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Hi CON,
Belief in God has never saved anyone.
Awareness of the Creator is commonplace but listening to His Son is vital.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2009,12:35) Hi CON,
Belief in God has never saved anyone.
Awareness of the Creator is commonplace but listening to His Son is vital.
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;….and so many others.
Belief in God and his Christ doesn't save?
They believe but they do not love, Nick. The Lord knows whos are his…….
There is no other requirement for salvation but to believe in the one he sent.
Hi Not3,
So knowing about God and believing we love him saves us?
Belief in Jesus is obedient belief-then he knows us.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 23 2009,09:08) To all, Is the U.S. supporting paganism with the statue of the goddess of liberty they have in New York Harbor?
Why or Why not?
Hi Kerwin:The statue was a gift from France to symbolize the declaration of Independence of the U.S.
Therefore, I do not believe that the U.S. is supporting paganism.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (t8 @ Oct. 22 2009,20:12) The way I see it is that much of what is called Christian is mere christian labels on a pagan heart. There is no doubt about that. Jesus wasn't born on Christmas day and Easter most likely wasn't the time that he died and rose again. If we believe such, then we only provide evidence for pagans to say to us that we believe in their religion and Jesus is just another name for a pagan messiah or the latest iteration of a long line of pagan messiahs that were born on Dec 25. That said, we who are of Christ and filled with the Spirit of God have a much greater one in us than he that is in the world.
If our heart is pure, then what we do is pure. No pagan holiday can take that away from us. Darkness cannot overcome light. Only the lack of light brings darkness.
Yes truth is very important, and being legalistic is not necessarily false, but it is not the best way.
There is a better way than the Law. In fact are we not warned to stay away from people who say “do not touch, do not taste”.
david, are you not saying to WJ “do not partake/touch/give away tracts on Halloween.
Are you not being legalistic and preaching that which is less than grace and against the freedom we have in Christ?
I do not judge WJ in this matter. I wouldn't dare. He is exercising his freedom in Christ. Sure, maybe he might of offended some with his freedom, but then the same could perhaps be said about you. You seem free to condemn those who exercise their freedom. Perhaps that too can weaken the faith of a weak person who may be listening in to the conversation? Perhaps someone listening right now who served/serves God on Halloween is now thinking that he might have sinned? We never really know the full impact our words can have on others.
I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace. We are given clear teaching as to what the difference is in the Book of Romans. Paul's conclusion is that anything that is not of faith is sin.
Therefore, whether it is Halloween or not, if it is not of faith then it is sin. Surely we can do works of faith on any day without being accused of sin?
it is also known you cannot mix the light with the dark, you cannot have two masters.truth and faith being mixed with man and world, is like constatine back in his day, taking the two giving it a good stir and coming out with something that everyone will accept.
some did not turn to the new way, some did. this is the same, some will not turn to the new way, and some will.
Father has rules in his house, we should listen and obey them.
would it not be best just to avoid the shaky ground and stand on the rock?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,17:35) Hi CON,
Belief in God has never saved anyone.
Awareness of the Creator is commonplace but listening to His Son is vital.
So everyone in the OT is doomed? Just a thought.Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 22 2009,18:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2009,12:35) Hi CON,
Belief in God has never saved anyone.
Awareness of the Creator is commonplace but listening to His Son is vital.
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;….and so many others.
Belief in God and his Christ doesn't save?
My thoughts exactly.Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,08:19) t8 said: Quote I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace.
Exactly!thinker
Its through grace I can keep the law.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,18:18) Hi Not3,
So knowing about God and believing we love him saves us?
Belief in Jesus is obedient belief-then he knows us.
How can you come to him unless you believe in and on him?Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 22 2009,19:01) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 22 2009,20:12) The way I see it is that much of what is called Christian is mere christian labels on a pagan heart. There is no doubt about that. Jesus wasn't born on Christmas day and Easter most likely wasn't the time that he died and rose again. If we believe such, then we only provide evidence for pagans to say to us that we believe in their religion and Jesus is just another name for a pagan messiah or the latest iteration of a long line of pagan messiahs that were born on Dec 25. That said, we who are of Christ and filled with the Spirit of God have a much greater one in us than he that is in the world.
If our heart is pure, then what we do is pure. No pagan holiday can take that away from us. Darkness cannot overcome light. Only the lack of light brings darkness.
Yes truth is very important, and being legalistic is not necessarily false, but it is not the best way.
There is a better way than the Law. In fact are we not warned to stay away from people who say “do not touch, do not taste”.
david, are you not saying to WJ “do not partake/touch/give away tracts on Halloween.
Are you not being legalistic and preaching that which is less than grace and against the freedom we have in Christ?
I do not judge WJ in this matter. I wouldn't dare. He is exercising his freedom in Christ. Sure, maybe he might of offended some with his freedom, but then the same could perhaps be said about you. You seem free to condemn those who exercise their freedom. Perhaps that too can weaken the faith of a weak person who may be listening in to the conversation? Perhaps someone listening right now who served/serves God on Halloween is now thinking that he might have sinned? We never really know the full impact our words can have on others.
I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace. We are given clear teaching as to what the difference is in the Book of Romans. Paul's conclusion is that anything that is not of faith is sin.
Therefore, whether it is Halloween or not, if it is not of faith then it is sin. Surely we can do works of faith on any day without being accused of sin?
it is also known you cannot mix the light with the dark, you cannot have two masters.truth and faith being mixed with man and world, is like constatine back in his day, taking the two giving it a good stir and coming out with something that everyone will accept.
some did not turn to the new way, some did. this is the same, some will not turn to the new way, and some will.
Father has rules in his house, we should listen and obey them.
would it not be best just to avoid the shaky ground and stand on the rock?
They believe since there is no law there is no darkness.At his second coming Jesus will raise all the believing dead (Rev 20:6)
John 3:36; He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Quote (david @ Oct. 22 2009,02:39) Quote Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Kathi,
Right. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with exchanging gifts. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with evergreen trees. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with lights. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with the date Dec 25th. Etc.
But, why do people on Dec 25th, bring an evergreen into their house and cover it with light and exchange gifts? Because, of ancient sun worship, because of ancient tree worship, and a festival that connected them all at the end of December where gifts were exchanged.
Does it not honor paganism to do the same things they were doing thousands of years ago, at the same time?
Nothing is wrong with a stone, as you say. But if an ancient people worshiped a particular stone on a particular day in a particular way…why would you adopt their practices? Would this not be inciting God to anger, by imitating things he saw and hated?
Hi David,
David I think you are great but I think that you need to go to your happy place and put on some happy music and enjoy the right hemisphere of your brain for a while. Your left hemisphere needs a night off. IMOKathi
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,14:18) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,08:19) t8 said: Quote I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace.
Exactly!thinker
Its through grace I can keep the law.
Sorry, but Galatians teach us differently
Galatians 5:4 ” You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
And in
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
verse 10 For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus
for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I know that you keep the Sabbath, however it was never for us Gentles. It was for the Jewish People
Exodus 31: 16-17
“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual Covenant.
verse 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever.
To Moses God gave the Ten Commandments in
Exodus 34:27-28
verse 28 So He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights, He neither ate bread or drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the WORDS OF THE COVENANT THE TEN COMMENTMENTS.We are under the New Covenant in
Luke 22:20…: This cup is the New Covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you.
In Math. 22:36-40
Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law
verse 37 Jesus said to him:” You shall love the LORD God with all of your heart, with all of your soul, and with all of your mind.”
verse 38 ” This is the first and great commandment.
verse 39 ” And the second is like it:” You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
verse 40 ” On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
If Jesus wanted us to keep the Sabbath, He would have said so. He was Jewish and He did keep the Sabbath however.
Also Jesus magnified the Law, on the Sermon on the Mount.
Paul writes about what we should do. Should we keep one day to the Lord, or the other. Some will keep one day, while another keeps all the same to the LORD.Since we are the temple of God, the Holy Spirit is in us and we worship God in Spirit and in Truth. IMO it is more profitable to keep all the days to the LORD.
Galatians also says if you want to keep the law of the Old Covenant, you should keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5:4 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised , that he is a debtor to keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5-6 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Simple put, we are under the Blood of Christ.
Also Gods Law of the New Covenant are written in our Hearts. To keep it out of Love and not of the Letter of the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law and made it Holy.
Peace and Love IreneTo all,
I was looking for an answer much like the one Marty gave. It is true that the stature of liberty started as a pagan holy symbol but over time she became a symbol of the idea of liberty.
If you are worshiping false Gods on Christmas, Halloween, or any other day then stop worshiping them. If you are not then it is a day like any other day to be given to the Lord in a way you feel is best. If that means giving candy, dressing up in costumes, unwrapping presents,or whatever else except doing evil then so be it as long as you do it to the Lord.
Quote (georg @ Oct. 22 2009,20:25) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,14:18) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,08:19) t8 said: Quote I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace.
Exactly!thinker
Its through grace I can keep the law.
Sorry, but Galatians teach us differently
Galatians 5:4 ” You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
And in
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
verse 10 For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus
for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I know that you keep the Sabbath, however it was never for us Gentles. It was for the Jewish People
Exodus 31: 16-17
“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generation as a perpetual Covenant.
verse 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever.
To Moses God gave the Ten Commandments in
Exodus 34:27-28
verse 28 So He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights, He neither ate bread or drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the WORDS OF THE COVENANT THE TEN COMMENTMENTS.We are under the New Covenant in
Luke 22:20…: This cup is the New Covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you.
In Math. 22:36-40
Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law
verse 37 Jesus said to him:” You shall love the LORD God with all of your heart, with all of your soul, and with all of your mind.”
verse 38 ” This is the first and great commandment.
verse 39 ” And the second is like it:” You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
verse 40 ” On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
If Jesus wanted us to keep the Sabbath, He would have said so. He was Jewish and He did keep the Sabbath however.
Also Jesus magnified the Law, on the Sermon on the Mount.
Paul writes about what we should do. Should we keep one day to the Lord, or the other. Some will keep one day, while another keeps all the same to the LORD.Since we are the temple of God, the Holy Spirit is in us and we worship God in Spirit and in Truth. IMO it is more profitable to keep all the days to the LORD.
Galatians also says if you want to keep the law of the Old Covenant, you should keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5:4 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised , that he is a debtor to keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5-6 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Simple put, we are under the Blood of Christ.
Also Gods Law of the New Covenant are written in our Hearts. To keep it out of Love and not of the Letter of the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law and made it Holy.
Peace and Love Irene
Where do you see anywhere in my statement I keep the law for justification? I said it is through grace I can keep the law.I did not say because of the law I find grace, your using Galatians for something I did not say.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,14:18) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,08:19) t8 said: Quote I think this whole thread is basically a debate about law versus grace.
Exactly!thinker
Its through grace I can keep the law.
Not the letter of it but the spirit. It's through grace you keep the spirit of the law. We are not under the letter of the law. Paul said that the “letter kills but the spirit gives life” (2 Corinthians 3).You are a legalist. Legalism has to do with keeping the letter of the law. Paul discarded the letter of the law.
thinker
Constitutionalist said to Irene:
Quote Where do you see anywhere in my statement I keep the law for justification? I said it is through grace I can keep the law. I did not say because of the law I find grace, your using Galatians for something I did not say.
If you keep the letter you will die for the letter “kills” (2 Cor. 3).
thinker
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