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See this amazing Video on people who have gone there.
I just finished watching the video. I have been beyond death's door
Beyond hell's gate
Past the point of “Nevermore”
Far far past “Too late!”There is something the doctors call “clinical death.” And there is something they call Biological death or brain death. People are often clinically dead, (meaning the heart has stopped and the body isn't breathing) but they are not truly dead, not biologically dead. The ultimate cause of death is always lack of oxygen. When the brain is deprived of oxygen for too long, all kinds of crazy things happen to the brain. Scientists have created this condition and similar results have happened. The after death experience, the white light, the tunnel effect have all been caused by scientists in experiments.
People with religious beliefs interpret these effects in the way they wish. But because this effect can be created and has been created by neurologists or brain doctors or whatever they are called, you can't really look at those experiences as proof of anything.The Bible says that when you die, you are conscience of nothing at all. (Ps 146:4,5; Eccl 5:9,10)
I believe we are far better off going with those words, in God's inspired word.Wait. Nick's a doctor. He should know all about this. Nick. Any comments?
Here are those scriptures I mentioned above:
PSALM 146:4-5
“His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish. Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help, Whose hope is in Jehovah his God,”ECCLESIASTES 9:5
“For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.”ECCLESIASTES 9:10
“All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.”Clearly, when a person dies, his “thoughts perish.”
“As for the dead, THEY ARE CONSCIOUS OF NOTHING at all.”The near death experience, I am not commenting on. I don't have any clue about whether it is real or not. However, the dead are conscious they are exactly where the bible says they are in hades.
They are either with Lazarus or they are with the rich man.
What you call a pagan parable Christians called orthadox for hundred of years. Catholics turned it into purgatory and Protestants just skipped it altogether and said Paradise (abraham's bosom) is heaven and hades is Hell or a premature Lake of Fire.
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,15:26) The near death experience, I am not commenting on. I don't have any clue about whether it is real or not. However, the dead are conscious they are exactly where the bible says they are in hades. They are either with Lazarus or they are with the rich man.
What you call a pagan parable Christians called orthadox for hundred of years. Catholics turned it into purgatory and Protestants just skipped it altogether and said Paradise (abraham's bosom) is heaven and hades is Hell or a premature Lake of Fire.
Hi Morning Star:What Jesus relates through the story or parable, whatever you might call it, has been something that I have had trouble understanding, and you may be right in saying that dead whether they are in Christ or not are conscious and are aware of their destiny. As I understand it, the soul is asleep at least when the dead were in Christ.
Or perhaps when a person dies they are given a glimpse of whether they are in the bosom of Abraham or in hades bound for the lake of fire. Some teach that those in hades are already in the lake of fire, and I can't believe that because that would mean that those who died 2000 years ago would have suffered more punishment on the basis that they died before those who will die closer to the judgment. The scripture states that men will be judged according to their works which I believe is God's way and is the right way.
Jude 6 states: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day”.
My understanding is that those who died before the coming of the Lord who are not part of the body of Christ have been judged already, and they will not be resurrected to incur further judgment. Those in the time of Noah were judged by the flood. Some of those under the Law of Moses were judged by being stoned to death, but whatever their punishment they have already been judged.
I am teachable and trying to understand. Thanks for your comments.
God Bless
The unrighteous aren't being punished in hades just stored, reserved for punishment. Although they are not in comfort as the Rich man was not in comfort because of the nearby heat from the waiting Lake of Fire and the fear of empending destruction.
The angels aren't in hades they are in tarturus, the abyss, the bottomless pit. Only the angels are there. They are being stored as well for the judgement.
the underworld is:
Hades / Paradise
or Abraham's Bosom the “good place” where the righteouss are comforted until the resurrection.Hades / not Paradise
the unpleasent holding place of the unrighteouss awaiting judgement.Tarturus
the abyss and prison of the angels who left their first estate.Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,17:02) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,15:26) The near death experience, I am not commenting on. I don't have any clue about whether it is real or not. However, the dead are conscious they are exactly where the bible says they are in hades. They are either with Lazarus or they are with the rich man.
What you call a pagan parable Christians called orthadox for hundred of years. Catholics turned it into purgatory and Protestants just skipped it altogether and said Paradise (abraham's bosom) is heaven and hades is Hell or a premature Lake of Fire.
Hi Morning Star:What Jesus relates through the story or parable, whatever you might call it, has been something that I have had trouble understanding, and you may be right in saying that dead whether they are in Christ or not are conscious and are aware of their destiny. As I understand it, the soul is asleep at least when the dead were in Christ.
Or perhaps when a person dies they are given a glimpse of whether they are in the bosom of Abraham or in hades bound for the lake of fire. Some teach that those in hades are already in the lake of fire, and I can't believe that because that would mean that those who died 2000 years ago would have suffered more punishment on the basis that they died before those who will die closer to the judgment. The scripture states that men will be judged according to their works which I believe is God's way and is the right way.
Jude 6 states: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day”.
My understanding is that those who died before the coming of the Lord who are not part of the body of Christ have been judged already, and they will not be resurrected to incur further judgment. Those in the time of Noah were judged by the flood. Some of those under the Law of Moses were judged by being stoned to death, but whatever their punishment they have already been judged.
I am teachable and trying to understand. Thanks for your comments.
God Bless
Hi 94,
ALL will be resurrected. It is better to be in the first and thus not be judged as Jn 5, Rom 8 and Heb 4 urges. Those in the second resurrection, except for the merciful who have blessed Christ while alive [Mt 25], are destined for the second death, the lake of fire, for not believing in the Son of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2007,17:58) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,17:02) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,15:26) The near death experience, I am not commenting on. I don't have any clue about whether it is real or not. However, the dead are conscious they are exactly where the bible says they are in hades. They are either with Lazarus or they are with the rich man.
What you call a pagan parable Christians called orthadox for hundred of years. Catholics turned it into purgatory and Protestants just skipped it altogether and said Paradise (abraham's bosom) is heaven and hades is Hell or a premature Lake of Fire.
Hi Morning Star:What Jesus relates through the story or parable, whatever you might call it, has been something that I have had trouble understanding, and you may be right in saying that dead whether they are in Christ or not are conscious and are aware of their destiny. As I understand it, the soul is asleep at least when the dead were in Christ.
Or perhaps when a person dies they are given a glimpse of whether they are in the bosom of Abraham or in hades bound for the lake of fire. Some teach that those in hades are already in the lake of fire, and I can't believe that because that would mean that those who died 2000 years ago would have suffered more punishment on the basis that they died before those who will die closer to the judgment. The scripture states that men will be judged according to their works which I believe is God's way and is the right way.
Jude 6 states: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day”.
My understanding is that those who died before the coming of the Lord who are not part of the body of Christ have been judged already, and they will not be resurrected to incur further judgment. Those in the time of Noah were judged by the flood. Some of those under the Law of Moses were judged by being stoned to death, but whatever their punishment they have already been judged.
I am teachable and trying to understand. Thanks for your comments.
God Bless
Hi 94,
ALL will be resurrected. It is better to be in the first and thus not be judged as Jn 5, Rom 8 and Heb 4 urges. Those in the second resurrection, except for the merciful who have blessed Christ while alive [Mt 25], are destined for the second death, the lake of fire, for not believing in the Son of God.
Hi Nick:How could those who lived before the ministry of our Lord Jesus believe in him?
We know that the Holy Ghost gave revelation to the prophets such as David in Psalm 110 who says “The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy foot-stool”. And Jesus stated: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”. (John 8:56) Others of the prophets had the revelation as well but did not understand it. (Daniel 8:27) But all of these I believe are part of the body of Christ. They were striving to obey God, and the blood that Jesus shed has washed away their sins as well.
Your comments are welcome.
God Bless
Hi 94,
Christ spoke of the fathers as living. Abraham rejoiced to see the day of Christ. The Spirit of Christ inspired the prophets [1Peter 1.11, Rev 19.10]Since Christ is the source of eternal life they are alive in him enjoined in the Spirit.Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,18:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2007,17:58) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,17:02) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,15:26) The near death experience, I am not commenting on. I don't have any clue about whether it is real or not. However, the dead are conscious they are exactly where the bible says they are in hades. They are either with Lazarus or they are with the rich man.
What you call a pagan parable Christians called orthadox for hundred of years. Catholics turned it into purgatory and Protestants just skipped it altogether and said Paradise (abraham's bosom) is heaven and hades is Hell or a premature Lake of Fire.
Hi Morning Star:What Jesus relates through the story or parable, whatever you might call it, has been something that I have had trouble understanding, and you may be right in saying that dead whether they are in Christ or not are conscious and are aware of their destiny. As I understand it, the soul is asleep at least when the dead were in Christ.
Or perhaps when a person dies they are given a glimpse of whether they are in the bosom of Abraham or in hades bound for the lake of fire. Some teach that those in hades are already in the lake of fire, and I can't believe that because that would mean that those who died 2000 years ago would have suffered more punishment on the basis that they died before those who will die closer to the judgment. The scripture states that men will be judged according to their works which I believe is God's way and is the right way.
Jude 6 states: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day”.
My understanding is that those who died before the coming of the Lord who are not part of the body of Christ have been judged already, and they will not be resurrected to incur further judgment. Those in the time of Noah were judged by the flood. Some of those under the Law of Moses were judged by being stoned to death, but whatever their punishment they have already been judged.
I am teachable and trying to understand. Thanks for your comments.
God Bless
Hi 94,
ALL will be resurrected. It is better to be in the first and thus not be judged as Jn 5, Rom 8 and Heb 4 urges. Those in the second resurrection, except for the merciful who have blessed Christ while alive [Mt 25], are destined for the second death, the lake of fire, for not believing in the Son of God.
Hi Nick:How could those who lived before the ministry of our Lord Jesus believe in him?
We know that the Holy Ghost gave revelation to the prophets such as David in Psalm 110 who says “The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy foot-stool”. And Jesus stated: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”. (John 8:56) Others of the prophets had the revelation as well but did not understand it. (Daniel 8:27) But all of these I believe are part of the body of Christ. They were striving to obey God, and the blood that Jesus shed has washed away their sins as well.
Your comments are welcome.
God Bless
Jesus preached to the spirits in hades.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2007,19:05) Hi 94,
Christ spoke of the fathers as living. Abraham rejoiced to see the day of Christ. The Spirit of Christ inspired the prophets [1Peter 1.11, Rev 19.10]Since Christ is the source of eternal life they are alive in him enjoined in the Spirit.
Yes Nick, I agree with you that those who were striving to obey God prior to the ministry of Jesus are also part of the body of Christ which will be resurrected unto life.I'll just give my understanding of all of this under the Thread of judgment.
God Bless
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,19:14) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,18:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2007,17:58) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,17:02) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,15:26) The near death experience, I am not commenting on. I don't have any clue about whether it is real or not. However, the dead are conscious they are exactly where the bible says they are in hades. They are either with Lazarus or they are with the rich man.
What you call a pagan parable Christians called orthadox for hundred of years. Catholics turned it into purgatory and Protestants just skipped it altogether and said Paradise (abraham's bosom) is heaven and hades is Hell or a premature Lake of Fire.
Hi Morning Star:What Jesus relates through the story or parable, whatever you might call it, has been something that I have had trouble understanding, and you may be right in saying that dead whether they are in Christ or not are conscious and are aware of their destiny. As I understand it, the soul is asleep at least when the dead were in Christ.
Or perhaps when a person dies they are given a glimpse of whether they are in the bosom of Abraham or in hades bound for the lake of fire. Some teach that those in hades are already in the lake of fire, and I can't believe that because that would mean that those who died 2000 years ago would have suffered more punishment on the basis that they died before those who will die closer to the judgment. The scripture states that men will be judged according to their works which I believe is God's way and is the right way.
Jude 6 states: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day”.
My understanding is that those who died before the coming of the Lord who are not part of the body of Christ have been judged already, and they will not be resurrected to incur further judgment. Those in the time of Noah were judged by the flood. Some of those under the Law of Moses were judged by being stoned to death, but whatever their punishment they have already been judged.
I am teachable and trying to understand. Thanks for your comments.
God Bless
Hi 94,
ALL will be resurrected. It is better to be in the first and thus not be judged as Jn 5, Rom 8 and Heb 4 urges. Those in the second resurrection, except for the merciful who have blessed Christ while alive [Mt 25], are destined for the second death, the lake of fire, for not believing in the Son of God.
Hi Nick:How could those who lived before the ministry of our Lord Jesus believe in him?
We know that the Holy Ghost gave revelation to the prophets such as David in Psalm 110 who says “The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy foot-stool”. And Jesus stated: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”. (John 8:56) Others of the prophets had the revelation as well but did not understand it. (Daniel 8:27) But all of these I believe are part of the body of Christ. They were striving to obey God, and the blood that Jesus shed has washed away their sins as well.
Your comments are welcome.
God Bless
Jesus preached to the spirits in hades.
Hi MS,
1Peter 3
“18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
It seems to relate only to those who died at the time of Noah.
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,19:14) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,18:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 04 2007,17:58) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,17:02) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,15:26) The near death experience, I am not commenting on. I don't have any clue about whether it is real or not. However, the dead are conscious they are exactly where the bible says they are in hades. They are either with Lazarus or they are with the rich man.
What you call a pagan parable Christians called orthadox for hundred of years. Catholics turned it into purgatory and Protestants just skipped it altogether and said Paradise (abraham's bosom) is heaven and hades is Hell or a premature Lake of Fire.
Hi Morning Star:What Jesus relates through the story or parable, whatever you might call it, has been something that I have had trouble understanding, and you may be right in saying that dead whether they are in Christ or not are conscious and are aware of their destiny. As I understand it, the soul is asleep at least when the dead were in Christ.
Or perhaps when a person dies they are given a glimpse of whether they are in the bosom of Abraham or in hades bound for the lake of fire. Some teach that those in hades are already in the lake of fire, and I can't believe that because that would mean that those who died 2000 years ago would have suffered more punishment on the basis that they died before those who will die closer to the judgment. The scripture states that men will be judged according to their works which I believe is God's way and is the right way.
Jude 6 states: “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day”.
My understanding is that those who died before the coming of the Lord who are not part of the body of Christ have been judged already, and they will not be resurrected to incur further judgment. Those in the time of Noah were judged by the flood. Some of those under the Law of Moses were judged by being stoned to death, but whatever their punishment they have already been judged.
I am teachable and trying to understand. Thanks for your comments.
God Bless
Hi 94,
ALL will be resurrected. It is better to be in the first and thus not be judged as Jn 5, Rom 8 and Heb 4 urges. Those in the second resurrection, except for the merciful who have blessed Christ while alive [Mt 25], are destined for the second death, the lake of fire, for not believing in the Son of God.
Hi Nick:How could those who lived before the ministry of our Lord Jesus believe in him?
We know that the Holy Ghost gave revelation to the prophets such as David in Psalm 110 who says “The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy foot-stool”. And Jesus stated: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”. (John 8:56) Others of the prophets had the revelation as well but did not understand it. (Daniel 8:27) But all of these I believe are part of the body of Christ. They were striving to obey God, and the blood that Jesus shed has washed away their sins as well.
Your comments are welcome.
God Bless
Jesus preached to the spirits in hades.
Hi Morning Star:I thought I had replied to this but my post is not showing, but if it shows up twice that is why.
I'll have to pray about your response here. I believe that this is a misunderstanding of scripture. Jesus preached to those who were dead in their trespasses through the Holy Ghost during his ministry until he died, but when he died, he was dead. Dead men do not preach.
The Holy Ghost preached to the wicked through Noah in his time, and they did not believe him, just as many did not believe Jesus during his ministry.
But once a man dies physically his destiny has been determined. There is no purgatory. No, no second chance.
Let's keep searching for the truth.
God Bless
Hi 94,
Christ died and his spirit departed him for God but the Spirit of God never left him and he was enlivened in that Spirit till his own spirit was returned from God and he was raised IMHO.Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,20:26) Dead men preach if only the body is dead but they are quickened in the spirit.
No, I'm sorry. I can't agree, and so, one of us is in error on this, and so, let's pray asking God for revelation on this. I don't mind being corrected if I am wrong.When Jesus was resurrected from the dead, He could preach again but when he died, He said, “Father into thy hands I commend my spirit”. (Luke 23:46)
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2007,20:47) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 04 2007,20:26) Dead men preach if only the body is dead but they are quickened in the spirit.
No, I'm sorry. I can't agree, and so, one of us is in error on this, and so, let's pray asking God for revelation on this. I don't mind being corrected if I am wrong.When Jesus was resurrected from the dead, He could preach again but when he died, He said, “Father into thy hands I commend my spirit”. (Luke 23:46)
God Bless
This was orthadox christinity for centuries way before and through even early catholicism.Example:
Polycarp was the bishop of Smyrna at the time John wrote Revelations. Smyrna received praise from Jesus in Revelations. Polycarp's teachings reflect my view. Polycarp's view received praise from Christ.
It slowly changed and then pretty much altered during the reformation. I have prayed on it for about a year now. This is the answers I believe I have been led too.
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