- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Oxy @ June 12 2010,11:50) Quote (terraricca @ June 12 2010,12:30) Quote (Oxy @ June 12 2010,03:53) Quote (t8 @ July 04 2007,12:52) Everyone is right in their own eyes. That is why we must trust scripture over our own view and keep away from the creeds of men.
If we are to rely on Scripture so much, how do we deal with contradictions? For example,
Mat 27:3 Then he who had betrayed Him, seeing that He was condemned, sorrowing, Judas returned the thirty pieces of silver again to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4 saying, I have sinned, betraying innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? You see to that.
Mat 27:5 And he threw the pieces of silver down in the temple and departed. And he went and hanged himself.
Mat 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
Mat 27:7 And they took counsel and bought the potter's field with them, to bury strangers in.
Mat 27:8 Therefore that field was called, The Field of Blood, to this day.Compared to
Act 1:16 Men, brothers, this Scripture must have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit by the mouth of David spoke before concerning Judas, who became guide to those who seized Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:18 Indeed, then, this one purchased a field with the reward of unrighteousness. And falling headlong, he burst apart in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it was known to all the dwellers at Jerusalem, so much so that that field is called in their own dialect, Akeldama, that is to say, Field of Blood.There are many such contradictions in Scripture. Scripture was inspired by God, but written by imperfect men and then translated by imperfect man. The ONLY Word of God that is totally reliable is the One who rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of the Father.
oxywere is the contradiction could you pointed out for me i can not see it
Pierre
Matt 27.5 says Judas threw the money down in the temple whereas Acts 1.18 says Judas used the money to buy a field.This is not the only contradiction in Scripture, but my purpose is not to discredit Scripture. My purpose is simply to emphasis the fact that our dependence needs to be on the Lord rather than the Scriptures.
I have heard so many people say things like God can't say it unless it's in the Bible.. but Jesus said and did far more than what was written, so why limit God?
I have heard so many people say that if God speaks to you He will confirm it through the Scriptures, but He once told me to buy a truck. I have not yet found buying a truck mentioned in Scripture.
The point is this, we should know our Lord's voice and be obedient to Him. Yes, He will teach us through Scripture, but He will also speak of other things to us. For example, I was in Dick Smith's electronic shop some months ago and He told me to buy a data projector, even though I had no use for one and didn't have the $999 necessary, but I did as He told me.. the full story is here… http://www.all4god.net/projector.htm
God is great and it is an awesome thing to know Him and follow Him. I love Him with all my heart and He excites and inspires me more than ever after 32 years of following Him.
Oxy,
Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the lord Jesus Christ.
Judas used what money to buy the field? What indication is there in scripture that it was the money he threw down in the temple? There is none. Did Judas have another source of money that he could have used that could also be called, “the reward of iniquity?” Yes.
It is worth noting that there are two different Greek words for field being used to describe the events. The word for field in Acts 1:18 is the word, chorion, meaning property. Judas purchased this property with the reward of iniquity.
The chief priests and elders bought a field, an agros, a larger field, (does the word agriculture come to mind?) with the money Judas threw down in the temple.
One was called the agros of blood, because it was purchased with the blood money Judas received then cast down in the temple.
The chorion of blood was so called because Judas spilt his own blood there.
The money that Judas spent to get the chorion of blood came from a different source. John 12:6 gives a source for that money. “This he said, [Judas] not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.” Evidently, Judas was the treasurer of the group and was responsible for the safekeeping of the money. However, Judas was a thief. Stealing from contributions to Jesus Christ's ministry qualifies as ” the reward of iniquity”.
The method of Judas' suicide is been cloudy because of a lack of knowledge of scripture and Eastern custom. Saul, the first king of Israel, fell on his sword, he “hung himself” on it. The handle of the sword would be thrust in the ground, then the person would fall on it. A version of “hari kari”? Rope was not involved, that is Western culture, not Eastern. Scripture needs to be understood in the culture in which it was given, not our own. Nobility or royalty or wealthy people would fall on a sword. Less “fortunate” people would impale themselves on a sharpened wooden stake stuck in the ground.
We need to quit guessing and spend more time in the scriptures.
barley
Quote (Oxy @ June 13 2010,05:36) Hi Isa 1:18, thanks for the welcome. At the end of the day, all Scripture was given by a perfect God through the hands of imperfect man and then translated by imperfect man. A preface in the front of one Bible clearly states that “They have done their best..”
However, the very Word of God (Jesus) is perfect and the things He says to us can be totally trusted along with the revelations He gives us. The Scriptures are there to show us the nature of God and His principles along with the prophetic etc, but I see so many people pluck “promises” that were made to Biblical characters and claim them for themselves and so often disappointed. I have found that the further I go in my journey the more trouble I have with traditional teachings. So have I gone off track? I don't believe so simply because I believe the things that my Lord teaches me, and yes, He takes me into Scripture to teach me, and I am seeing good fruit from the things He has told me to do.
Oxy,Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the lord Jesus Christ.
For the prophecy, (scripture) came not in old time by the will of men, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. II Peter 1:21.
God chose holy men of God to write down His words to man. Men of God that God knew were faithful to His words and were trustworthy and truthworthy.
Have you ever deposited money in a bank without screwing up the transaction? Sure you have, yet you are not perfect. Even so, you can do somethings right on a consistent basis without screwing it up.
God chose men who were trustworthy and truthworthy.
barley
Hi Oxy,
I see you have turned on scripture and tried to make it fight itself in defence of your dogmas.
Is this how your claimed spiritual wisdom is expressed?
Scripture is the wisdom of God.[Lk11]What of you?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 13 2010,07:17) Oxy……..I believe you are thinking that is not the question here , what i am questing is you interpitation of what you are reading brother not your thinking about it. The Glory Jesus had in the beginning was a Predestined GLORY and Jesus the MAN understood that God had predestined Him for that Glory, not that he was there and then morphed and came into existence again. You assume that the (WORD) of GOD (IS) Jesus is in error because Jesus himself said the words he was speaking was (NOT) HIS Words, so How could He be that WORD that was NOT HIS> Jesus could be attributed as the one who Speaks GOD'S words and in that sense be reckoned as the word of GOD, but that does not make him the actual WORD itself. He is a spokesman ,”GOD SPOKE IN TIMES PAST (THROUGH) THE PROPHETS, BUT IN THESE LATTER DAYS HAS SPOKEN TO US (THROUGH) A SON. Think about it Oxy. peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Gene,
Very well said.
thanks,
barley
Hi Oxy,
Scripture shows that Judas loved money.
He scolded those who used it to honour the Master.
Can you imagine him leaving it where it was thrown if it was not accepted?Quote (Oxy @ June 13 2010,07:40) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 13 2010,09:31) Oxy………Exactly what about that, did that make those who GOD spoke to and (through) like the Prophets a GOD? NO, so why did that all change with Jesus?. What difference is there in what GOD Did In Jesus that he did not do in the Prophets. Remember it say (GOD) spoke to us (THROUGH) the prophets and and He also spoke to us (THROUGH) a Son, whats the difference it still was GOD that was speaking. right? peace and love……………gene
Gene, you have successfully confused me, congratulations lol.Where did I ever say the prophets were God?? Simple answer, I did not.
Yes, it was God speaking through the prophets and His Son. The difference was that the prophets could not save us, they could only speak of the Saviour to come. And the prophets did not receive the Holy Spirit as Jesus did and the prophets were not to be worshiped, neither were they God and with God in the beginning.
However, according to Scripture the Word was with God and was God in the beginning, and was then made man. After His resurrection He was restored to His former glory.
Oxy,Gideon was called to save God's people and Gideon did that. Judges 6:14. Gideon was a savior. Moses saved Israel from the bondage of Egypt. Joseph saved his father and families from lack of food. Any questions?
Moses gave Joshua the spirit of wisdom, Deuteronomy 34:9. The spirit given was not unholy, it was not alcohol, it was holy.
Jesus Christ was not personally with God in the beginning. Jesus' beginning, his birth, his genessis is spoken of in Matthew 1:18. God had foreknowledge and planned for his eventual coming, but JC was not with God in the beginning.
Word is logos, a message, a communication, the thoughts or ideas behind the words used. Did God have something to say or communicate to mankind? Yes, He did. He communicated to us through the scriptures. That is the written record in the flesh of what God wanted us to know. Jesus Christ is that written record of truth lived out in the flesh.
Can you or I live out the truth of the scripture in the flesh? Yes, we can. That is the purpose of God's giving us scripture so that we can live them, and see the results of it, not only for our benefit, but for the benefit of others who see our lives. We are to be the word in the flesh for others. Why? so that they can see the Father in us, in our lives.
barley
Hi Oxy,
God does everything spiritual in his creation by His Spirit
The Spirit of Christ was with God in the beginning.
That Spirit was in the prophets[1Peter 1]Jesus is the great prophet promised by Moses.[Acts3.22]
Quote (Oxy @ June 13 2010,16:27) Quote (t8 @ June 13 2010,13:25) No man has ever seen God.
Men have seen God's glory in the form of angels, the son, even creation.
But no man has seen God's form.
Actually he is a spirit that can dwell in all. How do you see that?Like a prism when light shines into it. The glory of the light is beautiful, but the prism without light is dull even invisible.
So think of God as light and the prism as a created spiritual body.
I beg to differ t8Exo 24:9 And Moses went up, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.
Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as the essence of the heavens for clearness.
Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the sons of Israel He did not lay his hands. Also they saw God, and ate and drank.
Exo 24:12 And Jehovah said to Moses, Come up to Me in the mountain, and be there. And I will give you tablets of stone, and the Law, and commandments which I have written, so that you may teach them.Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked and said, I pray You, reveal Your name. And He said, Why do you ask after My name? And He blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Face of God; for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said to his wife, We shall surely die because we have seen God.
Gen 16:13 And she called the name of Jehovah who had spoken to her, You are a God of vision! For she said, Even here have I looked after Him that sees me?
Gen 16:14 Therefore the well was called The Well of the Living One Seeing Me. Behold, it is between Kadesh and Bered.I could add some more, but I think this will suffice.
Oxy,
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the lord Jesus Christ.
If we use the word see strictly in the sense of the operation of the organ of sight, the eye, then those people literally saw God.
If we understand the word “see”, in the many ways that God uses it in the scripture, then we do not have to conclude that anyone actually saw the invisible God. Which would be an obvious contradiction.
See Genesis 27:27, “And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed.”
Isaac was either losing it, or he used the word “see” in the sense of understand or take notice. Do I have to explain that we do not see smells, we use our nose, not our eyes, to detect smells?
What did the people in Romans 1:20 see of the invisible God, they did not literally see God, they saw the results of his handiwork. By that, they understood God's eternal power and Godhead. They did not literally see God.
God did not allow Moses to see him face to face, why then Jacob? Is this a figure of speech to indicate the closeness of the relationship Jacob had with God?
God did not appear to Manoah and his wife as is suggested in Judges 13:22. Read Judges 13:1-21. Twelve times that the appearance is referred to directly or indirectly as the angel of the Lord or as the angel of God. But verse 22 says God? Clearly, they saw and conversed with an angel of the Lord. God provided Manoah and his wife with necessary information by sending one of his angels. It was not God, it was an angel. God gets the glory for sending the angel.
There is nothing in Genesis 16:13-14 that indicates that Hagar saw the angel of the Lord that conversed with her. It is clear that she heard him, but nowhere does it specifically state that she saw the angel.. God is not an angel.. Angels are spirit beings, but they are not God.
We need to stop guessing and spend more time reading the scriptures.
barley
Barley,
Well said in the last line of your last post.
But this applies to you too, my man.
You speak well, but why do you adopt the “Jesus did not preExist” stance if you understand Scriptures.
Can you show me how you came to be a disbeliever – I am interested in your stance outside of this aspect and would love to see you come across to the truth.
Quote (Oxy @ June 13 2010,16:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 13 2010,10:48) Hi Oxy,
But is the Spirit that PROCEEDS from God now separate from God?
Or are we made one with Jesus and God IN that Spirit?[Jn17]
We are indeed made one with Jesus and Father through the Holy Spirit whom God sent.This is the way the Lord explained it to me. There are three feasts, one for each part of God.
The Feast of Passover represents Jesus and the salvation we have with Him and through Him. He is the door to the Father.
The Feast of Pentecost represents the Holy Spirit. Upon receiving the Holy Spirit we receive the fruit and gifts of the Spirit according to God's will. He is our teacher, comforter, guide etc.
The Feast of Tabernacles represents the Father. Our ultimate goal is to tabernacle with our Father.
Oxy,What about the rock part of God? See Psalm 18:2.
God is a fortress. What feast for the fortress part of God?
God is a buckler. Buckle up, we are going to the buckler feast.
The Lord is my shepherd. Shepherd feast?
Psalm 119:73, the hands of God. “Thy hands hath made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments.” A feast for God's hands?
barley
Quote (Oxy @ July 04 2010,17:49) Quote (Ed J @ July 04 2010,11:12) Quote (Oxy @ July 04 2010,08:13) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2010,03:35) EDJ………..I have always said Jesus preexisted (IN) the plan and WILL of GOD, Just as we have , that does not mean we or he existed in any state other then in the Nothing more and nothing Less. Jesus or us did not exist in any form before we were born on earth. IMO peace and love…………………………gene
Jesus pre-existed as the Word of God. Scripture makes that very clear. He was the first born of the Father.
Hi Oxy,Please show us all where?
Jesus pre-existed as the Word of God:Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God; his name was John.
Joh 1:7 This one came as a witness, to bear witness concerning the Light, so that all might believe through him.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 He was the true Light; He enlightens every man coming into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, and the world did not know Him.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.Firstborn:
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
Col 1:13 For He has delivered us from the power of darkness and has translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son;
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the remission of sins.
Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the First-born of all creation.
Neither John 1:1 or 2 mention JC. John 1:2 reads “The same was in the beginning with God” It says, “the same” not “he”.Barley,
Is “The Word” a “He” or an “IT”.
Is the Word personified, is God's Spoken Word personified. Or was God's Spoken word “IT” a articled name for He-Whom-Was-Born-As-Jesus?
Jesus-to-be carried out the word of God perfectly and as such can rightly be called “The Word”. God spoke and He Did that Word.
Can you tell me that this is not also a human term:
My Righthand man (My supporting strength against adversity or, my Wife).
My Sword (The one whom I use to do my 'killer' works)
My Armour (The defence lawyer – or, my Wife….!)
My Sidekick (My friend).
My Buddy (My friend).
My “Heart”'s Desire (I like her – I would like her as my partner).
My Sweety (She is nice and kind).
My Comfort (She comforts me).
My Joy (She Makes me happy).
My Goffer (Go for this – go for that!)
etc. Are these not terms that are personified in another human.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
