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Are you affirming what this guy is saying is a lie or denying what he is saying?
Of course I know the answer, but if someone came here not knowing your stance, they might not know.
Only time to look at one stu.
“He concluded from observing finches that bananas and finches are related.”
Yes you are right. They are not related. The common ancestor thing joins them up at some point. Yes a big stretch, that plants and animals came from a common ancestor.
Not a common ancestor, but a common creator. The creator can mix and match code when you look at the code base. After all the woman came from the man for example and of course the man has a female and male chromosome so it is possible when you look at the code.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 23 2008,11:39) Are you affirming what this guy is saying is a lie or denying what he is saying? Of course I know the answer, but if someone came here not knowing your stance, they might not know.
Only time to look at one stu.
“He concluded from observing finches that bananas and finches are related.”
Yes you are right. They are not related. The common ancestor thing joins them up at some point. Yes a big stretch, that plants and animals came from a common ancestor.
Not a common ancestor, but a common creator. The creator can mix and match code when you look at the code base. After all the woman came from the man for example and of course the man has a female and male chromosome so it is possible when you look at the code.
I am saying that these are lies. They are things unsupported and directly contradicted by the evidence. I ignored the parts that are wild speculation unsupported by evidence, I concentrated on the lies that can be disproven.It is a lie that the finches caused Darwin to determine common ancestry. You have spun that into another lie by misrepresentation, and added a new lie that common ancestry is 'a big stretch'. I am pleased at last to see you reveal a tiny bit of your Theory of Divine Creation though: “The creator can mix and match code when you look at the code base.” Of course it is genetically wrong that females have come from males. For at least hundreds of thousands of years before the time of the Adam and Eve myth (and almost certainly hundreds of millions of years) mitochondrial DNA has only been passed on from mothers to children. But don't let that put you off. I'm eagerly awaiting your mechanism for the creator mixing and matching code, and you explanation from how 'the code' supports your wrong assertion. That should be good for a laugh.
Stuart
Who me? I am not saying it.
Divine creation is not hard to understand though.
God created all things and he is not contained within this realm. So think of it like a programmer and his computer. Probably not a close analogy, but good enough to see that the one who creates is outside of his own creation.
There is either a God, or there isn't and singularities just don't appear from nothing and spit out code that is beyond any human programmer. Code from a micro or macro perspective just doesn't appear out of nothing. If you believe that, then you could be open to Santa Claus coming down the chimney or putting your next tooth under a pillow.
I believe that all things were created by a being/life that is beyond anything we can comprehend. When we look at the scale of this creation, it speaks a lot about the one who made it.
But of course you just believe that out of nothing and walla here is a banana. This is your belief and many do not hold your belief for good reason.
Psalm 22 is filled with predictions! I will show Psalm 22 in all it's fullness and but comentaries of how it relates to Christ even though it was like 1000 years before Christ, it's amazing!
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Jesus said this while he was on the cross! Just like this word for word!)
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel.4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.
(These verses are talking about Christians, read them and make a judgement, it's clear.)6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.
(The Bible says Jesus becam nothing, lowering Himself he became a servant. People hated him much like atheist and so many others hate Christians, they hate God and want nothing to do with God.)7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
(The Jews mocked Jesus while he was on the cross telling Him that if He is the Messiah to take Himself off that cross but they did not understand these prophecies wich I am trying to reveal to you.)8 “He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
(See!! They told Jesus to take Himself off the cross.)9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God.11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THESE VERSES! READ CAREFULLY! WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.
THEY HAVE PIERCED MY HANDS AND FEET! JESUS THE SAVIOR THEY HAVE NAILED HIM UPON THAT CROSS!17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.
JESUS' RIBS AND BONES WERE SHOWING AND THEY WERE ALL POPPED OUT OF JOINT!18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.
AWESOME!! THE BIBLE SAYS THE ROMANS CAST LOTS ON JESUS' CLOTHES!! HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PROPHECY IN THIS? YOU ARE SPIRITUALY DISCERNED.19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.And Stu, ALL the Gospel writers knew Jesus, most of them spent 3 years with them, and the ones that wern't with Jesus like the Apostle Luke got his information from the Aspostle Peter. Why would a brother of Christ lie to another brother of Christ? Especially if the brother in Christ has been with Jesus.
t8
Quote God created all things and he is not contained within this realm.
What do you mean by realm? If you mean observable universe then you should give up now because your god is not observable and therefore you cannot know whether there is such a thing. It is blind faith asserted in direct contradiction of the evidence we have that if there was a designer then he is incompetent. Did god create the realm that contains him? Did he create himself?Quote So think of it like a programmer and his computer. Probably not a close analogy, but good enough to see that the one who creates is outside of his own creation.
Analogy is not evidence.Quote There is either a God, or there isn't and singularities just don't appear from nothing and spit out code that is beyond any human programmer.
What singularity didn’t produce what code?Quote Code from a micro or macro perspective just doesn't appear out of nothing.
Huh? What on earth does that mean?Quote I believe that all things were created by a being/life that is beyond anything we can comprehend. When we look at the scale of this creation, it speaks a lot about the one who made it.
I believe that you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.Quote But of course you just believe that out of nothing and walla here is a banana. This is your belief and many do not hold your belief for good reason.
It’s voila, not walla.Stuart
Quote And Stu, ALL the Gospel writers knew Jesus, most of them spent 3 years with them, and the ones that wern't with Jesus like the Apostle Luke got his information from the Aspostle Peter. Why would a brother of Christ lie to another brother of Christ? Especially if the brother in Christ has been with Jesus.
Why would christians lie about science?I guess it would be nice to believe the dogma that the cannonical gospels were written by people who knew Jesus but it is almost certainly true that none of the authors did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospels#Dating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_JohnStuart
Trev your apology for Psalm 22 is just a case of the gospel writers writing a fictional account in order to fulfil prophecy. You are trying to buy lottery tickets after the draw has been made. I think the most revealing case is the way that Matthew has put into Jesus's mouth the words “…why hast thou forsaken me…”. He was obviously keen to show the Psalmist's prophecy fulfilled (it is not written as a prophecy in any case) but has slipped up by forgetting that Jesus knew all along that he would be sacrificed as a 'saviour'. In film and television that is known as a continuity error, and does not tend to happen if the story is not fictional.
Stuart
Quote Creation, wishful mythology?! lol Seriosly dude, science points toward God and the creation, evolution is based off of so called “scientific proofs” that were proven wrong 100 years ago. A evolutionist once said that all evidence points towards a Creator but he said he chooses not to believe just because he doesn't want to, I'l lfind that quote but evoltion is a lie, and God exist whether you believe it or not, your theory doesn't change God's reality.
Will you accept my challenge to present a short summary of the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection, which details what biologists say about evolution?Stuart
Quote (treverend @ Aug. 22 2008,16:07) And did you ever hear of VenomFangX on YouTube? I think you should watch some of his videos. http://www.youtube.com/venomfangx
If you want the real stuff, try https://www.youtube.com/Thunderf00t instead of a Kent Hovind wannabe. I wonder how Kent is making out in prison?So Stu do you think that… even if Jesus existed that His followers made up the miricles that He did and the prophecy that He fulfilled? And why would they do that? The Apostle Paul was a Jewish Pharisee before Jesus came to him, why would the Jewish people leave behind their expectations of a Savior to follow a false one? And also Stu, I find this verse last night.
Galatians 1:20
Also about when I said why would the Apostles die for a lie, the Islamic connection you made with that just doesn't make sence. Christians and Jews say I will die for what I believe but a Muslim would say you will die for what I believe, see the difference? People won't just die for a lie and suffer persecution, sure people might kill in the name of a lie and a false God (because any god that would tell his people to kill, what kind of god is that?) but would you die for it, would they preach it even at gunpoint? The Apostles did not do this in vain, they did not give glory to a lie but to God. Now I love Muslims and I understand most of them are not radical, I know a missionary family from Jordan because the wife of that family used to go to my Church and they came back to share how their ministry is going and I to might be a missionary to Muslims for awhile, I'm not sure yet, but I'm not against the people in Islam, I hate the religion of Islam as does God because it is a lie from Satan but we are to love the people that were decepted by Satan's lies, such as you and evolution. Christianity is not a religion, religion = hate. Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ, and that's it.
I know about Thunderf00T, and and did you say real stuff? How do you know evolution is real stuff? It's not science that's for sure, atheist have to except is by faith, it cannot be tested and analyzed in a lab or observed therefor the theory of evolution = not true science and it should not be taught to kids in schools because it is unproven and it's one of the greatest lies in modern times. Also, for Stu, Galatians 1:20 says…
20I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.
Would Paul really assure before a God that he believed in if he was telling lies? I wouldn't. An Paul had WAY more faith than me and therfore obviously he would not.
kejonn I don't know the story behind all that but no one is perfect, you can't judge Kent by his actions, tell me the full story first, I heard that he didn't pay any taxes but he didn't know he had to since most ministries are tax exempt and supported by donations. As far as I know anyways, I'm only 15 so obviously I don't know much about money stuff, lol. And Stu, biologist say that evolution is true, I know they do, but for the scientist who are honest with themselves and are open minded and not biased on any side will see the evidence and know for sure that it was itelligently designed, now not all these biologist bbelieve in any certain God but they do believe it was designed. As to that I say right on! Look at so many of the animals. You have to be blind to not see the design in all creation.
And kejonn before you say that evoltion isn't proven but neither is God, let me tell you this. God doesn't have to be proven. He is revealed to those who earnestly seek Him though. And Jesus said blessed are those who believe and have not seen. God is outside of this world, in a spiritual world, and He does not have to be proven, He wants His children to believe and trust in Him by faith and in truth. Also did either of you ever hear of Laminin? It's the thing that holds our bodies together, they are cell adhesion molocules. They are in the PERFECT shape of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Bible says Jesus holds everything together! How true! Right now there are millions of tiny crosses holding you together, isn't that crazy?! God said He is Maker of all things, visible, and invisible. that doesn't leave much room for the theory of evolution or the big bang theory, now does it?
Hi Trev
Quote So Stu do you think that… even if Jesus existed that His followers made up the miricles that He did and the prophecy that He fulfilled?
Yes. You just have to look at the history of christianity since then to realise how much is invented. In my opinion the entire of body of doctrine is historical fiction. Why has the Catholic church just deinvented limbo? Easy come easy go, especially when the dogma is no longer politically convenient. If you think your version of christianity is immune, I think you have not gone into it deeply enough. You certainly need to learn about what is right and wrong in the bible.Quote Also about when I said why would the Apostles die for a lie, the Islamic connection you made with that just doesn't make sence. Christians and Jews say I will die for what I believe but a Muslim would say you will die for what I believe, see the difference?
A suicide bomber dies for what he believes. He does not care for the people he kills, they are just part of the terms and conditions of the deal.Quote … I hate the religion of Islam as does God because it is a lie from Satan but we are to love the people that were decepted by Satan's lies, such as you and evolution. Christianity is not a religion, religion = hate. Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ, and that's it.
Muslims feel exactly the same way about christianity. Because your beliefs are based in faith (without evidence) you have no way of telling whether they have it right or you have. How can you tell? Do you hear the voice of god? Even then should you not question it?Quote How do you know evolution is real stuff? It's not science that's for sure, atheist have to except is by faith, it cannot be tested and analyzed in a lab or observed therefor the theory of evolution = not true science and it should not be taught to kids in schools because it is unproven and it's one of the greatest lies in modern times.
If you are posting in New Zealand, then you are not even old enough to have done the Yr13 section of the biology course of NCEA that deals with evolution. I repeat my challenge to you to describe evolution the way a biologist would. Otherwise you have no credibility. You are free to try and disprove evolution by natural selection. That has not been done in 150 years. Chemistry and physics have been overturned in that time but Darwin’s theory remains the central organising principle of biology after all this time. You calling it a satanist lie is irrelevant, I’m afraid.Quote Would Paul really assure before a God that he believed in if he was telling lies? I wouldn't. An Paul had WAY more faith than me and therfore obviously he would not.
Yes, Paul was even more deluded than you. That is an unkind thing to say to a young person, but you have volunteered for this argument by shouting a list of things you are yet to learn. I don’t mean to patronise you, I mean to encourage you. If you must attack evolution, do it from a position of knowledge not ignorance. I predict you will find it harder to attack if you understand what Darwin’s theory actually says and not pay so much attention to the venom you are being fed by someone.Quote … you can't judge Kent by his actions, tell me the full story first, I heard that he didn't pay any taxes but he didn't know he had to since most ministries are tax exempt and supported by donations.
Kent Hovind is a malicious liar. He knows full well that he is lying yet he does not seem concerned about burning for bearing false witness. Do you think it is a good idea that churches and organisations like Hovind’s have a charitable status that means others have to pay more taxes so they can afford to prostyletise and buy private jets? (I know, that is Benny Hinn, but you must understand I think of them all the same!)Quote And Stu, biologist say that evolution is true, I know they do, but for the scientist who are honest with themselves and are open minded and not biased on any side will see the evidence and know for sure that it was itelligently designed, now not all these biologist bbelieve in any certain God but they do believe it was designed. As to that I say right on! Look at so many of the animals. You have to be blind to not see the design in all creation.
4% of scientists think that way. 96% reject creationism. The 4% are almost all fundamentalists.Quote God doesn't have to be proven.
Gods cannot be proven or disproven. However, it is the believer that is making the extraordinary claim. What a shame none of them can provide extraordinary evidence for it. Think of all the gods that have ever been believed in. We both reject all of them except one. I then go just one god further. Why do you reject all the others?Quote He is revealed to those who earnestly seek Him though. And Jesus said blessed are those who believe and have not seen.
That’s Paul talking. What a snaky politician he was.Quote God is outside of this world, in a spiritual world, and He does not have to be proven, He wants His children to believe and trust in Him by faith and in truth.
If he is outside this world, how can you know what he wants?Quote Also did either of you ever hear of Laminin? It's the thing that holds our bodies together, they are cell adhesion molocules. They are in the PERFECT shape of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Bible says Jesus holds everything together! How true! Right now there are millions of tiny crosses holding you together, isn't that crazy?! God said He is Maker of all things, visible, and invisible. that doesn't leave much room for the theory of evolution or the big bang theory, now does it?
What kind of cult have you got involved with? I fe
ar for you!Stuart
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