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Quote “Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters”. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. ”WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE'S SERVANT? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; “another man considers every day alike”. EACH ONE SHOULD BE “FULLY CONVINCED IN HIS OWN MIND. he who regards one day as special, does so to the lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. Rom 14:1-6 Again, what part of these scriptures do you disagree with David?
I disagree with none of this scripture WJ.
It's how you misapply it to your syncretism that I disagree with. (See end of post above.)I also noticed you never did answer my question. It is so irritating when people say they answer my question, and then I make it a one word answer question and even number the choices, so all you have to do is put down a number, not even a word…and they can't even put down the number.
Clearly, you did not answer my question. Not the first time. Not this time. Stop saying you did.
Quote And giving gospel tracts to children and a piece of candy in Christ's name is unholy how? –Thinker.
Since when did putting Christ's name on something make it holy?
Do you remember the calf that the Israelites worshiped, while Moses was receiving the commandments. They called it what?…. “A festival to Jehovah.”
Maybe they even stamped God's name in the side of the calf. Maybe they were handing out candy to children. NONE OF THAT WOULD HAVE MADE IT OK. Or do you think it would have?
david
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,13:49) Quote (georg @ Oct. 22 2009,02:59) I find it rather amazing that Halloween gets so much attention. I find that so ridiculous. Is it so important to you? There is no sense in something like that.
Irene
Hi Irene,
It is David and Con who are giving halloween all the attention. As the result of this discussion I see that some christians are more superstitious about satan and demons then what I had previously thought. I hadn't thought about halloween that much before. I am used to just treating it like another day. We all bring some kind of baggage into our belief system but David and Con have been ridiculous. I have engaged on this thread because I saw the things being said as an attack on the liberty Christ purchased for us. Now I am going to start giving out tracts and a piece of candy in Jesus' name. WJ made me aware that I was oblivious to the opportunities halloween presents. I especially got excited when I went on a site and discovered that halloween presents the most evangelistic opportunities of the year.Think about it. A lot of kids are going to come to my door. I don't even have to go out myself. It's a no-brainer! They will come to me and I can give them gospel literature. Almost all tracts will probably be thrown out. But you never know. It is as Spurgeon said, “How many thousands have been carried to heaven instrumentally upon the wings of these tracts, none can tell …”
If David and Con don't like it that's tough. I am not going to hide my light under a bushel because of a so called “spooky” day.
thinker
But you never know. It is as Spurgeon said, “How many thousands have been carried to heaven instrumentally upon the wings of these tracts, none can tell …”Another trinitarian belief, the dead go to heaven.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 21 2009,18:04) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,19:43) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2009,22:31) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,00:38) Quote God gives direction here to Gideon to pull down a pagan altar and use the Asherah as firewood to later use to burn an offering to the Lord on the new altar that Gideon was to build in the same place and this time it would be an altar for the Lord. So you see, the Lord did not concern Himself with the purpose of what lied there before. It didn't bother Him to build on the ruins of the pagan altar. So, I see this new altar to have, in a sense, the pagan roots since it is built over what used to be pagan. Follow along here…the new Godly altar replaced the pagan altar. I see Christmas as the Godly holiday replacing the pagan holiday (the Winter Solstice)…Easter also.
Or, maybe the message here is that Christmas, Easter, and halloween should be used as firewood?Lightenup, there is nothing intrinsically bad with the wood that they were worshipping, the sacred pole. It was just wood. So, they could burn it. But, understand that Jehovah hated false god worship. Burning the pole was not wrong. In fact, they were commanded to do this: (Ex 34:13; De 12:3)
But it would be different to take that thing that Jehovah hated and tie it around your neck and call every day on “Pole day” give people little poles in honor of the pole.
Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Regarding the “wood” and not hanging little logs around our neck I suppose you are alluding to crosses. I see the cross similar to the altar that God had Gideon build in His honor. On that altar, like the cross, a sacrifice was made. God never tells us to tear down our altars that were built in honor of Him does He? I believe that the altars built in the OT as a memorial of an event that involved the true God in someway were pleasing to Him. People didn't worship the altar, they worshiped at the altar. In a similar way, Christians don't wear a cross around their neck in order to worship the cross but to remember a significant event that involved God. I do think that this pleases God.
The Spirit brings joy to the cross because on it sin was defeated, satan brings death to the cross and he hates it. I think that the cross should be a symbol of Jesus's victory and bring great joy…nothing to despise at all.
God bless,
Kathi
I dont wear a cross. Its an immage.
Boy I guess you should have been there to inform those constructing Solomon's temple about their “image” problem.Or maybe you should have been there to talk to Moses about that image of the serpent he made.
What were those “images” above the mercy seat of the ark?
Hmmm….
Maybe the problem is bowing down and worshiping them….and not the images themsleves…
Hmmm….
Is it why the Catholics took that commandment out?Quote David, who is playing god by determining that some how we must be offending some “Brother” and causing them to stumble and therefore sinning, for giving out candy and Bible tracts to kids. You know nothing about who we offend and who we don't do you David? Therfore you should stop judging us shouldn't you?
–WJ
You say syncretism is ok for halloween.
I say the Bible doesn't back up this claim.You say Paul said you had freedom to do pretty much whatever you like, as long as you think it's ok.
I say Paul was speaking of things that weren't wrong, but could be viewed as wrong–actual true matters of conscience.You say I am judging.
I say I have been accused of being bad associations like 8 times on this thread, and now of playing god.We are both saying what we think is right. One of us is wrong. I think halloween (based on where it came from and what the Bible says) is grossly on the other side of the conscience line. You, do not. You think syncretism is ok in this instance.
How can I frame my statements so that you don't feel I'm judging you personally while I am at the same time speaking against halloween–when you continue to say you have nothing to do with halloween, but are only copying the date and some of the customs. Since you continue to say what you're doing personally, we must look at that. If you just want to discuss halloween, that would be easier. But you continue to justify syncretism, and say that if you do it your way, it is acceptable. So, that makes it personal.
david
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 22 2009,04:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 20 2009,11:05) HI NOT3,
At the very least halloween glorifies witchcraft and the occult.
We should think about it.
I don't know……Ask a child what Halloween “glorifies” and I bet you wouldn't get witchcraft and the occult. You would hear things like, the harvest, pumpkins, candy, parties, trick-or-treating, special food and music, games…….
Witchcraft would be very low on their list.
Ask a child what “glorifies” mean and you'll get: “What?”
(I guess that depends on the child's age.)Mandy, why don't you ask a child to draw a picture of halloween?
We know what will be in that picture. I remember when I was in Grade 2, making a large moving hanging skeleton. I remember making a picture: the bats, the moon, the haunted house, the ghosts, the graves. (Ah, Catholic school.)
When children think “halloween” I don't think they would draw a picture of a harvest, or of games and parties, or even of candy. I think by far most would draw something like I mentioned above.Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,20:35) So, I had a thought to look at the history of Purim. Maybe this can be of interest. Does anyone know if God detested this man instituted celebration? Look how they celebrated it…with costumes, giving gifts of food and drink, etc. Purim (Hebrew: פורים (help·info) Pûrîm “lots”, related to Akkadian pūru) is a festival that commemorates the deliverance of the Jewish people of the ancient Persian Empire from Haman's plot to annihilate them, as recorded in the Biblical Book of Esther (Megillat Esther). According to the story, Haman cast lots to determine the day upon which to exterminate the Jews.
Purim is celebrated annually according to the Hebrew calendar on the 14th day of the Hebrew month of Adar (Adar II in leap years), the day following the victory of the Jews over their enemies; as with all Jewish holidays, Purim begins at sundown on the previous secular day. In cities that were protected by a surrounding wall at the time of Joshua, including Shushan (Susa) and Jerusalem, Purim is celebrated on the 15th of the month, known as Shushan Purim. Purim is characterized by public recitation of the Book of Esther (keriat ha-megilla), giving mutual gifts of food and drink (mishloach manot), giving charity to the poor (mattanot la-evyonim), and a celebratory meal (se'udat Purim);[1] other customs include drinking wine, wearing of masks and costumes, and public celebration.
Jewish exiles from the Kingdom of Judah who had been living in the Babylonian captivity (6th Century BCE) found themselves under Persian rule after Babylonia was in turn conquered by the Persian Empire. According to the Book of Esther, Haman, royal vizier to King Ahasuerus planned to kill the Jews, but his plans were foiled by Esther, his queen. Mordecai, a palace official, cousin and foster parent of Esther, subsequently replaced Haman. The Jews were delivered from being the victims of an evil decree against them and were instead allowed by the King to destroy their enemies, and the day after the battle was designated as a day of feasting and rejoicing……Mordecai assumes a prominent position in Ahasuerus' court, and institutes an annual commemoration of the delivery of the Jewish people from annihilation.
Found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim
I don't recall that the Lord is upset over this even though it was a man instituted annual celebration. Therefore, just because some celebration was instituted by man does not make it something that shouldn't be celebrated.
Go Esther!
Kathi
Puwr:A special feast among the post exilic Jews, to celebrate their deliverance from Haman's destruction through queen Esther's heroic actions.
It is a day of Independence and Thanksgiving.
How does this equate with halloween? Other than its man made.
Man made is not my argument.
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,22:35) I think a lot of people think they have FREEDOM, when really, they are enslaved to the ways of the world. They are forced to compromise, and combine truth with lies, pure worship with old pagan ideas.
They have little choice but to partake in some way. They will make every effort to call it “their way” or say they are doing it on “their terms.” But what choice do they have? None, really. It is so weird to see them shackled to the world and it's holidays, while claiming they are free. In order to gain the world's acceptance, to appear normal to the world, normal to their friends and family, they must partake, in some way. So, they compromise. 'I will celebrate your holiday but in my way. Freedom!'Sure.
Paul spoke of the need of humankind to be set free from “enslavement to corruption.” (Ro 8:21)
To those who thought they had freedom just because they were Abraham’s fleshly descendants, Jesus pointed out that they were slaves of sin, and he said: “Therefore if the Son sets you free, you will be actually free.”—Joh 8:31-36; compare Ro 6:18, 22.
Saying you are free, does not mean you are free. Just like saying “Lord Lord” does not mean you are following the Lord. (Mat 7)
And, one can definitely mis-use their freedom in Christ:
“YOU were, of course, called for freedom, brothers; only do not use this freedom as an inducement for the flesh, but through love slave for one another.” (Gal 5:13)
This freedom was to be used to “slave for one another.” So, this brings us back to how our freedom can affect others.
If eating stumbled a brother, Paul would never eat, he said. How serious a thing, this is, then.NOR ARE WE TO USE OUR FREEDOM AS AN EXCUSE FOR BADNESS:
“Be as free people, and yet holding YOUR freedom, not as a blind for badness, but as slaves of God.” (1 Peter 2:16)
The apostle Paul enjoyed the freedom he had gained through Christ but refrained from using his freedom to please himself or from exercising it to the point of hurting others.
In his letter to the congregation at Corinth, he showed that he would not injure another person’s conscience by doing something that he had the Scriptural freedom to do but that might be questioned by another with less knowledge, whose conscience might be offended by Paul’s acts.
And now, what some would call the flip side:
Paul cites as an example the eating of meat offered before an idol prior to being put in the market to be sold. Eating such meat might cause one with a weak conscience to criticize Paul’s proper freedom of action and thereby to act as a judge of Paul, which would be wrong. Therefore, Paul said: “Why should it be that my freedom is judged by another person’s conscience? If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks?” —1Co 10:23-30.Paul implies that while he would not want to do something by which the weak brother would be offended, thereby causing him to judge Paul, the weak one should likewise consider his brother, striving for maturity by getting more knowledge and training so that his conscience will not be easily offended, causing him to view others wrongly.—1Co 10:29, 30; Ro 14:10.
1 Cor 10:30, I'm certain many here would cling to that last verse. But understand that Paul was not doing anything wrong. He was eating meat which was made by God, but which was destined to be used for a wrong purpose. Yet, there was nothing intrinsically wrong with the meat, provided it was bled.
So, WJ, Thinker, if you bought pumpkins which were destined to be used for Halloween, and decided you didn't need all the pumpkins, I would have no problem taking that pumpkin off your hands and using it to make a sweet delicious pumpkin pie. I may even give you a piece.
While a pumpkin is used for the Halloween holiday, there is nothing intrinsically bad with it, just like the meat Paul spoke of. It was the PURPOSE that the meat and the pumpkin that it would be used for that was bad.
So, I don't think your repeated usage of those verses to apply, at all, in any way. What do you think?
david
David, it appears that would be legalistic for them.Quote “I HAVE SAID “DO AS YOU PLEASE ON OCT 31ST” AND I WILL DO WHAT I BELIEVE I SHOULD DO”. I WILL NOT CONDEMN YOU OR CAST SHADOW ON YOUR HEART FOR NOT DOING WHAT I DO, BUT NEITHER SHOULD YOU DO THAT TO ME, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM ME?”. –WJ
Wow! The big letters! Oh my.
I kind of find the above, like me saying: “listen, you believe the trinity and I'll not believe the trinity and we won't discuss it.” Except, this is a forum. The subject is “halloween.” You don't have to discuss it.
First, obviously, regarding me not celebrating halloween, it's hard for you to condemn me for that. And you can't condemn me for not handing out tracts to the 4 or 5 kids that would show up at my house, because well, I sort of do that all the time. (But, when dealing with kids, you have to be somewhat aware/considerate of the parents.)
Hey, have you ever tried giving out tracts on non-holidays?
Obviously, WJ, you are going to do what you do, and I am going to do what I do. Listen, I don't expect you to change. I do think that you truly have convinced yourself and believe that what you are doing is right. If you want me to stop saying that syncretism isn't Biblically ok, well I can't do that. Actually, i am thinking it is time to move on to something else, anyway. If you stop responding, and saying my belief on this is wrong, I will gladly do the same.
david.
Quote Hi Keith,
So are you fine with changing the saying “Merry Christmas” to “Happy holidays?” Do you now say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas?” Does that not irk you that the country is slowly taking “Christ” out of Christmas?–lightenup
I think, eventually, we'll return to the standard “Lo Saturnalia” as a greeting. Kathi, you do know that the exchanging of gifts, the date itself, was around before Christ. It was apostate Christians who added the “Christ” to Saturnalia a few hundred years after Christ. You know, the earliest Christians refused to celebrate Christ's (or anyone's) birthday, because they thought it a custom of heathens, what with the heathen customs (cake, candles, birthday wishes, demons, spirits, etc.) Again, it wasn't until a few hundred years after Christ, that “Christians” even began celebrating birthdays.
Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,16:52) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,00:40) Quote Christmas without Jesus is just a winter holiday. I will celebrate Christmas. Almost every part of Christmas existed before Jesus was born.
David,
Almost every part of the new altar probably existed within the old altar too. Stones are stones. The difference is who is the altar (celebration in this case) built in honor of.
Right. And who was the dies natalies solis invicti in honor of? Or the Roman Saturnalia? Who was it in honor of?
Sun god, and Saturn god.Question: Why does it seem “Christian” holidays are always built on the bones of pagan holidays? “Easter” is the name of a false god.
Quote Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Kathi,
Right. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with exchanging gifts. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with evergreen trees. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with lights. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with the date Dec 25th. Etc.
But, why do people on Dec 25th, bring an evergreen into their house and cover it with light and exchange gifts? Because, of ancient sun worship, because of ancient tree worship, and a festival that connected them all at the end of December where gifts were exchanged.
Does it not honor paganism to do the same things they were doing thousands of years ago, at the same time?
Nothing is wrong with a stone, as you say. But if an ancient people worshiped a particular stone on a particular day in a particular way…why would you adopt their practices? Would this not be inciting God to anger, by imitating things he saw and hated?
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,23:39) Quote Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Kathi,
Right. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with exchanging gifts. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with evergreen trees. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with lights. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with the date Dec 25th. Etc.
But, why do people on Dec 25th, bring an evergreen into their house and cover it with light and exchange gifts? Because, of ancient sun worship, because of ancient tree worship, and a festival that connected them all at the end of December where gifts were exchanged.
Does it not honor paganism to do the same things they were doing thousands of years ago, at the same time?
Nothing is wrong with a stone, as you say. But if an ancient people worshiped a particular stone on a particular day in a particular way…why would you adopt their practices? Would this not be inciting God to anger, by imitating things he saw and hated?
David, because if they toss a nativity scene in the mix, it magically makes it godly!Thinker, WJ, refused to answer this question. I was wondering what your thoughts were?
Which is more important. 1. Your freedom. Or, 2. your brother?
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 22 2009,18:41) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,23:39) Quote Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Kathi,
Right. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with exchanging gifts. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with evergreen trees. Nothing is instrinsically wrong with lights. Nothing is intrinsically wrong with the date Dec 25th. Etc.
But, why do people on Dec 25th, bring an evergreen into their house and cover it with light and exchange gifts? Because, of ancient sun worship, because of ancient tree worship, and a festival that connected them all at the end of December where gifts were exchanged.
Does it not honor paganism to do the same things they were doing thousands of years ago, at the same time?
Nothing is wrong with a stone, as you say. But if an ancient people worshiped a particular stone on a particular day in a particular way…why would you adopt their practices? Would this not be inciting God to anger, by imitating things he saw and hated?
David, because if they toss a nativity scene in the mix, it magically makes it godly!
Ah, and even the nativity scene is all wrong. According to the Bible, the magi (an unspecified number of astrologers, chaldeans) didn't arrive until a couple of years after Jesus was born. They should not be in the picture. And they are certainly not kings. And it's quite possible that Jesus was not born in a stable. Everyone had mangers back then. There were no 7-11's. The word translated “lodging room” is the exact same word as “guest room.” He went to David's city, because he was of that family. He would have stayed with his family, but there was no room in the “guest room.”
A “manger” is the thing animals eat from, not the building.Where there isn't paganism, there is lies and misconceptions.
Quote In a similar way, Christians don't wear a cross around their neck in order to worship the cross but to remember a significant event that involved God. –kathi
Perhaps you don't worship it, but a whole lot of people do. They bow down to it, kiss it, pray to it, worship it, adore it, love it…
I sometimes wonder if they remember that they think Jesus died a horrible death on the cross. I know that if someone killed their son with a knife, they wouldn't make a replica of that same knife and wear it and kiss it and adore it.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 22 2009,18:01) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Oct. 21 2009,18:04) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,19:43) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2009,22:31) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,00:38) Quote God gives direction here to Gideon to pull down a pagan altar and use the Asherah as firewood to later use to burn an offering to the Lord on the new altar that Gideon was to build in the same place and this time it would be an altar for the Lord. So you see, the Lord did not concern Himself with the purpose of what lied there before. It didn't bother Him to build on the ruins of the pagan altar. So, I see this new altar to have, in a sense, the pagan roots since it is built over what used to be pagan. Follow along here…the new Godly altar replaced the pagan altar. I see Christmas as the Godly holiday replacing the pagan holiday (the Winter Solstice)…Easter also.
Or, maybe the message here is that Christmas, Easter, and halloween should be used as firewood?Lightenup, there is nothing intrinsically bad with the wood that they were worshipping, the sacred pole. It was just wood. So, they could burn it. But, understand that Jehovah hated false god worship. Burning the pole was not wrong. In fact, they were commanded to do this: (Ex 34:13; De 12:3)
But it would be different to take that thing that Jehovah hated and tie it around your neck and call every day on “Pole day” give people little poles in honor of the pole.
Well,
I think the message is that pagan roots do not have to dictate what is built upon them and what is built upon them can be totally in God's will. An argument based on pagan roots is insignificant to me because of this “altar” passage. God can have us build over something that was used for a false god. The mere fact that common elements (stones) were used does not make the common elements bad.Regarding the “wood” and not hanging little logs around our neck I suppose you are alluding to crosses. I see the cross similar to the altar that God had Gideon build in His honor. On that altar, like the cross, a sacrifice was made. God never tells us to tear down our altars that were built in honor of Him does He? I believe that the altars built in the OT as a memorial of an event that involved the true God in someway were pleasing to Him. People didn't worship the altar, they worshiped at the altar. In a similar way, Christians don't wear a cross around their neck in order to worship the cross but to remember a significant event that involved God. I do think that this pleases God.
The Spirit brings joy to the cross because on it sin was defeated, satan brings death to the cross and he hates it. I think that the cross should be a symbol of Jesus's victory and bring great joy…nothing to despise at all.
God bless,
Kathi
I dont wear a cross. Its an immage.
Boy I guess you should have been there to inform those constructing Solomon's temple about their “image” problem.Or maybe you should have been there to talk to Moses about that image of the serpent he made.
What were those “images” above the mercy seat of the ark?
Hmmm….
Maybe the problem is bowing down and worshiping them….and not the images themsleves…
Hmmm….
Is it why the Catholics took that commandment out?
Ah.. more hear say. We didn't take it out. We just don't use your new fangled numbering system. However what you consider the second commandment is very much a part of the first.Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,23:42) Thinker, WJ, refused to answer this question. I was wondering what your thoughts were? Which is more important. 1. Your freedom. Or, 2. your brother?
Brother!Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 22 2009,19:42) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,23:42) Thinker, WJ, refused to answer this question. I was wondering what your thoughts were? Which is more important. 1. Your freedom. Or, 2. your brother?
Brother!
David,
I have answered you and so has WJ. If the exercise of my liberty would cause my brother to stumble, that is, to act against his own conscience I would abstain from feasting in an idol's temple. If he is just trying to govern my own conscience then I will tell him to go fly a kite. You and Con would not act against your own consciences. So go fly a kite.Giving out a gospel tract and a piece of candy in Christ's name is a different matter. I would not hide my light under a bushel for a brother. In this situation I am to obey God rather than men.
“For if I seek to please men I cannot be the servant of Christ” (Paul).
thinker
david, acting righteous just comes across as legalistic. No amount of holier than thou's makes the JWs look like the real church.
They are just one organisation of many. Often these organisations write their own versions of things to make themselves look good.
Pointing out how bad everyone else can perhaps make the JW's look good. But it is like that parable about the sheep. On a sunny day they look so glistening white. But when it snows they look so dirty.
God's righteousness is whiter than the snow.
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