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Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,09:42) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,09:37) Quote so David and Con want to do the same and hinder the evangelistic efforts of those who seize the opportunities that halloween presents. Thinker do you ever get tired of misleading people? More JW's will be “evangalizing” on that day than any other group I imagine.
So what is your fuss all about? I know, you are giving people the truth and WJ and I are not. And a piece of candy is necessarily a pagan practice.thinker
Thinker, I was just pointing out that this is not about hindering the spreading of the good news. You wrongly accuse me of attempting to do that. This thread is about halloween. He can hand out tracts to people on any day. Why does he make a special day of it on halloween? Did he choose that day, or did the pagans a long time ago?Quote I have never heard an objection from the world about giving candy and tracts to children. I hear this objection only from self righteous “christians.” –thinker.
That's weird? The world doesn't mind halloween. Well that must mean it's ok. Thinker, I think you are too deep in the world to see straight. The world does not object to most everything. The Bible says: “The world is passing away and so is it's desire but he that does the will of God remains forever.” Do you see the contrast?
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,09:49) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,09:42) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,09:37) Quote so David and Con want to do the same and hinder the evangelistic efforts of those who seize the opportunities that halloween presents. Thinker do you ever get tired of misleading people? More JW's will be “evangalizing” on that day than any other group I imagine.
So what is your fuss all about? I know, you are giving people the truth and WJ and I are not. And a piece of candy is necessarily a pagan practice.thinker
Thinker, I was just pointing out that this is not about hindering the spreading of the good news. You wrongly accuse me of attempting to do that. This thread is about halloween. He can hand out tracts to people on any day. Why does he make a special day of it on halloween? Did he choose that day, or did the pagans a long time ago?
David,
Okay. But you have been suggesting that our method is pagan because we will give a piece of candy with a gospel tract. If we give it in Christ's name it is sanctified. “To the pure ALL THINGS are pure.”thinker
Quote The origins of Halloween were not about devil worship, they were about the walls of this world and the “otherworld” being laid thin; spirits could wander and communicate with the living. There is nothing here that says anyone is worshiping the devil? I'm a bit confused. I think that last part was tacked-on by the Christian movement who became irritated with those pagans who would not convert. In other words, either you're in or you're out; either your worshiping the God of the bible, or your worshiping the devil. I don't know, but I still think there are other options out there…….. These folks weren't worshiping anything. Mandy, how did you finally come to this conclusion, about the darker side of halloween. Before you had said there were different stories.
B. Samhain/Halloween: An Ancient Pagan Celebration
1.Samhain celebrated the Celtic New Year and marked the transition from the Celts’ summer goddess to the horned god of the winter solstice.
2.A festival of the dead-the Celts believed that the spirits of the dead and other spirit-beings (demons) were participants in their Samhain (Halloween) celebrations.
3. Druids-priests of the Celtic tribes who celebrated Halloween. According to ancient Christian missionaries, human sacrifices were part of their worship.
4. Pagan origin of familiar Halloween practices
a. Trick-or-treat-families would put out food for the ghosts and demons so they would not harm them.b. Jack-o’-lanterns-started out as carved images of spirit-beings. Originally, a light was put into a turnip or potato which had an ugly face carved into it. One purpose of the jack-o’-lanterns was probably to frighten the spirits who were thought to invade the earth on Halloween night into going back to the world of the dead.
c. Bonfires-a look at the dictionary will reveal that the origin of this work is “bone-fire”-referring to large fires containing bones. Why bonfires? To help the sun “survive” the winter; to frighten off evil spirits; used for animals, and possibly human sacrifices.
d. Bobbing for apples-began as a technique of divination. In some areas, this tradition continues.
e. Bizarre costumes-The Celts hid themselves in ghoulish disguises at Halloween so that wandering spirits would mistake them for one of their own and pass by without incident. Masked villagers representing the souls of the dead also attempted to trick the spirits by forming a Parade and leading them to the town limits.
f. Skeletons, skulls, and corpses-these naturally belong to Halloween as a festival celebrating death.
g. Bats and owls-have been associated with Halloween since ancient times; the pagan Celts believed owls were able to communicate with the dead.
h. Goblins, demons, ghosts, ghouls-these were thought by the ancient Celtic pagans to have special freedom to travel about among the living at Halloween.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/4380/halloween.html(I don't agree with everything the above says, but most of it.)
Quote David,
Okay. But you have been suggesting that our method is pagan because we will give a piece of candy with a gospel tract. If we give it in Christ's name it is sanctified. “To the pure ALL THINGS are pure.”–thinker.
Quote Halloween has never been hallowed from my lips. I have spoken about it only as an opportunity to evangelize. WJ has never hallowed it either. –thinker, couple pages back.
You do know that hallowed and sanctified mean the same thing?
Quote PS: this thread has moved too quickly for me to keep up with it. –mandy.
I know. I'm going to move on to something else soon.
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,09:53) Quote I have never heard an objection from the world about giving candy and tracts to children. I hear this objection only from self righteous “christians.” –thinker.
That's weird? The world doesn't mind halloween. Well that must mean it's ok. Thinker, I think you are too deep in the world to see straight. The world does not object to most everything. The Bible says: “The world is passing away and so is it's desire but he that does the will of God remains forever.” Do you see the contrast?
What!
You're putting words into my mouth. I said nothing about halloween being okay. I said I never seen the world question one's christianity for giving out a gospel tract and a piece of candy. The world would question my Christianity if I practised witchcraft which is clearly condemned by God. And the world would question yours for your judgmentalism.Are you the best the JW's got?
thinker
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 21 2009,05:48) Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2009,20:54) All this talk of freedom seems very USA.
Hey now…..
This cracked me up. David, freedom is a CHRIST THING! What, exactly, do you think Christ died for?
I hate to tell you this bro, but we have the freedom to sin. We were given that freedom (by whom?).
We only choose not to out of love. Not out of rules and strict regulations. What would be the point then?
Love,
Mandy
Yes, you do have the freedom to Sin, Mandy.
But Christ did not die so that we would have the freedom to sin willfully. Did he?What I meant about the U.S., is they seem to almost worship freedom.
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,10:03) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,09:53) Quote I have never heard an objection from the world about giving candy and tracts to children. I hear this objection only from self righteous “christians.” –thinker.
That's weird? The world doesn't mind halloween. Well that must mean it's ok. Thinker, I think you are too deep in the world to see straight. The world does not object to most everything. The Bible says: “The world is passing away and so is it's desire but he that does the will of God remains forever.” Do you see the contrast?
What! You're putting words into my mouth. I said nothing about halloween being okay. I said I never seen the world question one's christianity for giving out a gospel tract and a piece of candy. The world would question my Christianity if I practised witchcraft which is clearly condemned by God. And the world would question yours for your judgmentalism.Are you the best the JW's got?
thinker
This thread is about halloween. If you're not defending it…., then are you against it?There is a difference between handing out tracts to someone and doing it BECAUSE it's part of your halloween celebration.
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:02) Quote David,
Okay. But you have been suggesting that our method is pagan because we will give a piece of candy with a gospel tract. If we give it in Christ's name it is sanctified. “To the pure ALL THINGS are pure.”–thinker.
Quote Halloween has never been hallowed from my lips. I have spoken about it only as an opportunity to evangelize. WJ has never hallowed it either. –thinker, couple pages back.
You do know that hallowed and sanctified mean the same thing?
You're getting desperate David. I said the giving of the piece of candy was sanctified if it is given in Christ's name. I NEVER hallowed halloween. You said you were going to move on to something else. Your lame remarks indicate that the time for you to do this is past due. Try the “satan is in the lake of fire” thread I started.thinker
Quote First, your assertion that WJ keeps bad associations just because he gives out tracts and candy on halloween is ridiculous.
For the 4th time, I never actually “asserted” that. WJ said Jesus spent time with sinners. I stated that “bad association spoils useful habits.” (the Bible)It's not even really association when you only say “hi” to someone. “here's your tract.” I never asserted that. I only commented on what WJ commented on. You seem to be having a conversation with yourself on this, and you've forgotten what it was based on. I requoted the original post a few pages back, when I realized you were doing this. Go check it out.
Hi,
I do not think we need to take a political stance against such practices as the JWs do as you cannot walk in this world without coming into contact with evil but I do think we need to look at our attitudes to what the world loves.Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:08) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,10:03) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,09:53) Quote I have never heard an objection from the world about giving candy and tracts to children. I hear this objection only from self righteous “christians.” –thinker.
That's weird? The world doesn't mind halloween. Well that must mean it's ok. Thinker, I think you are too deep in the world to see straight. The world does not object to most everything. The Bible says: “The world is passing away and so is it's desire but he that does the will of God remains forever.” Do you see the contrast?
What! You're putting words into my mouth. I said nothing about halloween being okay. I said I never seen the world question one's christianity for giving out a gospel tract and a piece of candy. The world would question my Christianity if I practised witchcraft which is clearly condemned by God. And the world would question yours for your judgmentalism.Are you the best the JW's got?
thinker
This thread is about halloween. If you're not defending it…., then are you against it?There is a difference between handing out tracts to someone and doing it BECAUSE it's part of your halloween celebration.
David,
Read this whole thread again from start to finish. I have answered all this already. I AM DEFENDING CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. Technically this thread is about halloween. I think through the legalist implications and discern the attack on Christian liberty.This thread is against Christian liberty. Why else do you think that some have said that we cannot eat the meats we want?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,10:08) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:02) Quote David,
Okay. But you have been suggesting that our method is pagan because we will give a piece of candy with a gospel tract. If we give it in Christ's name it is sanctified. “To the pure ALL THINGS are pure.”–thinker.
Quote Halloween has never been hallowed from my lips. I have spoken about it only as an opportunity to evangelize. WJ has never hallowed it either. –thinker, couple pages back.
You do know that hallowed and sanctified mean the same thing?
You're getting desperate David. I said the giving of the piece of candy was sanctified if it is given in Christ's name. I NEVER hallowed halloween. You said you were going to move on to something else. Your lame remarks indicate that the time for you to do this is past due. Try the “satan is in the lake of fire” thread I started.thinker
You do know this thread is about Halloween, don't you?If you are not defending halloween, then what are you defending?
Why would giving out a piece of candy on Oct 31 have to be “sanctified” as you say?
Quote I AM DEFENDING CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. Technically this thread is about halloween. I think through the legalist implications and discern the attack on Christian liberty. –thinker.
What do you think of halloween?
Quote Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2009,04:10)
No, WJ, for me, Oct 31st is quite similar to Oct 30th. It's very similar to Oct 29th. It's astoundingly similar to Nov 15th, or Dec 18th.Great, then why are you not free to do on Oct 31st what you may do on Oct 30th or Oct 10th or Jan 28th?
Because my freedom isn't as important as stumbling someone else. Other people are more important than my freedom. I gladly give up my freedom in this respect, so that I don't hurt someone else's conscience.
Your conscience or the conscience of those who believe you are a Christian. Which is more important?
WJ, I ask you this again. Which is more important. Your freedom. Or, your brother?
david
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:15) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,10:08) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:02) Quote David,
Okay. But you have been suggesting that our method is pagan because we will give a piece of candy with a gospel tract. If we give it in Christ's name it is sanctified. “To the pure ALL THINGS are pure.”–thinker.
Quote Halloween has never been hallowed from my lips. I have spoken about it only as an opportunity to evangelize. WJ has never hallowed it either. –thinker, couple pages back.
You do know that hallowed and sanctified mean the same thing?
You're getting desperate David. I said the giving of the piece of candy was sanctified if it is given in Christ's name. I NEVER hallowed halloween. You said you were going to move on to something else. Your lame remarks indicate that the time for you to do this is past due. Try the “satan is in the lake of fire” thread I started.thinker
You do know this thread is about Halloween, don't you?If you are not defending halloween, then what are you defending?
Why would giving out a piece of candy on Oct 31 have to be “sanctified” as you say?
David,
I posted my reply just before you. I duplicate it below:“David,
Read this whole thread again from start to finish. I have answered all this already. I AM DEFENDING CHRISTIAN LIBERTY. Technically this thread is about halloween. I think through the legalist implications and discern the attack on Christian liberty.This thread is against Christian liberty. Why else do you think that some have said that we cannot eat the meats we want?”
thinker
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,09:49) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,09:42) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,09:37) Quote so David and Con want to do the same and hinder the evangelistic efforts of those who seize the opportunities that halloween presents. Thinker do you ever get tired of misleading people? More JW's will be “evangalizing” on that day than any other group I imagine.
So what is your fuss all about? I know, you are giving people the truth and WJ and I are not. And a piece of candy is necessarily a pagan practice.thinker
Thinker, I was just pointing out that this is not about hindering the spreading of the good news. You wrongly accuse me of attempting to do that. This thread is about halloween. He can hand out tracts to people on any day. Why does he make a special day of it on halloween? Did he choose that day, or did the pagans a long time ago?
Handing out tracts on Halloween is just taking advantage of the number of people he will be in contact with….sounds smart to me! I've heard of some folks handing out tracts at a county fair for the same reason. Like Keith has shared….any day is the Lord's day to him.You seem to judge his works on Oct. 31st, but are you aware how he spreads the gospels all the other days? Has anyone asked Keith if he hands out tracts any other days? I bet he does! This brother knows how to live and talk the gospel.
Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,10:21) Your conscience or the conscience of those who believe you are a Christian. Which is more important? WJ, I ask you this again. Which is more important. Your freedom. Or, your brother?
david
I think this notion can get distorted real fast. I once had a wife pull me aside at church and tell me that she thought the way I dressed caused her husband to stumble? Really? I sought the counsel of my senior pastor and my youth pastor – they both agreed that my dress was always appropriate and that this “brother” had wandering eyes!!As much as it is possible……try to look after your brother and his weak needs. But really sometimes it's out of your hands.
Both Paul and Jesus kept company that would make a new believer stumble, in my opinion.
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