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Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 28 2007,14:33) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,00:50) Just be warned that you will know what I will be showing and if you do not like it you should stay away from my threads.
The demons also wanted Christ to stay away from them. In fact, they begged him to not torture them before their appointed time. The demons wanted Jesus to “stay away” as well.No one owns a thread. To say a thread is “my thread” only exposes further your true mission here.
Those who deny Christ are not in the faith, and therefore have nothing to teach God's children.
2 Corninthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you – unless, of course, you fail the test?
Wow, I don't sense must Christian love coming from this person. Sure, I'm listing what I find to be contradictions and I know you do not like it but you act as if I am some demon spawn or something.I guess you don't realize I'm telling people that if they are not ready to be tested in their faith then they should stay away from this thread. Anyone else who wants to discuss the items shown in this thread is welcome.
I take it from the last few posts that some do want to discuss these things. Fine by me. Still I would appreciate discussing the problems I show with Matthew rather than this constant attack on my relationship with G-d. Whatever! I think you should just realize that rebuking me with Christian bible words will be as effective as using words from the Koran or Book of Mormon.
You are right that I do not own this thread. I called them mine because I started them. I can see that you will not discuss what I show on Matthew but instead try to tear me down with character attacks and nitpicking my words. Thats OK I'm used to Christians talking to me that way. The Christian bible is very antisemitic so I would expect that Christians would also want to be angry with anyone who supports the Jewish people.
As the Christian bible show Christians, the only good Jew is one who accepts Jesus. The rest are children of the devil. last I looked in the Jewish bible, Jewish people were the children of G-d.
If you don't think that people who do not accept Jesus cannot teach Christians then please write the evangelicals and messianics and tell them to leave the Jewish people alone.
Hey Towshab
Not3in1..is good value….if the message can be delivered clear enough..she will never refuse the truth… transformer girl
Quote (charity @ Oct. 28 2007,15:43) Hey Towshab Not3in1..is good value….if the message can be delivered clear enough..she will never refuse the truth… transformer girl
I don't doubt she is. I can understand her attitude too. I was the same way at one time. Giving up on a belief is hard if you deny what is in front of you. I see some of the threads have people doing just that.Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 27 2007,19:25) Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. Mar 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
Joh 20:5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
Joh 20:6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
Joh 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
Joh 20:8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.No contradiction. The tomb was found empty in all the gospels!
That's one of the few non-contradictions.Quote I don't want to insult your inelegance but: Did the apostles die, crucified, decapitated for a lot of bunk that they KNEW were false?! 
Do Muslim suicide bombers die for a cause they know is false?
Quote 1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.Sir you must have done something really GOOD to deserve such an temptation OR you were a book Christian not knowing the LORD on a personnel level.
How can you know someone on a personal level if that person was just failed human messiah? He wasn't even anointed in the way of Jewish scripture so he can't even claim that!Quote I really don't believe anyone who has known Jesus the Christ ever denies Him. I have met people who backslide but always return to the Lord. Thus the saying “once saved always saved”.
Sounds baptist to me. Did you know that the baptists sponsor Jews for Jesus? So instead of killing Jews now Christians just try to convert them. Either way their goal is to eliminate the Jews.The Jews have survived so long for no real reason other than one – G-d. I'd take note if I were you.
Quote Mat 28:11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
Mat 28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
Mat 28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
Mat 28:14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
Mat 28:15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.Do you openly deny Christ? I won't say you cannot be saved. Only God knows your heart.
Yes He does. Jesus doesn't because he is dead and all someone may find is his bones. Only G-d is immortal without beginning or end.Quote But you should repent.
Can you point out what I should repent of? Believing in YHVH? Why?Quote Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear;
Isa 59:2 but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.
Isa 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies; your tongue mutters wickedness.
Strange you should quote this since it is from the Jewish bible (which Christians have altered in their translations). G-d told us not to believe prophets that lead us to other gods (deu 13). Maybe you should heed this passage and not be led to follow a man. Are you not a man as well? Or do you believe that Jesus was god? Are you an idol worshipper then?Quote Did you have a relationship with Jesus? May God and His Son have mercy on your soul.
God bless and help you,
Ken
Correction. May G-d have mercy on my soul. Your god has a physical son, mine only has children by Adam. Your god is only following those before him: Osiris, Mithras, Krishna, etc.Quote (charity @ Oct. 28 2007,14:59) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,00:50) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 28 2007,01:35) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 28 2007,11:22) If the moderators can make private forums that people can access by invitation only I would be willing to continue. But I'd like for the threads to be private. Can ikonboard do that?
John 3:20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.
I'm sorry, but I am not trying to hide anything. I just figured that I could carry this on with those who are interested without disrupting the others on the board. Some have already said (you being one of them) that I am here to attack people's faith, and someone else told me that this board was like a community for its members. I read some parts of some other threads and saw the truth in this. It made me feel bad because my purpose is not to hurt people. You may not agree but all of what I present is from your bible and Jewish scriptures.If you feel I am hiding or fearing I can continue. I have no fear of what my faith is. If you call me evil then be prepared to call your 'old testament' evil because I can show where Jesus is not the Messiah from them.
This thread is about Matthew though. Scholars say that this gospel was written to Jews. I am simply showing where Matthew is so flawed that any Jewish person who knows scripture would deny Jesus because of the many problems with Matthew.
As I do this I am almost thinking that the writer of Matthew purposely made these mistakes so Jews would deny Jesus.
If other people want me to continue, I will. Just be warned that you will know what I will be showing and if you do not like it you should stay away from my threads. That will have to be the form of privacy that is given.
Hi TowshabI’m Interested in what you have to say…and also my thinking is… that “their” is a problem with the eye witness testament of the Man Jesus Christ’s Life… If “Altered”? I found Mathew to be rather innocent, after seeing the Gospels of John…in its true colours, removing the orginal Kingdom from the earth…and teach the congregation to Judge his brother against his own Knowledge. And to stand firm in pride…just look around and see his work…..it…this Disciple book has lead the world in every way with his one linners,more than Mathews., anyway that’s another thread!
Who's Luke?
Who's Mark?I have found that all the false hoods… that shall poses this earth at the end of this age… will be planed and constructed from the Life of this Man call Jesus…As this prophecy reveals below and is coming to pass…till now.. as it will have to be reviewed, looking back on blinded age that preforms the greatest evils of destrution, to now, the time the eye's are opened, and knees strenthen to see and identify the error of the human imaginations, its evil powers and forces of pride, that destroy the peace and happiness. perverting the transforming of the Nations into one, no more greek Jew..all are brothers of christ?
Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Isa 8:16 ¶ Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.¶ And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. Thank you for your posts. And I don't think you are evil at all…I prefer to have all that i have taken on as truth challenge. And I pray that all that is left standing is the truth within me…one day at a time…what’s right today. can be wrong tomorrow…Gods good will to all men.charity
Thanks charity,At least some do not fear. Their faith must be shallow if it cannot stand up to what I present. Their anger towards me says as much.
Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,00:50) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 28 2007,01:35) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 28 2007,11:22) If the moderators can make private forums that people can access by invitation only I would be willing to continue. But I'd like for the threads to be private. Can ikonboard do that?
John 3:20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.
I'm sorry, but I am not trying to hide anything. I just figured that I could carry this on with those who are interested without disrupting the others on the board. Some have already said (you being one of them) that I am here to attack people's faith, and someone else told me that this board was like a community for its members. I read some parts of some other threads and saw the truth in this. It made me feel bad because my purpose is not to hurt people. You may not agree but all of what I present is from your bible and Jewish scriptures.If you feel I am hiding or fearing I can continue. I have no fear of what my faith is. If you call me evil then be prepared to call your 'old testament' evil because I can show where Jesus is not the Messiah from them.
This thread is about Matthew though. Scholars say that this gospel was written to Jews. I am simply showing where Matthew is so flawed that any Jewish person who knows scripture would deny Jesus because of the many problems with Matthew.
As I do this I am almost thinking that the writer of Matthew purposely made these mistakes so Jews would deny Jesus.
If other people want me to continue, I will. Just be warned that you will know what I will be showing and if you do not like it you should stay away from my threads. That will have to be the form of privacy that is given.
The point to these forums is to challenge all things. But not to attack or hurt people.As long as you challenge what is in the bible with genuine things such as scripture or archaeological evidence, then that is fine, If you are here to say everyone with faith is stupid, then that is not OK.
There is no problem presenting evidence to prove a point, even if the point is not accepted by most here. The ultimate meaning of this forum is to let the truth speak, without the hindrance of predefined beliefs.
So if that is what you are doing, then just continue and there is no need to do this in private.
I admit to not reading most of your posts due to time constraints and therefore I am not sure of your behaviour, but hopefully you are just challenging things.
That said, you should also allow others to challenge you and any predefined beliefs you may hold on to.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 28 2007,18:03)
The point to these forums is to challenge all things. But not to attack or hurt people.As long as you challenge what is in the bible with genuine things such as scripture or archaeological evidence, then that is fine, If you are here to say everyone with faith is stupid, then that is not OK.
There is no problem presenting evidence to prove a point, even if the point is not accepted by most here. The ultimate meaning of this forum is to let the truth speak, without the hindrance of predefined beliefs.
So if that is what you are doing, then just continue and there is no need to do this in private.
I admit to not reading most of your posts due to time constraints and therefore I am not sure of your behaviour, but hopefully you are just challenging things.
That said, you should also allow others to challenge you and any predefined beliefs you may hold on to.
Thank you. I will try my best to refrain from personal attacks. I just hope that others will do the same if I present things that may offend them. I have already been attacked in a moderate way but I understand their attitude.Thank you Mr. T8.
Quote (charity @ Oct. 29 2007,07:59) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,00:50) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 28 2007,01:35) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 28 2007,11:22) If the moderators can make private forums that people can access by invitation only I would be willing to continue. But I'd like for the threads to be private. Can ikonboard do that?
John 3:20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.
I'm sorry, but I am not trying to hide anything. I just figured that I could carry this on with those who are interested without disrupting the others on the board. Some have already said (you being one of them) that I am here to attack people's faith, and someone else told me that this board was like a community for its members. I read some parts of some other threads and saw the truth in this. It made me feel bad because my purpose is not to hurt people. You may not agree but all of what I present is from your bible and Jewish scriptures.If you feel I am hiding or fearing I can continue. I have no fear of what my faith is. If you call me evil then be prepared to call your 'old testament' evil because I can show where Jesus is not the Messiah from them.
This thread is about Matthew though. Scholars say that this gospel was written to Jews. I am simply showing where Matthew is so flawed that any Jewish person who knows scripture would deny Jesus because of the many problems with Matthew.
As I do this I am almost thinking that the writer of Matthew purposely made these mistakes so Jews would deny Jesus.
If other people want me to continue, I will. Just be warned that you will know what I will be showing and if you do not like it you should stay away from my threads. That will have to be the form of privacy that is given.
Hi TowshabI’m Interested in what you have to say…and also my thinking is… that “their” is a problem with the eye witness testament of the Man Jesus Christ’s Life… If “Altered”? I found Mathew to be rather innocent, after seeing the Gospels of John…in its true colours, removing the orginal Kingdom from the earth…and teach the congregation to Judge his brother against his own Knowledge. And to stand firm in pride…just look around and see his work…..it…this Disciple book has lead the world in every way with his one linners,more than Mathews., anyway that’s another thread!
Who's Luke?
Who's Mark?I have found that all the false hoods… that shall poses this earth at the end of this age… will be planed and constructed from the Life of this Man call Jesus…As this prophecy reveals below and is coming to pass…till now.. as it will have to be reviewed, looking back on blinded age that preforms the greatest evils of destrution, to now, the time the eye's are opened, and knees strenthen to see and identify the error of the human imaginations, its evil powers and forces of pride, that destroy the peace and happiness. perverting the transforming of the Nations into one, no more greek Jew..all are brothers of christ?
Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Isa 8:16 ¶ Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.¶ And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. Thank you for your posts. And I don't think you are evil at all…I prefer to have all that i have taken on as truth challenge. And I pray that all that is left standing is the truth within me…one day at a time…what’s right today. can be wrong tomorrow…Gods good will to all men.charity
Gasp!!
Charity, I am pleasantly surprised at your response.
Somehow I didn't expect that from you.
Bless you.Tim
Quote (david @ Oct. 27 2007,14:45) Hashem: in Judaism, a substitute word used when referring to God in contexts other than prayers or scriptural readings, because the name for God is considered too holy for such use. Did those who wrote the Bible consider God's name “too holy” for use?
Are we not told countless times to praise God's name?
Why is it in there (the Hebrew scriptures) close to 7000 times?
Hi David,Missed this post. Hashem is indeed the latest way to avoid using the name of G-d. It is a superstition in many ways, but I have adopted this and it has become habitual. I used it many times to avoid offending my Jewish friends and I have no issue with using it. I think it helps to set me apart from Christians here so it is handy.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 27 2007,18:10) Come on Towshab, I don't want to see you leave.
If for no other reason than I like the way you have given me a whole new respect
for the biblical knowledge of david.Believers should not fear discourse with non believers if they are truly grounded in their faith.
It should permit them to prove the error in the non believer's thinking.Tim
Thanks, I will continue. Be warned forum! I will do my best to avoid personal conflict but what I present may be trying to you. If you are not ready spiritually to read this, please avoid his thread. That is all the warning I will give.Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 29 2007,11:12) [/quote]
Gasp!!
Charity, I am pleasantly surprised at your response.
Somehow I didn't expect that from you.
Bless you.Tim
Wow…YOU CAN PROBLEY EXPECT MORE thenGod bless you.
And may we all grow in the grace and love of God …freelyAh, where was I? Matthew, chapter 2. Its AMAZING how many mistakes Matthew made! Like I've said, I now think he did it on purpose. Whoever wrote this gospel was really a good Jew because he kept other good Jews from falling for Jesus. He accomplished this by inserting many mistakes into the gospel of Matthew.
Mat 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men {magi}, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
These wise men, or magis, where not Jewish but pagan. Why would pagan magicians want to worship a Jewish messiah? I'll tell you. Because he was a pagan messiah not a Jewish messiah.
Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,11:37) Ah, where was I? Matthew, chapter 2. Its AMAZING how many mistakes Matthew made! Like I've said, I now think he did it on purpose. Whoever wrote this gospel was really a good Jew because he kept other good Jews from falling for Jesus. He accomplished this by inserting many mistakes into the gospel of Matthew. Mat 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men {magi}, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
These wise men, or magis, where not Jewish but pagan. Why would pagan magicians want to worship a Jewish messiah? I'll tell you. Because he was a pagan messiah not a Jewish messiah.
Hey TowshabHave ya read the gospel of Barnabas…It Describes two Kinds of Jesus’… escape Goat…loaded up with sins….
Still in chapter 2. Matthew is either incompetant or intentional.
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
What prophet said this? O yes, Hosea!
Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Matthew again only gets part of the verse right. Hosea 11:1 is about Israel, not Jesus. Yet another time that Matthew goes overboard in trying to fit Jesus into the Jewish scriptures.
Quote (charity @ Oct. 28 2007,18:45) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,11:37) Ah, where was I? Matthew, chapter 2. Its AMAZING how many mistakes Matthew made! Like I've said, I now think he did it on purpose. Whoever wrote this gospel was really a good Jew because he kept other good Jews from falling for Jesus. He accomplished this by inserting many mistakes into the gospel of Matthew. Mat 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men {magi}, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
These wise men, or magis, where not Jewish but pagan. Why would pagan magicians want to worship a Jewish messiah? I'll tell you. Because he was a pagan messiah not a Jewish messiah.
Hey TowshabHave ya read the gospel of Barnabas…It Describes two Kinds of Jesus’… escape Goat…loaded up with sins….
Not yet. The translations of gnostic gospels are poor at best so they are hard to read. I'll try to check it out.Here is the next problem with Matthew although it is not an issue with the Jewish scriptures.
——————–
Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
——————–
Herod was a cruel man no doubt. Many of the cruel things he did were recorded. The killing of children under two years old should have made it into the history books. Yet like many other events in Jesus' life nothing was recorded of this in history outside of the Christian bible.Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 29 2007,10:56) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 27 2007,19:25) Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. Mar 16:6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
Joh 20:5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
Joh 20:6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
Joh 20:7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
Joh 20:8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.No contradiction. The tomb was found empty in all the gospels!
That's one of the few non-contradictions.Quote I don't want to insult your inelegance but: Did the apostles die, crucified, decapitated for a lot of bunk that they KNEW were false?! Do Muslim suicide bombers die for a cause they know is false?
Quote 1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.Sir you must have done something really GOOD to deserve such an temptation OR you were a book Christian not knowing the LORD on a personnel level.
How can you know someone on a personal level if that person was just failed human messiah? He wasn't even anointed in the way of Jewish scripture so he can't even claim that!Quote I really don't believe anyone who has known Jesus the Christ ever denies Him. I have met people who backslide but always return to the Lord. Thus the saying “once saved always saved”.
Sounds baptist to me. Did you know that the baptists sponsor Jews for Jesus? So instead of killing Jews now Christians just try to convert them. Either way their goal is to eliminate the Jews.The Jews have survived so long for no real reason other than one – G-d. I'd take note if I were you.
Quote Mat 28:11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
Mat 28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
Mat 28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
Mat 28:14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
Mat 28:15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.Do you openly deny Christ? I won't say you cannot be saved. Only God knows your heart.
Yes He does. Jesus doesn't because he is dead and all someone may find is his bones. Only G-d is immortal without beginning or end.Quote But you should repent.
Can you point out what I should repent of? Believing in YHVH? Why?Quote Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear;
Isa 59:2 but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.
Isa 59:3 For your hands are defiled with blood and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies; your tongue mutters wickedness.
Strange you should quote this since it is from the Jewish bible (which Christians have altered in their translations). G-d told us not to believe prophets that lead us to other gods (deu 13). Maybe you should heed this passage and not be led to follow a man. Are you not a man as well? Or do you believe that Jesus was god? Are you an idol worshipper then?Quote Did you have a relationship with Jesus? May God and His Son have mercy on your soul.
God bless and help you,
Ken
Correction. May G-d have mercy on my soul. Your god has a physical son, mine only has children by Adam. Your god is only following those before him: Osiris, Mithras, Krishna, etc.Quote Do Muslim suicide bombers die for a cause they know is false? I would assume that they are deceived.
Here is your problem. You say Jesus was not resurrected. That being the case then someone removed HIS body. I don't think it would be the priests or the Romans, do you?So that only leaves His disciples (apostles) who died for what according to you knew what was not true. And not just die, but gruesome deaths some being stoned and wiped from time to time all for what they knew what was NOT true.
And you believe that what they taught they did not believe because they would have been the only ones according to the Jews who would have removed Jesus' body. Yet they died for a LIE?
Mat 28:11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
Mat 28:12
And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
Mat 28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
Mat 28:14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
Mat 28:15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.Why are your Jewish friends scared to even spell GOD? Will the God of love punish them for typing His Title?
They as you are still hiding behind the veil of the Old Covenant where only the “high priest” enters.
Just as I suspected you never did have a relationship with the Christ~Jesus~. And if you never had a relationship with Jesus then you never had the Holy Spirit and if you never had the Holy Spirit then you were NEVER born again and only know the book and Not the LORD.
Just as Judas did his thing I suppose you must do yours
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 28 2007,21:01) Quote Do Muslim suicide bombers die for a cause they know is false? I would assume that they are deceived.
Why are they deceived but you are not? What evidence can you present that says Christian scripture is inspired while Islamic scripture is not? What do both of these religions have in common? The Jewish Torah. I don't know if Muslims use the rest of the Tanakh though.Quote Here is your problem. You say Jesus was not resurrected. That being the case then someone removed HIS body. I don't think it would be the priests or the Romans, do you?
Why is this a problem? What evidence do you have outside the Christian bible that Jesus was not thrown onto the pile of bodies that other crucified criminals were thrown on? That is what happened to those that the Romans crucified. They were seen as dishonored criminals unworthy of proper burial.Quote So that only leaves His disciples (apostles) who died for what according to you knew what was not true. And not just die, but gruesome deaths some being stoned and wiped from time to time all for what they knew what was NOT true.
Again we must go back to Muslims dying by killing themselves in a fiery death because of their religious zealousy. This proves nothing. How many people have died at the hands of Christians in the last 2000 years?Quote And you believe that what they taught they did not believe because they would have been the only ones according to the Jews who would have removed Jesus' body. Yet they died for a LIE?
Do Muslims die for the truth?Quote Mat 28:11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
Mat 28:12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
Mat 28:13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
Mat 28:14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
Mat 28:15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.
Note that Matthew's account is not backed up by any other Christian bible writer. Matthew alone speaks of this. Why should I believe this when I've already pointed out several problems with Matthews' book?Heresay at best.
Quote Why are your Jewish friends scared to even spell GOD? Will the God of love punish them for typing His Title?
Its not fear, its respect. Names are for us to use to speak to one another. If you'll check out wikipedia
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In Judaism, the name of God is more than a distinguishing title. It represents the Jewish conception of the divine nature, and of the relation of God to the Jewish people. To show the sacredness of the names of God, and as a means of showing respect and reverence for them, the scribes of sacred texts took pause before copying them, and used terms of reverence so as to keep the true name of God concealed. The various names of God in Judaism represent God as he is known, as well as the divine aspects which are attributed to him.
——————————Quote They as you are still hiding behind the veil of the Old Covenant where only the “high priest” enters.
There is no high priest. The temple is destroyed. The Messiah will be here when the third and last temple is built. The Messiah will be a man and not a reincarnated god-man or some angel descending from heaven.Quote Just as I suspected you never did have a relationship with the Christ~Jesus~. And if you never had a relationship with Jesus then you never had the Holy Spirit and if you never had the Holy Spirit then you were NEVER born again and only know the book and Not the LORD.
You use the LORD but that represents YHVH. Are you saying you think that Jesus was YHVH? I could list the multitude of verses from the Jewish bible that proves that YHVH is not a man. If you believe YHVH to be a man, then you contradict the words G-d gave to His prophets. If you worship this man, you are an idol worshiper.Do you think that the idea that I was never 'baptized in the Holy Spirit' bothers me? No because this is a Christian bible idea. Your statement is like water off a duck's back.
Quote Just as Judas did his thing I suppose you must do yours
Had Judas never fulfilled his part you would never have your savior. What's the big deal then? Judas is every bit as responsible for your faith as Jesus is.Quote (Stu @ Oct. 27 2007,22:21) Quote (Towshab @ Oct. 28 2007,15:01) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 27 2007,20:55) Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 28 2007,11:10) Come on Towshab, I don't want to see you leave.
If for no other reason than I like the way you have given me a whole new respect
for the biblical knowledge of david.Believers should not fear discourse with non believers if they are truly grounded in their faith.
It should permit them to prove the error in the non believer's thinking.Tim
…or allow themselves to be convinced of the falsehood of their superstitions?Stuart
Stu,Are you an atheist, agnostic, or deist?
Like everyone else on the planet, I am agnostic.
I am deist in the manner of Spinoza, Eintein, Sagan or Dawkins – “god” is a metaphor for the universe's awe-inspiring mysteries that are awaiting investigation, but not anything real.
I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian god, or Baal, or Zeus, or Odin, or Unicorns, tarot cards, astrology or UFOs.I sometimes resist the word atheist because it is just weird to be defined in terms of something that does not exist. I imagine you don't feel the same way.
I do have fairies at the bottom of my garden that pronounce belief in gods as delusional. They never tell me why, though.
Stuart
Hi Stu,Sorry to bypass your response. I got busy as you might be seeing.
I know a little about Spinoza and Einstein. I think they believed in a cosmic form of deity, nothing personal but a creative force of some type. This may not be correct but I have not studied them too much. I think Einstein later denied this too.
I thought Dawkins was a strict atheist? If such a person exists.
I was listening to a series by Rabbi Tovia Singer recently. He said that someone told him one time that he appreciated his work in educating Jewish people against messianics and their underhanded ploys. The person then went on to say he was an atheist. Rabbi Singer then offered the man $1K to take down the Torah and spit on it. The atheist said he would not do it to which Rabbi Singer replied “some atheist you are, I'd spit on the Bhagavad Gita for free”.
That aside I have no issue with atheists or agnostics. Unlike Christians I do not think you will burn in hell for denying to believe in their god-man. Atheists and agnostics tend to be very civil people because they live life differently. Since they do not believe in any afterlife they try to make the best of the years they have here.
I think the reason Dawkins and his gang are so angry and vocal is that atheists and agnostics have become like the Jews. That is, they are tired of the evangelicals trying to convert them. People should make their own choice.
I've asked Christians what they felt would happen to those who never heard of Jesus. Most could not say with a good conscience that those people would burn in hell. So I asked them why they bothered then because once they told a person about Jesus and they rejected him then they would burn in hell. Wouldn't that person the be better off never knowing? Therefore, Christians who spread the gospel are guilty of sending people to hell!!
Of course I don't believe in hell. The Jewish bible does not teach of such a place. I know you don't like the G-d you see in the Jewish bible ('old testament'), but you really have to study the Tanakh to know the real story. On the surface YHVH does appear to be a cruel G-d but the story is much deeper than that.
Whatever the case I don't try to get others to believe in G-d. Either they do or they don't. My religion does not tell me to convert people. The only orders I have along those lines is to live my life in such a fashion that people would see G-d in action. The Jews were to be the ones to point to G-d and while I am not a Jew I am something like a righteous Gentile. It is a long story.
Peace.
Signs of the end of the age….
Matthew 24:10-14, in part
At that time many will turn away from the faith…..And many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
The Jews are still looking for their promised Messiah to return. There will be many Jews out in the dessert looking for their Lord….
Matthew 24:23-27, in part
At that time if anyone says to you, “Look, here is the Christ!” or, “There he is!” do not believe it.For false Christs and false prophets will appear…..see, I have told you ahead of time.
So if anyone tells you, “There he is, out in the desert,” do not go out…..
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
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