Halloween is coming up

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 14 2009,14:28)

Constitutionalist said;

Quote

Paul's statement that there is nothing unclean of itself (Ro 14:14) does not mean that there are no unclean things.

In another letter, he states God's clear command to abstain from unclean things. (2Co 6:17)

The unclean things in 2 Corinthians 6:17 are defined in the context as being unbelievers.

Con:

Quote

God specifically separates the clean and unclean foods in the Bible. (Lev 11:1-47)

We are not under the Levitical code any longer (Hebrews 7). All foods are cleansed now (Acts 9:9-15).

Con:

Quote

Paul warns Christians not to indulge in what they believe is evil. (Ro 14:23, 1Co 8:10-12)

Agreed.

thinker

The first test of humankind was the food test. (Ge 2:15,17)

The first test of Daniel in Babylon was the food test. (Da 1:8)

The first test after Jesus began His ministry was the food test. (Mt 4:1-4)

Only those who are faithful in seemingly small matters will pass the greater tests. (Jer 12:5, Mt 25:22,23) (Smaller test example: Da 1:11-20) (Greater test examples: Da 3:16-27, Da 6:10-12,16-22)

The original diet for humankind consisted of seed-bearing plants, fruits, and nuts. (Ge 1:29)

Herb – “A plant or vegetable with a soft or succulent stalk or stem, which dies to the root every year, and is thus distinguished from a tree and a shrub, which have ligneous or hard woody stems. … The word herb comprehends all the grasses, and numerous plants used for culinary purposes.” (Webster's Dictionary 1828)

Herb – “A seed-producing annual, biennial, or perennial that does not develop persistent woody tissue but dies down at the end of a growing season.” (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 2003)

Herb – “In botany, a herb is a plant that does not produce a woody stem, and in temperate climates usually dies, either completely (annual herb) or back to the roots (perennial herb), at the end of the growing season.” (Wikipedia)

Since all herbs produce seeds and this verse specifically emphasizes herbs bearing seed, the implication is that the seed bearing stages are to serve as food, rather than the non seed-bearing stages. This points to the consumption of whole grains and vegetables, rather than green grasses.

The original diet for humankind was vegetarian.

The original diet for the animals was vegetarian and included the green grasses. (Ge 1:30)

Adam lived 930 years. (Ge 5:5)

After the fall, our diet became more focused around herbs of the field. (Ge 3:17,18)

The tree of life and other trees of the graden of Eden were no longer available. (Ge 3:22-24 compare Ge 2:16,17)

Eating the fruit of trees is convenient and requires little effort.

Eating herbs of the field requires an annual cycle of hard labor, which was one of the prescribed punishments for disobedience. (Ge 3:19)

For humankind, the diet after the fall remained vegetarian.

Methuselah lived 969 years. He was the oldest recorded person. (Ge 5:27)

October 14, 2009 at 9:34 pm#150383

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 15 2009,06:34)

Hi,
This peculiar american tradition based on spiritism should not be posted in this section should it?

No Halloween in NZ? Really? Hmmmm Any other custom that is close? I'm curious….

October 14, 2009 at 9:35 pm#150384

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 14 2009,14:28)

Constitutionalist said;

Quote

Paul's statement that there is nothing unclean of itself (Ro 14:14) does not mean that there are no unclean things.

In another letter, he states God's clear command to abstain from unclean things. (2Co 6:17)

The unclean things in 2 Corinthians 6:17 are defined in the context as being unbelievers.

Con:

Quote

God specifically separates the clean and unclean foods in the Bible. (Lev 11:1-47)

We are not under the Levitical code any longer (Hebrews 7). All foods are cleansed now (Acts 9:9-15).

Con:

Quote

Paul warns Christians not to indulge in what they believe is evil. (Ro 14:23, 1Co 8:10-12)

Agreed.

thinker

Noah was aware of the distinction between clean and unclean animals. (Ge 7:1-3)

The clean animals were used for sacrifice. (Ge 8:20)

The flood temporarily destroyed the vegetation, making the eating of meat necessary. (Ge 7:19-24, Ge 8:3-5, Ge 9:1-3)

It was understood that only the clean animals were allowed to be eaten.

Eating an unclean animal would have resulted in the extinction of that species.

After beginning to eat meat the life span steadily declined: 600,438,433,437,239,239,230,148,205 (Ge 11:10-32), 70-80 (Ps 90:10)

The eating of fat and blood were forbidden. (Ge 9:4, Lev 3:17)

Because of transgression, God clearly spelled out the diet laws. (Lev 11:46,47, Lev 20:25, Dt 14:3)

Clean animals (Lev 11:2,3,7)

NOT pig – a scavenger that carries trichina worm, which causes trichinosis.

Trichinosis – “infestation with or disease caused by trichinae and marked especially by muscular pain, dyspnea, fever, weakness, and edema” (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 2003)

Dyspnea – “difficult or labored respiration” (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 2003)

Edema – “an abnormal infiltration and excess accumulation of serous fluid in connective tissue or in a serous cavity” (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 2003)

Clean fish (Lev 11:9)

NOT shrimp, lobster – scavengers

NOT clams, oysters, and other shellfish – absorb poisons

NOT squid, eel, catfish

Clean birds (Lev 11:13-19)

NOT birds of prey and scavengers

Clean insects (ONLY certain locusts and beetles) (Lev 11:20-22)

Reptiles (NONE) (Lev 11:41,42) (compare Ge 3:14)

Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah continued to follow the diet laws in Babylon. (Da 1:8,11,12,15)

God condemned the priests for teaching that there was no difference between the unclean and the clean. (Eze 22:26,31)

In God's plan for a new temple, the priests were to teach the difference between the unclean and the clean. (Eze 44:23)

Even of the pagans, God expresses His abhorence of the eating of forbidden foods. (Zec 9:6,7 compare Lev 17:10-12)

The disciples followed the same, Biblical diet laws. (Ac 10:11-14)

The vision was about the Gentiles, not about eating unclean food. (See Difficult verses section)

Peter's statement reveals his adherence to the diet laws.

“But Hegesippus, who lived immediately after the apostles, gives the most accurate account in the fifth book of his Memoirs. He writes as follows: “James, the brother of the Lord, succeeded to the government of the Church in conjunction with the apostles. He has been called the Just by all from the time of our Saviour to the present day; for there were many that bore the name of James. He was holy from his mother's womb; and he drank no wine nor strong drink, nor did he eat flesh.”” (Church History, Eusebius, book 2, chap. 23, p. 4)

In the end-time destruction of the wicked, the wicked are described as “eating swine's flesh” and other “abominations”. (Isa 66:16-18,22-24 compare Isa 65:1-5)

Modern Babylon is described as “a cage of every unclean and hateful bird”. (Rev 18:1,2) (Note the diet law imagery)

The diet in Heaven will be vegetarian. (Isa 65:17,21,22, Rev 22:2)

In Eden, animals were not eaten by humans nor by other animals. (Ge 1:29,30)

God cares about animals. (Dt 25:4, Jnh 4:11, Ps 145:9, Mt 6:26, Mt 10:29)

The righteous are kind to animals, but the wicked are not. (Pr 12:10)

Thou shalt not kill. (Ex 20:13)

The primary application is toward man (Mt 7:12, Mt 22:37-40), but the 6th commandment also appeals for love throughout God's entire creation.

There will be no killing of any kind in Heaven. (Isa 11:6-9, Isa 65:25, Rev 21:4)

October 14, 2009 at 9:37 pm#150385

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,03:48)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,11:42)

To All…………if we look to the origins of the false and evil pagan festivals we can see there evil, but man has alway mast Evil with ideologies of Good, that is the deception in man. Thinker say what ever we think is pure is pure, that is PURE HOGWASH, GOD has told you “O” man what is GOOD”> In fact scripture does not say that it say “TO THE PURE” ALL THINGS ARE PURE”. PURE DOES NOT MEAN EVERYTHING I THINK IS OK IS OK. Pure means clear like pure water is clear. If we think clearly we see everything clearly, is what is being expressed there. It never ceases to amaze me how we can justify anything we want to. Not putting anyone down i have done this myself also. But we do need to see things from GOD perspective more and more as we grow in knowledge and understanding. These pagan day are just that PAGAN days and we are told not to (LEARN) the way of the Heathens. IMO

love to you all……………….gene

Gene

Paul taught against those who would put burdens of guilt on others based on their own conscience.

Its one think to share what your own convictions are and it is another thing to make demands on others because you believe something is wrong.

There is nothing in the scritpures that says children cannot oppose the “heathen practices” of Halloween, by dressing as doctors or pets or whatever and having fun getting candy.

Of course we are to make demands on others if not why does the scriptures tell us to admonish and correct others, instead you say live and let live even if it is filthy.

Do you believe anything is wrong?

October 14, 2009 at 9:37 pm#150386

Participant

Quote

(Not3in1 @ Oct. 14 2009,14:20)
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 14 2009,21:29)
Wow: Sometimes this site gets awfully trivial about opinions. No one said a word about the correct postings thinker wrote. No one gave him any credit for being scriptually on target. Just a bunch of hooey crap about satan and evil. I suppose all who are against halloween are most certainly against christmas. You know, the pagan roots back to nimrod and the tree. You surely don't worship the decorated tree or even allow it in your house, right? Look for devils and they are everywhere you look. Look for Jesus/God and peace and love will dominate your life. Its your choice. Oh and while you are degrading a person for a sexual expression remember that its not what comes out of a man that defiles him, its what he covers over and keeps inside to boil and simmer and eventually become a cancer or other form of sickness. Thinker your expression was fun and non-threatning! We are free in Christ together. TK

Amen, bro! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Love,
Mandy

Quote
Oh and while you are degrading a person for a sexual expression remember that its not what comes out of a man that defiles him, its what he covers over and keeps inside to boil and simmer and eventually become a cancer or other form of sickness.

Wrong!

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Matthhew 15:11

There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. Mark 7:15

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. Mark 7:20

October 14, 2009 at 9:38 pm#150387

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,09:20)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 14 2009,21:29)

Wow: Sometimes this site gets awfully trivial about opinions. No one said a word about the correct postings thinker wrote. No one gave him any credit for being scriptually on target. Just a bunch of hooey crap about satan and evil. I suppose all who are against halloween are most certainly against christmas. You know, the pagan roots back to nimrod and the tree. You surely don't worship the decorated tree or even allow it in your house, right? Look for devils and they are everywhere you look. Look for Jesus/God and peace and love will dominate your life. Its your choice. Oh and while you are degrading a person for a sexual expression remember that its not what comes out of a man that defiles him, its what he covers over and keeps inside to boil and simmer and eventually become a cancer or other form of sickness. Thinker your expression was fun and non-threatning! We are free in Christ together. TK

Amen, bro! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Love,
Mandy

Hey Mandy,
I am relieved you were not offended. The politically correct policewoman got me worried.

Jack

October 14, 2009 at 9:39 pm#150388

Participant

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:18)

Ephesians 5:1-3
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;

Oh, come off it Paul! Do you realize that what you are saying would ban you from life as we know it! Everything is “impure”. Is there any one thing, or any one person who is not?

We are to be holy as he is holy……sure but we also have to live here on earth, and in these human bodies who register only human nature.

What you're proposing – do you really think it's possible? And if so, celebrating Halloween (on whatever level) would be the very least of anyone's concerns, I dare say!

Hey, glad you're back! :;):
Love,
Mandy

October 14, 2009 at 9:40 pm#150389

942767

Participant

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 15 2009,09:15)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 14 2009,13:24)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 15 2009,08:09)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:02)

I offer this scripture and a double-barrelled question.

Ephesians 5:1-11
1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them

Is Halloween pleasing to the Lord? (check it's historical roots – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween), and if not does this scripture, on any level, allow for a “saints” participation in it?

Is 1:18……I agree with you completely on this issue. Trying to make Evil, Good is like turning a gutter rat into a Prince. The Catholic Church and there Protestant daughters, have fostered these things for years they were even taught to us in our public Schools, but have there origins in pure pagan practices, and as you brought out we are to avoid them as much as possible. I not advocating being a fanatic about it , but just use good Godly sense and why promote it any way. Tell me one good thing that comes from these devil and demon things. Adults participate in it to exorcise fanaticism and unreal imaginations of all types that has nothing to do with the reality of who and what they are. When i was a child only childern participated in Halloween , but the childern grow up and now they still do it as adults even more then they did when they were childern. IMO

gene

Paul said he was free in Christ to eat meat offered to idols. Deal with it.

thinker

Paul's statement that there is nothing unclean of itself (Ro 14:14) does not mean that there are no unclean things.

In another letter, he states God's clear command to abstain from unclean things. (2Co 6:17)

The distinction made in Ro 14:14 centers on the phrase “of itself”.

Anything that God separates (sanctifies) as being clean is clean.

Anything that God separates (condemns) as being unclean is unclean.

God specifically separates the clean and unclean foods in the Bible. (Lev 11:1-47)

God would never recommend a food or drink that is harmful to our health by falsely labeling it as clean.

A strong parallel exists between Ro 14:1-23, 1Co 8:1-13, and 1Co 10:21,27-30.

They all involve a divisive issue involving food and drink. (Ro 14:3,13,17, 1Co 8:1,8, , 1Co 10:21,27,28)

The all involve passively influencing others to sin over this issue. (Ro 14:13,15,20,23, 1Co 8:7,9-12, 1Co 10:29,30)

The 1Co verses clearly indicate the topic to be the controversy over consuming food and drink offered to idols by others. (1Co 8:1,4,7,10, 1Co 10:27,28)

The similarities give reason to believe that the Ro 14 verses refers to the same controversy.

The sinful act is committed by those who offer anything to an idol. (compare Ex 20:3-5)

In an over execise of caution, this sinful practice led some Christians to eat only vegetables, because they even feared the unknown previous use of purchased products.

Because clean food and drink does not switch its cleanliness simply because of its proximity to sinful practices (e.g., idol worship), they were considered to have weak consciences. (1Co 8:7,10)

Paul warns Christians not to indulge in what they believe is evil. (Ro 14:23, 1Co 8:10-12)

Paul warns against needless judgmental polarizations. (Ro 14:3,13, 1Co 8:8) (compare 1Co 1:10 and 2Ti 2:23)

The final decision was for all to reasonably avoid these controversial foods. (1Co 8:13, 1Co 10:27,28) (Ac 15:29, Rev 2:20)

Did Paul tell the Colossians they could eat and drink whatever they want? (Col 2:16) (No)

Note that the verse does NOT say “what you eat” or “what you drink”.

The food and drink refer to the various meal and drink offerings of the ceremonial law. (compare Lev 23:37)

Context: “a shadow of the things that were to come” (Col 2:17)

Did Paul tell the Colossians that the health laws are part of the ceremonial law and, therefore, obsolete? (Col 2:20-23) (No)

Some commands to “Touch not” and “handle not” were part of the ceremonial law. (Nu 19:11-22 note the salvation symbolism in verse 17)

However, verse 22 clearly identifies the context as being about man-made additions that were NOT commands from God.

Verse 23 clearly identifies these man-made practices as being for external show, rather than of any internal, spritiual usefulness.

Does God say that everything He created is good to be eaten? (1Ti 4:1-5) (No)

Sanctification by the word of God clearly indicates food which God has set apart as clean.

Celibacy and abstinence as a form of penance are condemned as apostate teachings.

Does the Bible say that concern over diet is insignificant? (Heb 13:8,9) (No)

Verse 9 clearly indicates the concern to be with “divers” and “strange” doctrines. These are the teachings of men, not the commandments of God.

Verse 8 emphsizes that God does not change. Therefore, His laws do not change. His ceremonial law was a foreshadowing, a symbolism, that was fulfilled in Christ. Since our bodies have not changed, His health laws still apply.

Amen. CT. And Jesus did not change these dietary laws as some teach.

Also, Haloween is not a holiday that I choose to celebrate.

Love in Christ,
Marty

October 14, 2009 at 9:42 pm#150391

Participant

Tim Kraft said:

Quote

Look for devils and they are everywhere you look. Look for Jesus/God and peace and love will dominate your life. Its your choice.

TK,
Right on! It is the defiled conscience which takes offense. The pure in heart do not get all bent out of shape.

thinker

October 14, 2009 at 9:42 pm#150392

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 15 2009,09:38)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,09:20)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 14 2009,21:29)

Amen, bro! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Love,
Mandy

Hey Mandy,
I am relieved you were not offended. The politically correct policewoman got me worried.

Jack

Actually I got a little bit of a kick out of your remark! :;):

It takes a lot more than that to offend me!!

Love,
Mandy

October 14, 2009 at 9:43 pm#150393

Participant

Mark 7:15
What then of these words of Jesus?
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
This texts simply points to a higher level of defilement – the human mind. Filth on the clothes and the skin are not as bad as filth in the stomach. Still worse is the filth in the mind. And worst of all is the unclean Spirit of Satan who roams this world and at the least excuse will pollute the unsuspecting human soul. Unclean animals and birds (snakes, dogs, vultures, bats etc.) symbolise Satan and his unbelieving followers; just as clean animals and birds (the ram, the lamb, the kid, the deer and the dove) symbolise Yahweh, His Son and the Holy Ghost. Knowingly eating unclean foods is insulting the Most High. It is not only blatant disobedience, but is tantamount to saying: 'I am going to partake of unclean meats even though I know they symbolise Satan and his filthy lifestyle.' This is an extremely dangerous stand to take.

Acts 10:9-16
Another misunderstood passage is found in the book of Acts. I quote:
Acts 10: 9: On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11: And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13: And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14: But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15: And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16: This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

In this experience the Almighty is teaching Peter, and all who later read the chapter, a great spiritual truth: that true believers in the Most High – of whatever nation – who were previously regarded as 'unclean dogs,' are now totally acceptable to Yahweh. Their previous unbelief had made them unclean: they were then likened unto dogs, pigs and snakes in the Almighty's eyes. But, because of their new-found faith in the Messiah they are now clean. They are now clean and wholly acceptable to the Most High and should also be accepted and welcomed by every strict Jew. Believing Gentiles, in other words, are now part of Yahweh's flock. They are His sheep. They are no longer to be regarded as dogs, swine or other unclean beasts. Because of their faith in Yeshua (Jesus) they have been cleansed through and through by God Himself and are now clean and holy. This symbolic drama on the rooftop was given to teach the Apostle Peter and subsequent generations of Christians that faith in Yeshua the Messiah purifies the vilest sinner, no matter from what nation he/she comes.
This passage is not to be taken as a lifting of the divine ban against eating unclean animals. Reptiles, dogs, cats, mice, swine, rabbits, shell fish, lobsters, prawns etc. are still unclean for human consumption. They should not be eaten. These unclean creatures symbolise unbelief: and unbelief pollutes a person, it makes him/her unclean. I repeat, unclean creatures are still unclean: just as unbelievers remain unbelievers until such time as genuine faith in God purges their uncleanness.

Because of these facts unclean meats should not be eaten;
especially in view of the coming Day of Judgement.
Remember the divine warning:

“They that sanctify themselves and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.”

October 14, 2009 at 9:45 pm#150394

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 14 2009,17:30)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,03:48)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,11:42)

love to you all……………….gene

Gene

Paul taught against those who would put burdens of guilt on others based on their own conscience.

Its one think to share what your own convictions are and it is another thing to make demands on others because you believe something is wrong.

There is nothing in the scritpures that says children cannot oppose the “heathen practices” of Halloween, by dressing as doctors or pets or whatever and having fun getting candy.

Man, you're my favorite Trinitarian!!

Have I told you that lately?

Love you,
Mandy

Hi Mandy

Thanks!

Love and Peace to you also!

Keith

October 14, 2009 at 9:48 pm#150395

Participant

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 14 2009,17:35)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 14 2009,14:28)

Constitutionalist said;

Quote

Paul's statement that there is nothing unclean of itself (Ro 14:14) does not mean that there are no unclean things.

In another letter, he states God's clear command to abstain from unclean things. (2Co 6:17)

The unclean things in 2 Corinthians 6:17 are defined in the context as being unbelievers.

Con:

Quote

God specifically separates the clean and unclean foods in the Bible. (Lev 11:1-47)

We are not under the Levitical code any longer (Hebrews 7). All foods are cleansed now (Acts 9:9-15).

Con:

Quote

Paul warns Christians not to indulge in what they believe is evil. (Ro 14:23, 1Co 8:10-12)

Agreed.

thinker

Noah was aware of the distinction between clean and unclean animals. (Ge 7:1-3)

The clean animals were used for sacrifice. (Ge 8:20)

The flood temporarily destroyed the vegetation, making the eating of meat necessary. (Ge 7:19-24, Ge 8:3-5, Ge 9:1-3)

It was understood that only the clean animals were allowed to be eaten.

Eating an unclean animal would have resulted in the extinction of that species.

After beginning to eat meat the life span steadily declined: 600,438,433,437,239,239,230,148,205 (Ge 11:10-32), 70-80 (Ps 90:10)

The eating of fat and blood were forbidden. (Ge 9:4, Lev 3:17)

Because of transgression, God clearly spelled out the diet laws. (Lev 11:46,47, Lev 20:25, Dt 14:3)

Clean animals (Lev 11:2,3,7)

NOT pig – a scavenger that carries trichina worm, which causes trichinosis.

Trichinosis – “infestation with or disease caused by trichinae and marked especially by muscular pain, dyspnea, fever, weakness, and edema” (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 2003)

Dyspnea – “difficult or labored respiration” (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 2003)

Edema – “an abnormal infiltration and excess accumulation of serous fluid in connective tissue or in a serous cavity” (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 2003)

Clean fish (Lev 11:9)

NOT shrimp, lobster – scavengers

NOT clams, oysters, and other shellfish – absorb poisons

NOT squid, eel, catfish

Clean birds (Lev 11:13-19)

NOT birds of prey and scavengers

Clean insects (ONLY certain locusts and beetles) (Lev 11:20-22)

Reptiles (NONE) (Lev 11:41,42) (compare Ge 3:14)

Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah continued to follow the diet laws in Babylon. (Da 1:8,11,12,15)

God condemned the priests for teaching that there was no difference between the unclean and the clean. (Eze 22:26,31)

In God's plan for a new temple, the priests were to teach the difference between the unclean and the clean. (Eze 44:23)

Even of the pagans, God expresses His abhorence of the eating of forbidden foods. (Zec 9:6,7 compare Lev 17:10-12)

The disciples followed the same, Biblical diet laws. (Ac 10:11-14)

The vision was about the Gentiles, not about eating unclean food. (See Difficult verses section)

Peter's statement reveals his adherence to the diet laws.

In the end-time destruction of the wicked, the wicked are described as “eating swine's flesh” and other “abominations”. (Isa 66:16-18,22-24 compare Isa 65:1-5)

Modern Babylon is described as “a cage of every unclean and hateful bird”. (Rev 18:1,2) (Note the diet law imagery)

The diet in Heaven will be vegetarian. (Isa 65:17,21,22, Rev 22:2)

In Eden, animals were not eaten by humans nor by other animals. (Ge 1:29,30)

God cares about animals. (Dt 25:4, Jnh 4:11, Ps 145:9, Mt 6:26, Mt 10:29)

The righteous are kind to animals, but the wicked are not. (Pr 12:10)

Thou shalt not kill. (Ex 20:13)

The primary application is toward man (Mt 7:12, Mt 22:37-40), but the 6th commandment also appeals for love throughout God's entire creation.

There will be no killing of any kind in Heaven. (Isa 11:6-9, Isa 65:25, Rev 21:4)

If you come under the law and keep it then if you fail in one point you are guilty of all!

October 14, 2009 at 9:48 pm#150396

Participant

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 15 2009,08:09)

Adults participate in it to exorcise fanaticism and unreal imaginations of all types that has nothing to do with the reality of who and what they are. When i was a child only childern participated in Halloween , but the childern grow up and now they still do it as adults even more then they did when they were childern.

What the heck is wrong with adults escaping from reality for while to have fun? Haven't you ever been lost in a fabulous book that you couldn't put down? That's an “escape” of sorts; like a movie? or a play? Whatever floats your boat? Good grief.

Remember guys, we're supposed to be making the gospel ATTRACTIVE and it's supposed to be GOOD NEWS! Not all these rules and judgements.

Jesus is alright with me. He said everything hangs on this: love God and love one another.

I think we fill in the rest, and sometimes we fill in the rest with a bunch of fear-based-garbage!

Love,
Mandy

October 14, 2009 at 9:49 pm#150397

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 14 2009,17:37)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 15 2009,03:48)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 14 2009,11:42)

love to you all……………….gene

Gene

Paul taught against those who would put burdens of guilt on others based on their own conscience.

Its one think to share what your own convictions are and it is another thing to make demands on others because you believe something is wrong.

There is nothing in the scritpures that says children cannot oppose the “heathen practices” of Halloween, by dressing as doctors or pets or whatever and having fun getting candy.

Of course we are to make demands on others if not why does the scriptures tell us to admonish and correct others, instead you say live and let live even if it is filthy.

Do you believe anything is wrong?

Do you make demands on people to live only as you do?

I dont believe it is wrong to pass out candy to kids dressed in costumes.

October 14, 2009 at 9:52 pm#150398

Participant

Marty said:

Quote

Amen. CT. And Jesus did not change these dietary laws as some teach.

Love in Christ,
Marty

You're right that Jesus did not change the dietary laws. God changed them after Jesus

Quote

9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”

You and Con are as Peter before He received his vision. If you're going to transfer old covenant Levitical regulations into the new covenant then why not offer lambs too?
How will you reinstitute the Levitical dietary regulations seeing that the Levitical priesthood has been done away?

thinker

October 14, 2009 at 9:55 pm#150400

Participant

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 14 2009,17:43)

Because of these facts unclean meats should not be eaten;
especially in view of the coming Day of Judgement.
Remember the divine warning:

More legallistic bull!

It is sanctified by the word of God and Prayer!

October 14, 2009 at 9:57 pm#150402

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 15 2009,09:39)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 15 2009,07:18)

Ephesians 5:1-3
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;

Oh, come off it Paul! Do you realize that what you are saying would ban you from life as we know it! Everything is “impure”. Is there any one thing, or any one person who is not?

We are to be holy as he is holy……sure but we also have to live here on earth, and in these human bodies who register only human nature.

What you're proposing – do you really think it's possible? And if so, celebrating Halloween (on whatever level) would be the very least of anyone's concerns, I dare say!

Hey, glad you're back! :;):
Love,
Mandy

Mandy,
You're a hoot Sis. You chew someone out and then say, “Hey, glad you're back.” :laugh:

thinker

October 14, 2009 at 10:00 pm#150404