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Quote Can you show scripture where satan owns any days? –WJ
I want to know who it is that keeps asserting that Satan owns a day? I don't think anyone is actually asserting this. It is “halloween” that we are arguing against. Really, halloween is not a day event anyway.
It takes place at night, in darkness.Hey, here's a scripture that just sprung to mind:
…the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”
When people want to do bad things, they tend to do this in darkness, at night. Anyway, off subject and it doesn't really mean anything.
Who keeps saying that Satan owns Oct 31?
It is not “a day” itself that anyone is arguing against. It is what some choose to do on that day. If someone chooses to celebrate paganism with the world, that is his choice. If someone decides to hand Bible tracts out with candy as though this were the “treat” they were asking for, that is his choice. What you DO WITH THE DAY is what we are all talking about.
You are trying to create some false argument about the day itself. It is what you do with each day.
Quote All I can say is I am at liberty in Christ to use my time on Oct 31st as a time for family, friends and a Church gathering to do what I believe is right. –WJ
WJ, I do that too. I do that with every day. I've asked this before and maybe you've answer me….what exactly makes that day different for you than any other day? What specifically do you do? I may be all wrong about you.
Quote Sorry, I don’t buy the fact that I am participating in their sins, no more than I am participating in the sins of Pornography by using the internet or the TV. IMO “religious” men have to often turned the world off by their snobby, holier than thou attitudes.
Jesus provided wine at a wedding feast where he knew men were more than likely getting plastered! Was Jesus partaking of their sin? Of course he wasn’t. It was customary to serve wine at a wedding, so nothing was wrong with Jesus creating the wine. What men did with it afterward was their own responsibility.
WJ, this is a fairly persuasive argument.
But I think the mistake is this:
The internet/TV can be used for good or bad. If pagans invented the internet/TV for their religious observance that God Almighty hated, then things would be different.Similarly, the Bible says drinking a little wine is good. Wine can be good or bad depending on usage.
If Someone invented a wine that they called “Satanic wine” would Jesus produce this specific wine at the wedding? No.Quote WJ – I can see some merit in the way you deal with this, trying to turn something bad into something good (reminded me of that passage in Genesis 50 where Joseph said to his brother “you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good….”). –Is 1:18
WJ, I agree. I truly believe you are trying to do good and you believe you are. You should be commended for this. Then, after that commendation, we should have attacked your ideas.
Quote The problem I have with this approach is because it has a semblance to standard practice for Halloween celebration it has the effect of indirectly condoning the festival to the nonchristians who are observing you. Do you see my point? –Is 1:18
Is 1:18, I totally see your point. If someone came to WJ's home and he gave them their treat, would they think that WJ was celebrating halloween?
Quote David does not deny the resurrection. –CON
Then why would Thinker continually say that I do, despite me telling him I don't deny the resurrection. Jesus certainly was “put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 18 2009,11:11) Constitutionalist said: Quote Holloween does not edify the Lord. And judging others does?
thinker
Thinker, is lying wrong?
Thinker, is continually accusing someone of judging someone else not also … judging?Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 18 2009,10:41) David asked WJ: Quote Would any Christians stumble over your celebrating halloween?
Make sure you are clear as to what it means to “stumble.” According to Paul it meant to cause a brother to act contrary to his conscience. You would not act contrary to your conscience if you saw me passing out candy.You are just trying to bind me under your rules and I am not obligated to bow my knee to you.
thinker
Thinker, I'm curious which verse you are speaking of?Does not to “stumble” mean to …. stumble, to fall?
Quote (david @ Oct. 19 2009,20:06) Quote Can you show scripture where satan owns any days? –WJ
I want to know who it is that keeps asserting that Satan owns a day? I don't think anyone is actually asserting this. It is “halloween” that we are arguing against. Really, halloween is not a day event anyway.
It takes place at night, in darkness.Hey, here's a scripture that just sprung to mind:
…the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”
When people want to do bad things, they tend to do this in darkness, at night. Anyway, off subject and it doesn't really mean anything.
Who keeps saying that Satan owns Oct 31?
It is not “a day” itself that anyone is arguing against. It is what some choose to do on that day. If someone chooses to celebrate paganism with the world, that is his choice. If someone decides to hand Bible tracts out with candy as though this were the “treat” they were asking for, that is his choice. What you DO WITH THE DAY is what we are all talking about.
You are trying to create some false argument about the day itself. It is what you do with each day.
David! It is not just at night. The children in School dress up all day, and so do some Adults. It has become a day where all do this. It is so maddening to me. And if you don't do it with your Children they feel left out. We still have a Grandson who is 8 years old. And when our children were little, they had a Halloween Party in School. Even Offices-es do so.
Making evil good, that is what I have so against that day, people make is so.
IreneQuote (thethinker @ Oct. 18 2009,10:48) David said: Quote If you become friends with the world, you become “enemies of God.” To put it simply the “world” in its historical context constituted those who stood in the way of new covenant progress. In other words, you and Con.
thinker
So, I and CON are the world Jesus was speaking about?Jesus said his followers would be “no part of the world.”
If you take part in the world's holidays, does that make you more a part of the world or less a part of the world?
In this particular instance, (halloween) it is definitely you who are more a part of the world.
The world tends to hate people who are different.
The world has no reason to hate you, but it hates me, because I bear witness concerning it that its works are wicked.
(John 7:7)Quote Like I have already said… Why dont you give me a scripture that says God hates “Oct 31st and Gods people coming together and dressing their kids like Bible Charactors and giving them candy and playing games.
–WJ
1. WJ, do you think there are any scriptures that indicate that God hates false worship?
2. WJ, do you think there are any scriptures that indicate that we should avoid being contaminated by false worship?Quote The world uses the Internet for evil, I use the internet for Good. Well, you think you do. (Teaching the false trinity doctrine?) But assuming you actually did, the internet was not created for the specific purpose of rendering worship to or appeasing false gods.
Quote “Make this your decision, not to put before a brother a stumbling block or a cause for tripping.” “It is well not to eat flesh or to drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.”–Rom 14 WJ, please answer:
Would any Christians stumble over your celebrating halloween?WJ?
Quote (david @ Oct. 18 2009,09:01) Quote Paul said it was okay for us to eat meat in an idol's temple as long as it did not offend our brother (1 Cor. 8:10). The problem here is that the feet of you and Con and others are too “holy” to enter a pagan temple. And your hands are too “holy” to give a child a piece of candy. –(bold added) thinker.
So then, THINKER, by your own words, what must you do? Is this what bothers you? Is it that you know this adoption/imitation of paganism bothers and stumbles like 80% of those who claim to be Christian? By your own words, what must you do?
Thinker, by your own words….Quote (georg @ Oct. 19 2009,20:33) Quote (david @ Oct. 19 2009,20:06) Quote Can you show scripture where satan owns any days? –WJ
I want to know who it is that keeps asserting that Satan owns a day? I don't think anyone is actually asserting this. It is “halloween” that we are arguing against. Really, halloween is not a day event anyway.
It takes place at night, in darkness.Hey, here's a scripture that just sprung to mind:
…the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”
When people want to do bad things, they tend to do this in darkness, at night. Anyway, off subject and it doesn't really mean anything.
Who keeps saying that Satan owns Oct 31?
It is not “a day” itself that anyone is arguing against. It is what some choose to do on that day. If someone chooses to celebrate paganism with the world, that is his choice. If someone decides to hand Bible tracts out with candy as though this were the “treat” they were asking for, that is his choice. What you DO WITH THE DAY is what we are all talking about.
You are trying to create some false argument about the day itself. It is what you do with each day.
David! It is not just at night. The children in School dress up all day, and so do some Adults. It has become a day where all do this. It is so maddening to me. And if you don't do it with your Children they feel left out. We still have a Grandson who is 8 years old. And when our children were little, they had a Halloween Party in School. Even Offices-es do so.
Making evil good, that is what I have so against that day, people make is so.
Irene
Georg. By saying it is the “day” itself, WJ and others can just keep saying that every day belongs to God. Of course, when you say the “day” is bad, that is not what you mean. But they take that and twist it.So, why don't you just say that the practices on that day are bad? It is not the day itself, but what people do on that day.
Quote (david @ Oct. 19 2009,19:33) Is 1:18 has stated: Yes, but spending time with publicans, sinners, and tax collectors doesnt compromise your spiritual wellbeing. Would you attend a seance? That's a more legitimate example.
I wonder what people would say to this? Or would they just ignore it?
Would they say:
Yes, I would bring Christianity to this seance and partake of this seance in my own way.
Would they say:
God owns everything in the earth including this table that the seance is being held at, so why let them make this table bad; I will overcome the bad with good.
Would they say:
But seances are fun. They're shown in movies. And sometimes theirs candy….(OK, I made the candy part up.)
Is 1:18 also said:
I've been tring to put my finger on what exactly it is that makes me so uncomfortable with christians participating in halloween. I think it's the syncretism that invariably results, meshing something worldly with something divine and pure. It never works Brother. We are called to be set apart from the world.
Come now! Jesus and the apostles were all about mixing the good with the bad. Would they let paganism overtake them? No, they'd jump right in with the pagans and mimic their unholy behavior!He also asked this:
I think the more pertinent analogy is – did Yeshua participate in the equivalent pagan rituals or festivals of His day?
Obviously he did! He loved pagan rituals. Anything having the least to do with mimicking or adopting practices that are connected to false gods….he was all over that stuff!(Thinker, I'm being sarcastic here.)
Quote Thank you for your non answer! Everyday is the Lords day. At least it is in my world!
–WJ
Then if it is the Lord's day, where is the honor due him? Should you not imitate the Lord if it is the Lord's day? Why imitate the world if it is the Lord's day? The 2 are directly opposed. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. Jesus followers are “no part of the world.”
I am not justifying WJ as I do not know his heart.But I have no problem entering a place where a seance is taking place. Sure I wouldn't partake, but there must be some truth to the words “greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world”.
Of course, if I decided to talk to some people at the seance, then I don't see that as me partaking.
If I conducted the seance or held the glass, or partook in another similar way, then yes I would be partaking.
Remember that we can be in the world and not of it. So I can be in the seance hall and yet not partake of the seance. I could use my time to make some friends and share the gospel for example. I could even use the seance as a way to preach the gospel by talking about the spiritual realm and what happens when we die etc.
Of course when we do something and it weakens a brother then that is a good reason to abstain. But if not, then we don't abstain because the Devil's power can overcome the power of God.
If I gave something to someone at Halloween, then I could still do it in the service of God. Does it not depend on the heart?
Did Jesus say “a glass of water given in my name, except on Halloween, shall not lose its reward”? If he did, then he would have admitted that the Devil has some power.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 19 2009,18:32) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 19 2009,01:01) Paul,
I read your post again and I have a question for you. David said that WJ is keeping a “bad association” because he gives out candy on halloween. You seem to agree with David.
I would say the bad association is with the event itself.Quote Paul was referring to those who deny the resurrection when he was referring to “bad associations.” So here is my question: Who is the real threat? Is it WJ who gives out candy? Or is David the real threat to our faith because he denies the resurrection?
I really don't know why this question is being directed at me. Are you trying to set up an argument between me and David or me and WJ? Seems to me that you are. David already knows I am not enamored with watchtower theology. Halloween maybe the only doctrine we see eye to eye on. WJ already knows my stance on Halloween. Both are wrong in my view. Which registers worst? I have no idea.Quote I wonder why you chastised WJ and I but said nothing to David. Please reply.
huh? Am I obliged to comment on everything that I disagree with? I'd never get off the computer chair. I've said plenty to David in the past, we have a long history of butting heads.Thinker what's with this post? I just don't get where you are coming from.
Paul,
The apostle Paul said that he could eat meat offered to idols while feasting in a pagan temple. So David indicts Paul with WJ. But Paul indicts David and calls him the “bad association” among us because he denies the resurrection which is the WEIGHTIER MATTER.If the apostle Paul could feast in a pagan temple without engaging in occult practises then why do you take issue with what WJ does?
thinker
Quote (david @ Oct. 19 2009,20:58) Quote (georg @ Oct. 19 2009,20:33) Quote (david @ Oct. 19 2009,20:06) Quote Can you show scripture where satan owns any days? –WJ
I want to know who it is that keeps asserting that Satan owns a day? I don't think anyone is actually asserting this. It is “halloween” that we are arguing against. Really, halloween is not a day event anyway.
It takes place at night, in darkness.Hey, here's a scripture that just sprung to mind:
…the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”
When people want to do bad things, they tend to do this in darkness, at night. Anyway, off subject and it doesn't really mean anything.
Who keeps saying that Satan owns Oct 31?
It is not “a day” itself that anyone is arguing against. It is what some choose to do on that day. If someone chooses to celebrate paganism with the world, that is his choice. If someone decides to hand Bible tracts out with candy as though this were the “treat” they were asking for, that is his choice. What you DO WITH THE DAY is what we are all talking about.
You are trying to create some false argument about the day itself. It is what you do with each day.
David! It is not just at night. The children in School dress up all day, and so do some Adults. It has become a day where all do this. It is so maddening to me. And if you don't do it with your Children they feel left out. We still have a Grandson who is 8 years old. And when our children were little, they had a Halloween Party in School. Even Offices-es do so.
Making evil good, that is what I have so against that day, people make is so.
Irene
Georg. By saying it is the “day” itself, WJ and others can just keep saying that every day belongs to God. Of course, when you say the “day” is bad, that is not what you mean. But they take that and twist it.So, why don't you just say that the practices on that day are bad? It is not the day itself, but what people do on that day.
Of course that is the practice, and not the day itself. Anybody that as a little common sense will know what am talking about. Whoever believes its right to go along with that practice will find anything in order to justify their doing so. Even when I have been pasting what History shows, it makes no difference to them.
Peace and Loe IreneIrene said:
Quote Making evil good, that is what I have so against that day, people make is so.
IreneIrene,
Did you pay attention to what you said? You said that you object to making something good. That's what Christians do. They make things good. God made evil good in reference to Joseph.What should bother you is that some people make good into evil.
thinker
Quote (david @ Oct. 19 2009,03:33) –WJ Then if it is the Lord's day, where is the honor due him? Should you not imitate the Lord if it is the Lord's day? Why imitate the world if it is the Lord's day? The 2 are directly opposed. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. Jesus followers are “no part of the world.”
You know nothing of my motives, heart or conscience do you David?You guys go ahead and do as you please on Oct 31st and judge me if you like. But I am at liberty to give candy to innocent children who come to my door who know nothing of séances or worshipping the devil!
WJ
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 19 2009,02:35) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 19 2009,04:38) thinker……..Then as lights of the world why involve yourself with there customs, I agree with Isa 1:18, where is the line at thinker, to what extent do you engage in these satanic rituals. Do we justify any behavior we chose to, by saying we are (FREE) to do What every we Decide we want to do, Where is the line at thinker. Halloween is totally a Evil Satanic Practice no matter how you color it thinker. As i said before you put any mask on a pig , but it's still a pig. IMO gene
Yes, where is the line? Is there a line?
Hi PaulIts more like “who should draw the line?”.
To me it is a matter of the heart and conscience.
WJ
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