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 08 2009,02:43)

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 06 2009,14:10) Are Christians feeling threatened by those who don't desire the opposite sex? The reason for so many homosexuals threads is to emphasize to you seculars your denial that they are predators. Stu started it by saying that homosexuality has no vitims. When challenged he did not retract it. Had he retracted it we wouldn't have so many threads. thinker

HOMSEXUALITY has no victims.

Predators have victims.

Not all predators are homosexual.

They are not the same thing.

Learn some logic.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 08 2009,02:50)

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,17:48) So homosexuality is destroying the nation now.  I suppose it will be responsible for global warming next. And after that sunspots and the next supernova. Stuart All you need to do is read the book How Christianity Changed the World and you will learn what homosexuals have been responsible for in history. Their history indicates the potential threat they are now. I posted the link to the book so you could not divert from the issues with such questions. Here is the link again: Stop asking such questions when you have your answers at the click of your mouse! thinker

Why did you not say you were a publisher specialising in christian homophobic literature from the beginning.

We could have had your spurious posts removed by t8 as advertising.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 08 2009,03:11)

Stu, Another pro-homosexual here posted a statistic which says that the population of homosexuals is 1-10%. This is not my statistic. Even 30% is a super minority and the number of predators is high for that.

Did you not pay any attention to maths at school?

The statistic of 9% of the 99% of predation by males is on other males.

So IF 30% was right, gay people would be UNDERREPRESENTED in the stats by about 3x.

As you cannot substantiate an actual value of the rate of homosexuality then your analysis is no better than hot air.

Of course as you have such a strong anti-homosexual agenda to push you simply choose for yourself what value you would like, and as I pointed out to you, if you choose 1% then you can hardly join the redneck call to blame homosexualty for the destruction of society, and if you choose the 10% end then you cannot say that homosexuals predate at a greater rate than non-homosexuals.

Who was it who said 0.01% again? You're making it up to suit your homophobic argument of the hour.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 08 2009,03:22)

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,20:34) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,06:48) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 06 2009,19:54) Are you the official warner, thinker? Anyway, you are wrong.  The gay community amounts to 30% of the population and the rate of predation is one third of that in the heterosexual population. It might be true, you have no evidence to contradict it.   Stuart Stu, It has occurred to me that you have come a long way. At the very beginning you denied that homosexuality has victims. Now you are accepting the fact that there is predation in the homosexual community. In a month from now you might be a Christian convert. thinker Predation by homosexuals is as wrong as predation by heterosexuals. Both have victims. Homosexuality as a term on its own does not have victims. Just because you cannot tell the difference does not mean I can't. Stuart Great! Now you confess that homosexuality has victims. Now we will work on your claim that they are the persecuted. thinker

Where did I say that?

When are you available to be sued for libel?

Stuart

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 08 2009,04:56)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 08 2009,03:22) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 07 2009,20:34) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 07 2009,06:48) Quote (Stu @ Aug. 06 2009,19:54) Are you the official warner, thinker? Anyway, you are wrong.  The gay community amounts to 30% of the population and the rate of predation is one third of that in the heterosexual population. It might be true, you have no evidence to contradict it.   Stuart Stu, It has occurred to me that you have come a long way. At the very beginning you denied that homosexuality has victims. Now you are accepting the fact that there is predation in the homosexual community. In a month from now you might be a Christian convert. thinker Predation by homosexuals is as wrong as predation by heterosexuals. Both have victims. Homosexuality as a term on its own does not have victims. Just because you cannot tell the difference does not mean I can't. Stuart Great! Now you confess that homosexuality has victims. Now we will work on your claim that they are the persecuted. thinker Where did I say that? When are you available to be sued for libel? Stuart

Stu,
On another thread you inferred that I persecute homosexuals. You said:

Quote

Does your christianity require you to pass judgement on others and persecute them?

Maybe I should sue you for libel. On the other hand this is against my Christian principles.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Stu @ Aug. 08 2009,04:54)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 08 2009,03:11) Stu, Another pro-homosexual here posted a statistic which says that the population of homosexuals is 1-10%. This is not my statistic. Even 30% is a super minority and the number of predators is high for that. Did you not pay any attention to maths at school? The statistic of 9% of the 99% of predation by males is on other males. So IF 30% was right, gay people would be UNDERREPRESENTED in the stats by about 3x. As you cannot substantiate an actual value of the rate of homosexuality then your analysis is no better than hot air. Of course as you have such a strong anti-homosexual agenda to push you simply choose for yourself what value you would like, and as I pointed out to you, if you choose 1% then you can hardly join the redneck call to blame homosexualty for the destruction of society, and if you choose the 10% end then you cannot say that homosexuals predate at a greater rate than non-homosexuals. Who was it who said 0.01% again?   You're making it up to suit your homophobic argument of the hour. Stuart

I noticed that you payed no attention to the sufferings of others at the hands of homosexuals and pro-homosexuals. And to what “anti-homosexual agenda” are you referring?

thinker

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