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Quote (charity @ Oct. 29 2007,08:43) Hey Towshab Not3in1..is good value….if the message can be delivered clear enough..she will never refuse the truth… transformer girl
Thanks Sis!I am of such great value that God sent his only Son to die for me while I was still in my sin. I do not take that sacrifice lightly…. I certainly will never deny my Lord! I would rather die myself.
I don't understand how some can deny someone with whom they have had a personal relationship? This has to be the deepest pain of rejection. I'll never understand this business of rejecting Jesus once you have known him.
Once you have *truly* loved someone, how can you ever stop? It's impossible!
John 6:68, 69
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go?
You have the words of eternal life.
We believe and know that you are the holy One of God.”
I echo Peter. I pray that I will never leave the Lord or fall away from his care. He has the words of life! Amen.
Quote These wise men, or magis, where not Jewish but pagan. Why would pagan magicians want to worship a Jewish messiah? I'll tell you. Because he was a pagan messiah not a Jewish messiah. You have some research to do. The word “proskyneo” doesn't have to mean worship. In fact, “worship” is not it's primary meaning. They did go to give Jesus (as one born King of the Jews) honour. These chaldeans were astrologers who saw a great sign in the stars. They had to follow it. Hey, if a star starts moving, I might want to see where it goes too. How much more so these magoi, or star-gazers (astrologers).
Quote Here is the next problem with Matthew although it is not an issue with the Jewish scriptures.
——————–
Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
——————–
Herod was a cruel man no doubt. Many of the cruel things he did were recorded. The killing of children under two years old should have made it into the history books. Yet like many other events in Jesus' life nothing was recorded of this in history outside of the Christian bible.Believe it or not Towshab, there were people like you at that time, the time this was all written. They too wanted to discredit anything to do with Jesus.
Yet, for some very odd reason, they failed to make this claim. Or at least, if they did, it wasn't recorded in the history books, as you say.
Quote Hi David, Missed this post. Hashem is indeed the latest way to avoid using the name of G-d. It is a superstition in many ways, but I have adopted this and it has become habitual. I used it many times to avoid offending my Jewish friends and I have no issue with using it. I think it helps to set me apart from Christians here so it is handy.
–Towshab.
Is God's name “too holy for use”?
Is following “superstition” a good thing?
Quote Hashem is indeed the latest way to avoid using the name of G-d.
And here's a silly question: Why would we want to avoid using a name that occurs thousands of times in the Bible when we are specifically told many times to praise God's name?
Yes, Jewish superstition has lead to a misunderstanding and misuse of the commandment not to use God's name wrongly. But do you hold to this, or to superstition?Quote I'm sorry, but I am not trying to hide anything. –towshab, page 4
I just find this amusing coming from a guy wearing a mask.
Quote Towshab and I have been going at it “behind the scenes”. He knows I am desirous of learning the Tanach — particularly the Torah — but he also know that while I'm “teetering” that I still hold a special place in my heart for Yeshua. I agree with Is 1:18. This is just bizarre to me. Either Jesus was a complete fraud or he was who he said he was. Neither of those allow for the idea of “still” holding a special place in your heart for Jesus. Either he is who is said he was or he isn't. There is no in between.
Thanks David. It's encouraging for me to see that you care enough about what people think of Yeshua to go out of your way to really defend Him. He is the Messiah – we all agree on that much!
There might be hope for you yet…
“It can have been by no means so easy as some writers seem to think to invent words and deeds of Jesus in those early years, when so many of His disciples were about, who could remember what had and had not happened. . . . The disciples could not afford to risk inaccuracies (not to speak of willful manipulation of the facts), which would at once be exposed by those who would be only too glad to do so. On the contrary, one of the strong points in the original apostolic preaching is the confident appeal to the knowledge of the hearers; they not only said, ‘We are witnesses of these things,’ but also, ‘As you yourselves also know’ (Acts 2:22).”–Professor F. F. Bruce
The strongest proof of the truth of these writings is in the books themselves. When you read them, they do not sound like myths. They have the ring of truth.
For one thing, they are very frank. Think of what is recorded about Peter. His embarrassing failure to walk on water is detailed. Then, Jesus says to this highly respected apostle: “Get behind me, Satan!” (Matthew 14:28-31; 16:23) Moreover, after vigorously protesting that even if all the others abandoned Jesus, he would never do so, Peter fell asleep on his night watch and then denied his Lord three times.—Matthew 26:31-35, 37-45, 73-75.
But Peter is not the only one whose weaknesses are exposed. The frank record does not gloss over the apostles’ bickering about who was the greatest among them. (Matthew 18:1; Mark 9:34; Luke 22:24) Nor does it omit telling us that the mother of the apostles James and John asked Jesus to give her sons the most favored positions in his Kingdom. (Matthew 20:20-23) The “sharp burst of anger” between Barnabas and Paul is also faithfully documented.—Acts 15:36-39.
Noteworthy, too, is the fact that the book of Luke tells us that it was “the women, who had come with him out of Galilee,” who first learned about Jesus’ resurrection. This is a most unusual detail in the male-dominated society of the first century. Indeed, according to the record, what the women were saying “appeared as nonsense” to the apostles. (Luke 23:55–24:11) If the history in the Greek Scriptures is not true, it must have been invented. But why would anyone invent a story portraying such respected figures in such an unflattering light? These details would have been included only if they were true.
Historian Michael Grant notes:
“If we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus’ existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned.”
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 28 2007,23:46) Signs of the end of the age…. Matthew 24:10-14, in part
At that time many will turn away from the faith…..And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
The Jews are still looking for their promised Messiah to return. There will be many Jews out in the dessert looking for their Lord….
Matthew 24:23-27, in part
At that time if anyone says to you, “Look, here is the Christ!” or, “There he is!” do not believe it.For false Christs and false prophets will appear…..see, I have told you ahead of time.
So if anyone tells you, “There he is, out in the desert,” do not go out…..
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Last post responding to this type of thing. If all one can do is list passages from the Christian bible that are supposed to say I am some type of false prophet you are waiting your time. Since I do not accept the Christian bible what would these passages mean to me?I don't claim to be a prophet nor do I claim to be anointed.
If you can't address the actual content of my posts then I can assume that you are like a voodoo doctor who is trying to throw your curses at me. Will you take up snakes and throw holy water my way next?
Fortunately G-d does indeed have mercy on all mankind. Like Ninevah all you have to do is turn and repent. Hashem detests human sacrifices and drinking of blood. Why then would He change and allow these things to do with His supposed biological son? He wouldn't because they are contradictions.
Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2007,01:54) Quote These wise men, or magis, where not Jewish but pagan. Why would pagan magicians want to worship a Jewish messiah? I'll tell you. Because he was a pagan messiah not a Jewish messiah. You have some research to do. The word “proskyneo” doesn't have to mean worship. In fact, “worship” is not it's primary meaning. They did go to give Jesus (as one born King of the Jews) honour. These chaldeans were astrologers who saw a great sign in the stars. They had to follow it. Hey, if a star starts moving, I might want to see where it goes too. How much more so these magoi, or star-gazers (astrologers).
I'm not focusing on the actual worship aspect. I am showing the first instance of pagans in the Christian bible seeking the pagan messiah. Since this messiah does not fulfill the things that the Jewish Messiah was to fulfill then there is little choice left.Here is what Hashem says about these astrologers
——————————
Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.
Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2007,01:54) Quote These wise men, or magis, where not Jewish but pagan. Why would pagan magicians want to worship a Jewish messiah? I'll tell you. Because he was a pagan messiah not a Jewish messiah. You have some research to do. The word “proskyneo” doesn't have to mean worship. In fact, “worship” is not it's primary meaning. They did go to give Jesus (as one born King of the Jews) honour. These chaldeans were astrologers who saw a great sign in the stars. They had to follow it. Hey, if a star starts moving, I might want to see where it goes too. How much more so these magoi, or star-gazers (astrologers).
I can see how Christians feel about their 'god the father' then if 'proskyneo' does not mean worship as you say it doesn't.Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
That word 'proskyneo' is used here. So I guess Jesus is saying that people will merely honor their 'god the father'.
Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2007,02:00) Quote Here is the next problem with Matthew although it is not an issue with the Jewish scriptures.
——————–
Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
——————–
Herod was a cruel man no doubt. Many of the cruel things he did were recorded. The killing of children under two years old should have made it into the history books. Yet like many other events in Jesus' life nothing was recorded of this in history outside of the Christian bible.Believe it or not Towshab, there were people like you at that time, the time this was all written. They too wanted to discredit anything to do with Jesus.
Yet, for some very odd reason, they failed to make this claim. Or at least, if they did, it wasn't recorded in the history books, as you say.
This is funny. Since the record books do not mention Jesus why would they mention those who oppose him?Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2007,02:08) Quote Hi David, Missed this post. Hashem is indeed the latest way to avoid using the name of G-d. It is a superstition in many ways, but I have adopted this and it has become habitual. I used it many times to avoid offending my Jewish friends and I have no issue with using it. I think it helps to set me apart from Christians here so it is handy.
–Towshab.
Is God's name “too holy for use”?
Is following “superstition” a good thing?
Quote Hashem is indeed the latest way to avoid using the name of G-d.
And here's a silly question: Why would we want to avoid using a name that occurs thousands of times in the Bible when we are specifically told many times to praise God's name?
Yes, Jewish superstition has lead to a misunderstanding and misuse of the commandment not to use God's name wrongly. But do you hold to this, or to superstition?
Actually the words are not used thousands of time in any modern Jewish translation. You are referring to Christian translations. 'Jehovah' likewise is never a name Jews would use.You can call it superstition if you like. We call it respect.
Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2007,02:10) Quote I'm sorry, but I am not trying to hide anything. –towshab, page 4
I just find this amusing coming from a guy wearing a mask.
I was merely wanting to make the threads private so only those who wished to discuss these things could. That way others who did not care to read what is going on don't have to. I know some Christians, like some Jews, are weak in their faith and knowledge and might not be able to take the words of these threads without getting upset.I chose the avatar in honor of the one who keeps calling me stranger.
Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2007,02:49) The strongest proof of the truth of these writings is in the books themselves. When you read them, they do not sound like myths. They have the ring of truth.
The Muslim will say the same thing about the Koran. The Mormon says the same thing about the book of Mormon. I know someone who truly believes the Urantia book is true. People made a religion out of books by L. Ron Hubbard that were supposed to be fiction. This argument therefore fails to prove any point.Quote For one thing, they are very frank. Think of what is recorded about Peter. His embarrassing failure to walk on water is detailed. Then, Jesus says to this highly respected apostle: “Get behind me, Satan!” (Matthew 14:28-31; 16:23) Moreover, after vigorously protesting that even if all the others abandoned Jesus, he would never do so, Peter fell asleep on his night watch and then denied his Lord three times.—Matthew 26:31-35, 37-45, 73-75. But Peter is not the only one whose weaknesses are exposed. The frank record does not gloss over the apostles’ bickering about who was the greatest among them. (Matthew 18:1; Mark 9:34; Luke 22:24) Nor does it omit telling us that the mother of the apostles James and John asked Jesus to give her sons the most favored positions in his Kingdom. (Matthew 20:20-23) The “sharp burst of anger” between Barnabas and Paul is also faithfully documented.—Acts 15:36-39.
In order to make Jesus look truly like a god it was necessary to make his followers look like worthless boobs.Quote Noteworthy, too, is the fact that the book of Luke tells us that it was “the women, who had come with him out of Galilee,” who first learned about Jesus’ resurrection. This is a most unusual detail in the male-dominated society of the first century. Indeed, according to the record, what the women were saying “appeared as nonsense” to the apostles. (Luke 23:55–24:11) If the history in the Greek Scriptures is not true, it must have been invented. But why would anyone invent a story portraying such respected figures in such an unflattering light? These details would have been included only if they were true.
This is proof of the validity of the Christian bible? Not too convincing when one sees the very anti-semitic theme of the Christian bible. It may have elevated woman but in turn it turned G-d's chosen people into children of your satan.'Anything in the new testament that is true is not new, anything that is new is not true' – Rabbi Tovia Singer
Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2007,02:50) Historian Michael Grant notes: “If we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus’ existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned.”
Who worships these pagan personages? Who believes that any of these personages have to be believed in to avoid burning in hell?That is the issue. G-d alone deserves our worship all else is idol worship.
Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,14:35) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 28 2007,21:01) Quote Do Muslim suicide bombers die for a cause they know is false? I would assume that they are deceived.
Why are they deceived but you are not? What evidence can you present that says Christian scripture is inspired while Islamic scripture is not? What do both of these religions have in common? The Jewish Torah. I don't know if Muslims use the rest of the Tanakh though.Quote Here is your problem. You say Jesus was not resurrected. That being the case then someone removed HIS body. I don't think it would be the priests or the Romans, do you?
Why is this a problem? What evidence do you have outside the Christian bible that Jesus was not thrown onto the pile of bodies that other crucified criminals were thrown on? That is what happened to those that the Romans crucified. They were seen as dishonored criminals unworthy of proper burial.Quote So that only leaves His disciples (apostles) who died for what according to you knew what was not true. And not just die, but gruesome deaths some being stoned and wiped from time to time all for what they knew what was NOT true.
Again we must go back to Muslims dying by killing themselves in a fiery death because of their religious zealousy. This proves nothing. How many people have died at the hands of Christians in the last 2000 years?Quote And you believe that what they taught they did not believe because they would have been the only ones according to the Jews who would have removed Jesus' body. Yet they died for a LIE?
Do Muslims die for the truth?Quote Mat 28:11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
Mat 28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
Mat 28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
Mat 28:14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
Mat 28:15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.
Note that Matthew's account is not backed up by any other Christian bible writer. Matthew alone speaks of this. Why should I believe this when I've already pointed out several problems with Matthews' book?Heresay at best.
Quote Why are your Jewish friends scared to even spell GOD? Will the God of love punish them for typing His Title?
Its not fear, its respect. Names are for us to use to speak to one another. If you'll check out wikipedia
——————————
In Judaism, the name of God is more than a distinguishing title. It represents the Jewish conception of the divine nature, and of the relation of God to the Jewish people. To show the sacredness of the names of God, and as a means of showing respect and reverence for them, the scribes of sacred texts took pause before copying them, and used terms of reverence so as to keep the true name of God concealed. The various names of God in Judaism represent God as he is known, as well as the divine aspects which are attributed to him.
——————————Quote They as you are still hiding behind the veil of the Old Covenant where only the “high priest” enters.
There is no high priest. The temple is destroyed. The Messiah will be here when the third and last temple is built. The Messiah will be a man and not a reincarnated god-man or some angel descending from heaven.Quote Just as I suspected you never did have a relationship with the Christ~Jesus~. And if you never had a relationship with Jesus then you never had the Holy Spirit and if you never had the Holy Spirit then you were NEVER born again and only know the book and Not the LORD.
You use the LORD but that represents YHVH. Are you saying you think that Jesus was YHVH? I could list the multitude of verses from the Jewish bible that proves that YHVH is not a man. If you believe YHVH to be a man, then you contradict the words G-d gave to His prophets. If you worship this man, you are an idol worshiper.Do you think that the idea that I was never 'baptized in the Holy Spirit' bothers me? No because this is a Christian bible idea. Your statement is like water off a duck's back.
Quote Just as Judas did his thing I suppose you must do yours 
Had Judas never fulfilled his part you would never have your savior. What's the big deal then? Judas is every bit as responsible for your faith as Jesus is.Quote Why is this a problem? What evidence do you have outside the Christian bible that Jesus was not thrown onto the pile of bodies that other crucified criminals were thrown on? That is what happened to those that the Romans crucified. They were seen as dishonored criminals unworthy of proper burial. Sir If Jesus was not resurrected then it had to have been His deciples or apostles who have had to removed His body. It sure wasn't the priest or the Romans! And if that were true then they were stoned, wiped and crucified for a lie that they started. Would you die for something you KNEW were false? Would you be able to watch your family being eaten by lions for something you knew was false?
If you believe that then you are beyond reason being blinded by the god of this world. Sure they are some mistakes in the wording by the HUMANS who wrote the Gospel but the message is the same in the Old testament as well as the New Testament Jesus fulfilled the sacrifical law OR why don't you offer animals?
You don't have the Holy Spirit to witness to your spirit that these things are true. Because of this you only have what men have written and your heart is cold and hard unable to harbor the truth fulfilling the last day scriptures.
As Judas you are doing what you are called to do. Judas was poessessed by Satan himself. You are not worthy of such a privilege by your master.
Yes I suppose that MY Father is just a Name to you!
May your G_D
have mercy on your soul. 
Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,23:47) I chose the avatar in honor of the one who keeps calling me stranger.
John 10:4,5When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.
But they will never follow a stanger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice.
There will be those who cry out, “Lord, Lord!” and the Lord will say, “Depart from me…..I never knew you.” Those who are not known to the Lord are considered stranger's to the Lord.
Voodoo is of no use. However, prayer has power.
2 Corninthians 10:4
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, thy have divine power to demolish strongholds.
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