Hellenistic origins of christianity

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  • #158018
    gollamudi
    Participant

    But I am in great dilemma to prove which is the true scripture inspired by God.

    #158022
    gollamudi
    Participant

    The Bible does NOT teach:

    – that the Sovereign Almighty Creator of all things, had a beginning.
    – that the word G-d is a proper pagan substitute for the Creator's name “YHWH” (Yahweh).
    – that the name J-sus is the proper name for Yahshua, the only begotten son of Yahweh.
    – that the Son of Yahweh, existed co-eternally, with Sovereign Creator Spirit Yahweh.
    – that Yahweh created the globe and all things in 7 literal 24-hour days.
    – that the Sovereign Almighty Creator Spirit Yahweh violates His laws of science.
    – that Adam and Eve were the first people on the globe.
    – that Adam and Eve are the parents of all the various colored races on the globe.
    – that the man in Eden that tempted and spoke to Adam and Eve, was a literal snake.
    – that angels (celestial beings) can have intercourse with daughters of men.
    – that Noah's flood covered the entire globe and killed all breathing life.
    – that Scripture is the history and record for all the various races on the globe.
    – that the laws of Yahweh, given only to Israel, are for all the races on the globe.
    – that Yahweh is a trinity (three persons in one being) Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    – that Yahshua Messiah was not able to sin.
    – that every word in the Bible is without error and inspired by Yahweh.
    – that there is a place of eternal hell fire.
    – that the globe is under the rule of a Devil, Satan, Lucifer, or other created being.
    – that Satan, Devils and Demons can possess and enter into the mind of a man or woman.
    – that celestial messengers (angels) of Yahweh can sin and challenge the ONE who Created them.
    – that there was a war in heaven, featuring rebellious angels fighting good angels.
    – that it is possible for a God to die.
    – that physical (terrestrial) men can see the Sovereign Almighty Creator Yahweh.
    – that Mary the mother of Yahshua was born without sin.”
    – that the Kingdom of God, or of heaven, is coming in the future.
    – that the Kingdom of God, or of heaven is “the church” or physical.
    – that Yahshua the Messiah was executed on a Christian cross having a horizontal cross member.
    – that there will be a Second Coming, to begin the earthly reign of Yahshua.
    – that there will be a literal thousand-year reign by Yahshua on earth.
    – that there will be a future rapture of the saints out of the world.
    – that the resurrection from the dead is only for faithful believers.
    – that the book of Revelation deals with future prophecy applicable in this age.
    – that any books of the Bible, including the book of Revelation were written after AD 70.
    – that the fictional, non-historical Book of Ester belongs in Scripture.
    – that the Scriptures are limited to the current 66 books in the current Bible.
    – that the Sabbath, the seventh day, was changed to a Sunday, the 1st day of the week.
    – that sprinkling is a correct form to demonstrate Baptismal repentance
    – that Baptism is done by invoking the Christian “Trinity.”
    – that without the Gospel message, or faith in Yahshua, there is no salvation.
    – that Yahshua was a human sacrifice for the sins of the world.
    – that Yahweh would accept a human sacrifice for anyone's sin.
    – that Yahshua Messiah was not a physical descendant of King David
    – that the earth and everything on it will be destroyed with fire.
    – that heaven is a physical place for believers to go after death.
    – that homosexuality is a life style permitted in Scripture.
    – that marriage with an unbeliever, or miscegenation among the races is permitted.
    – that Jews are related to the historical Scriptural Israelite tribe of Yahudah.
    – that Jews are true descendants of Shem, or that Jews are even Shemites.
    – that the Jewish people are Yahweh's chosen people, and descendants of Abraham.
    – that the modern state of Israel is found in future Bible prophecy.

    Source: http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/Documents/Doctrinesrejected.htm

    #158026
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 21 2009,15:52)
    But I am in great dilemma to prove which is the true scripture inspired by God.


    I can only tell you what little I know.  The question is whether you hunger and thirst for righteousness.  If you do then the teaching of how to achieve it exists in scripture though it may take great effort to extract it.

    Jesus boldly promises that those that have a deep need for it will obtain it if they obey all of his teachings.   We are taught that those who walk according to the ways of the Spirit do obtain it.

    Any Jew or Christian that is truly seeking God will believe that promise and beg God to show them the way.

    #158090
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi gollamudi
    it seems to me that you have study the bible ,it seems that you have made your mind to wath is true and wath is not ,
    why ask any of us to argue on wath is firmly in your mind.

    maybe you should read it again and get some insight ,and show us how you came to that conclution ?????????????????

    #161744
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Jesus did not talk about the atonement and that this innovation came from Paul of Tarsus. It is to Paul that Christianity should trace its roots. The origins of Christianity as we know it came, not from Jesus, but from Paul.
    The leadership and importance of James, brother of Jesus, was suppressed by the developing Gentile Church but it is through James that we would most likely be able to trace the original teachings of the earthly Jesus.
    The original followers, the successor to James and the apostles of Jesus (whether they number twelve or not), were the Jewish Christians (called Nazarenes and Ebionites), who never preached of a heavenly divine Jesus. They fought Pauline Christianity to the end of their days.

    #161746
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 02 2009,12:32)
    Jesus did not talk about the atonement and that this innovation came from Paul of Tarsus. It is to Paul that Christianity should trace its roots. The origins of Christianity as we know it came, not from Jesus, but from Paul.
    The leadership and importance of James, brother of Jesus, was suppressed by the developing Gentile Church but it is through James that we would most likely be able to trace the original teachings of the earthly Jesus.
    The original followers, the successor to James and the apostles of Jesus (whether they number twelve or not), were the Jewish Christians (called Nazarenes and Ebionites), who never preached of a heavenly divine Jesus. They fought Pauline Christianity to the end of their days.


    I do not believe that it is correct to donate certain sects of Christianity as Pauline Christianity. I do know that the Nazarene and Ebionite sects existed but I know very little about them and that is mostly rumors put forth by their foes. I do know that I believe there still exist a sect that holds to the true teachings of Jesus the Anointed One. That sect may have at one time been called either Ebionite or/and Nazarene. All I know is that the prophecy of Revelations seems to state the true church hid in the desert. I know one day it will come out of hiding but it does not seem that day has yet arrived.

    #162046
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2009,18:11)

    Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 02 2009,12:32)
    Jesus did not talk about the atonement and that this innovation came from Paul of Tarsus. It is to Paul that Christianity should trace its roots. The origins of Christianity as we know it came, not from Jesus, but from Paul.
    The leadership and importance of James, brother of Jesus, was suppressed by the developing Gentile Church but it is through James that we would most likely be able to trace the original teachings of the earthly Jesus.
    The original followers, the successor to James and the apostles of Jesus (whether they number twelve or not), were the Jewish Christians (called Nazarenes and Ebionites), who never preached of a heavenly divine Jesus. They fought Pauline Christianity to the end of their days.


    I do not believe that it is correct to donate certain sects of Christianity as Pauline Christianity.   I do know that the Nazarene and Ebionite sects existed but I know very little about them and that is mostly rumors put forth by their foes.  I do know that I believe there still exist a sect that holds to the true teachings of Jesus the Anointed One. That sect may have at one time been called either Ebionite or/and Nazarene.  All I know is that the prophecy of Revelations seems to state the true church hid in the desert.   I know one day it will come out of hiding but it does not seem that day has yet arrived.


    Hi brother Kerwin,
    Here is the link for that information on Ebionites & Nazarenes.
    http://www.ancientpaths.org/APJTnazandeb.html

    #162057
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 04 2009,14:53)

    Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2009,18:11)

    Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 02 2009,12:32)
    Jesus did not talk about the atonement and that this innovation came from Paul of Tarsus. It is to Paul that Christianity should trace its roots. The origins of Christianity as we know it came, not from Jesus, but from Paul.
    The leadership and importance of James, brother of Jesus, was suppressed by the developing Gentile Church but it is through James that we would most likely be able to trace the original teachings of the earthly Jesus.
    The original followers, the successor to James and the apostles of Jesus (whether they number twelve or not), were the Jewish Christians (called Nazarenes and Ebionites), who never preached of a heavenly divine Jesus. They fought Pauline Christianity to the end of their days.


    I do not believe that it is correct to donate certain sects of Christianity as Pauline Christianity.   I do know that the Nazarene and Ebionite sects existed but I know very little about them and that is mostly rumors put forth by their foes.  I do know that I believe there still exist a sect that holds to the true teachings of Jesus the Anointed One. That sect may have at one time been called either Ebionite or/and Nazarene.  All I know is that the prophecy of Revelations seems to state the true church hid in the desert.   I know one day it will come out of hiding but it does not seem that day has yet arrived.


    Hi brother Kerwin,
    Here is the link for that information on Ebionites & Nazarenes.
    http://www.ancientpaths.org/APJTnazandeb.html


    I am of the opinion there were probably a number of sects that were collectively refereed to as Nazarenes/Ebionites. I know there were other Jewish Christian sects with a gnostic flare as well.

    Have you ever read the account of Paul's visit to the church at Jerusalem which is reported in the book of Acts? Have you compared that description to the commentary you just linked to about the Nazarenes and Ebionites? Have you considered why James and the church in Jerusalem instructed the Gentiles to be treated differently than the Jews?

    #170986
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Paul and the Origins of Christianity

    •Jesus did not talk about the atonement and that this innovation came from Paul of Tarsus. It is to Paul that Christianity should trace its roots. The origins of Christianity as we know it came, not from Jesus, but from Paul.
    •The leadership and importance of James, brother of Jesus, was suppressed by the developing Gentile Church but it is through James that we would most likely be able to trace the original teachings of the earthly Jesus.
    •The original followers, the successor to James and the apostles of Jesus (whether they number twelve or not), were the Jewish Christians (called Nazarenes and Ebionites), who never preached of a heavenly divine Jesus. They fought Pauline Christianity to the end of their days.

    Source: http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/paulorigin.html

    #170997
    kerwin
    Participant

    gollamudi,

    I am not going to agree with you that Jesus did not talk about the atonement as he did speak of his need to die on the cross.   Any Jew should know that the wages of sin is death.  If a sin is committed then there must be a death.  Under the Law of Mosses animal were allowed to stand in.   Under the New Covenant Jesus who did not sin accepted our penalty for himself.  In doing so he removed an obstacle for us being reconciled to God.  Once again any Jew should know this as it is written the sin separates us from God.  

    There is more to the gospel than that since one must also receive and walk according to the Spirit.

    #172449
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi brother Kerwin,
    Christianity had developed its Christology as the time progressed. The N.T writers had put words in Jesus' mouth to prove their dogma. But they were mere human beings therefore they created havoc on the religion of Christianity by way of misinterpreting Jewish scriptures.

    Please think over.
    Adam

    #172456
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 22 2010,11:48)
    Hi brother Kerwin,
    Christianity had  developed its Christology as the time progressed. The N.T writers had put words in Jesus' mouth to prove their dogma. But they were mere human beings therefore they created havoc on the religion of Christianity by way of misinterpreting Jewish scriptures.

    Please think over.
    Adam


    I do not see where they misinterpreted scripture.  I see where they used it differently that the Greeks would use it.   Then again they were not Greeks.  

    The Greeks on the other hand have influenced our culture.  By our I am including those that call themselves Jews.

    Have you considered the Gabriel tablet?

    #172468
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Here is good article on “How Paul Invented Christianity”

    http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0582PaulChristianity.php

    #172471
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 22 2010,13:18)
    Here is good article on “How Paul Invented Christianity”

    http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0582PaulChristianity.php


    The problem with that article is that the gospel of Jesus is the same before Paul appeared on the scene. Only those who are blinded to the truth do not realized that. It was Jesus who stated in Matthew that “blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled”. Paul agreed with Jesus when he spoke to the Romans about the righteousness that comes through faith in Jesus the Messiah. Any Jew should realize an individual that obtains this righteousness that is like God's is in complete obedience to the Law of Mosses. In other words do as Paul instructed the Galatians and live by the Spirit and you will do what the Law of Mosses requires.

    The question is “do you believe?”

    #172475
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2010,18:30)

    Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 22 2010,13:18)
    Here is good article on “How Paul Invented Christianity”

    http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0582PaulChristianity.php


    The problem with that article is that the gospel of Jesus is the same before Paul appeared on the scene.  Only those who are blinded to the truth do not realized that.  It was Jesus who stated in Matthew that “blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled”.  Paul agreed with Jesus when he spoke to the Romans about the righteousness that comes through faith in Jesus the Messiah.  Any Jew should realize an individual that obtains this righteousness that is like God's is in complete obedience to the Law of Mosses.  In other words do as Paul instructed the Galatians and live by the Spirit and you will do what the Law of Mosses requires.

    The question is “do you believe?”


    Hi brother kerwin,
    Who is Paul to say that belief in Jesus will bring in righteousness?

    Do the Hebrew scriptures says so and where?

    #172482
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 22 2010,14:04)

    Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2010,18:30)

    Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 22 2010,13:18)
    Here is good article on “How Paul Invented Christianity”

    http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0582PaulChristianity.php


    The problem with that article is that the gospel of Jesus is the same before Paul appeared on the scene.  Only those who are blinded to the truth do not realized that.  It was Jesus who stated in Matthew that “blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be filled”.  Paul agreed with Jesus when he spoke to the Romans about the righteousness that comes through faith in Jesus the Messiah.  Any Jew should realize an individual that obtains this righteousness that is like God's is in complete obedience to the Law of Mosses.  In other words do as Paul instructed the Galatians and live by the Spirit and you will do what the Law of Mosses requires.

    The question is “do you believe?”


    Hi brother kerwin,
    Who is Paul to say that belief in Jesus will bring in righteousness?

    Do the Hebrew scriptures says so and where?


    The Hebrew Scriptures do say so.  That is why the prophets looked forward to the coming Anointed One so eagerly.  

    Here is where the prophet Jeremiah speaks of it.

    Jeremiah 31:31-33(NIV) reads:

    Quote

    “The time is coming,” declares the LORD,
          “when I will make a new covenant
          with the house of Israel
          and with the house of Judah.

    It will not be like the covenant
          I made with their forefathers
          when I took them by the hand
          to lead them out of Egypt,
          because they broke my covenant,
          though I was a husband to them, “
          declares the LORD.

    “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
          after that time,” declares the LORD.
          “I will put my law in their minds
          and write it on their hearts.
          I will be their God,
          and they will be my people.

    The question is do you understand it.

    This is what Ezekiel states:

    Ezekiel 11:16-21(NIV) reads:

    Quote

    “Therefore say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.' “They will return to it and remove all its vile images and detestable idols. I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God. But as for those whose hearts are devoted to their vile images and detestable idols, I will bring down on their own heads what they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD.”

    I am not sure of Ezekiel but it certainly sound like the promise of the Spirit of Righteousness.

    Here is where Isaiah states it:

    Isaiah 61:1-3(NIV) reads:

    Quote

    The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,
          because the LORD has anointed me
          to preach good news to the poor.
          He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
          to proclaim freedom for the captives
          and release from darkness for the prisoners,

    to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor
          and the day of vengeance of our God,
          to comfort all who mourn,

    and provide for those who grieve in Zion—
          to bestow on them a crown of beauty
          instead of ashes,
          the oil of gladness
          instead of mourning,
          and a garment of praise
          instead of a spirit of despair.
          They will be called oaks of righteousness,
          a planting of the LORD
          for the display of his splendor.

    #172671
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi brother Kerwin,
    You have quoted so many scriptures from O.T, can you give me one scripture which states that the belief in Jesus is required for personal Salvation?

    #172676
    chosenone
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 23 2010,16:28)
    Hi brother Kerwin,
    You have quoted so many scriptures from O.T, can you give me one scripture which states that the belief in Jesus is required for personal Salvation?


    May I answer that question?

    Acts 16:30-31 …”Masters, what must I be doing that I may be saved?”
    31 Now they say, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household.”

    Your Wecome, Jerry.

    #172678
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 23 2010,11:28)
    Hi brother Kerwin,
    You have quoted so many scriptures from O.T, can you give me one scripture which states that the belief in Jesus is required for personal Salvation?


    Isaiah is the prophet that spoke of that.

    Isaiah 28:16(NIV) reads:

    Quote

    So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
          “See, I lay a stone in Zion,
          a tested stone,
          a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
          the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

    and another that is more cryptic.

    Isaiah 8:14(NIV) reads:

    Quote

    and he will be a sanctuary;
          but for both houses of Israel he will be
          a stone that causes men to stumble
          and a rock that makes them fall.
          And for the people of Jerusalem he will be
          a trap and a snare.

    It is also self evident since you have to believe that the promise of righteousness and that promise is sealed by the blood of Jesus the Anointed One.

    Note:  You are judged according to what you know.

    #172681
    terraricca
    Participant

    Goll
    here is one in TO
    Dt 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me. He will be one of your own people. You must listen to him.

    is this clear enough???

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