History of the jehovah's witnesses

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    History of the Jehovah's Witnesses

    Fifty years ago the Jehovah's Witnesses numbered fewer than 100,000. Now there are several million of them around the world. They don’t have churches; they have “Kingdom Halls” instead. Their congregations are uniformly small, usually numbering less than two hundred. Most Witnesses used to be Catholics or Protestants. Let’s look a little at their history, because that will help us understand their unique doctrines.

    The sect now known as the Jehovah’s Witnesses was started by Charles Taze Russell, who was born in 1852 and worked in Pittsburgh as a haberdasher. He was raised a Congregationalist, but at the age of seventeen he tried to convert an atheist to Christianity and ended up being converted instead—not to outright atheism, but to agnosticism. Some years later he went to an Adventist meeting, was told that Jesus would be back at any time, and got interested in the Bible.

    The leading light of Adventism had been William Miller, a flamboyant preacher who predicted that the world would end in 1843. When it didn’t, he “discovered” an arithmetical error in his eschatological calculations and said it would end in 1844. When his prediction again failed, many people became frustrated and withdrew from the Adventist movement, but a remnant, led by Ellen G. White, went on to form the Seventh-Day Adventist Church.

    It was this diminished Adventism which influenced Russell, who took the title “Pastor” even though he never got through high school. In 1879, he began the Watch Tower—what would later be known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the teaching organ of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. In 1908 he moved its headquarters to Brooklyn, where it has remained ever since.

    Before he got his religious career well underway, Russell promoted what he called “miracle wheat,” which he sold at sixty dollars per bushel. He claimed it would grow five times as well as regular wheat. In fact, it grew slightly less well than regular wheat, as was established in court when Russell was sued. Later he marketed a fake cancer cure and what he termed a “millennial bean” (which a wag has said probably got that name because it took a thousand years to sprout).

    Unusual Doctrines

    Russell taught his followers the non-existence of hell and the annihilation of unsaved people (a doctrine he picked up from the Adventists), the non-existence of the Trinity (he said only the Father, Jehovah, is God), the identification of Jesus with Michael the Archangel, the reduction of the Holy Spirit from a person to a force, the mortality (not immortality) of the soul, and the return of Jesus in 1914.

    When 1914 had come and gone, with no Jesus in sight, Russell modified his teachings and claimed Jesus had, in fact, returned to Earth, but that his return was invisible. His visible return would come later, but still very soon. It would result in the final conflict between God and the Devil—the forces of good and the forces of evil—in which God would be victorious. This conflict is known to Witnesses as the battle of Armageddon, and just about everything the Witnesses teach centers around this doctrine.

    Russell died in 1916 and was succeeded by “Judge” Joseph R. Rutherford. Rutherford, born in 1869, had been brought up as a Baptist and became the legal adviser to the Watch Tower. He never was a real judge, but took the title because, as an attorney, he substituted at least once for an absent judge.

    At one time he claimed Russell was next to Paul as an expounder of the gospel, but later, in an effort to have his writings supplant Russell’s, he let Russell’s books go out of print. It was Rutherford who coined the slogan, “Millions now living will never die.” By it he meant that some people alive in 1914 would still be alive when Armageddon came and the world was restored to a paradise state.

    In 1931 he changed the name of the sect to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, which he based on Isaiah 43:10 (“‘You are my witnesses,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘even my servant whom I have chosen . . . ,’” New World Translation). As an organizer, he equipped missionaries with portable phonographs, which they took door to door along with records of Rutherford. They didn’t have to say much when they came calling; all they had to do was put on Rutherford’s record. He displayed a marked hatred for Catholicism on his radio program and in the pamphlets he wrote. Later his successors tempered the sect’s anti-Catholicism, but Awake! and The Watchtower still carry anti-Catholic articles every few issues, though the tone tends to be more subtle than the overtly lurid style of Rutherford’s day.

    Rutherford said that in 1925 Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the prophets would return to Earth, and for them he prepared a mansion named Beth Sarim in San Diego, California. He moved into this mansion (where he died in 1942) and bought an automobile with which to drive the resurrected patriarchs around. The Watch Tower Society quietly sold Beth Sarim years later to cover up an embarrassing moment in their history, namely another failed prophecy.

    Trained to Give Testimonies

    Rutherford was succeeded by Nathan Homer Knorr, who was born in 1905 and died in 1977. Knorr joined the movement as a teenager, working his way up through the ranks. He got rid of the phonographs and insisted that the missionaries attend courses and be trained in door-to-door evangelism techniques. The Witnesses now have a reputation as skillful deliverers of “personal testimonies.”

    Since the Bible, as preserved through the centuries, did not support the peculiar doctrines of the Witnesses, Knorr chose an anonymous committee to produce the New World Translation, which is used by no sect other than the Witnesses. By means of former Witnesses, the names of the five members of the translation committee eventually came to light. Four of the five members completely lack credentials to qualify them as Bible translators, and the fifth member studied non-biblical Greek for only about two years.

    The New World Translation was produced because it buttresses Witnesses’ beliefs through obscure or inaccurate renderings. For example, to prove that Jesus was only a creature, not God, the New World Translation’s rendering of John 1:1 concludes this way: “and the Word was a god” [italics added]. Every other translation, Catholic and Protestant—not to mention the Greek original—has “and the Word was God.”

    What Happened to Armageddon?

    Knorr was succeeded as head of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, by Frederick Franz. He had been the Witnesses’ leading theologian, and his services were often called upon. For some years the sect’s magazines had been predicting that Armageddon would occur in 1975. When it didn’t, Franz had to find an explanation.

    Witnesses believe that Adam was created in 4026 B.C. and that human beings have been allotted 6000 years of existence until Armageddon and the beginning of the millennium. This figure is based on a “creative week” in which each of six days is equal to 1,000 years, with the Sabbath or seventh day being the beginning of the millennium. Simple arithmetic gives 1975 as the year Armageddon would arrive. Franz explained that Armageddon would actually come 6000 years after Eve’s creation. But when 1975 came and went, the Witnesses had to “adjust” their chronology to cover up a failed prediction. They accomplished this by maintaining that no one knew exactly how long after Adam’s creation Eve came on the scene. Franz said that it was months—even years. Hence he was able to “stretch” the 1975 date to some indeterminate time in the future. In any case, Franz said that Witnesses would just have to wait, knowing the end is right around the corner.

    When the final battle does occur—remember, it will be during the lifetime of “millions” of people alive in 1914, which means it can’t be too far off—Jehovah will defeat Satan and
    the elect will go to heaven to rule with Christ. But, following a literal interpretation of the number mentioned in Revelation, chapters 7 and 14, only 144,000 are among the elect. They will go to heaven as spirit persons (without resurrected bodies). The remaining faithful (Jehovah’s Witnesses), who are known as Jonadabs, will live forever on a renewed, paradise Earth in resurrected bodies. The unsaved will cease to exist at all, having been annihilated by Jehovah.

    Franz was succeeded as president of the Watchtower in 1993 by Milton Henschel, who has continued the aggressive evangelization tactics of his predecessors. In 1995 the Watchtower quietly changed one of its major prophetic doctrines. Until this point, they had maintained that the generation alive in 1914 would not pass from the scene until Armageddon occurred. Now that this generation has almost entirely died out—and Armageddon has not occurred and does not seem like it will happen immediately—they had to change their doctrine. Now, the Watchtower says that Armageddon will simply occur “soon,” and it is no longer tied to a particular, literal generation of people.

    How They Make Converts

    Most religions welcome converts, and the Witnesses’ very reason for existence is to make them. To accomplish this they follow several steps.

    First they try to get a copy of one of their magazines into the hands of a prospective convert. They lead off with a question designed to tap into universal concerns such as, “How would you like to live in a world without sickness, war, poverty, or any other problem?” If the prospect is willing to speak with them, they arrange what’s known as a “back call”—that is, they return in a week or so for more discussions. This can be kept up indefinitely.

    At some point the missionaries invite the prospect to a Bible study. This is not the usual sort of Bible study, where passages are examined in light of context, original word meaning, relevance to other verses in Scripture, etc. Instead, this “Bible study” is really an exposition of Witness doctrine by means of Watchtower literature. Simple questions are presented in the literature which are derived directly from the text. The answers, therefore, are readily discernible, making the prospective convert feel spiritually astute, since he or she can answer all the questions “correctly.” The Bible study is directed along lines mandated by the officials in Brooklyn, and the prospect is there to learn, not to teach. If he progresses well, he’s invited to a larger Bible study, which may be held at a Kingdom Hall.

    About this time he’s invited to attend a Sunday service. At the Kingdom Hall, which resembles not so much a church but a small lecture hall, the prospect hears a Witness discuss a few verses of Scripture and how those verses can be explained to non-Witnesses or how to “refute” standard Christian doctrines such as the Trinity, hell, the immortality of the soul, etc. The service includes taped music to accompany the singing of hymns, and there is always time allotted for obtaining Watchtower literature and publications.

    Sharing Techniques

    The prospective convert gets still more of this if he proceeds to the next step, which consists of going to meetings on Wednesday or Thursday nights. At those meetings Witnesses trade stories, explaining how they’ve done that week in going door to door, giving advice to one another, figuring out better ways to get the message across, and logging their hours. (Every month each Kingdom Hall mails to the headquarters in Brooklyn a detailed log of activities, including hours spent “witnessing” door-to-door, the number of converts made, and the number of pieces of literature distributed.)

    If the prospect goes through all these steps, he’s ready for admission to the sect. That involves baptism by immersion and agreeing to work actively as a missionary. Many missionaries take only part-time jobs so they can devote more time to their evangelization. Witnesses will typically spend 60-100 hours each month in their evangelizing work. Some will even go so far as to work full time for the WTS, receiving little more than room and board for their efforts.

    Life as a Witness

    Although not every Witness can put in so many hours, every Witness is expected to do what he can by way of missionary work. There is no separate, ordained ministry as is found in Protestant churches. Their sect operates no hospitals, sanitariums, orphanages, schools, colleges, or social welfare agencies. From their perspective it will all disappear in a few years anyway, so they don’t expend their energies in these areas.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses live under a strict regimen. They may be “disfellowshipped” for a variety of reasons, such as attending a Catholic or Protestant church or receiving a blood transfusion. Disfellowshipping is the sect’s equivalent of excommunication, though somewhat more harsh. A disfellow-
    shipped Witness may attend Kingdom Hall, but he is not allowed to speak to anyone, and no one may speak to him. The others are to act as though he no longer exists. This applies even to his family, who may only communicate with him as much as absolutely necessary.

    They recognize the legitimacy of no governmental authority, since they believe all earthly authority is of Satan. They will not serve in the military, salute the flag, say the Pledge of Allegiance, vote, run for office, or serve as officials of labor unions.

    No matter how peculiar their doctrines, they deserve to be complimented on their determination and single-minded zeal. However, as Paul might have said concerning them, “For I bear them witness that they have zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.” (Rom. 10:2).

    #142735
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    The history of the Jehovah's witnesses is the result of the Catholic Church, now you go about calling all your daughters whores when the CC is the whore. The JW's have removed themselves as much as possible away from that great whore but they too indeed fail. There is no Christian that is following the way of Christ except those who accept Islam. Today even the CC has accepted Islam because they realize there is no choice in the matter.

    #142782
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    The history of the Jehovah's witnesses is the result of the Catholic Church

    It's crazy how many JW's were once Catholics. You'll find extremely few JW's who will ever become a Catholic. It just doesn't happen.

    So, CA, you've created a couple of these “bashing JW” threads. I'm guessing, partially to get people of YOUR back. There are two reasons I have not done the same. #1. It's too easy and everyone already hates the Catholic church. (Which is perhaps the only thing I admire about it.)
    #2. I consider this a very sad tactic. Why can we just not discuss any of these topics?

    #142783
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    They may be “disfellowshipped” for a variety of reasons, such as attending a Catholic or Protestant church or receiving a blood transfusion. Disfellowshipping is the sect’s equivalent of excommunication, though somewhat more harsh

    So, did you guys ever excommunicate Hitler? Wait, isn't there a picture of Hitler shaking hands with a bishop? I think there is.

    First, to correct you, technically no one is ever disfellowshipped for accepting a blood tranfusion anymore. They “dissasociate” themself. But whatever.

    Here are some interesting comments by someone named Casey in the “JW thread,” under, truth or tradition (Oct 26/08, page 38)

    “David I must first say kuddos to the response. I am pleased on how our dialouge has been going. Your recent posts are very informative and set some matter straight. I have to say when one has an “axe to grind” with the witnesses, more times than not it is all heresay and coming from one who was disfellowshipped. I guess I should be cautious in believing things that I was not there to see and hear and consider all the circumstances around the cases. I found a site on the net that was so rediculous in its treatment of JW's that I could not grasp how people bought in to the sites attacks. One who has any sense of logic and common sense should be able to see right through the tactics they employ. Sadly it isn't the case. People buy into this junk without researching it first. The post on the main page says, “The NWT 1666 pages! I could not believe it but I checked and there are 1666 pages!” I had to laugh. This was before I even found this forum. But just to humor myself I checked and found the accusation false. There are 1662 or something to that effect. So not only was this claim unfounded but it was in error! How gullible we men of flesh are sometimes! Before I have had these discussions with you some of the propoganda I believed. Here are some of the half trues and sometimes blatant lies being tosses around out there.
    The JW's have their own Bible.
    They don't believe in hell fire.
    They don't believe in heaven.
    They only believe 144,000 will spend eternity with God on earth.
    They don't believe Christ died for your sins.
    From and ex witness I heard, “They never even would mention Jesus”
    Jehovah isn't even God's Name.
    They are heretics.
    They are all going to hell.
    …and so on and so on . If I could list or even remember everything that I have heard about you guys from my childhood on you would laugh. I now laugh. :p I remember my best friend when he was a witness we would walk home from school (about 3rd to 5th grade) and argue back and forth, “There is no hell, there is a hell, there is no hell, there is a hell…” Neither of us having anything to back it up with but our emotionally driven ignorance…dumb kids :laugh: I miss those days sometimes. . . .I am glad you cleared up some misunderstandings I have had before. Regarding disfellowshipping from the verses you listed (which I was very familiar with) we are in agreement. I was simply not informed of the actual reasons that led to the steps and process administered. The strange thing is I now think the witnesses are the only group that follows these admonishments from Paul. Most of us non-witnesses brush over these verses and ignore them, I did. Now I must reconsider what I believe and what action I will take in applying them. Thank You David :)

    #142784
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Most Witnesses used to be Catholics

    CA, why do you think that is?

    #142793
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Disfellowshipping is the sect’s equivalent of excommunication, though somewhat more harsh

    I guess some say Hitler was never excommunicated because his very actions excommunicated him.  But this is ridiculous and not how the earliest non-Catholic Christians did it.  They actually “removed” the wicked man from among them.

    Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until his death. “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so,” he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

    Does anyone ever get excommunicated?  If not Hitler, who?

    #142799
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    This whole Catholics versus JWs is a red herring.

    Catholics love it because it paints them as one of 2 contenders for the truth and given 2 choices they usually win if you take their numbers into account.

    JWs love it too because it makes them the alternative option and that sort of fits the 'little flock/narrow path that few find', scenario.

    However the truth is as often happens, is not found in either camp.
    Just as a side note, this is also how politicians try to get their way. They say things like we want you to have this, and if you do not like that, then we will settle for this. It is said this way to detract from the fact that you can choose neither or say no to both. Both options are their will and they try to hide the option that they don't want you to choose.

    Yes JW's are correct, the Trinity Doctrine (which is the foundation of the Roman Catholic faith) is incorrect, and the Catholic doctrine that Jesus is the son of God, and that saints go to heaven is also correct. But it is where both of these organisations are wrong that is concerning.

    The truth is that Jesus has a Church which is the temple of God. This temple is made up of redeemed people (saints) who are filled with God's Spirit. They acknowledge Jesus as the head of this body and not some Pope, or CEO. Yes both these groups at a minimum give lip service to Jesus and some are admittedly very passionate too, but ultimately both groups take their instructions from men in high places within their respective organisations.

    Even Paul said that after he departed that men would arise even from among us and deceive many. That men would rise and draw men unto themselves. It is in the name of Jesus that we should work. Both groups do service in their own names, i.e., The Roman Catholic Church and the Jehovah Witnesses.

    We would be wise to avoid such organisations made by men and instead let Jesus personally lead us to the Father. For the Father is the true God and Jesus is his son. True faith is easy to comprehend and it is exciting.

    We don't need any organisation of man to tell us what we believe. God's Spirit will lead us to all truth.

    Let us trust in God and trust in his son who said that he would build his Church.

    It is written that trusting in men is a cursed thing to do. We would do well to heed this.

    The whole point of an institution is to institutionalise people. Let us not enter these prisons of the mind and soul, and instead be free to learn what God has done for us and what we have been given, and together we can rejoice for God's Church is not a man made institution, but a body that is not like anything this world has seen. It is written that we should not be of this world, yet these organisations are run like worldly business – investing in money, real estate, and human souls.

    #142808
    Cindy
    Participant

    Quote (david @ Aug. 28 2009,18:48)

    Quote
    Disfellowshipping is the sect’s equivalent of excommunication, though somewhat more harsh

    I guess some say Hitler was never excommunicated because his very actions excommunicated him.  But this is ridiculous and not how the earliest non-Catholic Christians did it.  They actually “removed” the wicked man from among them.

    Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until his death. “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so,” he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

    Does anyone ever get excommunicated?  If not Hitler, who?


    All of this going back and forth, who is right and who is wrong, makes me wonder if any of you are Christians. We should not bash others. Discussing Scriptures is good, but if one gets personal, that I find wrong. I used to be a Catholic too, but I did not become a J.W. Both have some truths. The J,W. have made me look deeper into the Scriptures, when they came around our House and my dear Husband let them in. The preexisting of Christ was a big step that the J.W. are teaching and there are Scriptures that supports that teaching.
    Rev. 3:14
    Col. 1:15-17
    John 1:1
    Also most Churches today, all you hear Jesus here and Jesus there. They seem to forget our Heavenly Father who is above all.
    Ephesians 4:6
    one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.”

    So in closing I would not bash each other as much as you have done.

    Be nice.

    I also find it so wrong to bring up Hitler. We were Babies at the time of that Dictator. All I remember is that you better kept your mouth shot or you would get shot. My Mother had to sign a paper that She would not have any more Children. My Grandmother had Asthma and I was the next Generation that would get that Disease. And guess what, I am sitting here with Oxygen on 24 Hours a day. My Asthma has turned into C.O.P.D.
    My age is also causing me so many problems, I think. At 71 I cannot go outside and sit in the Sun, because of my Lupus. I am forever looking forward to when Christ will come again and no more pain and no more sorrow. So I don't know your circumstances, but it is really so important to you to bash each other and bring things up, that we had no control over? IMO NO, NO, NO.
    Peace and Love Irene

    #142871
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Be nice.

    I know.

    Quote
    I remember is that you better kept your mouth shot or you would get shot. My Mother had to sign a paper that She would not have any more Children.

    And JW's had to sign a paper that said they were no longer JW's. And then they could go. It was that simple. Only a couple did.

    Quote
    I also find it so wrong to bring up Hitler. We were Babies at the time of that Dictator.

    I would be happy to discuss current beliefs only, with the Bible. I know he cannot do that. We haven't actually discussed anything.

    Quote
    All I remember is that you better kept your mouth shot or you would get shot.

    So, you were a Catholic back then, and you had to keep your mouth shut. On whose orders? JW's did not keep their mouths shut. Nor did they salute or heil Hitler.

    Quote
    So I don't know your circumstances, but it is really so important to you to bash each other and bring things up, that we had no control over

    Exactly, but if the same situation occured today, do you know what the Cathlics would be doing? Killing JW's, and killing Catholics, and killing protestants, and killing more Catholics. Nothing has changed. They are still mass murderers. The Rwandan genocide?

    Quote
    At 71 I cannot go outside and sit in the Sun, because of my Lupus.


    I am sorry to hear that. Understand that you are one of the nicest people on this forum. Probably more than anyone else, Catholics, because every relative I have is a Catholic and I know who they are and what they do, I get extremely frustrated when they dare speak of what is right, or even mention a Bible, as though they knew what it was. But yes, I felt bad doing what I did.

    CA, I'm sorry and would like to actually discuss scripture and what we both believe. Pick a topic. Michael if you wish, or whatever. Heaven, hell, earth, purgatory, immortal soul, trinity, christmas, cross, whatever…

    #143601

    Quote (david @ Aug. 28 2009,17:57)

    Quote
    Most Witnesses used to be Catholics

    CA, why do you think that is?


    You just can't stop using incomplete thoughts to advance your claims. Here's that sentence again for you:

    “Most Witnesses used to be Catholics or Protestants.”

    The reason is obvious. There are way too many uncatechised Catholics and the Protestants are such a varied category I can't begin to give all of the explanations for every strain of it.

    #143602

    David,

    What about armageddon, buddy?

    #144374

    Are They Awake on The Watchtower?

    They travel in pairs, carrying copies of their magazines. They’re Jehovah’s Witnesses (JWs), part of a non-Christian religion. Their publishing house—the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (WTS)—is headquartered in Brooklyn, New York, and publishes two magazines that appear twice each month: Awake!, which is a general interest magazine with occasional religious content, and The Watchtower, which more formally presents the doctrines and beliefs of the WTS and is usually intended for initiates or those who have at least expresssed an interest in knowing more about the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    It doesn’t take long, after browsing through a few issues, to learn that the Witnesses have a fixation with Catholicism. They devote an inordinate amount of space in their magazines to attacks on Catholic beliefs. On the whole, the debunking is done in a relatively inoffensive manner, but nonetheless it’s obvious which ecclesiastical organization is seen as the great enemy. (In the 1920s and 1930s—the era of “Judge” Rutherford, the second president of the WTS—the attacks on the Catholic Church were more virulent and direct, but the WTS has since toned down its approach.) Let’s look at representative issues, but first it’s necessary to understand the WTS’s use of anonymity in its articles and publications.

    Privacy at All Costs

    The officials in Brooklyn value anonymity highly. The Jehovah’s Witnesses publish their own translation of the Bible—the so-called New World Translation (NWT)—which was produced by committee, but the names of the committee members have not been revealed by the WTS. This version is used routinely—but not exclusively—in their publications. It should be noted that JWs will use other Bible translations, but only when it suits their purposes to do so.

    The NWT is universally rejected by non-Witnesses, including secular Greek and Hebrew scholars. These scholars, and informed critics of the Watchtower, speculate that few of the members who served on the committee were experienced as translators or even knew the rudiments of Hebrew or Greek; the NWT appears to be little more than a modification of already-existing English versions. It was by means of two former Witnesses, Bill Cetnar (who worked in the Brooklyn headquarters) and Raymond Franz (a former member of the WTS’s Governing Body) that the identity of the committee members became known and therefore that the scholars’ suspicions were confirmed. According to Cetnar and Franz, only one member of the committee (Frederick Franz, fourth WTS president and Raymond Franz’s uncle) studied biblical languages at all, and he studied non-biblical Greek for only two years.

    Also, with the exception of some personal testimony stories, readers of both magazines will fail to find the names of people who authored the various articles contained in them. The WTS does this partly because it supresses individuality within the organization and partly because it prevents the reader from examining an author’s requisite credentials to teach on the given subject matter. Witnesses are taught to submit to the WTS, not to question its publications. Consequently, the anonymity is understandable.

    Awake!

    The November 8, 1988, issue of Awake! features on its cover a painting of the Virgin and the title, “Mary: The Answer to World Crisis?” Inside are seven short articles about Mary and Marian devotion. All but one, a personal conversion story, are anonymous. The byline for the first, for instance, is this: “By Awake! correspondent in Italy.”

    The first article in Awake! is about a recent Marian year. Like other pieces Awake! has run about things Catholic, it takes swipes at the Church of Rome. The reader is told that “traditionalist Catholics” were pleased with the televised proclamation of the Marian Year, but “for others, both Catholics and non-Catholics, it was a useless waste of money, a ‘cosmic show’ of doubtful taste.”

    Why did Pope John Paul II proclaim a Marian year in the first place? Because, “for quite some time, in the more conservative Catholic spheres, there has been concern over the fact that Marian worship seems to have been obscured.” (Notice that Catholic doctrine has been subtly misrepresented. Catholics do not “worship” Mary, but they do honor and venerate her. Such misrepresentation is not an uncommon occurrence in the pages of WTS publications.) The writer says there were other motives—for instance, it was hoped that increased pilgrimages to Marian shrines would result in increased priestly vocations.

    Not all Catholics were pleased that a Marian year had been proclaimed. “Catholic priest Franco Barbero [otherwise unidentified] caused a stir when he publicly declared that he never prayed to Mary. In his ‘Letter to Mary,’ Barbero states that she has been crushed ‘under a mountain of dogmas, relics, devotionalisms, legends, superstition.’ The same priest has also stated that even ‘speaking of a “year of Mary” could raise legitimate perplexities.’”

    Madonna Worshipers?

    So far, these complaints sound as though they could come from any “Bible Christian” or even any secularist. But the Witnesses have twists of their own. The Awake! author asks why so many Catholics have become “Madonna worshipers.” He answers, “There are many reasons. Some of them stem directly from doctrines taught by the Catholic Church. For example, since the Church teaches that Jesus is equal to God, this leaves no independent intermediary between man and God. God and Christ, surrounded by an aura of Trinitarian mystery, are no longer approachable, and for this reason the role of ‘intermediary’ between the Divinity and humankind has been delegated to the ‘Madonna.’”

    These lines might be confusing to those who don’t realize that the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity. They believe that Jesus is not divine, is not the Second Person of the Trinity—in fact, that there is no Second Person, because there is no Trinity in their view. If Jesus is not divine, what is he? A creature, though the best of creatures. He was the first thing created by God and had a prehuman existence, and it was through him, as an agent, that God created everything else.

    Jesus Only an Archangel

    Still, he’s only a creature. The miracles he performed attested not to his own divinity, but to approval of him by God. In heaven, Jesus is now known as Michael. (This identification of Jesus and Michael the Archangel relies on Jude 9, Daniel 10:13 and 12:1, and Revelation 12:7-8. Read them for yourself and see how far-fetched this is.)

    What these beliefs of the Witnesses amount to is the ancient heresy of Arianism, which is nothing new. Athanasius battled it a millennium and a half ago. The Witnesses, in condemning Marian doctrines, often come up with reasons of their own, quite distinct from those given by Fundamentalists. Like Fundamentalists, they oppose giving Mary the title Theotokos (Greek for “One who bore God” or, less literally, “Mother of God”). “It does not appear in the Bible,” writes the anonymous author. Worse, “she cannot be described as the ‘Mother of God’ for the simple reason that Jesus was not ‘God the Son,’ but ‘the Son of God.’ The Trinity doctrine was no part of ancient Hebrew belief and is not taught in the Bible.”

    No Fundamentalist would argue like this. He would agree that the notion of Mary as Theotokos does not appear in the Bible (and he’d be wrong), but he’d never argue that Mary isn’t the Mother of God on the grounds that Jesus isn’t God. The Fundamentalist fully accepts our Lord’s divinity.

    Twisting Words

    Awake! is not adverse to misquoting and twisting the words of Catholic writers when doing so can help them slam the Church. Referring to Mary, the anonymous writer says, “The [Catholic] Church claims she was alway
    s virgin. While the Bible itself specifically states that Mary was ‘a virgin’ before giving birth to Jesus, ‘virginity after childbirth is not indicated in the New Testament,’ writes Catholic theologian [René] Laurentin.” This makes it seem that Laurentin, an expert in Mariology, disbelieves in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Quite the opposite. What he was saying is that the New Testament doesn’t say, in so many words, that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus’ birth—and it also doesn’t say she didn’t. But this quote is a typical example of how the WTS will cite sources in a selective and slanted manner: First, readers of WTS publications are never given the context of the sources cited. Second, the WTS will quote only a portion of relevant passages, giving the appearance that the author holds a view directly opposite of what he or she actually believes—and this opposite view conveniently supports WTS beliefs. Third, the WTS rarely provides sufficient references for their sources, leaving readers unable to check the sources for themselves.

    Perfectly good arguments can be made that the New Testament does, indeed, establish Mary’s perpetual virginity, but Laurentin was only acknowledging that we won’t find in the text a line that says, “And Mary never had any other children.” We are left to infer that from other facts given to us in the text.

    The Watchtower

    The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ other magazine is The Watchtower. Twenty-two million copies of each issue are printed in well over 100 languages, and about a third of those copies are in English. (Awake! has a somewhat smaller circulation.)

    The December 1, 1988, issue of The Watchtower features a photograph of a cathedral on its cover. Superimposed is the question, “What Traditions Please God?” Apparently not something like All Souls’ Day, which “seems strange or even bizarre to an outside observer.” And well it might, since we’re told that it and many other “religious traditions are plainly derived from, or at least [are] astonishingly similar to, non-Christian religious rites. For example, All Souls’ Day virtually parallels the Buddhist festival of ‘Ullambana,’ a day set aside for ‘the expression of filial piety to deceased ancestors and the release of spirits from bondage to this world.’” The New Encyclopedia Britannica is cited as the source of the last quotation. The (again) anonymous author asks, “Are followers of such traditions really worshipping in truth?” He refers the reader to John 4:23, “The true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth.”

    The Give-Away

    The next paragraph is a give-away. It throws a bright light on the author’s confusion. It says: “Some argue that the mere acceptance of traditions into the Church justifies them. Said the Second Vatican Council in 1965: ‘It is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same sense of devotion and reverence.’”

    The confusion here is equating mere traditions—customs or ways of doing things—with Tradition, the oral teaching given by Jesus to the apostles and passed through their successors, the bishops. Vatican II, in this passage, was talking about “upper-case” Tradition, not “lower-case” tradition. The writer for The Watchtower was either grossly ignorant of the meaning of Catholic terms, or he tried to pull a fast one here, knowing that the word “Tradition”—also called “sacred Tradition”—implies something other than mere “tradition”—or “human tradition.”

    Such an approach is not unusual for the WTS, which often misrepresents or confuses official Catholic doctrine, and then refutes the mistaken notion rather than the actual teaching. This approach is called the “straw man” tactic. The misrepresented belief, which is essentially “made of nothing” and thus called a “straw man,” is set up and then easily refuted or “knocked down.” To the unsuspecting person, this tactic makes the WTS appear quite scholarly and biblically astute. The danger, however, lies in the fact that the WTS is refuting beliefs and teachings which are not legitimate Catholic doctrine.

    All Souls’ Day is a custom the Church developed centuries after the apostles, not a doctrine. Yet when Vatican II speaks of Tradition, it refers only to those doctrines and practices which have been handed down from the apostles, either implicitly or explicitly. It is only the latter—those which have come down to us from the apostles—that are automatically accepted. Those invented later can be changed, modified, or even abandoned as needed.

    In any event, there is nothing wrong with All Souls’ Day. The Bible teaches that we should pray for the dead (2 Macc. 12:44-45—though Witnesses rely on the Protestant canon of Scripture, which cut this book out of the Bible). And no serious historian would claim that All Souls’ Day is in any way derived from the Buddhist festival Ullambana—though this is precisely the conclusion suggested from the way the WTS presents its sources.

    These are but a few examples of how the WTS distorts Catholic beliefs and presents “scholarship” in support of its views. These examples provide a “representative slice” of the thinking and modus operandi of the WTS, and they should serve as a warning signal for those unsuspecting people who open their doors to JWs and welcome their message. When dealing with WTS publications, be forewarned that the material exhibited there is distorted in such a way so as to present what appears to be a rather compelling case for WTS theology. But all that glitters is not gold.

    #144400
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    All Souls’ Day is a custom the Church developed centuries after the apostles. . . . In any event, there is nothing wrong with All Souls’ Day.

    “Essentially, All Souls [Day] is the adaptation of an almost worldwide custom of setting aside a part of the year (usually the last part) for the dead. The Babylonians observed a monthly Feast of All Souls in which sacrifices were made by priests.” –Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend (New York; 1949), Vol. 1, p. 38.

    For a group that adopts and sanctifies every pagan practice, belief and symbal they can get their hands on, I wouldn't expect you to think that All Soul's day is wrong. You believe in purgatory, and you don't mind pagan beliefs. So, it's a perfect fit.

    Both the Greeks and Romans also celebrated feasts for the dead, based on Babylonish paganism.

    The New Catholic Encyclopedia notes that “throughout the Middle Ages it was popular belief that the souls in purgatory could appear on this day [All Soul's day] as will-o’-the-wisps, witches, toads, etc.”

    Encyclopœdia Britannica (1946 edition, Vol. 1, page 666), that “certain popular beliefs connected with All Souls’ Day are of pagan origin.”

    Understandably, the early Christians held no celebration for the “souls” of the dead. They knew that the inspired Scriptures teach, “the soul that sinneth, the same shall die.” (Ezek. 18:4, Catholic Douay Version) Yes, they appreciated that the dead are truly dead, awaiting a resurrection.—Acts 24:15.

    david

    #155488
    georg
    Participant

    Quote (david @ Aug. 29 2009,10:40)

    Quote
    Be nice.

    I know.  

    Quote
    I remember is that you better kept your mouth shot or you  would get shot.  My Mother had to sign a paper that She would not have any more Children.

    And JW's had to sign a paper that said they were no longer JW's.  And then they could go.  It was that simple.  Only a couple did.

    Quote
    I also find it so wrong to bring up Hitler.  We were Babies at the time of that Dictator.

    I would be happy to discuss current beliefs only, with the Bible.  I know he cannot do that.  We haven't actually discussed anything.  

    Quote
    All I remember is that you better kept your mouth shot or you  would get shot.  

    So, you were a Catholic back then, and you had to keep your mouth shut.  On whose orders?  JW's did not keep their mouths shut.  Nor did they salute or heil Hitler.

    Quote
    So I don't know your circumstances, but it is really so important to you to bash each other and bring things up, that we had no control over

    Exactly, but if the same situation occured today, do you know what the Cathlics would be doing?  Killing JW's, and killing Catholics, and killing protestants, and killing more Catholics.  Nothing has changed.  They are still mass murderers.  The Rwandan genocide?

    Quote
    At 71 I cannot go outside and sit in the Sun, because of my Lupus.


    I am sorry to hear that.  Understand that you are one of the nicest people on this forum.  Probably more than anyone else, Catholics, because every relative I have is a Catholic and I know who they are and what they do, I get extremely frustrated when they dare speak of what is right, or even mention a Bible, as though they knew what it was.  But yes, I felt bad doing what I did.  

    CA, I'm sorry and would like to actually discuss scripture and what we both believe.  Pick a topic.  Michael if you wish, or whatever.  Heaven, hell, earth, purgatory, immortal soul, trinity, christmas, cross, whatever…


    Don't you know that I am from Germany, and yes we did have to keep our mouth shot, or die. So always get your facts straight before you accuse me or others for that matter of anything. We are talking about Hitler, I don't keep my mouth shot any longer here in America.
    We left the Catholic Church 24 years ago, and I don't want to remember the times there. We are now Americans and happy about it. As far as your Church is concerned, that is up to you what you want to do, I have nothing against you,
    Prove all things. That is what I am doing. We don't belong to any Church at all. Where we live its either Sabbath Keepers, or Catholics, or trinitarians. Since we left in 1985 God has shown us more truths. So I know that God is with us. And that is all I m concerned about.
    Peace and Love Irene

    #155607
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi David
    almost all books printed By Mr C T Russell contain mis conseption and interpretation of the scriptures if you want , i can help you to find the lies publish in the name of God (JEHOVAH).like the end in 1975,but there are a lot more prior to that date.

    #155610
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi all
    as for the believe in GOD and Christ as different beings and the Holy spirit not being a person this i think has not is origin whit the JW but whit ARIUS second century if i am not mistaken, i believe also the Issac Newton belong to that believe in is time.

    #155615

    CatholicApologist, I personally think it would be much more fun to talk about how demonic the RCC is.

    :cool:

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