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Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 18 2010,13:25) Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 18 2010,13:07) David, Thank you very much, I need as much wisdom as God will give me. One thing that poped into my mind about being perfect – When the man came up to Jesus and asked what he need to do to enherit eternal life. Jesus' reply was “you know the commandments………do these and you shall live” The man said he had done these since childhood, plus repayed wrong etc. Then Jesus looked at him with love and said” there is one more thing you must do- sell all you have, give it to the poor, and come and follow me.” To me, Jesus was saying that you always need to do better and you will always need mercy . Someone said on here that God wants you to be beaten into total submission to God, and I agree with that.(When I am weak, it is then that I am strong) peace-Mark
Hi Mike,Could Jesus have instead been referring to my explanation?
Perhaps that man inherited his wealth and thought he was righteous.
But if he acquires new wealth wile being righteous, then he is indeed perfect.
My explanation does NOT contradict Matt.4:48, Eph.3:13-14 and 2Tm.3:5, which yours seems to…Matt.4:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Eph.3:13-14 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth
be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine(NO PERFECTION),
by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;2Tm.3:5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power (OF PERFECTION) thereof: from such turn away.
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, What comes to my mind is the story in the gospel of two men came to the temple. One was a teacher of the law and one was a tax collector. The one stood in front with head unbowed declaring his “perfection”. The other beat his breast and not looking up begged for forgiveness. Jesus stated the penitant man was forgiven, while the other was not. My concience guides me to always try to do better, while not being overconfidant of forgiveness, a careful mingling of holding on and letting go. GodblessP.S. Ed, I am not denying the power of perfection, on the contrary- Jesus, my brother, God , and friend, is perfect. Perfectly perfect. Love and peace-Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 19 2010,06:21) P.S. Ed, I am not denying the power of perfection, on the contrary- Jesus, my brother, God , and friend, is perfect. Perfectly perfect. Love and peace-Mark
Hello Mark,As I understand the word “perfection” it is referring to being “complete”, and in Christ we are all complete and in God's eyes we are “perfect”. However, on this Earth we are still struggling to live rightly.
The Professor
Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 18 2010,22:23) Rokkaman, I am so sorry for taking your thread off course.
No biggie, my truth was identified and I am satisfied…now it seems your truth needed to be identified and satisified….so if you needed to do so on this thread, I am glad that it was a spark that guided you to the truth's of the Lord.
———-
One thing I want to point out, is for anyone saying… God is god, he is sovereign…he can do whatever he pleases.
———-
That is not a valid answer to this thread… even though you are right, true, and correct in making that statement… in which God is God, he can do what he wants and we are mere men.
———
It is important that God establishes himself among men, and that he creates a way for us to identify him.
If he didn't do this, then why would he get mad at us for Idolatry?
If God is God and can do things contrary to his own law…
then how do we discern him from a Golden Cow, or the sun, or any other forms of Idolatry?
We possibly can't….
————-
So the only way we can discern The God of the Jews as oppose to a pagan image and man made crap…
we need to observe his actions in accordance to his laws, nature and personality.
————-
well his act of telling Abraham to slaughter his son, and moses to slaughter his people…and many other situations would seemingly be out of character…
Therefore a man could not perceive whether it was God or The Devil speaking based on actions.
————-
But the resolution to the issue was found, when understanding “The Spirit of The Law” proceeds what is written.
Now if God asks a man to do something contrary to the written law, we can know if it is truly God speaking by observing if it is asked in The Spirit of Christ.
————–
Man has known since Adam that YHVH would redeem mankind through his Christ.
so if Abraham, or moses or anyone does anything in knowledge of redemption through the spirit of christ…
whether it breaks the written law or not…
it is Good and righteous.
————-
So for anyone here to say, God can do whatever he wants and we are not to question or understand it….
then that defeats the purpose of our creation.
God gave us a brain, he gave us comprehension
he gave us the ability to KNOW HIM.
and if we do not use those things to know HIM…
then I am afraid for your sake.
For such is the person that believes God can do things contrary to who he is…
is the person that can blindly follow a false God or false prophet.
Woe unto you, and seek the one and only true God.
Mikeangel,
I was not intentionally implying any criticism or rebuke in what I wrote. I was simply answering what I perceived your question to be according to what I myself have learned for God so far. I believe I do have a tendency of over answering a question and so may done that in my post. If so then please forgive my extraneousness.
I agree that God does “have mercy on whom he has mercy and compassion on whom he has compassion”. This is true as after all he is our maker and we are but a tiny part of his master plan which is righteous. Even though some are doomed to destruction he loves us all. Some do not understand that last and may be drawn to read our posts so it does not harm to discuss such issues.
Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 18 2010,22:21) P.S. Ed, I am not denying the power of perfection, on the contrary- Jesus, my brother, God , and friend, is perfect. Perfectly perfect. Love and peace-Mark
Hi Mike,What does perfection in Christ mean?
There is only one way to be perfect and that’s to stop sinning (Matt. 5:48)!
And can only be done with the Holy Spirit tabernacling on the inside (Heb. 8:10).A progression away from the old sinful nature:
1John has a progression away from sin. Starting at 1John 1:8:
“If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves”…
Sinners practice sin!Progressing to 1John 3:9: “Whoever is born of God does not commit sin;
For his seed remainith in him: and he cannot sin (AS A USUAL PRACTICE),
because he is borne of God.”
Practice of sin diminishes!Finishing in 1John 5:18: “We know that whosoever is borne of God SINNETH NOT;
But he that is begotten of God keepeth (GUARDS) himself,
and that wicked one (Satan) toucheth him not.
All sinning STOPS; fulfilling Matt. 5:48! (Eph.4:13)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2010,16:13) Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 18 2010,22:21) P.S. Ed, I am not denying the power of perfection, on the contrary- Jesus, my brother, God , and friend, is perfect. Perfectly perfect. Love and peace-Mark
Hi Mike,What does perfection in Christ mean?
There is only one way to be perfect and that’s to stop sinning (Matt. 5:48)!
And can only be done with the Holy Spirit tabernacling on the inside (Heb. 8:10).A progression away from the old sinful nature:
1John has a progression away from sin. Starting at 1John 1:8:
“If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves”…
Sinners practice sin!Progressing to 1John 3:9: “Whoever is born of God does not commit sin;
For his seed remainith in him: and he cannot sin (AS A USUAL PRACTICE),
because he is borne of God.”
Practice of sin diminishes!Finishing in 1John 5:18: “We know that whosoever is borne of God SINNETH NOT;
But he that is begotten of God keepeth (GUARDS) himself,
and that wicked one (Satan) toucheth him not.
All sinning STOPS; fulfilling Matt. 5:48! (Eph.4:13)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Everything is already perfect.God is perfect, how can he do anything that isn't perfect?
How can perfect spawn imperfection?
———
Unless they are one in the same.
Wisdom will teach you that imperfection is a necessary counterpart to what we humans call perfection.
YHVH on the other hand, is beyond the concept of perfection.
Even though perfection sounds like an absolute,
YHVH transcends anything creation can perceive as absolute.
——-
With that said, everything is already perfect for it's all a creation of God.
——-
A better term would be clean and unclean.
To stop sinning would make you clean, or from a humanistic perception… perfect….
but true perfection is already here.
Forgive me all. I have a very simple mind. David- As far as I know, perfect means without flaw. Complete means whole. So as far as being complete I totally agree with you. To believe in Gods son makes one complete. Ed-Same thought, but also you cannot not sin. IMO the reason for scriptures like what you quoted is to make you know how dependant on God's mercy each of us are. Rokkaman- I cannot comprehend God. I feel I know him from his son's teaching and example, but I will never be sure about the questions you proposed. This fits me- A man was determined to comprehend the mysterys of God. One day he was at the beach and fell asleep. He had a vision of a boy trying to fill up a hole in the sand with water. It of course always drained out. He said to him “no matter how many bucketfulls of water you pour in there, you will never fill it”. The boy answered “no matter how many hours you spend trying to comprehend God's mysteries, you never will either”. I guess in my humble opinion, that is my answer to the title of this thread. You never will understand God, if you did you would lose your mind or die. But like you said, you can know him. Peace and love-Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 19 2010,23:14) Ed-Same thought, but also you cannot not sin.
Hi Mike,Who taught you that LIE?
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeangel @ Aug. 19 2010,23:14) Forgive me all. I have a very simple mind. David- As far as I know, perfect means without flaw. Complete means whole. So as far as being complete I totally agree with you. To believe in Gods son makes one complete. Ed-Same thought, but also you cannot not sin. IMO the reason for scriptures like what you quoted is to make you know how dependant on God's mercy each of us are. Rokkaman- I cannot comprehend God. I feel I know him from his son's teaching and example, but I will never be sure about the questions you proposed. This fits me- A man was determined to comprehend the mysterys of God. One day he was at the beach and fell asleep. He had a vision of a boy trying to fill up a hole in the sand with water. It of course always drained out. He said to him “no matter how many bucketfulls of water you pour in there, you will never fill it”. The boy answered “no matter how many hours you spend trying to comprehend God's mysteries, you never will either”. I guess in my humble opinion, that is my answer to the title of this thread. You never will understand God, if you did you would lose your mind or die. But like you said, you can know him. Peace and love-Mark
Amen, this is the point i've been trying to make for a while.YHVH is unknowable.
The Word of God, is YHVH revealed.He is The Knowable THINGS OF YHVH.
therefore,
The Word of God is the closest human beings can perceive to be God.
Yet we are to reserve that space in our brains that The Word of God isn't God himself, but COMES FROM GOD THE FATHER THE SOURCE THE UNKNOWABLE.
——-
This is why some people dismiss Jesus Christ as being God and why others fight so much to prove he is.
because he is the only thing we can perceive to be God, but through his words and the bible… we are to reserve space and understanding that there is one that precedes him.
Think about
The Word of God… created all things by his hands, he walked with Adam and Eve in The Garden… he walked with Abraham, he spoke to moses, he spoke to elijah and enoch and the rest. He forgives, passes judgement….
The Word of God then subjegated himself, manifested in flesh, and was observed as the man we call Jesus Christ.
He was put on a cross, the flesh died, the spirit went to Abraham's Bosom and freed everyone…and was then ressurected from hades, back into The Flesh, shewn to a chosen few then ascended into heaven.
————–
The Word of God was acting on behalf of YHVH himself…
everything he does and is doing is all by the commanding of YHVH.
YHVH doesn't do anything himself…he can't (not that he can't as in capability, but he can't as in we could not perceive it…he definately can and has through The Word of God, so don't mix up what i'm trying to say)… he's to vast and too big and too infinite and to eternal to even be perceived.
So he manifested himself as The Word of God to act on his behalf within the constraints of creation.
———
This would appear as The Word of God being God himself… in which he is metaphorically… but it is to be understood that he is just a reflection or representation of The Unknowable YHVH.
Why do people not understand these things?
Hi RokkaMan,
'Help me understand god'; seems “your' not at all
interested in anyone helping you to understand God?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 20 2010,00:43) Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 19 2010,23:14) Ed-Same thought, but also you cannot not sin.
Hi Mike,Who taught you that LIE?
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
God. Peace.Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 20 2010,09:07) Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 19 2010,23:14) Forgive me all. I have a very simple mind. David- As far as I know, perfect means without flaw. Complete means whole. So as far as being complete I totally agree with you. To believe in Gods son makes one complete. Ed-Same thought, but also you cannot not sin. IMO the reason for scriptures like what you quoted is to make you know how dependant on God's mercy each of us are. Rokkaman- I cannot comprehend God. I feel I know him from his son's teaching and example, but I will never be sure about the questions you proposed. This fits me- A man was determined to comprehend the mysterys of God. One day he was at the beach and fell asleep. He had a vision of a boy trying to fill up a hole in the sand with water. It of course always drained out. He said to him “no matter how many bucketfulls of water you pour in there, you will never fill it”. The boy answered “no matter how many hours you spend trying to comprehend God's mysteries, you never will either”. I guess in my humble opinion, that is my answer to the title of this thread. You never will understand God, if you did you would lose your mind or die. But like you said, you can know him. Peace and love-Mark
Amen, this is the point i've been trying to make for a while.YHVH is unknowable.
The Word of God, is YHVH revealed.He is The Knowable THINGS OF YHVH.
therefore,
The Word of God is the closest human beings can perceive to be God.
Yet we are to reserve that space in our brains that The Word of God isn't God himself, but COMES FROM GOD THE FATHER THE SOURCE THE UNKNOWABLE.
——-
This is why some people dismiss Jesus Christ as being God and why others fight so much to prove he is.
because he is the only thing we can perceive to be God, but through his words and the bible… we are to reserve space and understanding that there is one that precedes him.
Think about
The Word of God… created all things by his hands, he walked with Adam and Eve in The Garden… he walked with Abraham, he spoke to moses, he spoke to elijah and enoch and the rest. He forgives, passes judgement….
The Word of God then subjegated himself, manifested in flesh, and was observed as the man we call Jesus Christ.
He was put on a cross, the flesh died, the spirit went to Abraham's Bosom and freed everyone…and was then ressurected from hades, back into The Flesh, shewn to a chosen few then ascended into heaven.
————–
The Word of God was acting on behalf of YHVH himself…
everything he does and is doing is all by the commanding of YHVH.
YHVH doesn't do anything himself…he can't (not that he can't as in capability, but he can't as in we could not perceive it…he definately can and has through The Word of God, so don't mix up what i'm trying to say)… he's to vast and too big and too infinite and to eternal to even be perceived.
So he manifested himself as The Word of God to act on his behalf within the constraints of creation.
———
This would appear as The Word of God being God himself… in which he is metaphorically… but it is to be understood that he is just a reflection or representation of The Unknowable YHVH.
Why do people not understand these things?
I cannot understand it, but all I know is=The Lord is One.The Lord is Jesus. The Lord is God the Father. The Lord is with us and speaks through God the holy sprit. 1 or 1+1+1 or 3 it's God to me.He is. I'm too busy depending on him to try to define him.Peace.Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 20 2010,13:04) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 20 2010,00:43) Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 19 2010,23:14) Ed-Same thought, but also you cannot not sin.
Hi Mike,Who taught you that LIE?
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
God. Peace.
Hi Mike,You should drop false doctrines; God don't teach lies!
Matt.5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as
your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
2Tm.3:5 Having a form of godliness, but
denying the power thereof: from such turn away.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgYou seem to believe what you profess like it was gospel. In my view, you are in line with the pharisees, who prided themselves on justifying themselves through the law. If thats what you believe and you sleep at night, good for you. It seems to me that you are of the type of person that will take one line of scripture and make it an absolute while ignoring the context, no offense. You quoted Matt-5v48. That is part of the whole sermon he gave on the mountainside. Before he said to be perfect, he also said that not the least letter of the law was abolished. Do you celebrate all the jewish holy days? If I walked up to you and smacked you, would you get up and ask me to smack you on the other side of your face? If I carjacked you at gunpoint, would you offer your wallet as well? These things also are in Matt 5. Do you honestly love your enemys? Do you even love me? I would almost bet my life you don't do all these things. Like I said before, I think God wants us to know how dependant on his mercy we are. Later in Matthew he seems to support my position even more. Matt 19 v17 Why do you question me about what is good. There is one who is good. Then he goes into what I stated before about telling him that if he wanted perfection that he needed to sell what he had and give it to the poor and follow him. Have you sold all your belongings? Are you traveling the country and giving te good news to sinners of all sorts like Jesus? Will you come wash my feet?
On 2 Tim 3:5, I don't understand why you think this makes any point into thinking you are perfect. I went there and I feel it describes someone who thinks that they are good in therselves. 2 tim ch 3- “there will be terrible times in the last days People will be lovers of themselves……boastful,proud…….without love,unforgiving……conceited…….having a form of godliness but denying its power” It seems to me thats you. You think that you are justified, perfect. I can counter the one sentance quotes you offer with context, such as James ch2v10 “whoever falls into sin on one point of the law,even though he keeps the entire remainder,has become guilty on all counts”. I love you Mr. Ed. Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 22 2010,06:25) You seem to believe what you profess like it was gospel. In my view, you are in line with the pharisees, who prided themselves on justifying themselves through the law. If thats what you believe and you sleep at night, good for you. It seems to me that you are of the type of person that will take one line of scripture and make it an absolute while ignoring the context, no offense. You quoted Matt-5v48. That is part of the whole sermon he gave on the mountainside. Before he said to be perfect, he also said that not the least letter of the law was abolished. Do you celebrate all the jewish holy days? If I walked up to you and smacked you, would you get up and ask me to smack you on the other side of your face? If I carjacked you at gunpoint, would you offer your wallet as well? These things also are in Matt 5. Do you honestly love your enemys? Do you even love me? I would almost bet my life you don't do all these things. Like I said before, I think God wants us to know how dependant on his mercy we are. Later in Matthew he seems to support my position even more. Matt 19 v17 Why do you question me about what is good. There is one who is good. Then he goes into what I stated before about telling him that if he wanted perfection that he needed to sell what he had and give it to the poor and follow him. Have you sold all your belongings? Are you traveling the country and giving te good news to sinners of all sorts like Jesus? Will you come wash my feet? On 2 Tim 3:5, I don't understand why you think this makes any point into thinking you are perfect. I went there and I feel it describes someone who thinks that they are good in therselves. 2 tim ch 3- “there will be terrible times in the last days People will be lovers of themselves……boastful,proud…….without love,unforgiving……conceited…….having a form of godliness but denying its power” It seems to me thats you. You think that you are justified, perfect. I can counter the one sentance quotes you offer with context, such as James ch2v10 “whoever falls into sin on one point of the law,even though he keeps the entire remainder,has become guilty on all counts”. I love you Mr. Ed. Mark
Mark,Very humorous way of putting Jesus' commands and right on.
We see that Jesus was persecuted for 3 1/2 years and still he loved his enemies and healed them, and taught them and fed them.
And died for them.
No greater love has any man than Jesus dying for them.
The Professor
Amen David. Glory to the true and perfect savior and messiah Lord Jesus. Peace to you and yours- Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Aug. 22 2010,16:20) Amen David. Glory to the true and perfect savior and messiah Lord Jesus. Peace to you and yours- Mark
Thanks Mark,In another thread they were asking what Jesus' name was before he came to earth.
To me, John 1:1 would be a good start:
“In the beginning” was “Word” or “dabar” in Hebrew, and it was “Word” OF God who was WITH God (and obvious not God whom he is WITH).
Now he is known as the “son” OF God.
What do you think? It this a possibility?
Understand God and understand His son.
The Professor
What do you think?
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