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Aliving Stone You are lucky that you can afford to teach your own children, but not all people can do that and have to rely on the Public Schools. Since we were in the Catholic Church our children were taught in the Catholic Church. God called us when my Husband was 45 years old and I was 44. So our children were grown when we started not to keep X-mas etc. it tore our Family apart, but my Husband and I have always followed Gods calling, and He still is teaching us. We have to us Love when it comes to our children. Use common sense do not over do it with being to legalistic like the Scribes and Pharisee's were. After all we are under that COMMANDMENT THAT JESUS GAVE US. '” LOVE GOD WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
Question to consider
HOW DO YOU LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR IF YOU ISOLATE YOURSELF FROM THEM
We have been around have had some really nice trials were we say the Hand Of God leading us. We see how He has lead us from the very beginning. We were blessed and nothing material matters anymore. We will always be sinners, but Christ has told us to overcome. That is what I am STILL trying to do, it is not always easy, is it?Peace and Love Mrs.
David I am so sorry I just read your post again, and yes I did read that wrong. I was very tired last night, have trouble sleeping at nights. So I get up and go on the Website sometimes. Sorry……
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi david,
Mar 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.The temple is no more and even in its day the most sacred ark with its cherub's of gold was hidden from view except when it was being moved only the high priest was able to view it and then only once a year. Why was this? because your right these things which weren't created to be worshiped in themselves have a tendency to become a snare and thats what I am driving at.
I have been “snared” by many things in my life none of them were graven images as such, more like drugs tobacco ,cars and bikes, images of women etc I have been through phases when theses thing were the focus of my life
thank God he has freed me of these bondages. do you have children david?
the movies they put out with all the mechanise , cars the movie turning cars into people, bob the builder, thomas the tank engine , Would you allow this tripe in your home.I went to herbie the love bug when I was young and yeah it was just a nice story right, saw it a few times. but then I started to read car magazines and dream about them and so on. til I finally got one to do up after a long wait, I wasn't good with money, and spent a ton of money on it and about two years of work then just as I had it finally painted and on the road I pranged it twice. I took this as a sign. And I praise God for it.
My point is the enermy has a strategy a very effective one he starts when we are young leading our focus away from the lover of our souls and onto empty nothings. He lays the ground work then builds upon it here a little there a little.We believers must combat this with the truth but what is the truth about graven images. What value have they that you would argue their cause?
Living,
You are sharing a lot of truth here.
I agree that things can become idols. A good example is when something you really enjoy starts to take more of your time than you want it to. All of a sudden, you don't really enjoy the thing anymore, but you feel compulsion to entertain it/maintain it or whatever. I've had this experience in my life and I know what it feels like. I've also had the experience of the Father telling me that I had created an idol in my life! That was a sad moment let me tell you….. Anyway, I repented and there was forgiveness. But it's easy to fall into. It's something that I watch very closely in my life.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 17 2007,14:35) Aliving Stone You are lucky that you can afford to teach your own children, but not all people can do that and have to rely on the Public Schools. Since we were in the Catholic Church our children were taught in the Catholic Church. God called us when my Husband was 45 years old and I was 44. So our children were grown when we started not to keep X-mas etc. it tore our Family apart, but my Husband and I have always followed Gods calling, and He still is teaching us. We have to us Love when it comes to our children. Use common sense do not over do it with being to legalistic like the Scribes and Pharisee's were. After all we are under that COMMANDMENT THAT JESUS GAVE US. '” LOVE GOD WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
Question to consider
HOW DO YOU LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR IF YOU ISOLATE YOURSELF FROM THEM
We have been around have had some really nice trials were we say the Hand Of God leading us. We see how He has lead us from the very beginning. We were blessed and nothing material matters anymore. We will always be sinners, but Christ has told us to overcome. That is what I am STILL trying to do, it is not always easy, is it?Peace and Love Mrs.
IM4,
It sounds like a tough time and trial to go through however I am sure you will be richly rewarded for walking in faith and the light you have been given. You sound as though you are united with your husband which is good, bless you for that.Are we called to do as the romans do when in rome?
we can't shut ourselves away from the world, neither can we conform to it, we must not be afraid to live the life of christ.
We will be rejected if we follow the truth because He was rejected. Even by members of our own household as you have found out.
why is there so little persecution in this western world? because so few christians are prepared to “love not their lives unto death”. just the persence of the holy spirit is enough the set some off who have hardened their hearts.
we must be set apart in our to call other sinners out. If we join them in their sin is that loving them.
Only the living can save the dyingQuote (david @ Sep. 17 2007,13:53) Are you guys saying that if I'm a painter or an artist, I'm not allowed to make paintings or sculptures or representations of anything?
It sounds as if micheals has gone whole hog and chucked out he pictures as well. I dont have a problem as long as long as the fruit of it is good god will bless it . But I still have a lot of pictures because my wife is partial to them and as far as I can tell they are in a flat plane not graven. I dont go to movies hardly at all and don't have a tv most of the art and sculture I have seen does not glorify God so I don't mind if artists go broke and have to change career.Quote We believers must combat this with the truth but what is the truth about graven images. What value have they that you would argue their cause? ALS
ALS, Idols have no value.
But my question is:
Does the prohibition against making carved images mean that it is wrong to make representations of objects for artistic purposes?
I believe the answer is “no.”
The prohibition here was against making images for worship—against ‘bowing down to idols and serving them.’ The Scriptures do not forbid carving sculptures or making paintings of objects for artistic purposes.—1 Kings 7:18, 25.I agree that ANYTHING can become a snare. We need to use money. Yet, money can become a snare. Sexual relations are ok when married. Eating food is ok. Drinking alcohol in moderation is ok. But any of these things can become snares if taken to excess.
JAMES 1:14-15
“But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.”Drawing a picture of someone is fine. Drawing a picture of someone you idolize is a different story.
Or, if you found yourself loving something so much that it is all you think about, and you find yourself wanting to make images of it and look at it all the time.Those verses about making images of anything are always following by the warning not to bow down to those things.
david
Quote (ALivingStone @ Sep. 18 2007,21:47) Quote (david @ Sep. 17 2007,13:53) Are you guys saying that if I'm a painter or an artist, I'm not allowed to make paintings or sculptures or representations of anything?
It sounds as if micheals has gone whole hog and chucked out he pictures as well. I dont have a problem as long as long as the fruit of it is good god will bless it . But I still have a lot of pictures because my wife is partial to them and as far as I can tell they are in a flat plane not graven. I dont go to movies hardly at all and don't have a tv most of the art and sculture I have seen does not glorify God so I don't mind if artists go broke and have to change career.
this flat plain we speak of,to me is still graven pictures from light,in the printing industry everything is graven,the printing plates are first engraved with laser then this image is transfered onto a substrait as paper or any other object,when we take a picture the film is actualy ingraved by the light when the shuter opens for that split second,is a picture real can it speak ,does it move,does it breath,hmmm if we look at a picture of ourself 10 years ago,is that us,or just a dead image of what we might have looked like for that instant,this is all vanity,this is not how God sees us,if we could all see how he sees us we would do away with these vanitys and dead things, for God is not the God of the dead but the liveing.we also homeschool our 4 children,under the religious freedom act,give to God what is Gods,our children are not wards of the state.for this is our responsibility from the father,to train those he gives us up in his ways. and we have no problem enteracting with others, and loveing our brothers as our selves. for God is love,thru showing this love God gave us, maybe one day even the blind will see,and the deaf will hear,the vail will be lifted,for Gods word will not go out void.may the TRUTH lead you into all TRUTH.Michaels,
Our currency is also a graven image on paper. Do you use cash Micheals? I'm just curious how far you are willing to take your beliefs. Thanks.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,02:18) Michaels, Our currency is also a graven image on paper. Do you use cash Micheals? I'm just curious how far you are willing to take your beliefs. Thanks.
this is very true,its a beast system,we cant buy or sell without this mark,yet jesus paid taxes with coins also graven with images, so is currency ok
Quote (michaels @ Sep. 19 2007,05:01) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,02:18) Michaels, Our currency is also a graven image on paper. Do you use cash Micheals? I'm just curious how far you are willing to take your beliefs. Thanks.
this is very true,its a beast system,we cant buy or sell without this mark,yet jesus paid taxes with coins also graven with images, so is currency ok
Jesus also read from scrolls and participated in the Temple worship which was adorned in various ways. My point was that you may take down every bit of art in your home, you may even spray-paint your mirrors, but you cannot obey to every letter of the law! You cannot! Unless you want to take the food out of your children's mouth as well. For if you do not use currency, I assume you cannot eat (unless you are a farmer and supply all your needs).Things can go too far.
Quote (david @ Sep. 18 2007,14:56) But my question is: Does the prohibition against making carved images mean that it is wrong to make representations of objects for artistic purposes?
david ,
Perhaps this will settle this if you allow me to paraphase,'DONT make graven images of any earthly thing LEST you be driven to worship them.'
There is alot of worship and praise and idolization of both artistic creations and the artist's who created them.
However its not about prohabition its about conforming to the image of the son. the law makes a mockery of all our attempts to follow the letter. we always fall short. funny that!
i reckon that what ever this needful we should pursue but any thing else is just access baggage cluttering up your life but as far as graven images go they are more sinster because they're very existance in my opinion defy's the will of God.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,13:49) Quote (michaels @ Sep. 19 2007,05:01) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,02:18) Michaels, Our currency is also a graven image on paper. Do you use cash Micheals? I'm just curious how far you are willing to take your beliefs. Thanks.
this is very true,its a beast system,we cant buy or sell without this mark,yet jesus paid taxes with coins also graven with images, so is currency ok
Jesus also read from scrolls and participated in the Temple worship which was adorned in various ways. My point was that you may take down every bit of art in your home, you may even spray-paint your mirrors, but you cannot obey to every letter of the law! You cannot! Unless you want to take the food out of your children's mouth as well. For if you do not use currency, I assume you cannot eat (unless you are a farmer and supply all your needs).Things can go too far.
need no money where God is ,he shall supply, is his hand shortend that he cant drop food from heaven,no he can easily supply all of our needs!Quote (michaels @ Sep. 19 2007,14:23) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,13:49) Quote (michaels @ Sep. 19 2007,05:01) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,02:18) Michaels, Our currency is also a graven image on paper. Do you use cash Micheals? I'm just curious how far you are willing to take your beliefs. Thanks.
this is very true,its a beast system,we cant buy or sell without this mark,yet jesus paid taxes with coins also graven with images, so is currency ok
Jesus also read from scrolls and participated in the Temple worship which was adorned in various ways. My point was that you may take down every bit of art in your home, you may even spray-paint your mirrors, but you cannot obey to every letter of the law! You cannot! Unless you want to take the food out of your children's mouth as well. For if you do not use currency, I assume you cannot eat (unless you are a farmer and supply all your needs).Things can go too far.
need no money where God is ,he shall supply, is his hand shortend that he cant drop food from heaven,no he can easily supply all of our needs!
Are you saying YOU do not need money? Does God drop food from the sky for you and your family?Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 20 2007,02:25) Quote (michaels @ Sep. 19 2007,14:23) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,13:49) Quote (michaels @ Sep. 19 2007,05:01) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,02:18) Michaels, Our currency is also a graven image on paper. Do you use cash Micheals? I'm just curious how far you are willing to take your beliefs. Thanks.
this is very true,its a beast system,we cant buy or sell without this mark,yet jesus paid taxes with coins also graven with images, so is currency ok
Jesus also read from scrolls and participated in the Temple worship which was adorned in various ways. My point was that you may take down every bit of art in your home, you may even spray-paint your mirrors, but you cannot obey to every letter of the law! You cannot! Unless you want to take the food out of your children's mouth as well. For if you do not use currency, I assume you cannot eat (unless you are a farmer and supply all your needs).Things can go too far.
need no money where God is ,he shall supply, is his hand shortend that he cant drop food from heaven,no he can easily supply all of our needs!
Are you saying YOU do not need money? Does God drop food from the sky for you and your family?
money is just a vain want,and yes God supplys all our needs food clothing ,ect… without money, hmmm, nothing is imposible for him. yet he has also blessed us abundently with money? the question is for what purpose, for all that we have belongs to him. dont think food from the sky is beyond him ,expecialy in this end time, after all he loves his children. he showed us in this end day he would supply all our needs when he renewed the earth and all the desert turned green and blossomed then the animals came to the land, why do we try to make God small ,as if these things are beyond him? who is your God?Quote (michaels @ Sep. 22 2007,12:27) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 20 2007,02:25) Quote (michaels @ Sep. 19 2007,14:23) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,13:49) Quote (michaels @ Sep. 19 2007,05:01) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,02:18) Michaels, Our currency is also a graven image on paper. Do you use cash Micheals? I'm just curious how far you are willing to take your beliefs. Thanks.
this is very true,its a beast system,we cant buy or sell without this mark,yet jesus paid taxes with coins also graven with images, so is currency ok
Jesus also read from scrolls and participated in the Temple worship which was adorned in various ways. My point was that you may take down every bit of art in your home, you may even spray-paint your mirrors, but you cannot obey to every letter of the law! You cannot! Unless you want to take the food out of your children's mouth as well. For if you do not use currency, I assume you cannot eat (unless you are a farmer and supply all your needs).Things can go too far.
need no money where God is ,he shall supply, is his hand shortend that he cant drop food from heaven,no he can easily supply all of our needs!
Are you saying YOU do not need money? Does God drop food from the sky for you and your family?
money is just a vain want,and yes God supplys all our needs food clothing ,ect… without money, hmmm, nothing is imposible for him. yet he has also blessed us abundently with money? the question is for what purpose, for all that we have belongs to him. dont think food from the sky is beyond him ,expecialy in this end time, after all he loves his children. he showed us in this end day he would supply all our needs when he renewed the earth and all the desert turned green and blossomed then the animals came to the land, why do we try to make God small ,as if these things are beyond him? who is your God?
Hi Michaels:While it is true that all things are possible with God, yet the scripture states:
Quote 2 Thes. 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. 13 But ye, brethren, be F8 not weary in well doing. 14 And if any man obey not our word by F9 this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother God Bless
MATTHEW 22:17-21
Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites?
Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?
They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.MATTHEW 17:24-7
And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute [money] came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.From catholic encyclopedia:
Relics – The word relics comes from the Latin reliquiae (the counterpart of the Greek leipsana) which already before the propagation of Christianity was used in its modern sense, viz., of some object, notably part of the body or clothes, remaining as a memorial of a departed saint. The veneration of relics, in fact, is to some extent a primitive instinct, and it is associated with many other religious systems besides that of Christianity.my catholic friends says that God allows graven images: Ex 25:18-22, 26:1,31; Num 21:8-9; 1 Kings 6:23-29, 35, 7:29
the veneration of such images they say is like the respect given to a country's flag.
they also say when they kneel in front of those images, they are actually not worshipping those images.
i even asked them how sure they are about the image of Jesus on the cross when there is/are no recorded image of jesus.
it doesn't matter they say, for it is just a “representation”.
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