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Many scholars believed that Peter did not write the epistles that were attributed to him, but that they were written by Mark as a type of “secretary”. This is because the believe through various clues in scripture that Peter was a fisherman by trade, and most fisherman in that time were mostly illiterate. However, the words of Peter's epistles were thought to be his even if Mark actually wrote them.
But what about the Gospel of John? The consensus among scholars is that the Apostle John wrote it, but there are some who say it could have been another John. I stumbled across a verse that would question the Apostle John as the author because the GoJ appears to be quite Hellenistic and fairly well written. The opening chapter of John is also fairly philosophical. Here is the verse:
Act 4:13 Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus.
The KJV uses “unlearned”. The Vine's entry for this is:
Unlearned:
lit., “unlettered” (grammata, “letters:” grapho, “to write”), Act 4:13, is explained by Grimm-Thayer as meaning “unversed in the learning of the Jewish schools;” in the papyri, however, it occurs very frequently in a formula used by one who signs for another who cannot write, which suggests that the rulers, elders and scribes regarded the Apostles as “unlettered” (Moulton and Milligan).
Also, it is well known that like Peter and Andrew, John was a fisherman. Fisherman of that time period did not typically have the time or monetary means to become literate, nor was it deemed as necessary in that day and age.
Another clue that leads me to believe that the Apostle John was not the writer of GoJ was the scene during the transfiguration of Yahshua.
Mat 17:1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
Mat 17:2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
Mat 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
Mat 17:4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
Mat 17:5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”
Mat 17:6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified.
Mat 17:7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.”
Mat 17:8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.
Mat 17:9 As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.”This is a very important event in the mission of Yahshua yet GoJ makes no mention of it. It was mentioned in Mark 9 (it is believed that Mark was written using Peter as the eye-witness to the life of Yahshua) and Luke 9, but not in John at all. Perhaps the writer of GoJ thought it would be redundant since it was in the other 3, but who knows?
Of course this has nothing to do with the message of GoJ, but I find it interesting that these two items seem to lead away from the Apostle John being the writer of GoJ. Any thoughts?
Hi Kejonn
Thanks for your post
there really is a few things to be looked into; for us, and not only that; may justice be done for those who were faithful in their books; disciple Books have been put to the bottom of the pile; even destroyed out of our site; until just of recent years; and the Nations to be handed a canon on a silver plater from whomever; headed the Holy bible
Also Mathew has said the mother of James and John requested for her sons to sit one on each side of Christ
Mat 20:21
And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.Maybe not a good Idea mother ..for..
Mat 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Now Mark.. has said James and John were the ones asking Jesus to sit at his each side
Mar 10:37
They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.Luke armed to expose John and James spirit
Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of *spirit ye are of*. :56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them]. And they went to another village.Luke are you saying this…Mat 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.Mathew would have us know that the disciples were very upset about John and James mothers request;booking her sons seats
And yet still in naivety the meaning of their ask
Mat 20:24 And when the ten heard [it], they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. :25 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. :26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; :27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant
:
I like the spirit of the writer of Matthews Gospel; this is how I see my Lord Jesus Kindness to the people in his days on earth
Mat 20:30 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, [thou] Son of David.
:31 And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, [thou] Son of David.
:32 And Jesus stood still, and called them, and said, What will ye that I shall do unto you?
Mat 20:33 They say unto him, Lord, that our eyes may be opened.
:34 So Jesus had compassion [on them], and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him.
And I can’t believe he would spit on the ground, make clay and put it on a mans eyes; charity
Charity,
I read earlier on another site where someone tried to make the case that Lazarus wrote the Gospel of John. The simplest reason they had was the following verses
Jhn 11:5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.
Jhn 19:26 When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He *said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!”
The author of the site went on to provide more “proof” but I haven't looked much further into it.
Oh, and the fact Yahshua raised Lazarus from the dead may have spread a rumor that Lazarus would never die (since he died once already). This (somewhat, but not quite) matches
Jhn 21:23 Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”
Another “hint” that the writer of GoJ might not be the Apostle John:
Jhn 21:20 Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?”
Jhn 21:21 So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?”
Jhn 21:22 Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!”
Jhn 21:23 Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”
Jhn 21:24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.Now, my question is this: why would Peter speak this way about another Apostle? It is as if he is questioning why this beloved disciple is even among them. But then we see the Peter and John are together quite often in Acts, so this does not match.
They have sown the collars to our pants KejonnGrievous case of men using Christ to speck their words; after he ascended;
My thoughts
Christ is the first to be risen from the dead; least Lazarus bet him
Jhn 12:17 The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.
Some say Lazarus was only sleeping; I say that to cannot be so according to all the voices
For Christ is the first fruits of them that slept;
Jhn 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
This also has another twist; that of Intact the power over the second death has not yet been destroyedAlso we are to seek God over the living and the dead
Even over the parable of Abrahams bossom; this to is vexing and has no grounding from the prophets and fathers; as if just created a new; where the dead are made to speck as alive they talking??? Hmmmm; and they think the other dead can go back and warn the ralliesIsa 8:16 ¶ Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
19 ¶ And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. :21 And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.yes in matt mark and luke they make referance to moses and the traditions of moses to keep them,for truely they were followers of moses not jesus,so they told this story about moses,not to break their traditions,and many other stories, saying to keep the trdition of moses,as far as sacrifices,to do as moses commanded,the story of the transfigureation is simply to strengthen their argument,that we should still be following moses,yet john never mentioned these stories,he only spoke TRUTH,he said follow jesus,not moses.jesus said moses is the accuser of the breathren. there is (one) who will accuse you even moses!!!me see three men with there traditions, then me see one fully following GOD.let all men be liars,but GOD the TRUTH!!! GOD said all men,not just some,so look to GOD,for he is the TRUTH.
Hi michaels
Maybe it’s a good Idea to have a look at the gospel of peter you know the one…. that was shuffled to the bottom of the pile along with Thomas;
In its shredded state of bits missing and words blotted out state; It dose tell of the what he saw on the mountain; and will confirm the men appeared
They have mutilated all the resources destroying history…. as an attempt to take full control of the earth’s direction;
A selfesh nature…okay I'll stop there….was not jesus unlearned,yet he taught in the temple,as a boy.GOD gave him the ability to read and understand,is it beyond your GOD to give john,or even peter the ability to write.is anythig beyond him ? is his hand shortend ? can unlearned donkys talk ?
Yep… I went to school to eat my lunch
I’m kind of relying heavy on the word written in my heart michaels
hi charity did not jesus say in john 21 :18 to peter when thou should be old, thou shalt streach forth thy hands,and another shall gird thee, and carry thee where thou wouldest not. my question is to you who carried peter away,where he shouldent have gone,did he get carried away by paul.hmmm why did jesus have to tell peter 3 times,did he think peter had a problem with obeadeance,yet he knew john would be obeadeant,for he dident even tell him one time, john dident have to be told,jesus knew he would write the truth,how much did peter write to feed the sheep even after he was told three times,peter never mentioned moses at the transfiguration.as john dident either ,so this is two witnesses who were actualy there,and they dident say moses and alijah ,yet other men who were not there tell this story.and me havent read thomas in a long time so me dont know what he has to say of the event.me will look,and ask GOD though.
MichaelS,
I do admire your passion for Y'shua Messiah and YHWH our Elohim, except Y'shua Himself told us to obey Moses because Moses wrote the Torah that YHWH instructed him to write. Please read these verses.Matt. 8:4
Matt. 17:3
Matt. 19:8
Mark 9:4
Mark 10:3-6
Mark 12:26
Luke 5:14
and finally Luke 16:22-31 where Y'shua says… “if they didn't listen to Moses, then they wont listen to me either.Thank you Michaels;
I am concerned that the writer of John has taken the keys off peter; and as Kejonn has noted; John may not have even been the author of what is said to be his gospelIn that case; the eye witness is an apostate?
And all that you have said above is the full price of the what the author has designed the book to achieve.
Which is great in you are hearing the words and content incredibly well; and the truth will inpower it either way.
IT WILL be a delight to see John justified; every man needs a fare trial; but if he is found with another fathers spirit; then I do not wish to tally around this book; till my life faint an perishThank you kejonn; you’re a blessing also
charity
me just read thomas ,and once again jesus failed to mention moses,.me was wrong ,me have not read thomas before.there are many more wrightings me havent read,when me get a chance me will ask GOD about each one. and see what he wants me to read,for many scrolls have been uncovered,as GOD said ,for he said knowledge would be increased in the end,yet knowledge is nothing without understanding from the father, for he is the TRUTH.and jesus is in him.
just because john wrote in a selfless way ,not to mention he was this diciple until the end,doesent mean he dident write it,john gives all glory to the father,and son,not claiming to be there that we would keep our eyes on jesus.did he talk about himself thru the hole book,and say this is my gosple,or did he always point you to the son,who will lead you to the father.he only identified himself at the end.
What you feel and think are very important to me michaels
I'm listening ;I don’t want you or anyone to have to wipe the dust of their feet with my ignorance
You’re precious in his sight; and mine tooarent we all ignorant ,in comairison to the father, for he knows all thing,and doesent question himself,saying well me think GOD told me this, all we have to do is ,believe him,for he is the truth, yet this seem to be a hard thing for any of us. for we have been set in our beliefs for so long. most of us our whole life, so when GOD does tell us something,that goes against our traditions,we say this cant be GOD!!! its as if our beliefs are part of us, and in a way we have made them GOD.that we dont hear from the father anymore,only because we dont believe him.
since John was the youngest of the Apostles, and after having been with Christ and the tremendous life altering effect this factor had on John's life, (look at the tremendous effect Jesus has on lives today and none of us are or were as close to the Savior then they were!!!!)… it therefore requires no stretch of the imagination to think that John had all the means necessary to write the Gospel in question….. plus, given the many years he lived after having been with Jesus while Jesus was physically present on earth, and the many years John was alive after Jesus ascended to be with His Father, and further, and most especially, there was a sending of the Spirit to the original Apostles so that they would be supernaturally enabled to remember and recall the words and deeds of Jesus…… John 16:4 NASU But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.”
…. well…. all these factors all make it very easy to see that John had all the time he needed to become a very polished writer, all the more since he was supernaturally gifted to recount the details of Jesus' life and sayings…..and given that he spent so much time with the wisest man to have ever lived, he also evidently became a very wise man himself…. and that he lived the longest among all the disciples, all that was necessary for him to do the job God gave him to do, was… surprise surprise 😉 present for him to get that job done
blessings
Quote (michaels @ Aug. 17 2007,00:47) just because john wrote in a selfless way ,not to mention he was this diciple until the end,doesent mean he dident write it,john gives all glory to the father,and son,not claiming to be there that we would keep our eyes on jesus.did he talk about himself thru the hole book,and say this is my gosple,or did he always point you to the son,who will lead you to the father.he only identified himself at the end.
He never identified himself as John, just the “beloved disciple”.
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