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A resopnse to https://heavennet.net/answers/answer02.htm:
Quote In (Psalms 14:1) it says: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God…”
In other words he who disbelieves this truth is spoken of as one devoid of understanding and the word 'fool' also has connotations to the words morally corrupt.
Some people think that God is nothing but a fable or farytale, when others consider no God to be the farytale. Of course I will be arguing for the second stance because belief in a complex universe with no designer is absolute foolishness.
E.g. Only a fool would say that a 747 airplane could come about by a tornado blowing through a refuse yard that contained the parts to the airplane, or a camera came about by blind chance. Only a fool would believe that a web site could create itself in cyberspace without the intervention of a programmer, even though all the ingredients exist there.
The writer seems to be prejudging his reader and getting the insults in first, and is making a judgement about morality that is of dubious value. Nevertheless it is true that 747s and cameras do not come about by the means described above.Quote Yet many so called intelligent people believe that the universe came about by pure chance. This of course has to include the galaxies, solar systems, suns, planets and the micro world of atoms, protons, electrons, quarks etc. Then we also have to consider the dimensions, 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on, plus all the natural laws, anti matter, dark matter and the code that make up the fabric of the physical realm.
Most ‘intelligent people’ accept the Big Bang Theory, which explains the appearance of the universe and can be described quite well back to a fraction of a second after the event. At that point, going backwards, the idea of ‘before’ means less and less as we get closer to the singularity from which time and space emerged, and dark matter, dark energy and even the nature of matter and energy are difficult enough to describe. There is much not understood about this event before that split second, although the evidence for its occurrence is very good. To question whether it involved ‘pure chance’ is to make an hypothesis that as yet has no real meaning.Quote Now the human mind cannot even conceive of the scale of the universe, never mind thinking at such wonderful design came about by luck. To believe that all this plus much more, came about without a God/designer/programer is absolutely pathetic. This belief is worse than a fable or farytale, it is the most extreme form of ignorance possible.
It is not consistent for the writer to state that the human mind has difficulty understanding the scale and nature of the origins of the universe, and then to make a judgement about the degree of ignorance of those who have considered different hypotheses regarding the appearance of that universe. If we are ignorant, why are we not also ignorant about whether a designer was involved or not?Quote People who do not believe in God, also believe that the wonderful and technological human eye was not designed by God, rather such design came about because creatures without eyes had a less chance of survival. Yet when we see a man made camera we all know without a doubt that it was designed and built by someone. Did a camera come about by evolutionary processes because of the need for people to take photos, no it was created by intelligence for that need. However the truth is that the human eye and the human camera both use the same technology to turn light into an image, that can be understood. If you believe that a camera is always created by a designer (and so you should), then why is it so hard to believe that there was a creator for the human eye. If you don't attribute the wonderful technology of the human eye to a Creator, then what you are really saying is you believe that nothing or blind chance did a much better job with this technology than intelligent beings ?
The evolution of the eye is very well described, and most of the stages of that process are present in different species living today, from the light-sensitive patches of the single-celled euglena, through the light-direction sensing cup-eyes of the planarium to the fully-fledged eyes found in humans. The statement about blind chance is irrelevant because natural selection works by choosing characteristics that improve survival from the variation produced by mutation. The mutation has an element of chance but the process of natural selection is far from blind. Cameras are designed by humans. Eyes have evolved by natural selection, several times over in the course of natural history.Quote Humans who by possessing intellect can not only increase the odds in their favor of such design to come about, but actually make it possible at all. So how can nothing create something better than so called intelligent beings. To not believe in a creator is illogical and this is but one small example of Mans incredible foolishness. It is not hard to imagine the countless more examples of mans foolishness that exist. The question is, are you wise enough to accept obvious truth, or do you want to be blinded to the obvious by reason of your intellectual pride.
Unfortunately, even between the insults this paragraph communicates nothing of value. The assertion that not acknowledging a proposed but undefined creator is foolish, is not supported.Quote If you saw 20 apples on the ground and positioned to form a perfect circle on flat ground, you would automatically assume that these apples were placed there by somebody. What if I told you that there was a hole in my bag of apples, and when they fell out they formed a perfect circle by chance or the more accurately the elements that were in process at the time, such as wind, gravity and the angle that the apples fell out of the bag created this circle of apples. Would you not say that I was mad if I told you that they just fell out that way. Then how is it that some say the complex universe came about by chance. (I think I am being very extremely generous in my examples in a statistical sense).
On finding such a circle of apples, an observer might make several hypotheses. Perhaps they were arranged that way by a person, or they fell by chance that way from a bag. Maybe they fell from a portable circular machine that had been processing the apples, the machine having since been removed. With no evidence either way, suspension of judgement would be the only reasonable option.Quote Such people who believe that the universe itself, formed the earth, ot
her planets, stars and galaxies, in fact the whole universe including the atomic world may be fools, but they are also ignoring the fact that the ingredients had to come from somewhere in the first place, which only makes the odds much greater. The only alternative to chance is constructive design and enlightened people understand that where there is design, there is always a designer.
From the separation of matter from antimatter to the present day, with the exception of the event of abiogenesis, the history of stars, planets and the variety of living species are very well described by theories of stellar evolution, planetary accretion and of course evolution by natural selection. Each of these theories explains the observations and makes predictions that have been verified. None of these explanations include a designer because the description as it stands is both perfectly adequate, and more parsimonious without it. It is also true that there is no evidence for the existence of any such creator. Science does not rule out the possibility of a more complex explanation that could include a designer, but no such scientific hypothesis has ever been made that is a better explanation for the observations. In every case the explanation would have to explain the designer as well as its actions.Quote Hebrews 3:4. “For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything”.
One of the most blinding philosophies today is the Theory of Evolution, a so called modern science. It is a theory because it lacks any proof that would change it to fact. Evolution's lack of absolute proof makes it just another religion and it actually requires a degree of blind belief because contrary to what many think, there is no evidence that the universe came about by evolutionary processes. Yet the proof of a master designer of the universe is all around us, its actually obvious. The theory of Evolution may explain some of the processes or laws that God used to create, but the concept that these processes happened without a designer is seriously flawed.
This is not a scientific argument because it cannot be falsified. Evolution is a fact, as shown by the fossil record and the matching molecular evidence found in the various genomes. Natural selection is the theory that explains the fact. No scientific theory can be ‘absolutely’ proved, so the assertion that evolution is a religion is a straw man argument. Contrary to the unsupported assertion about the lack of evidence that the universe came about by evolutionary processes, there is a wealth of evidence that stars go through a staged development, and fact that the material ejected from a supernova that makes up planets undergoes a planetary evolution is also well established. The assertion that a god is has been involved is the one idea that is unsubstantiated, and by the terms usually used by people who propose supernatural creators, it cannot be substantiated.Quote Rom1:19,20 it says: “For what can be known about God is evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result they have no excuse.”
The religion of Evolution is a very popular world wide religion that has many followers. In fact evolution is one of the biggest belief systems in the world today and this theory is very popular, more because it suits many to believe there is no God rather than compelling evidence of design in nature and creation. Most people don't question something if it is taught as a fact and if people treat Evolution this way, then those who are not interested in truth can easily be ensnared by this doctrine.
It may be true that individuals adhere to scientific explanations as if they were doctrine, but the body of scientific knowledge is built through the collection of empirical evidence and peer review of its interpretation. Unlike other fields of human endeavour, in science incorrect ideas are exposed relatively quickly. There is no evidence for design in nature. The evidence is entirely consistent with evolutionary processes. The best explanation is not that of design.Quote Yes the scriptures are correct when they say that this world is under deception, and the proof that there is a God is all around you. If you deny constructive design in creation, you are like the fish who says, what is water. The evidence is all around you and that may lead you to take it for granted to the point of ignoring it or even denying its existence.
The scriptures are quite clear that all deceptions come from the the Father of Lies, who is none other than Satan or otherwise known as the Devil (God's adversary). Jesus said of himself “I am the Truth” and his mission was to not only destroy the works of the Devil, but to more importantly teach us about God himself. So I want to ask you a question. Who do you believe ?
Can you see that this world is in darkness. Jesus said I am the “Light of the World”.
We all know that light shines through darkness and yet darkness cannot overcome light as darkness is the lack of light. In the same way truth shines through lies & deception, and wisdom overcomes folly.
Get wise my friend and align yourself with the truth.
Turn from your evil ways, come out of the darkness and come into Gods glorious light. Truth is eternal but lies are temporary. Align your life with the truth and God will gift you with eternal life. Do not be deceived. The Devil came to rob kill and destroy. But Jesus came that you may eternal life in all it's abundance.
Empirical and rational discussions have nothing to say about assertions of religious writing, except that there is no evidence of supernatural causes.Quote Lets imagine for a moment that we humans created Artificial Intelligence (AI) so sophisticated that it actually became self aware and started on a quest to learn as much knowledge as possible. Imagine if this 'AI' concluded that it wasn't created because in cyberspace there was nothing smarter than itself and it couldn't for obvious reasons see its creator or the realm in which the creator inhabits. Let's also imagine that this 'AI' just assumed that cyberspace came about by itself even with the understanding that the 'AI' could see the code that made up Cyberspace. What would the programmer of this artificial intelligence think. Would he not laugh at the conclusion that this created mind came to, especially considering that all things in the 'AI's world would have to have been made by someone much smarter than himself.
This analogy is not relevant to whether humans were designed because of the precondition that the designed object was designed.Quote Well guess what, God laughs at mans wisdom in the same way as it is foolishness to him.
Here is a list of scriptures that describe Mankind's wisdom as foolishness in Gods sight:
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this a
ge? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1 Corinthians 3:19
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: He catches the wise in their craftiness”
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Luke 10:21
“At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure”.
Whether humans can be considered foolish or not has no bearing on the truth of human and celestial origins.Quote Even children's wisdom puts our so called learned wisdom to shame.
God has decreed that the Just shall live by faith. If you try to work it all out using your own mind you will fail miserably. Remember that you live inside a body that locks us into 3 or 4 dimensions. What about all the higher dimensions. The higher the dimension, the greater that dimension, and as you step up a dimension, you get a view of all the dimensions below. e.g. from the third dimension you can see the first two, but from the first two you cannot see the third. Einstein said that the 4th dimension was Time and Space and other scientists say that there are many dimensions. It is just plain ignorance to say that there is no God, when you are so limited in every way.
It is poor science to assert the existence of a creator who may occupy dimensions that are unavailable for our observation. There can be no evidence of this and the statement has no more value than speculation.Quote Now here is the difference between someone who believes in a creator and someone who doesn't. In this hypothesis, both these people will describe the existence of a cake, just so we can bring it all down to a level we can understand:
The person who doesn't believe in a creator explains the existence of a cake like this. It all started when there was just flour, baking powder, water, egg, sugar, butter. Over a long period time given a very small chance, the butter and sugar were whisked by gravitational forces that attracted smaller elements including baking powder, flour and egg. The chances of this happening was minute, but there was a lot of time for this coincidence to happen. Eventually the mixed up elements were exposed to a furnace that literally cooked these ingredients at 180° Celsius for about 20 minutes. Now if you try to argue with me then I can give you mathematical equations and theories to prove this, and you should just assume that I am right as this theory was wrought from many experiments and by many people who are probably out of your intellectual depth.
Now here is the explanation of the existence of the same cake explained by someone who believes that it was made by someone.
The cake was baked by someone who made it perhaps so it could be eaten. He/She mixed all the ingredients together and then cooked it in an oven.
Both explanations are similar, but the first explanation tries to explain how the cake was made, while the second one asks who made it and why. In a sense, science is not interested in who, but rather how. My point is, that science at best, is an inadequate field for finding the meaning of life, but rather it serves as a way of explaining how certain things could have come into existence.
Science has never attempted to explain ‘the meaning of life’. It is true that humans make choices that give meaning to their own lives individually. It is up to the reader to decide whether the question of meaning has any value beyond the decisions individuals make for themselves.Quote Of course faith doesn't rule out science it just puts it into perspective. In fact science as we know it, actually originated from the Church as an investigation into the way God created things. It however took its own course by ungodly and blind people and has been used to try and disprove God, which has failed miserably I might add.
Science has never made any judgement on the existence or otherwise of any god. Science cannot prove a negative.Quote So does this mean intelligent people cannot know God. Of course not. Galileo, Leonardo DaVinci, Albert Einstein and even Stephen Hawking believe in God and many other thinking people.
Albert Einstein did not believe in a personal god. Stephen Hawking is an atheist. In any case their personal beliefs make the truth claims of religions no more or less valid.Quote To conclude, I would have to say that to believe in God doesn't require intelligence, but rather wisdom. You could be the most intelligent person alive and not believe in God. You could also be intellectually challenged and have no doubts about the existence of God. In other words, you could have an exceptionally high IQ and be a fool, or you could be below average in intelligence and be one of the wisest people who ever lived. If believing in God required certain intellectual prowess, then it would be unfair because only those who were blessed with a certain IQ could know God. But God has given enough proof of himself in creation for everyone to see, even children.
Again I leave you with the following scripture:
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Get wise and put your trust in God, not yourself.
There is no proof of the existence of any god.Stuart
Hi Stu,
Are you among the intellegentsia you elevate as icons?
There is no proof for you that God exists.
None can be given to you.But you have said you do have an inkling of faith
and an overwhelming mountain of doubts
Take a risk
Commit intellectual suicide and believe.Hi Nick
Quote There is no proof for you that God exists.
None can be given to you.
There is no proof that any gods exist. Otherwise there is no such think as faith.Quote But you have said you do have an inkling of faith
No, I don’t.Quote and an overwhelming mountain of doubts
Not true either. Where do you get this from?Quote Take a risk
Commit intellectual suicide and believe.
Is that what you did? Did you trade in your ability to think critically?Stuart
Hi stu,
I do not critique the Bible.
I know it is truth.Sometimes poorly translated or badly handled or even added to but these things can be clarified by study.
It remains the truth and the closest thing most will ever see of God.
Nick,
Hmm, seems you are getting close to admitting that the bible is not 100% true. Careful, if it is only 99.9% you'll have to chunk it.
Hi tow,
You have no idea where you are going.
But you are dead keen to take some with you.
You have no inheritance through faith it would seem.
Yet you come here to harm the simple faith of the little ones.
That millstone is heavy.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2008,18:33) Hi tow,
You have no idea where you are going.And you do? You follow a dead guy. Following the dead leads to death.
Quote But you are dead keen to take some with you. See dead guy thing above.
Quote You have no inheritance through faith it would seem. And you have inherited lies.
Quote Yet you come here to harm the simple faith of the little ones.
That millstone is heavy.
Then cast it off.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,09:16) Hi stu,
I do not critique the Bible.
I know it is truth.Sometimes poorly translated or badly handled or even added to but these things can be clarified by study.
It remains the truth and the closest thing most will ever see of God.
Do you critique the Koran? That could be a better route to understanding (the same) god. You must have critiqued the bible in order to reject the Koran.Stuart
Hi Tow,
I have read parts of it.
Stuck in the craw like dry bread.
Give me the living words of God any day.What makes you think Koran is not G-d's word? Or Book of Mormon? Others say it is. Why are you right and they wrong?
Hi Tow,
Begin again.God is real.
The bible is the Word of God.
Compare anything else with what God has said and it will show you.If you have the Spirit.
If you do not and are immature then Harry Potter may be as valid for you as any other.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,12:05) Hi Tow,
Begin again.Why?
Quote God is real. Never said He wasn't.
Quote The bible is the Word of God. If that is so, G-d stopped speaking almost 2000 years ago. Is He on vacation?
Quote Compare anything else with what God has said and it will show you. If you have the Spirit.
If you have spirit, why do you depend so much on words written by men?
Quote If you do not and are immature then Harry Potter may be as valid for you as any other.
The difference between the GT and Harry Potter is that the GT isn't properly filed in the fiction section.Hi Tow,
The Spirit of God does now not speak of His own initiative but reminds those in Christ of the words already spoken. It is nice to know that everyone who claims some new revelation is out of line and to be ignored as the gospel will now never change. The Spirit of God inspired the writers of Scripture and is thus just reminding us of what has already been taught.That and the millions of Christians who pass by homeless shelters, prisons, and charities every Sunday so they can hear someone tell them how to be more like Jesus.
Actually, since I left Christianity, I am now giving to noble charities instead of putting my money and time into a building and pastor's salary. Yourself?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2008,06:39) Hi Tow,
The Spirit of God does now not speak of His own initiative but reminds those in Christ of the words already spoken. It is nice to know that everyone who claims some new revelation is out of line and to be ignored as the gospel will now never change. The Spirit of God inspired the writers of Scripture and is thus just reminding us of what has already been taught.
So, (sorry this is crossing threads a bit), you have heard from god yourself, in order to verify that it is the Judeo-christian bible you should follow, but all he said was “read that one”?Stuart
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