Halloween is coming up

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2009,08:12)

Hi TT, Do the traditions of men deserve such devoted attention from God's servants?

Giving a cup of water (or a piece of candy) in Christ's name originated from who?

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
So halloween is hallowed by such verses?

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 20 2009,15:44)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2009,14:34) Why couldn't my cousin just have a corn maze, a farm tour and presentation of God's role in it, pumpkin patch (not to promote jack-o-lanterns but fall decor and pies/bread, etc) hay ride and a petting zoo.  Why does there have to be a haunted barn, cobwebs all over, eyeballs and mummies in the gift shop, etc.? Ya know? Love, Kathi Hi Kathi Im confused by your statement. On one hand you are saying that the church should do nothing on the day (therefore conceding the day belongs to Haloween IMO), yet you are saying that your cousin should have an alternative.   We do not celebrate Haloween and its ghost and gobblins, we choose an alternative for the kids. How is that sin? How is that wrong? Don't we choose alternatives to the worlds practices all the time. Like using the internet or the TV? Blessings WJ

Keith,
I do believe that my messages often get lost in your interpretation. My cousin can have a fall, many day event, and it be good and God honoring and even open on Oct. 31st. His event isn't just on Oct. 31st. like the church festivals. Don't compare them. I just don't think that he has to have the deadly and evil overtones during his event.

As per church's fall festivals, they tend to be on the same day as the trick or treaters event. I think that the church should not have an alternative to the trick or treaters event. I think that when Christians join in the dressing up in costumes and going after candy instead of merely welcoming neighbors to their door who do, then they are giving a stamp of approval to halloween. If Christians merely welcomed people that came to their door on that night as well as every night, we, as believers would be a light set apart from darkness. When we encourage joining in with the dressing up and the hoarding of candy, we blend in to the pagan practices.

I did not say for the church to do nothing on the halloween night so as to set it aside for those who want to participate and therefore conceding the day belongs to halloween. I did mean that the church should not treat halloween as a special day for them to also have an event.

You see, my family was just having family night with a good wholesome family video to help my kids not be so distracted by “fun” on halloween because we felt it better to not celebrate halloween. Then, the church that we were going to had an event that encouraged dressing up in non-evil costumes and the hoarding of candy as prizes while at the same time presenting the gospel and none of that is bad except that it made it real easy to let my kids go asking for candy in the neighborhood when we got back home-they were already dressed up and the pastor down the street was giving out candy too. Eventually, my DAUGHTER wore her angel costume at church and take it off only to reveal Batman underneath for the neighbors. I am not saying that Batman is evil btw. My daughter is a bit of a tomboy with 4 brothers Anyway, my point is that the church softened the whole idea to celebrate halloween like everybody else did, imo. By the church throwing a big party for halloween, albeit in a somewhat different way, hinders those who do not want to celebrate halloween. I think that it would be better for the night to not be celebrated by anyone as a special event but we can't place our convictions others especially on the unbeliever's. I do think that we can welcome unbelieving door knockers to our home with the spirit of love and not as condemnation.

So, here is an idea for a church…have a skit during the fall season before the end of October, where they stage two different front porches. One decorated in the typical halloween fashion, i.e. jack-o-lanterns, cobwebs, spiders, gravestones, screaming things, etc. and another front porch decorated for fall with baskets of mums, corn stalks with ribbons, uncarved pumpkins and gourds etc. Then, in the skit have “non-believing” neighbors dressed up as witches or evil characters that come to each of those porches. Both porches will welcome the neighbors but one porch will stand out as more of a light for those neighbors who are looking for Christ. As I have posted before, there might be a sign on the front porch next to a basket of candy that says “We don't celebrate halloween but help yourselves to the candy and if you would like to knock on our door, we would love to meet you.” Do you understand, Keith. This is just an idea of how a church can offer an alternative that doesn't make it easy to just go home from church to run around the neighborhood because they are already dressed up in a costume. When we are away at church, we can't open the door to the neighbors and offer them a different spirit than the rest of the neighborhood.

So when we choose alternatives…sometimes those alternatives make it easy to lead into the wordly ways and sometimes we just need to not celebrate at all.

And BTW, some should throw away their TV or take out their modem from their computers while others do not need to.

Kathi

[Not3in1]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,08:37)

When we encourage joining in with the dressing up and the hoarding of candy, we blend in to the pagan practices.

Just out of curiosity Kathi, do you put up a Christmas tree? Do you have any of the Easter trappings (bunnies, eggs) around Easter?

Of course you know where I'm going with this…..

It's all or nothing, right? Is lukewarm an option? If you are willing to say that dressing up and giving candy blends into the pagan practices, you have to be willing to give up the other too for they also are pagen'ish. This is a hard road to travel if you ask me. I'm struggling big time!

Love,
Mandy

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 20 2009,15:52)

Hi LU, The birthday date is incorrect and for most the arrival of the Son signs their death warrant as they ignore him and his message of salvation. Those who are in Christ have useful things to do rather than joining with the world in an excuse to party surely? Why would they join with the worship of a man, a wonderful man who served and revealed God, when they are meant to be joined in him? Those who do the will of the Father are of His family but these celebrations are of man.

Nick,
The spirit of Christmas can have a positive affect on non-believers as well as a negative affect. Why would you just want to focus on the negative and ignore the positive. We are to think about how to take advantage of Christmas and the focus that is put on Christ at that time and lead others to Him. The season gives us a great opportunity for that.

Man can bring good into the world Nick and God often inspires man to do so. Just because man declared that Christ's birth can be celebrated on Dec. 25 does not make it bad. It can give us opportunity to celebrate as an organized body…corporately and therefore bring a lot of attention to the fact of God sending us His Son. I would suggest that without the annual celebration of Christmas and Easter, a lot more people would not be aware of Christ.
LU
I gotta run…it's been fun churning it up with ya'll!

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
So the church of the world celebrates the festivals of the world with the worldly?
Are we not of the body of Christ?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi Kathi

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2009,16:37)

And BTW, some should throw away their TV or take out their modem from their computers while others do not need to.

This is what we have been trying to say!

Thanks for your opinion though!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Not BAD but irrelevant to following Jesus?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 20 2009,16:47)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,08:37) When we encourage joining in with the dressing up and the hoarding of candy, we blend in to the pagan practices. Just out of curiosity Kathi, do you put up a Christmas tree?  Do you have any of the Easter trappings (bunnies, eggs) around Easter? Of course you know where I'm going with this….. It's all or nothing, right?  Is lukewarm an option?  If you are willing to say that dressing up and giving candy blends into the pagan practices, you have to be willing to give up the other too for they also are pagen'ish.    This is a hard road to travel if you ask me.  I'm struggling big time! Love, Mandy

Mandy

Of course you are exactly right!

Christmas and Easter have their origins in pagan practices also.

Its just Haloween, that is so much more evil and sinful.

They speak of “RIP”, death and darkness.

We speak of the resurection and life and light.

They speak of demons and devils, we speak of Jesus and Angels.

They speak of seances and calling on the dead.

We speak of Prayer and calling on God.

The question is Haloween any more sinful or pagan than Christmas or Easter?

It seems to me a “little leaven, leavens the whole lump”!

For the believer is a little sin any different than a lot of sin?

Is a little paganism different than a lot of paganism?

I believe I am free and that to me what we do is pure!

WJ

[Lightenup]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 20 2009,16:47)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 21 2009,08:37) When we encourage joining in with the dressing up and the hoarding of candy, we blend in to the pagan practices. Just out of curiosity Kathi, do you put up a Christmas tree?  Do you have any of the Easter trappings (bunnies, eggs) around Easter? Of course you know where I'm going with this….. It's all or nothing, right?  Is lukewarm an option?  If you are willing to say that dressing up and giving candy blends into the pagan practices, you have to be willing to give up the other too for they also are pagen'ish.    This is a hard road to travel if you ask me.  I'm struggling big time! Love, Mandy

Mandy,
I'm needing to go but I will give you a quick answer. I have freedom to have my own traditions and I do not consider a decorated tree full of family memories as evil but more or an object to illustrate God's faithfulness as He has given us so many wonderful memories. I have used the tree as a lead in to the story of “The Three Trees.” An Easter egg hunt has been enjoyed by my kids and then we use what is in some of the plastic eggs as props to tell the Easter story, i.e. a thorn, a nail, a piece of cloth, a cup, etc.

I haven't seen the halloween story as worthwhile to read to my kids, ever. I do not have one story book on the benefit of halloween to my kids faith. The Easter and Christmas story definitely has been worth reading to my kids. I do not see halloween and Christmas and Easter as comparable but many here are comparing them. Only two of them celebrates a Christian event, not all three. K

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Does purity and freedom include teaching what Jesus did not teach-trinity?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2009,16:37)

I do believe that my messages often get lost in your interpretation.  My cousin can have a fall, many day event, and it be good and God honoring and even open on Oct. 31st.  His event isn't just on Oct. 31st.

Its your own interpretation I am having a problem with.

Isn't his fall event focused around Halloween?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Do those in Christ celebrate his birth and death?
They are one with him and he has things for us to do.

Let the dead bury the dead

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2009,08:25)

Hi TT, So halloween is hallowed by such verses?

Halloween has never been hallowed from my lips. I have spoken about it only as an opportunity to evangelize. WJ has never hallowed it either.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Is it relevant to the servants of God?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Kathi

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 20 2009,17:08)

Only two of them celebrates a Christian event, not all three. K

Not true! The world does not celebrate Jesus birth! The world does not celebrate Jesus resurection!

But you do and your church does.

We use Oct 31st as a day for the children learning about the scriptures, the resurection, prayer, Bible characters Etc.

Is there a difference?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
All are of the world.
Is your church of the world?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2009,09:02)

Hi LU, Not BAD but irrelevant to following Jesus?

Nick,
To follow Jesus is to give light to the world. We are never to put our light under a bushel. But you withhold light on a “pagan” day. Therefore it is you who is irrelevant.

You talk service Nick. But that's all it is. Talk

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
So we should support the worldly celebrations because they give us opportunities to preach the gospel?

Sounds noble but is it service?

[942767]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 21 2009,05:56)

Hi Kathi, No, I think you are a realist.  The thing is, sometimes being a Christian and being a realist don't mesh. For instance, because Halloween is a so-called wicked holiday after pagan roots (and so is Easter and Christmas) you cannot be lukewarm.  Either they are all bad by the same token, or not.  I confess, this is my inner-struggle. Love, Mandy

Hi Mandy:

First of all, I only said that I do not celebrate Halloween. What you do with this holiday is up to you, but there is a difference between this holiday and Christmas and Easter.

Christmas and Easter are about the birth and the resurrection of Jesus our Lord. Of course, the world has made a way to commercialize these holidays with Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny.

I celebrate the birth and the resurrection of my Lord every day, but these holidays are a good way to bring the family together. Some of the family may not know the true meaning of Christmas and Easter, and it is an opportunity to share.

Anyway, I have only told you what I do. I am not the judge.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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