Hell

[sunnyb]

in I John 1:5, the bible says that “God is light and in him is no darkness at all”. I cannot figure out how then we can attribute a place of suffering for anything other than the spirits under lucifers control and people's spirits born of lucifers seed. We are basically come in this life to make a descison as to wether we would like to be with God for eternity or not. If we did descide aginst it then shouldnt we just not exist? (gravedom….a word that comes from the greek words for Hell) if God were to punish us for eternity for not wanting to be with him wouldnt that be fear motivation? isnt fear not light? then that cant possibly be God….That would be like asking if you would like to play pool and if you did not then I would break your legs…wouldnt you call that fear motivation? I believe (speaking from experience) that if you study the words for Hell (hades , geena , and shehole ) (strongs #'s in brackets) that you will conclude that what most get is gravedom…non existance. seed of the serpant and the spirits of lucifer get suffering and the lake of fire. I would be interested to hear what you have to say in response…I have looked at alot of the content of this website and am impressed with the large content of hard work in the area of rightly dividing the Word of God. (II tim 2:15) either way this site has blessed me and in return I hope that i am not wasting anyone's time. God bless and happy studying!

[echad]

Sunny,

I agree…”the wages of sin are death”, not “eternal torment” – the lake of fire is the “second DEATH”.

What do you mean by the “serpent seed”? Are you talking about the Arnold Murray teaching?

[Proclaimer]

I actually do not believe that God will punish rebellious creatures for all eternity. I do not preach this yet as I am in the stages of praying and thinking about the truth here. But as it stands right now, I do not believe in eternal punishment for the following reasons:

What does the word perish mean?? Look up the word, then read the following scriptures.

Colossians 2:21-22
21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.

Hebrews 1:10-
10 He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.

The last 2 quotes help us to understand the meaning and context of the word perish. Now read on

1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[ 15:54 Isaiah 25:8]

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

Romans 2:12
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

2 Corinthians 4:3
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

2 Peter 2:12
But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[echad]

More power to you, don’t preach it! (LOL) Besides the scriptural points you have made, we must consider how ludicrous the proposition is that God would allow sinners to experience conscious torment FOREVER for the sins of a short lifetime on earth. Above all, God is "just". How could ANYONE accumulate enough sins to warrant ENDLESS conscious torment?!

In keeping with the question of whether or not to preach "eternal torment", many preachers, tragically, feel that they NEED to preach it in order to "encourage" people to repent. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Imagine how many people have REJECTED the gospel because they were told that they ought to love a God who would allow them to "suffer ETERNALLY" if they DIDN’T? Then they are told, in the next breath, that "God is love". How are they expected to believe this isn’t a contradiction?

[Proclaimer]

Given the overwhelming scriptures that support the destruction of the wicked. I have decided to preach it on the rooftops. I have put together a page located @
https://heavennet.net/answers/answer26.htm

[hugho9]

hey everyone have you ever read the book 'case for faith' by Lee strobel? great book i suggest reading it. it has change my views on Hell greatly

[Proclaimer]

No I haven’t.
In what way did it change your view?

[sunnyb]

hey all,
  T8 thanks for the great work you did on the subject, I think you hit it on the head using what you are supposed to use….the word.  
  Echad when I said seed of the serpant I meant the ones who worsip the devil…the equivalient to being born again….I am not familiar with Arnold Murrays teaching on it.  
  Thanks all….it is good to know that some people think and care enough to know that people are not going to suffer for eternity.  Nice having a loving God isnt it?

[sunnyb]

hey all again,
I just found a really good article on the web about “Hell”. it is very through and worth reading:
http://www.cffm.org/download/ihapfet.pdf
I think that if you are interested in the subject like me you will appreciate all the work that was done in this paper. that is it…

[Proclaimer]

I have just downloaded the file and will hopefully read it soon.
Thanx

[childofthelight]

Hey guys, glad you bring this up.  I am going through doctrinal discussions with my friend who is a “jehovah's” witness and they don't believe in an eternal Hell either.

I have found the following scriptures which, several coming from Christ, are enough to convince me of eternal, conscious, fiery torment.  Here they are:

Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 3:12

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire. prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.but the righteous into life eternal.    Matthew 25:41-46

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.. Jude 7

Interesting viewpoints nonetheless.  I think we need to remember that although our Lord God (Jehovah) wants all to be saved, he is just as JUST as he is merciful.  His ways are higher than ours.

[sunnyb]

hey childofthelight, I believe if you look at the link that I supplied in a previous post and look at chapter 2&4 of the post, you will find what the unquenchable fire and everlasting punishment is.  Thanks for your time and thoughts,
sunnyb

[childofthelight]

I couldn’t get it to download, would you e mail it to me?

Thanks!

[sunnyb]

Hello all, I am sry that people are having a hard time downloading the file that I said was interesting and would help on this subject…The file is a PDF file and needs adobe reader to open it. PDF is a standard internet file, and if you go to the link:
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.htm
you can download it for free. This should make it so you can open up many other documents without a problem not to mention the one I mentioned. Sry for the inconvience.
Thanks again and God Bless….sunnyb

[sunnyb]

opps, I forgot the ‘L" on the end of the link…use this one:

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
thanks sunnyb

[childofthelight]

You are so kind, thank you.  I have downloaded it and will read it soon.  I went to the website that is listed at the beginning — it was for the Christian Family Fellowship.  I just wanted to check out where this writer was coming from.  It was a good place and from what I saw it was doctrinally right on.  So, I will read and get back with my take on it and what I have found in the Word.  Thanks!  
OH, one place I have found that has helped me is called Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry.  www.carm.org

More later!  

[thehappyman]

Wow , many people have used their point of view of life after death. Some have said to me,” that this is life and when it is over , it's over.” “And when I perish then it is no more me.” To a young boy wanting to commit sucide not believeing in Hell and eternal punisment , then this became the approval seal to complete his task. 16 yrs old boy died with this seal of approval from they that knew not John 5:29 nor Luke 16:23-31. Yes, I have fear of the Lord , for with God all things are possible. We can grasp a place called heaven where their is no evil ; and a lake of fire where all evil shall be placed , but not dwell ? I need to read more about this subject and to come to a point of faith. But I must admit that I am taken back some about this subject. I enjoyed the input and time given unto this subject. Yes , now I must learn more. ……………….God bless…….thehappyman

[gl]

Hi All,

Does it matter if you're in Hell for a moment or an eternity? Jesus express the horror of being there for any amount of time that if it were possible it is better to give up our eyes, something we value highly, to prevent being there.[Mat 5:29]. And again if you had the all the riches of the world it would be better to give this up to prevent losing our soul.[Mat 16:26]
Eventually someone will be guided and inspired with the truth from scripture regarding this topic, but for now Hell is a bad place and we don't want to be there a moment or an eternity.

GL

[thehappyman]

Hi to All:
Thank You GL for responding so quickly. I found something very interesting about the subject of “hell”.
Use [email protected] and you will find this to be good reading . I am back on track now about this subject. My faith is sealed and I will tell others that hell is real and forever ; eternity. Theirs a heaven to gain and a hell to shun. Hell is no place for anyone and this is why Jesus came that none should perish but might have eternal life. ……………….thehappyman

[sunnyb]

Hello everyone,

I don’t think that we need by any means keep people from committing suicide by inducing fear motivation…. what option does that give them then?—Hell or being miserable the rest of their lives? Instead the truth of the word should be taught to them, if they see the love and grace that God has given them and what he has done for us, no-one would want to kill themselves anymore. By the way, the bible does not even say that if you commit suicide that you would go to Hell anyway.
In Matt 16:26 soul is “psuke” a.k.a. breath life. Its quite logical…why have all kinds of cool stuff if you are pushing up daisies and cannot enjoy it? John 5:29 is talking of the resurrection of the just and unjust. This is the second resurrection for the people who were not born again, and where everyone is judged. The just get life and the unjust get to return back to Hades—Hell—nonexistence—(gravedom). The lake of fire is for the Devil and his “little helpers” (what I call devil spirits), and quite possibly people “born again” of the devil. (Seed). I will have to look up Luke 16:23-31 as I am not familiar with it.

The main point is that God does not use Fear Motivation. He loved us first; He gave his only begotten son, all when we were enemies of Him. That is motivation enough to do well and live a good life, not to avoid everlasting torture. Again I ask that you look at the paper that I gave link to earlier as it goes into much greater detail of this subject. Fear motivation is saying that God was too nice and that we need to help him out, and get people scared into doing the right thing. Well, God is not wrong, fear motivation is, and I think if the truth of the bible were told to most people it would really help some people who think that God is a mean guy, and people would do the right thing because they wanted to out of love for what God has done for them.

Thanks again for taking the time to read this—
sunnyb

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