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t8,
The new testament passages that speak of no one seeing
God, obviously do not refer to Jesus. We agree on
that. They refer to the Father. You say they refer to
the Father, because only the Father is God. I say they
refer to the Father because the context indicates that
they refer to the Father, and people have clearly seen
Jesus.What you do is you say those who said Jehovah appeared
didn't mean Jehovah. You say it was a represntative.
Sometimes that's true. But when that is the case, we
know it's the case because the text says it. In the
verses we've been discussing the text does not,
instaed it says it is Jehovah r in the case of Acts
7:2 it says the God of Glory.Where it says Jehovah appeared, I say it mean Jehovah
appeared. They saw Jesus prior to the incarnation and
since Jesus is Jehovah they said who they saw and were
right.When Stephen says the God of Glory appeared to
Abraham, you say he didn't mean that. I say he did
mean that.Since Jesus is Jehovah and since that is who
Abraham saw and recognized as Jehovah God, Stephen was
right to say and MEAN that the God of Glory appeared
to Abraham.Just wanted to clear that up . All the scriptures
regarding God, Jehovah appearing etc. MEAN what they
say and there is no conflict if Jesus is Jehovah, If
in fact the is ONE God who eternally exist as three
distinct persons.If Jesus is not God than YOU have to change the plain
meaning of what the Bible itself says or YOU have a
contradiction.You can disagree, but I wanted to be clear on what you
are disagreeing with. In the triune God these passages
mean what they say and there is NO contradiction.Hi ss,
Till t8 comes on board if I can say this:
Jesus is not Jehovah.
It is fanciful to say every time it seems as if God is seen, men see Jesus. There is no suggestion or proof that Jesus ever visited earth prior to his birth. That would give him an unfair advantage over us and scripture says he was like to us in ALL ways except sin.To stroshow,
Quote (stroshow @ April 27 2005,00:01) The new testament passages that speak of no one seeing
God, obviously do not refer to Jesus. We agree on
that. They refer to the Father. You say they refer to
the Father, because only the Father is God. I say they
refer to the Father because the context indicates that
they refer to the Father, and people have clearly seen
Jesus.
Are you joking?Many come here preaching that God is a Trinity and that God (singular) is made up of 3 personalities. Therefore when no one has seen God, they should read it as no one has seen the Trinity for that is God to them and what they teach, is it not? But in a funny old way you have indirectly agreed that the Father is God. Because you recognise that it is indeed the Father that is invisible, that he is the invisible God.
But it appears that you pick and choose what you want. One rule applies here and not there. You seem to be not consistent. Do not liars or those who defend lies change the rules all the time? We see this in court testimonies often. But it is the truth that remains constant. Constant as in there is one God the Father. When you see that, your teaching will be constant too.
Why don't you try taking every instance of the word God and replace it with Trinity and see how confusing your doctrine becomes.
E.g., For the TRINITY so loved the world that the TRINITY gave his only begotten son. He he now we have four. If this subject wasn't so serious it would indeed be very laughable.
When you see that the Most High God is the Father, then you will see that indeed the Father loved the world and gave his son.
When God the Father appears as indeed he does, he is revealed though someone or something. Not the Father without Christ or the Father without an angel. Look at the transfiguration. The Father spoke, but all they saw was Jesus, Elijah and Moses. Yet they had a true encounter with God and they certainly saw his glory as that which was visible became glorified. In that sense they saw God, but not his form, but his glory
There is only one God. When scripture says that no one has seen God, then it is that one God that they haven't seen. Not a third (or Jesus) as you suppose.
Trinitarians cannot accept that God is the I AM. That he is an identity that exists. Instead they have relegated God to a substance that spawns 3 different personalities (I AMs). If we believe that rubbish then we might as well believe in New Age philosophy. For even they believe that God is a substance of type.
With this false doctrine you cannot say “Dear God I love you”, because you are talking to 3 personalities. You should say “Dear God, how are you guys”. In fact I have even heard prayers like that from those caught up in the Trinity doctrine.
As it is written “she made the whole world drunk on her wine”. The world is always babbling off false doctrines and lies. Why don't you become sober and accept the great commandment.
The Lord thy God is one God.
When scripture talks of God appearing to someone it is that the invisible God is being revealed in someone or something that we can see. This is why Jesus is the image of the invisible God and why he is the only way to God. You can't just walk up to and touch God. But you can see God in whom he chooses to be revealed. Even creation reveals God. But looking into the face of Christ is the closest thing to looking at God himself. For he is the image and glory of the invisible God. That is why we must have the son in order to have God in our lives.
Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Three parties here. God -> Man. That is why it is written:
“The head of the man is Christ and the head of Christ is God.”
If you were sober then you would walk a straight line with this issue. But all I see is a lot of stumbling around my friend.Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 26 2005,01:24) Hi Sammo.
Good to see you back.
Well, I'm not really 'back', but thanksHi,
Jesus said that no man has seen God.The earth is God's footstool. He is spirit. His Spirit permeates all searches all things of his creation. How could we even imagine such a God was able to be seen and grasped by our puny minds and bodies?Hi,
If no man has seen God then Jesus was not that God. Only those who had spiritual eyes could see God in Christ.Stroshow,
You Stated:,
Quote If Jesus is not God than YOU have to change the plain
meaning of what the Bible itself says or YOU have a
contradiction.You can disagree, but I wanted to be clear on what you
are disagreeing with. In the triune God these passages
mean what they say and there is NO contradiction.Yet you still have a contradiction. You quote Acts. 7:2 as a proof text for your arguement, yet this scripture does not support your arguement. There is no scriptual proof for this text to support a physical appearance of Yahweh. Go back to Genesis 11-12 (Where Abram dwelt in Haran) and you will not see a physical appearance to support Acts 7:2. For all we know it could of been a dream or vision, but it does not justify a physical appearance of Yahweh.
So while you have a contradiction to John 1:18, I do not, and I don't have to use the false doctrine of men (trinity) to clarify it.
Quote My take on Joh 6:46 is that it means no one has seen God is all His magesty. Sounds good Isa. 1:18, but it's not what the text says. How can you line the Word up to justify your position. Why not adjust your position and line up with the Word.
Hi sultan,
I agree.
Jn 6.46
” 46″Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”So Jesus tells us.
The Father is God.
He is not that God.
No man has seen God.
When men thought they saw God they did not.
He has seen God.
He was thus not a man when he saw God.
To see God one does not need human eyes.
Spiritual beings see without eyes.Hi,
John 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.Jesus was not God but was OF GOD
Hi,
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.Indeed no MAN has seen God.
Jesus was not a MAN when he did.yes if you are one with the father you can see him,he is not flesh but spirit,if you are in the spirit you can see things of the spirit ,even god,if you are in the flesh you are blind to the things of the spirit,jesus said they had seen god by seeing him,yet all they could see was the flesh because they were in the flesh,he says no man has seen god,that is true no flesh has seen him,but the spirit sees him,me have seen him and known him,and if me said me had not,me would be a liar.
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