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UNIVERSAL SALVATION
The compassion and grace of God know no bounds. In some passages
from scripture, the extent of God's saving work is predicted eventually to
embrace all humankind. Thus does the Divine Parent's heart yearn for all
His children. In Buddhist terms, the essential purpose of absolute Truth
is to liberate all sentient beings, and Mahayana Buddhist scriptures
express the universality of grace in the vow of the Buddha Amitabha. His
vow is similar to the Bodhisattva Vow to save all beings, and in popular
Buddhism the great Bodhisattvas who attend the Buddha are revered as
manifesting gracious aspects of Ultimate Reality.Universal salvation is compatible with the belief that there is
only one valid and true religion. Salvation may come to all people
through one central point: thus in Abraham 'shall all the families of the
earth be blessed' (Genesis 12.3). For those who believe in one religion
as the only way, the divine mandate to save all humankind is a powerful
impetus to missionary activity.We conclude with several passages which offer salvation to souls in
hell. If salvation is to be available universally, to every soul who has
ever lived regardless of his or her earthly life, the doctrine may appear
at odds with beliefs about hell and the Last Judgment. If God is most
essentially just, how can the wicked receive salvation? On the other
hand, if God is most essentially gracious and compassionate, how can He
permit any creature to suffer in hell eternally? Compassion and justice
must go together. Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism reconcile these aspects
of Ultimate Reality by regarding all states of hell as purgatories,
designed to mete out punishments for a limited period of time, that evil
karma might be burned up and the soul have a future opportunity to find
the Path. Christian and Islamic theologians dispute this question among
themselves–some upholding an eternal hell, others looking to universal
salvation. The Latter-day Saints practice baptism for the dead, thereby
emptying hell of its dead through the efforts of the living.God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the
knowledge of the truth.Christianity. Bible, 1 Timothy 2.3-4
The daily concern of the Parent is single-heartedly how best I can advance
arrangements to save all of you.Tenrikyo. Ofudesaki 14.35
We will make offering unto thee with worship, O Lord, and to the Right,
That you may achieve through Good Mind the destiny of all creatures in the
Dominion. For the salvation of the man of insight among such as you, O
Wise One, will hold good for everyone.Zoroastrianism. Avesta, Yasna 34.3
The Dharma of the Buddhas
by the constant use of a single flavor
Causes the several worlds
universally to attain perfection,
By gradual practice
all obtain the Fruit of the Way.Buddhism. Lotus Sutra 5
“As I live,” says the Lord God, “I have no pleasure in the death of the
wicked.”Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Ezekiel 33.11
When Israel crossed the Red Sea, the angels were about to break forth in
song, but the Holy One rebuked them, “My children are drowning, and you
would sing?”Judaism. Talmud, Megilla 10b
– – – – – – – – – – – –
1 Timothy 2.3-4: Cf. 2 Timothy 2.13, p. 507; Torah Yesharah, p. 506.
Yasna 34.3: The passage asks that these prayers to God cause all
creatures, not just the wise man, to achieve their destiny in God's
Kingdom. Lotus Sutra 5: This is the conclusion to the long Parable of the
Rain Cloud, pp. 142f. Megilla 10b: 'My children' are the Egyptians who
drowned in the waters while the Israelites escaped–Exodus 15.1-11, p.
564. On God's love for Israel's enemies, cf. Amos 9.7, p. 281.
– – – – – – – – – – – –God it is who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of
Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the
idolators may be averse.Islam. Qur'an 9.33
Turn to me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth!
for I am God, and there is no other.
By myself I have sworn,
from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness
an irrevocable decree:
“To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.”Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Isaiah 45.22-23
Miqdad reported that he heard God's messenger say, “There will not remain
on the face of the earth a mud-brick house or a camel's hair tent which
God will not cause the confession of Islam to enter, bringing both mighty
honor and abject abasement. God will either honor the occupants and put
them among its adherents, or will humiliate them and they will be subject
to it.” Miqdad said, “God will then receive complete obedience.”Islam. Hadith of Ahmad
God is on the watch for the nations of the world to repent, so that He may
bring them under His wings.Judaism. Midrash, Numbers Rabbah 10.1
I testify that Thou art the Lord of all creation, and the Educator of all
beings, visible and invisible. I bear witness that Thy power hath
encompassed the entire universe, and that the hosts of the earth can never
dismay Thee, nor can the dominion of all peoples and nations deter Thee
from executing Thy purpose. I confess that Thou hast no desire except the
regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its
peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.Baha'i Faith. Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah 115
Behold my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen, in whom my soul delights;
I have put my Spirit upon him,
he will bring forth justice to the nations.
He will not cry or lift up his voice,
or make it heard in the street;– – – – – – – – – – – –
Qur'an 9.33: Cf. Qur'an 22.56, p. 1111. Isaiah 45.22-23: Cf. Isaiah
2.2-4, p. 1112; 56.7, p. 243; Zechariah 14.9, p. 1111. Hadith of Ahmad:
Cf. Qur'an 21.104-05, p. 1111. Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
115: Cf. Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah 111, p. 274;
'Abdu'l-Baha, Promulgation of Universal Peace, pp. 290, 1119.
– – – – – – – – – – – –a bruised reed he will not break,
and a dimly burning wick he will not quench;
he will faithfully bring forth justice.
He will not fail or be discouraged
till he has established justice in the earth;
and the coastlands wait for his law.Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Isaiah 42.1-4
The Tathagatas do not enter ultimate liberation until all living beings
have entered ultimate liberation.Buddhism. Holy Teaching of Vimalakirti 4
God did not call me for myself. He called me expecting that I would
develop the universal personality [that can relate well with all people
and things].Unification Church. Sun Myung Moon, 4-14-57
I establish the Vows unexcelled,
And reach the highest path, Bodhi.
Were these Vows unfulfilled,
I would never attain Enlightenment.I will be the great provider
Throughout innumerable ages.
Should I fail to save all in need,
I would never attain Enlightenment.Upon my attaining Enlightenment,
If my Name were not heard anywhere
In the ten quarters of the universe,
I would never attain Enlightenment.Practicing the Holy Way–selflessness,
Depth in
right reflection and pure wisdom,
Aspiring toward the highest path,
I will be the teacher of devas and men.My wondrous power by its great light
Brightens countless lands throughout,
Removes the darkness of the three defilements
And delivers all from suffering and pain.Buddhism. Larger Sukhavativyuha Sutra 9.1-5: Juseige
Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire… they will dwell therein for
all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord
wills; for your Lord is the sure Accomplisher of what He plans.Islam. Qur'an 11.106-07
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the
unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the
flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the
spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited
in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark.Christianity. Bible, 1 Peter 3.18-20
It is sufficient to know, in this case, that the earth will be smitten
with a curse unless there is a welding link of some kind or other between
the fathers and the children, upon some subject or other–and behold what
is that subject? It is the baptism for the dead. For we without them
cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect.
Neither can they nor we be made perfect without those who have died in the
gospel also; for it is necessary in the ushering in of the dispensation of
the fullness of times, which dispensation is now beginning to usher in,
that a whole and complete and perfect union, and welding together of
dispensations, and keys, and powers, and glories should take place.Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Doctrine and
Covenants 128.18– – – – – – – – – – – –
Isaiah 42.1-4: This 'servant song' is understood differently by Jews and
Christians. Jews interpret the servant to be Israel, and view the passage
as a statement of Israel's vocation to be a light to the world. Christians
understand the fuller meaning of the servant as realized in Christ.
Larger Sukhavativyuha Sutra 9.1-5: This is one of the chief hymns of the
Pure Land school. One should not interpret this passage as speaking of
God's love in the western sense of the divine Being's love for his
creatures. Rather, the ideal of the bodhisattva illustrates the Mahayana
Buddhist principle that Ultimate Reality is itself all-embracing,
inclusive of every living being and of the nature of compassion. One who
truly understands this principle cannot help but feel suffering as long as
there is even one individual who suffers, for that unfortunate individual
is one's very self. This is the essence of the Bodhisattva Vow; see
Sikshasamuccaya 280-81, pp. 979f., and Garland Sutra 23, p. 980; see also
the Eighteenth Vow of Buddha Amitabha, Larger Sukhavativyuha Sutra 8.18,
p. 639. Qur'an 11.106-07: Based on this verse, some Muslim theologians
have deduced that the penalties in hell are not eternal, for 'the time
that the heavens and the earth endure' has a limit; in the end they are to
be dissolved and renewed. 1 Peter 3.18-20: This passage is usually
interpreted to mean that Jesus preached to the spirits in hell. Or, if the
doctrine of eternal hell is to be upheld, then the 'prison' may be
interpreted as an intermediate state of purgatory. Compare Markandeya
Purana 13-15, p. 981. Doctrine and Covenants 128.18: The baptism for the
dead is an important rite of the Latter-day Saints, bringing salvation to
those who have passed away in ignorance–'those who have died in the
gospel' are Christians ignorant of the new dispensation–and bringing
wholeness and complete salvation to the cosmos. Notice the Bible
references to Malachi 4.6 and Hebrews 11.39-40. Cf. Doctrine and
Covenants 76.54-93, p. 322.
– – – – – – – – – – – –How long is hell in existence?
Until it is thrown into the Lake of Fire. The same fire that will burn all the elements will consume the wicked.
Jesus Christ is Lord. hell was prepared for satan and his angels. God does not choose for us to go there, we choose our self. if you dont choose Jesus as your Lord and Savior, than thats saying you reject your maker. Who gave you life!!
Hi Katjo.
I think t8s post said it all really well,
I believe what you say about rejecting Jesus as your Lord and saviour,
Do you believe in eternal concious torment?
What is your definition of Hell?
Wheather we like it or not we have to beleive what God says: Hell is for eternity, just as heaven is. There is more scripture in the bible about hell than there is about heaven. It scares people so they dont want to beleive it is for- ever but God says it is. God does not lie! when you turn your life over to Christ and follow him , you have literally saved your self from Gods wrath too. The bible says Hell is a continuous place of torment and fire for ever and ever, thats why we need to spread the word so much to try and save peoples souls. God is a very loving God but also a just God too. And all hells going to break loose on this earth( soon I think) but those in Christ will be raptured up at that time. (In a hurry willpost again this evening)
KATJO!
Firstly, I agree all hell will break loose on the earth soon, but it wont last long. 3 1/2 years and then will be the return of Christ.
God is loving and kind and desires all to be saved. Dont confuse that with a god who is angry and is so confused he tortures people forever even though he teaches us to be the opposite. God is love. The punishment is eternal as in eternal destruction. any other punishment in this life or the next is temporary. Because God is Just. God has patience. (Just think of how He “sits up there” patiently waiting for people to turn from their ways, we could be destroyed in seconds all of us! But God waits. God is love Katjo.
Looking forward to your reply.
To katjo
Quote (katjo @ May 31 2010,00:53) Wheather we like it or not we have to beleive what God says: Hell is for eternity, just as heaven is.
Yet, scripture differs to what you have said:Revelation 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.Remember that we should not add or takeaway from the words of this book without adding to punishments or taking away rewards. So it is clear that hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire.
But what is the lake of fire?
Is is not the same fire that will burn up the old creation?2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.2 Peter 3:11-13
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives
12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.So what happens to the wicked and hell after it is thrown into the Lake of Fire, the second death?
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.2 Peter 2:12
But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.So they will perish like animals do.
Does perish mean what we it means in common English usage?
Yes. Look at Colossians 2:21-22 21
21 Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.Not convinced? Look at this.
Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.Philippians 3:19
Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.Yes, the wicked will be destroyed. Do you still doubt?
2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.So, it is clear that the wicked will be destroyed.
Can you refute this katjo?
Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,12:20) To katjo Quote (katjo @ May 31 2010,00:53) Wheather we like it or not we have to beleive what God says: Hell is for eternity, just as heaven is.
Yet, scripture differs to what you have said:Revelation 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.Remember that we should not add or takeaway from the words of this book without adding to punishments or taking away rewards. So it is clear that hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire.
But what is the lake of fire?
It is not the same fire that will burn up the old creation.2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.2 Peter 3:11-13
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives
12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.So what happens to the wicked and hell after it is thrown into the Lake of Fire, the second death?
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.2 Peter 2:12
But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.So they will perish like animals do.
Does perish mean what we it does in common English usage?
Yes. Look at Colossians 2:21-22 21
21 Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.Not convinced? Look at this.
Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.Philippians 3:19
Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.Yes, the wicked will be destroyed. Do you still doubt?
2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.So, it is clear that the wicked will be destroyed.
Can you refute this katjo?
How is eternal destruction in any sense different from another?Eternal destruction means that there is no possibility of a resurrection. Forever destroyed and cut away from God's presence. Never to have life again.
e.g., Babylon was destroyed and Saddam tried to rebuild it. But eternal destruction would rule out any possibility that it could be brought back or re-created.
Karmarie, Why so angry? Ive just repeated what the bible says. Sure there bodys will be destroyed but your soul is what you cannot kill and its going one place or the other. No, God does not want to see anyone go to hell, but if there is a heaven and a hell and you reject your maker, than were does that leave you? Please tell me were it says in the bible that punishment is temporary?? Rev. 20;7-15 tells us; after one thousand yrs. satan will be loosed out of prison, and will go deceive many nations and gather them to battle(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city; and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. (10) AND THE DEVIL THAT DECEIVED THEM WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, AND SHALL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER …2 THESSALONIANS 1; IS SPEAKING OF WHEN THE lORD SHALL BE REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS, TAKING VENGEANCE ON THEM THAT DO NOT KNOW GOD (9) TELLS US, THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD. Job 10; tells us it is a land of darkness, without any order. And there is more, so you cant say its just temporary.
katjoKatjo, I wasnt angry at all, im really sorry if it seemed that way. I said KATJO! in capitals because I wanted your attention! (thats all).
I'll reply later because I dont have time right now but briefly you said
Quote Ive just repeated what the bible says. Sure there bodys will be destroyed but your soul is what you cannot kill and its going one place or the other. Katjo, It says Fear God who can DESTROy BOTH the body and the soul.
I'll put more later ok?
Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,14:15) Eternal destruction means that there is no possibility of a resurrection. Forever destroyed and cut away from God's presence. Never to have life again. e.g., Babylon was destroyed and Saddam tried to rebuild it. But eternal destruction would rule out any possibility that it could be brought back or re-created.
My point was how is eternal destruction and eternal punishment different?The doctrine of eternal punishment requires one to have eternal life in order to then consciously experience the burning of the fire forever.
Destruction is the opposite as it is defined as the second death. It appears that the wicked will cease to exists like animals/beasts as they will be subject to the same destruction as the universe.
2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.2 Peter 3:11-13
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly livesIsaiah 65:17
Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.Hi Katjo.
this is the verse I was talking about..
Matthew 10:28…'and be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.”
God is love.
Jesus has shown us this love by laying down his life, so all those who will believe in him will not perish but will have eternal life. The wages of sin was death, the gift of God is eternal life. Doesnt that sound more like God? A gift taken or not.
God doesnt force his love or demand his love. He will reveal himself to people take an active part in leading them, but its then up to that person if they will listen or not. It grieved God that he made the world so he destroyed it and man with a flood. See that is how God is. Eternal life is a gift. for those who love God so much.
I went through a stage where I questioned this belief in eternal hell torment so much that I nearly lost all my faith but then I asked God if it were true, I felt love and peace and I knew then God is ok, God has it sorted theres nothing to fear.
What is God? What is love?
(1 Corinthians 13)..”Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends”.
1 John 4:7..”Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. We love because he first loved us.
t8, Kar,
This is wonderful stuff from you both.
Katjo, you have been here before and know what to expect!
Bod, please try a little harder to understand. You are not a million miles from Truth, Islam and Christianity are not completely dissimilar.
Personally, and this is me, say 'we don't care…', but bringing other religions, quoting from them in support is acrophycal, pointless. One can quote anything from any religion that appears to support a theory, but how does the rest of that religion sit altogether with what you want to say. Belief isn't 'pick'n mix'.
If I see a woman and desire her because she has blond hair…what of the rest of her that represents her? What if she dyes her hair brunette?I think it would be more 'desirable' to discuss Islam and Christianity and leave out..astroTurfTourism…and euroCashChrisism and GreekingisGoodism…
They can only act as distractions and dark blind avenues for hiding in when one's arguments aren't going how one likes.
Katjo,
The book of Revelations speaks in a symbolic language, the beast isnt an actual beast, Jesus doesnt turn into an actual lamb, etc, so to try and understand a book like that can be confusing. Its the exact reason the orthodox church never used it in daily reading, though they believed it was inspired they also knew it was too open to wrong interpretation, only some of them have delved into its pages and understood it.
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