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JNFC, you seem to be an earnest, true believer.
Why do you think that some parts of the bible are still hidden from you if
it is only hidden from those who believe not?Tim
Quote (Stu @ Aug. 24 2009,17:26) Is a fact something that can be altered by thinking about it? Stuart
Your thoughts alter the facts all the time Stu baby.thinker
What do you know is 'there' but cannot be 'seen'?
I assume you are happy for 'seen' to mean detected by our senses or technology.
Stuart
Did you understand the part where I asked you if you were happy that 'seen' could mean anything detected with ANY of your senses?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 20 2009,00:53) What do you know is 'there' but cannot be 'seen'? I assume you are happy for 'seen' to mean detected by our senses or technology.
Stuart
Somewhat of a problematic scenario, since if you can't detect it, you can't prove existence.Tempted to try suggesting black holes, since photons largely can't escape them, so they can't be seen (I do wonder though, if gravity was transmitted by particles, exactly how it escapes them…)
So if I can't have black holes (since I think we can sort of see their effects, if not the black holes themselves) I suppose I could try gravity itself?
Now, I know we can detect force – including the acceleration due to gravity, but I seem to remember something from relativity stating the impossibility of identifying what was causing a force. It's the scenario where you're in a lift that is accelerating upwards – and you feel a force pushing you against the floor. Or are you in a lift that is stationary and it's gravitational attraction pushing you to the floor? How do you tell the difference? Can I have gravity itself as something we know is there but can't see or detect specifically?
Yes the effect of gravity is indistinguishable from the effect of acceleration in a closed room. Now I think about it, I guess that means a pendulum works even when g=0. Hmmm.
I think you will find that both situations are just relative curvature of space-time, the answer being to cut a hole in the wall and look for a massive object nearby. Even black holes will make their binary star partners wobble in their orbits, or will refract light from behind them.
According to Jesus name follower of Christ, looking is allowed as a means of determining whether something can be seen.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 26 2009,21:34) Yes the effect of gravity is indistinguishable from the effect of acceleration in a closed room. Now I think about it, I guess that means a pendulum works even when g=0. Hmmm. I think you will find that both situations are just relative curvature of space-time, the answer being to cut a hole in the wall and look for a massive object nearby. Even black holes will make their binary star partners wobble in their orbits, or will refract light from behind them.
According to Jesus name follower of Christ, looking is allowed as a means of determining whether something can be seen.
Stuart
If there's an overall force acting that can't be distinguished from gravity, then I imagine a pendulum would work fine?Besides, as an aside gravity is a very pervasive force. Not only is there the obvious attraction from the planet we inhabit, but a considerably larger one from the sun, and in turn even larger ones from the galaxy itself. Obviously in freefall we don't really perceive or register those additional ones though – only the resistance of the ground preventing our downward accelaration means we notice Earth's gravity. Obviously gravity still acts out on the international space station – and could you measure or see it in that circumstance? (how can you identify that the motion of the space station in orbit is due to gravity and not another force?)
I'm sure there's something interesting and fundamental in the fact that the effects of any accelerating force are the same as gravity but I'm struggling to get the idea to come out. I mean – it's interesting that a physical force as produced by say an engine to create forwards acceleration is the same in effect as gravity? (where I'm not sure we really understand the nature of the “engine”?)
Quote (Douglas @ Sep. 27 2009,08:35) Stu,Sep. wrote:Obviously gravity still acts out on the international space station – and could you measure or see it in that circumstance? (how can you identify that the motion of the space station in orbit is due to gravity and not another force?)
You reach out into space and make a chalk mark then look out for that chalk mark the next time 'round. That will tell you that you are accelerating.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 04 2009,00:11) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 03 2009,21:06) Quote (Stu @ July 21 2009,21:40) So says the snake oil salesman: don't worry about whether the claims are true, just blindly believe (and keep buying the snake oil). Stuart
If snake oil is left exposed, a lightning strike could electrify any containing amino acids and life could begin. Once life came to life (so to speak) then it could evolve into an organism that could turn out to have healing properties.You can't argue with this theory Stu, because I mentioned evolution and used the same amount of imagination that evolutionists use with their theory.
So case closed. Snake oil can heal.
Thanks, I hope you enjoyed the show.
You keep buying that snake oil, t8. It is magical.Stuart
Yes magical as evolution.Nothing can outdo intelligence.
Wow, magical. Who would have thought?
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 26 2009,07:29) Did you understand the part where I asked you if you were happy that 'seen' could mean anything detected with ANY of your senses? Stuart
Any progress Stu? Or are you still clanging the symbol?Hey I have this idea.
In the theory of evolution there was once this being who being humble, eventually rose up to the highest understanding and plane of existence and travelled to the highest dimension. Progress in evolution of understanding and nature.
His name was Jesus.
To explain this resurrected being it was proposed that he had a Father for his traits must have originated somewhere. His Father went by the title of God.
Now lets see, using the same amount of imagination, I just proved the possibility that there is a God who has offspring after his own kind.
Might want to look into it. Sounds plausible because the word evolution was mentioned and using imagination, I was able to come up with a theory that you cannot disprove.
I call it the theory of Everything coz it mentions both God and evolution.
I will let you mull over this for the next few months.
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 27 2009,16:01) Quote (Douglas @ Sep. 27 2009,08:35) Stu,Sep. wrote:Obviously gravity still acts out on the international space station – and could you measure or see it in that circumstance? (how can you identify that the motion of the space station in orbit is due to gravity and not another force?)
You reach out into space and make a chalk mark then look out for that chalk mark the next time 'round. That will tell you that you are accelerating.Stuart
You get the same effect if the chalk mark is accelerating and you are stationary.Quote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2009,20:56) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 27 2009,16:01) Quote (Douglas @ Sep. 27 2009,08:35) Stu,Sep. wrote:Obviously gravity still acts out on the international space station – and could you measure or see it in that circumstance? (how can you identify that the motion of the space station in orbit is due to gravity and not another force?)
You reach out into space and make a chalk mark then look out for that chalk mark the next time 'round. That will tell you that you are accelerating.Stuart
You get the same effect if the chalk mark is accelerating and you are stationary.
Then you are still accelerating relative to the chalk mark.Stuart
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