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Quote (david @ Oct. 14 2009,21:57) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 15 2009,16:55) Quote (david @ Oct. 14 2009,21:43) Quote Barukh attah Adonai eloheinu melekh ha-olam, asher natan lanu Mashiach Yeshua ve-hadiberot shel ha-berit chadashah. Oh ya, well:
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur.
Yes but in Hebrew it sounds poetic, does it not?
I love your response in view of what I said in Latin:“Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur.”
It means:
“That which is said in Latin sounds profound.”
Been many a year since I took Latin at Brophy Prep, and yes I did give you a well put answer, did I not?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,07:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 14 2009,15:16) Jack,
Paul wrote of “impurity” in the very verse I quoted. So evidently there is such a thing as impurity for the christian. Our liberty in Christ is not a licence to sin. I have more to write on this but I have to dash to work.Blessings
Hi PaulI do not think I have ever disagreed with you even once.
But I don't see passing out candy to kids who have costumes on as sin either. I have given kids Bible tracts with their candy.
And I sure do not see anything wrong with parents or church groups having an alternative to the secular and worldy practice of it, for instance dressing as Bible Charactors and playing games as well as having candy!
Blessings WJ
I guess I have a different perspective to you brother. I live in a country where Halloween is a new (and unfortunate) importation. So it has not been intergrated into my culture and I have not become comfortable with it. I see it for what it is, an obscenity dressed up so as to be palitable to the masses. Look into it's origin.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 14 2009,21:57) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 14 2009,21:50) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,09:39) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:18) Ephesians 5:1-3
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
Oh, come off it Paul! Do you realize that what you are saying would ban you from life as we know it! Everything is “impure”. Is there any one thing, or any one person who is not?We are to be holy as he is holy……sure but we also have to live here on earth, and in these human bodies who register only human nature.
What you're proposing – do you really think it's possible? And if so, celebrating Halloween (on whatever level) would be the very least of anyone's concerns, I dare say!
Hey, glad you're back!
Love,
Mandy
Before you get too caried away in your rebuke try to understand the application of my comments. Several times Thinker made what seemed to me a comment that conveyed this sentiment – every thing is pure the the christian, there is nothing we can do that is impure. I posted a scripture where Paul mentioned impurity in the context of christian conduct – which of course serves to invalidate this assertion. Paul would not mention impurity at all in his writing to the saints if if were not possible to commit it, right?…..Hope this clears that misunderstanding up.
A question for you not3, given it's blatant Pagan roots and the fact that you have an easy out if you chose to take it, is your involvement in Halloween pleasing to the Lord? If not why do it?
Seemed pretty cleat to me.
“clear”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 14 2009,21:57) Festina lente
Bravo Contemplation and Meditation, the only way to hurry up and slow down. I liked that one Nick Quote (david @ Oct. 15 2009,17:00) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,16:50) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,09:39) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:18) Ephesians 5:1-3
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
Oh, come off it Paul! Do you realize that what you are saying would ban you from life as we know it! Everything is “impure”. Is there any one thing, or any one person who is not?We are to be holy as he is holy……sure but we also have to live here on earth, and in these human bodies who register only human nature.
What you're proposing – do you really think it's possible? And if so, celebrating Halloween (on whatever level) would be the very least of anyone's concerns, I dare say!
Hey, glad you're back!
Love,
Mandy
Before you get too caried away in your rebuke try to understand the application of my comments. Several times Thinker made what seemed to me a comment that conveyed this sentiment – every thing is pure the the christian, there is nothing we can do that is impure. I posted a scripture where Paul mentioned impurity in the context of christian conduct – which of course serves to invalidate this assertion. Paul would not mention impurity at all in his writing to the saints if if were not possible to commit it, right?…..Hope this clears that misunderstanding up.
A question for you not3, given it's blatant Pagan roots and the fact that you have an easy out if you chose to take it, is your involvement in Halloween pleasing to the Lord? If not why do it?
Celebrations are incredibly hard to give up, especially when everyone you know is involved and they are wrapped in chocolatey goodness.
Expected you to be all over this thread David.
“Chocolately goodness”
I love that, David. And you are correct that it is difficult to give up certain things when they have been a part of your upbringing. However, I had no problems giving up the Trinity doctrine….so….I wonder what gives on these holidays? I guess I see no need to give them up.
I obviously look at it way different than the majority of folks here.
I don't see it any more displeasing to the Lord than drinking too much, lying, thinking about a women/man sexually that is not your wife/husband, watching movies that have all sorts of themes that most don't blink twice at, listening to music with same, gossiping, not giving to those who ask of you……the list goes on.
What pleases the Lord? My answer is the love that is in my heart for mankind, and for my Creator. Do I think it displeases the Lord to celebrate Halloween? No. One person thinks one day is better or less. One person celebrates this day or that. To one person a day is holy, to another it's obscene!
As for the origins of Halloween – it depends on who and what you read. I've found some pretty interesting explainations for certain symbols and practices of the holiday that have nothing to do with witchcraft. Which by the way, in the beginning was more of an “earth” religion than anything else. It had nothing to do with worshipping Satan. Geesh…. Origins smorigins, I say! It depends on who's count of history you want to believe.
I celebrate all the holidays and have a great time doing it! My kids are thrilled for the holidays. We bless the Lord and keep our light shining no matter where we are or what we're doing. Many have been blessed because of this, and many have heard the gospel because of this. I make no excuses for my actions here. I think the bible can be used as a policy book of rules and regs (for the individual to interpret) or it can be used to point out grace, forgiveness, love, hope, good deeds, and faith.
Love,
MandyQuote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,16:50) A question for you not3, given it's blatant Pagan roots and the fact that you have an easy out if you chose to take it, is your involvement in Halloween pleasing to the Lord? If not why do it?
Is my involvement in Halloween pleasing to the Lord?Hmmmm.
I don't think it's a concern of his either way. I think he would be much more concerned with idea that I harbor bitterness towards my father. Or that I lie and cheat. Celebrating a day that was originally dedicated to the dead (to celebrate their spirit/their lives), well, I don't think is a biggie. We have another name for such an activity – it's called “Memorial Day”. No one has a cow over that?
Love,
MandyMandy, there's a bit more to it than that…
“The wearing of costumes and masks at Halloween goes back to the Celtic traditions of attempting to copy the evil spirits or to placate them.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HalloweenQuote (942767 @ Oct. 14 2009,21:52) Hi WJ: You say:
Quote We can walk in divine health by faith! Faith without works is dead. If we don't obey God's principles for living that He teaches us through His Word, it won't do us a bit of good.
I still struggle with my eating habits, and every time a gain a couple of pounds, my blood pressure goes up, and high blood pressure is known as “the silent killer”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
OK MartyIf you are going to go back to the law then you should keep all of it!
That is what the scritpures teach.
My food is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Jesus said it is not what goes into the man that defiles him but what comes out of him!
So have at it. I will not put a stumbling block in front of you for eating my pork. But neither should you make demand on me or accuse me of sin for eating it.
Blessings WJ
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,01:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,07:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 14 2009,15:16) Jack,
Paul wrote of “impurity” in the very verse I quoted. So evidently there is such a thing as impurity for the christian. Our liberty in Christ is not a licence to sin. I have more to write on this but I have to dash to work.Blessings
Hi PaulI do not think I have ever disagreed with you even once.
But I don't see passing out candy to kids who have costumes on as sin either. I have given kids Bible tracts with their candy.
And I sure do not see anything wrong with parents or church groups having an alternative to the secular and worldy practice of it, for instance dressing as Bible Charactors and playing games as well as having candy!
Blessings WJ
I guess I have a different perspective to you brother. I live in a country where Halloween is a new (and unfortunate) importation. So it has not been intergrated into my culture and I have not become comfortable with it. I see it for what it is, an obscenity dressed up so as to be palitable to the masses. Look into it's origin.
Hi PaulOk, I can accept that! Surely I would not say you are wrong for obeying your conscience.
However for me when I read most of the post in this thread it seems to me to have the smell of “Legalism”, and a little hypocrosy!
I am not saying this of you brother, but there are plenty examples of the world inventing something and carrying it to extremes by using it for evil like in “Sports” or the “Internet”, or TV, and yet Christians are involved without sinning. For instance, some men worship football or basketball, yet many Christians partake without sinning by buying a game ticket or getting together with their friends on a Sunday evening to watch a game.
Paul said…
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 1 Cor 9:22
The roots of Halloween here is not even understood and in fact is not even practiced by most unsaved.
So while the world is doing its thing, is it wrong for me or my church group to use that time for inspirational purposes and fellowship with our Christian children and showing the world that we are different without being legalistic about it?
Just my opinion! My conscience is clear and in fact washed by the blood of the Lamb.
“Everything is permissible for me”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”–but I will not be mastered by anything“. 1 Cor 6:12
Bessings Keith
WorshippingJesus said:
Quote So while the world is doing its thing, is it wrong for me or my church group to use that time for inspirational purposes and fellowship with our Christian children and showing the world that we are different without being legalistic about it? Just my opinion! My conscience is clear and in fact washed by the blood of the Lamb.
“Everything is permissible for me”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”–but I will not be mastered by anything”. 1 Cor 6:12
Keith,
Amen bro! “To the pure all things are pure.” Hebrews says that our conciences have been sprinkled with clean water. The new covenant age is the age of conscience and liberty. Many here just want to entangle us again with the yoke of bondage with their “touch not” and “taste not” menatlity.I can't believe that Marty and Con make the uclean animals a health issue when it was just a ceremonial uncleanness. Certain Israelites were also called “unclean.” A woman was “unclean” during her menstral period.
Is it true today that a woman is “unclean” to God during her menstral period? Of course not! Her uncleanness under the old covenant was ceremonial and not inherent. The same was true of certain animals.
God clearly revealed to Peter that God has cleansed all things and that we are forbidden to call anything He has cleansed “uncommon.” Paul said that nothing is unclean of itself.
thinker
To make evil pure is about the ridiculous idea yet. When the Bible is speaking of pure it is talkng about Swine flesh, and nothing else. And it was a commandment for all Jewish people. And to tell the truth tat meat is not good for anybody. But it was the old Covenant. We ae under a New Covenant in Christs Blood Luke 22:20.
IreneQuote
Barukh attah Adonai eloheinu melekh ha-olam, asher natan lanu Mashiach Yeshua ve-hadiberot shel ha-berit chadashah. Barukh attah Adonai, notein ha-berit ha-chadashah. Barukh attah Adonai eloheinu melekh ha-olam, asher natan lanu ha-devar ha’emet ve-chayei olam nata betokheinu. Barukh attah Adonai, notein ha-berit ha-chadashah.barux hashem!
YHWH bless thee and keep thee; cause His face to shine upon thee, and favour thee; YHWH lift up His countenance upon thee, and appoint for thee–peace.
Quote 3/1
Who wants to read about burning children and rape?” (Using source material from YNCA).
The two Celtic words Hallowed Evening came from All Hallowed’s Ev’n, and now we call it “Halloween”. This is now even more popular than Easter, and rivals Christmas. The roots of this festival come to us from Druid demon worship. Witches were said to fly brooms over the crops to “teach” them how to grow. It was a fertility myth. When the first Roman Catholic missionaries encountered these Druids, they met stubborn resistance because the inhabitants of Angle Land, Sweden, Neder Land, northern Germany, Fin Land, and Eire Land were very nationalistic.The ritual we embrace as Halloween was originally called the Feast of the Dead, Samhain (pronounced Sa-ween , derived from “ha shatan”, or SATAN – all Pagan idols' names were honoring SATAN), and was on November 1st.
These pre-Christian Druids had the barbarians doing ghastly things. It was a dreaded occasion, since it was thought that time stood still, and the souls of the dead walked the land. Gifts, especially food, were left outside for these roaming ghosts, with the hope that no harm would come to the households.
The Druids chose certain children to be burned alive on “bone-fires”, as offerings to the sun. Parents tied yellow ribbons around oak trees as prayers to the sun to have their children spared. The fat left over from the child was fashioned into a candle, and placed into a carved-out pumpkin, or a hollowed out vegetable with a “round” (sun-shaped) design. The victim was called Jack-of-the-lantern.
Prisoners and unliked people were burned alive in wicker cages shaped in the form of animals, hung from trees. All of this was ultimately to pay homage to the sun, Woden, or Odin. As you now know, this Druid deity gives us our name for the 4th day of the week: Woden’s Day.''
shadow of things perhaps?
Quote (georg @ Oct. 14 2009,22:30) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 14 2009,21:29) Wow: Sometimes this site gets awfully trivial about opinions. No one said a word about the correct postings thinker wrote. No one gave him any credit for being scriptually on target. Just a bunch of hooey crap about satan and evil. I suppose all who are against halloween are most certainly against christmas. You know, the pagan roots back to nimrod and the tree. You surely don't worship the decorated tree or even allow it in your house, right? Look for devils and they are everywhere you look. Look for Jesus/God and peace and love will dominate your life. Its your choice. Oh and while you are degrading a person for a sexual expression remember that its not what comes out of a man that defiles him, its what he covers over and keeps inside to boil and simmer and eventually become a cancer or other form of sickness. Thinker your expression was fun and non-threatning! We are free in Christ together. TK
You could not be more wrong in that you think it is alright for a Christian to celebrate a Festival that is stiffed in Paganism.
You really think that God likes what heathen do? Not in my book. And as far as all Holidays are concerned, you need to read in Lev, 23 and see what God likes. Those are His Holy Days. I guess we are really getting to know who who is.
And Who loves God and who loves Worldly things. Just like the trinity…… Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm Millions died because they wanted to do the right thing. You think that could not happen again? Oh, yes my friend, look around you we are on our way! All I can say is I am glad I am 71 years old and soon leave this evil deceived world. It all started in the second century and it has never stopped.
You can all do what you can't stop doing, but one day, you too will see. One more thing. At Christmas time, more people commit suicide then any other time of the year. And Christ was not born on Dec. 25 either. But it was Nimrods Birthday.
you think I am wrong, just study Ancient History, you'll be surprised. Are you also free in Christ to go out and get drunk?
Or sin? Or be abusive? Give me a break.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene: When you read what you wrote above, do you feel love in your heart? Does it make you feel peace? If there is love intended both you and the recipient would feel it. What I felt were harsh, accusing words filled with judgment and condemnation. What ever it is that you believe, I hope you are at peace with it. Bless you, TKQuote (georg @ Oct. 15 2009,23:42) To make evil pure is about the ridiculous idea yet. When the Bible is speaking of pure it is talkng about Swine flesh, and nothing else. And it was a commandment for all Jewish people. And to tell the truth tat meat is not good for anybody. But it was the old Covenant. We ae under a New Covenant in Christs Blood Luke 22:20.
Irene
Irene,
It is only in your mind that something is evil. Paul said that nothing is unclean of itself. Paul said it was okay to eat meat in an idol's temple as long as it did not cause the weaker brother to stumble.1 Corinthians 8:9-13 (New King James Version)
Quote 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. There it is! Paul told them that they were free to enter an idol's temple and eat the meat that was sacrificed. He prohibited it only when it would cause their brother to stumble.
This is not about your stumbling Irene because you would not go against your conscience by my entering an idol's temple and eating. This is about your putting other Christians under bondage again.
“To the pure all things are pure.” The one who cannot see the good has a defiled conscience. If you were pure in heart this would all make sense to you. The fact that you have only evil to say about the Catholic Church testifies that you are not pure in heart. You choose to look away from the good in things.
thinker
Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 15 2009,14:34) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 15 2009,09:38) Quote
Hey Mandy,
I am relieved you were not offended.Jack
is your soul content now?
Quote
The politically correct policewoman got me worried.it was not me that had you worried, should have held on to the spirit that was speaking to you, not anyone else, just my take on the matter.
and by the by, completed a form on what profession would best suite me, lo and behold, a police officer, not too far of there Jack; even so, five foot tall is not a qualification they are looking for.
and when does the Word of Yah have anything to do with politics?
I thought our discussion was over?
thinker
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,16:09) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 15 2009,07:12) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:02) I offer this scripture and a double-barrelled question. Ephesians 5:1-11
1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose themIs Halloween pleasing to the Lord? (check it's historical roots – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween), and if not does this scripture, on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it?
If Paul could eat meat offered to idols at a pagan feast, then we can pass out candy to youngsters on “halloween.”Paul said that nothing is unpure of itself. All things are purified by the pure in heart. “To the pure all things are [made] pure.”
The pagan origins don't matter. Paul said that he could attend a pagan feast and eat meat offered to idols. How could passing out candy on halloween be worse then what Paul would do at a pagan feast? Just as Christians had Judaizers back then so we have them today. They are not content unless they take away our liberty in Christ and bind us to the rule of their consciences.
thinker
Thinker, buddy, you didn't answer my questions.1. Is Halloween pleasing to the Lord?
2. Does this scripture (Eph 5:1-11), on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it?
Paul,
Sorry my friend but I don't follow you. The “unfruitful works of darkness” in Ephesians 5 have nothing to do with the issue. Paul said that we could enter an idol's temple and eat the meat that was sacrificed as long as it does not cause our brother to stumble (1 Cor. 8:9-13). How could passing out candy to kiddies on halloween be worse then eating meat in an idol's temple? Yet Paul said that we are free to eat meat in an idol's temple.Do you think it reasonable to argue from the greater to the lesser? If eating meat in an idol's temple is okay (the greater), then giving the kiddies candy on halloween (the lesser) is also okay.
Or do you think that passing out candy to kiddies is a greater evil than feasting in an idol's temple?
thinker
David said:
Quote “Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven, for the heathen are dismayed by them. For the customs of the people are vain” (Jer. 10:2, 3) To All,
David's use of scripture above is typical of his JW backwards theology. He employs old covenant rules to cancel out the new covenant. David has it backwards. The new covenant cancels out the old (Hebrews 8).David's backwards hermeneutic has led him to the JW conclusion that it is wrong to donate your blood to needy and dying people. So what good is David's religion?
thinker
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