God's voice

[kejonn]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2009,13:33)

Yes Tim4, We learn of God from the bible. Is it right to then condemn the God the bible reveals?

It certainly is when it is all speculation and guesswork.

You worship a book, Nick

Idolism is a sin.

[942767]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,12:47)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 27 2009,11:27) Hi Tim, Mandy, Charity & Kejohn: I'll just leave this discussion with the following scriptures: Quote 2Pe 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen Love in Christ, Marty Marty, I appreciate you very much, you know this.     I firmly believe that God's written Word, and God's living Word can hold up under the most keen scrutiny.  I also believe that God is up for his children wondering about the apparent contradictions in both.  I do not think it is sickening to question God.  He is our Father for crying out loud!  If you cannot go to your parent and ask the hard questions, then who can you go to? Thanks for trying to answer some of the harder questions.  Sometimes there isn't an answer.  Sometimes the only answers that can be given lend themselves to more questions.  I guess we won't know until that Day. Love, Mandy

Hi Mandy:

I promised you that if you had a question about anything in the scriptures that I would give you my understanding, and I will do that.  But if my answer does not satisfy your question, I am not going to argue back and forth on the issue with you.  There are some things in OT that are difficult to understand, and I don't have the answer to some things like Lot's situation with his daughters, but I am not going to dwell on this and let it discount what I know about my God.

Jesus came to reveal God's personality, and to reveal his purpose for us.  I know Him as my Father who loves me.  He is a God of compassion, and mercy, but He is also a God who is a God of justice, and He will hold man accountable for their sins if they do not repent.  Those in the body of Christ are not guilty.

My desire is God's very best for you and your family, and for all of humanity.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi:

This is what Solomon says pertaining to life:

Quote

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man. Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

[charity]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 27 2009,14:47)

Hi: This is what Solomon says pertaining to life: Quote Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man. Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

you can fear him “god the King” because if he wants to chop your head off like John the baptists…God won't stop him.
you have to remember… God.. gods. and the references that are addressed to the acting authority… “The Lord God The King”
And that which draws a Holt to the power of truth is Jesus was executed, and weather or not risen again?…
the question not asked an to all the answering books of the bible question is….. why dose God not allow Jesus to show himself off as the conquer of death? so evil will stop in Orr? of course a lie will preach hes gone now to  prepare a Place, sorry about that folks, oh no don't be disappointed, he said will come back…. human Nature is to sceem and to settle and control the flame that burns.
why do we have to believe Elijah went to heaven in a chariot.

Ecc 5:7  For in the multitude of dreams and many words [there are] also [divers] vanities: but fear thou God.
Ecc 5:8 If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for [he that is] higher than the highest regardeth; and [there be] higher than they.
Ecc 5:9 Moreover the profit of the earth is for all: the king [himself] is served by the field.

the circle of life….just ain't always Fare/fear..believing in God just gives the well behaved  an sense of safety, and the broken prey, thus less fortunate the terror of hell to live with.
-charity

[Not3in1]

Hi Keith,

Quote

So there must be a reason that God stands there with all this Love and Power and just watches that little girl get raped and hacked up and does nothing about it?

Here is the difference:

1.  God order's Moses to kill a little girl.
2.  Moses kills a little girl without God telling him to do so because he is following the evil in his heart.

In the first example, it is God who is causing the evil to take place.
In the second example, it is man who is committing the evil out of his own evil desires.

You must see the difference here?

Could God stop Moses from killing a girl?  Sure.  But that is really not what we are talking about here.  We are talking about God giving orders to do these terrible things.  

Thanks for trying to understand,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 27 2009,14:11)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,12:47) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 27 2009,11:27) Hi Tim, Mandy, Charity & Kejohn: I'll just leave this discussion with the following scriptures: Quote 2Pe 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen Love in Christ, Marty Marty, I appreciate you very much, you know this.     I firmly believe that God's written Word, and God's living Word can hold up under the most keen scrutiny.  I also believe that God is up for his children wondering about the apparent contradictions in both.  I do not think it is sickening to question God.  He is our Father for crying out loud!  If you cannot go to your parent and ask the hard questions, then who can you go to? Thanks for trying to answer some of the harder questions.  Sometimes there isn't an answer.  Sometimes the only answers that can be given lend themselves to more questions.  I guess we won't know until that Day. Love, Mandy Hi Mandy: I promised you that if you had a question about anything in the scriptures that I would give you my understanding, and I will do that.  But if my answer does not satisfy your question, I am not going to argue back and forth on the issue with you.  There are some things in OT that are difficult to understand, and I don't have the answer to some things like Lot's situation with his daughters, but I am not going to dwell on this and let it discount what I know about my God. Jesus came to reveal God's personality, and to reveal his purpose for us.  I know Him as my Father who loves me.  He is a God of compassion, and mercy, but He is also a God who is a God of justice, and He will hold man accountable for their sins if they do not repent.  Those in the body of Christ are not guilty. My desire is God's very best for you and your family, and for all of humanity. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

Sounds good, thanks bro.

Love to you too,
Mandy

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,17:18)

Hi Keith, Quote So there must be a reason that God stands there with all this Love and Power and just watches that little girl get raped and hacked up and does nothing about it? Here is the difference: 1.  God order's Moses to kill a little girl. 2.  Moses kills a little girl without God telling him to do so because he is following the evil in his heart. In the first example, it is God who is causing the evil to take place. In the second example, it is man who is committing the evil out of his own evil desires. You must see the difference here? Could God stop Moses from killing a girl?  Sure.  But that is really not what we are talking about here.  We are talking about God giving orders to do these terrible things.   Thanks for trying to understand, Mandy

Hi Mandy

So God stood there and let Moses kill the little girl when he had the power to stop it?

So let me see if I understand your reasoning.

A little girl is being raped by a 15 year old, and a grown adult is standing there with the power to stop it and does nothing.

So you think that grown adult is all loving because he didn't knock the crap out of the rapist but just stood there and let it happen?

So when it is all done then the 15 year old is guilty and the adult is not guilty but praised for being all loving?

There is no difference in the one watching and the one doing the raping! For the one watching had the power to stop it and did nothing!

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,17:18)

Could God stop Moses from killing a girl?  Sure.  But that is really not what we are talking about here.  We are talking about God giving orders to do these terrible things.

But that is what we are talking about. We are talking about an all-loving, all-powerful God who could not do such things against man by even using man.

Yet God who is all-loving and all-powerful stands by and lets this evil go on and does nothing when he has the power to stop it. Where is the difference?

Sorry Mandy, The reality is that God is infinite and there are things we do not understand about him, and until we come to grips with that then we will always make God into our image and what we think in our puny minds he should be.

God created all things and I believe he owes no man an explanation or an oppology!

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! “how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!“ Rom 11:33

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Rom 9:20-24

WJ

[Not3in1]

Hi Keith,

There is a difference between God COMMANDING a man to rape a child, and a man just raping a child because he wants to.

Please notice the difference:

1.  God COMMANDS a 15 year old boy to rape a little girl.
2.  A 15 year old boy rapes a girl because he is giving into his own evil desires.

We are not talking about anyone stopping anything.  We are talking about God COMMANDING someone to do what is evil.  

Murder, by God's own decree is evil, and yet he commanded Moses to murder.  This was the original point Tim was trying to make.  I think we've gotten a bit off track, to be honest.

Thanks,
Mandy

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,17:55)

Hi Keith, There is a difference between God COMMANDING a man to rape a child, and a man just raping a child because he wants to. Please notice the difference: 1.  God COMMANDS a 15 year old boy to rape a little girl. 2.  A 15 year old boy rapes a girl because he is giving into his own evil desires. We are not talking about anyone stopping anything.  We are talking about God COMMANDING someone to do what is evil.   Murder, by God's own decree is evil, and yet he commanded Moses to murder.  This was the original point Tim was trying to make.  I think we've gotten a bit off track, to be honest. Thanks, Mandy

Hi Mandy

The end result is the same.

God ordered it, or God allowed it.

The all-loving, and all powerful God could have not given the order or he could have stopped it.

To say that somehow the God of the Bible is less than a God that just stands there and let it happen when he has the power to stop it is fallacious.

All it is someone trying to exalt thier God as better than the one of the scritpures!

Shameful!

IMO

WJ

[Not3in1]

Hi Keith,

I'm sorry, I do not agree that ordering a crime and allowing a crime are the SAME THING.

God allows us to choose right from wrong.
It is different when God COMMANDS us to do wrong……where is our choice in that?

One act comes from God's heart,
the other act comes from man's heart.

If you cannot see the difference here, than I suppose our debate is not going to do anyone any good.

Love ya,
Mandy

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,18:15)

Hi Keith, I'm sorry, I do not agree that ordering a crime and allowing a crime are the SAME THING. God allows us to choose right from wrong. It is different when God COMMANDS us to do wrong……where is our choice in that? If you cannot see the difference here, than I suppose our debate is not going to do anyone any good. Love ya, Mandy

Mandy!

We all will ultimately make our own choices is right.

We can choose to believe the scriptures or not.

I choose to believe them and think my point is valid as you think yours is.

So have a good night!

Keith

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2009,18:20)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,18:15) Hi Keith, I'm sorry, I do not agree that ordering a crime and allowing a crime are the SAME THING. God allows us to choose right from wrong. It is different when God COMMANDS us to do wrong……where is our choice in that? If you cannot see the difference here, than I suppose our debate is not going to do anyone any good. Love ya, Mandy Mandy! We all will ultimately make our own choices is right. We can choose to believe the scriptures or not. I choose to believe them and think my point is valid as you think yours is. So have a good night! Keith

Keith,

Sounds good, bro.

Sweet dreams,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Keith,
I just wanted to call your attention to the fact that I edited my post after you quoted it. I added the following:

Quote

One act comes from God's heart, the other act comes from man's heart.

I know it won't make any difference, but I wanted to make sure you saw it because the page bumped to a new one.

Goodnight again,
Mandy

[Stu]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 26 2009,06:30)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 25 2009,07:10) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2009,14:06) I recognize God's voice when I suddenly get a thought that seems to come “out of left field” so to say.  In other words, it isn't in the flow of my natural thoughts although it might be an answer to my natural thoughts.  I usually think “wow, I wouldn't have thought of that” after I receive His direction.   At other times I will be thinking of something kinda out of the blue and after a little while, someone will suggest I do this or that which will be the exact thing that I had been thinking about earlier.  I believe that the Lord goes before us in that way sometimes. I test those thoughts to see if they would line up with scripture and the character of God.  Condemming thoughts are not from Him.  We are to take every thought captive. Lightenup They say truth is stranger than fiction, and it is so often the case that we could not make up some of the discoveries we make, or even some of the predicaments our fellow humans get themselves into. Now consider the nature of the Judeo-christian scripture.  The OT is chiefly composed of tedious genealogies, unremarkable 'prophecy' that is waiting for self-fulfilment and the odd smiting that adds up to maybe 32,000,000 humans slaughtered.  The NT is full of Paul and the Johns spinning their dull conservative philosophy and generally telling people to do things their way or pleading to be taken seriously, on pain of damnation.  There is actually nothing in there that is really 'left-field', no commentary or philosophy that strikes one as particularly insightful, showing any novel way of thinking that is outside the standard daily transactions of the mass population.  It is dull, not-strange fiction. So when you think “wow, I wouldn't have thought of that” why would you think to compare that to dull, predictable scripture?  The two are incompatible. Stuart To some the Bible is a book that has no life and is carelessly handled and respected.  To others it is this: Heb 4:12-13 12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. NASU If you think that scripture isn't powerful you ought to read through the posts here and see how they can convict the reader which often leads either to humility and life or nasty responses from the inner darkness even among so called believers.  It really is like a sword that can illuminate the thoughts and intentions of the heart. LU

I didn't say it wasn't powerful. Anaesthetic has a powerful effect on humans too.

There are many in the world who have turned away from christian belief because they had increased exposure to scripture and were seized by the need to wake up and try to reconcile it with what they could see about them, the failing due to the failings of scripture on so many points.

Why should a book that is wrong about physical science and wrong about human nature be convincing to anyone?

Stuart

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 27 2009,18:15)

Hi Keith, I'm sorry, I do not agree that ordering a crime and allowing a crime are the SAME THING. God allows us to choose right from wrong. It is different when God COMMANDS us to do wrong……where is our choice in that? One act comes from God's heart, the other act comes from man's heart. If you cannot see the difference here, than I suppose our debate is not going to do anyone any good. Love ya, Mandy

Hi Mandy

Yes I agree it is a heart issue.

Can we even begin to understand how God's (who is Love) heart could not be moved to stop a little child who is being tortured and raped when with just a poof of his power the evil is over?

Ok lets see…

God commands evil! = “Evil God”

God stands there and watchs the evil when he can stop it! = “Evil God”

If I was an Atheist I would be saying look around you, what kind of all-loving, all-powerful God do you serve?

WJ

[Not3in1]

Good morning!

Again, we are not talking about God having the power to stop Moses from committing murder, we are talking about God COMMANDING Moses to committ murder.

I think it's hard to grasp because those who are loyal to the written Word DO find problems with what Tim and I are presenting…..  But to admit that there is a problem is to question God.  And that is a no-no, big time!!

So the only answer is to remain faithful to the same written Word, knowing that you cannot fathom all of it no matter how hard you try.

I understand giving up and letting God be God.  That is why when I receive those types of answers from people, I just say, “Okay, sounds good.” and leave it at that.  Knowing that they cannot give any other answer.

I'm off to run errands today….

Much love to ya bro,
Mandy

[charity]

The Bible projects Gods voice into all forms from visiting Angels, dreams, burning bushes, wall graffiti to understand. and Danial's that who ain't God but speck up for him by what they understand. and time is the judge…Judge now the past its had its good time?

define What is Gods voice?, and narrow how much width there still offered today terms and conditions, re “God Told Me”

[Lightenup]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 26 2009,16:21)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 27 2009,06:22) It is one thing to struggle with scripture but yet another thing to boldly degrade it.  May God be merciful on them who  do that if He so chooses.  That is not a light offense IMO Blessings, Kathi Hi Kathy, How big of an offense is it to questions the scriptures? Do you think that is blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Do you believe that the bible is God? I do understanding your defending the bible. You have a lot invested in it. But I doubt that you have any more of your time invested in the study of the bible than do I. Tim

Hi Tim,
I have prayerfully had you on my mind since I read your post.

I think there is a big difference between merely questioning scriptures and outright boldly judging them as unreliable.

I know that even John the Baptist needed to ask if Jesus really was the Messiah. Jesus sent him a gentle answer in response.

I think that would have been different if John the Baptist mocked Jesus during his quest and denied that He was the Messiah. I do believe that the Holy Spirit of God searches our heart through our spirit which is said to be the lamp searching our innermost parts. Peter denied Christ three times and felt miserable afterwards. His relationship was restored thankfully.

One judges scriptures as unreliable and another treasures them in their heart and looks to them as a light to light their path. I really do not know you but even if I did, it would not be me to ask if you or anyone is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. They should ask God Himself with a willingness to listen.

God is as close to us as our next breath and yet can seem far away from us. Read the Psalms to see David cry out to hear Him. Even David who was the apple of His eye did not hear Him at times.

Mocking God and belittling Him is a big offense though, IMO. God will not be mocked and the mocker will not get rewarded with His fellowship. It is silly to even think that you can mock God and not feel emptiness afterwards. I don't recall a time when David mocked God or belittled Him in anyway. Maybe I am wrong, I don't have any recollection of that though. The good news is that a relationship can be restored.

No, I do not believe that the Bible is God. What gives you that idea? I believe that it is God's word inerrant in the original condition and I see it as a blessing, not a curse, heaven forbid. Keep in mind that the Bible reveals God's character more and more as it continues through history. We know more about Him at the end of the book than we know about Him in the beginning of the book.

When man cannot grasp it to their satisfaction I believe that it would wiser to assume that if the fullness of God's intention for the passage were truly known and complete understanding was given that man would trust the God of the Bible more not less. We are soooooo small and sooooo limited. I came across this link:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12822372/The-Character-of-God-Upload

You might enjoy it especially the part about what C.S. Lewis shares about the barnacle's perspective on man.

Just some thoughts about the virgin daughter being discussed here…God looks at the heart. Perhaps God allowed the sacrifice (if indeed the daughter was killed) because He recognized a heart that chose faithfulness to honor a vow to God over his most prized possession, his daughter, and a heart in the daughter that chose a willingness to lose her life in order to honor her father's faithfulness toward God. We must remember, to lose our life is to gain, perhaps the daughter and father had that hope. It is a hard concept to know by experience but one to know by faith. Not all will gain after their life is gone though.

Matt 10:37-39

37 ” He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 “And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 ” He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.
NASU

I know that I don't recall the story from my own study but from just what I have read here recently, I always trust God to know best. As the other verses, that I wrote to you in a previous post, say that God abhors human sacrifice as a practice.

Be encouraged Tim, the God of the Bible is personally involved with our lives even when we do not recognize that or deserve it, that is what mercy is…undeserved. He is a loving, just and forgiving Father with a Son that covers us with His own blood. The Father sees what covers us and recognizes His adopted children and longs for our honor and fellowship even when we might stray.

I want you to read this remembering that I hardly know you and not to take this personally. It is just what I was led to write, these thoughts have been coming to me as I prayerfully sought to respond to you.

I hope you are encouraged and not discouraged in anyway for that is certainly not my intent. Trust Him

God bless,
Kathi

[charity]

Who Told you to expect a messiah?

You can't judge from the middle of a lie?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 27 2009,06:11)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 26 2009,06:30) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 25 2009,07:10) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2009,14:06) I recognize God's voice when I suddenly get a thought that seems to come “out of left field” so to say.  In other words, it isn't in the flow of my natural thoughts although it might be an answer to my natural thoughts.  I usually think “wow, I wouldn't have thought of that” after I receive His direction.   At other times I will be thinking of something kinda out of the blue and after a little while, someone will suggest I do this or that which will be the exact thing that I had been thinking about earlier.  I believe that the Lord goes before us in that way sometimes. I test those thoughts to see if they would line up with scripture and the character of God.  Condemming thoughts are not from Him.  We are to take every thought captive. Lightenup They say truth is stranger than fiction, and it is so often the case that we could not make up some of the discoveries we make, or even some of the predicaments our fellow humans get themselves into. Now consider the nature of the Judeo-christian scripture.  The OT is chiefly composed of tedious genealogies, unremarkable 'prophecy' that is waiting for self-fulfilment and the odd smiting that adds up to maybe 32,000,000 humans slaughtered.  The NT is full of Paul and the Johns spinning their dull conservative philosophy and generally telling people to do things their way or pleading to be taken seriously, on pain of damnation.  There is actually nothing in there that is really 'left-field', no commentary or philosophy that strikes one as particularly insightful, showing any novel way of thinking that is outside the standard daily transactions of the mass population.  It is dull, not-strange fiction. So when you think “wow, I wouldn't have thought of that” why would you think to compare that to dull, predictable scripture?  The two are incompatible. Stuart To some the Bible is a book that has no life and is carelessly handled and respected.  To others it is this: Heb 4:12-13 12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. NASU If you think that scripture isn't powerful you ought to read through the posts here and see how they can convict the reader which often leads either to humility and life or nasty responses from the inner darkness even among so called believers.  It really is like a sword that can illuminate the thoughts and intentions of the heart. LU I didn't say it wasn't powerful.  Anaesthetic has a powerful effect on humans too. There are many in the world who have turned away from christian belief because they had increased exposure to scripture and were seized by the need to wake up and try to reconcile it with what they could see about them, the failing due to the failings of scripture on so many points. Why should a book that is wrong about physical science and wrong about human nature be convincing to anyone? Stuart

The power of the scriptures in incomparable to the power of an anesthetic. How long would you participate in a message board about anesthesia, hmmm?

Many are coming to Christ. He provides the way to the only God that is a Father to His followers, one that gives freedom to choose to follow or not or to even follow their false god. Have you noticed how many Moslems have moved to America? The United States has religious freedom because of the Christian faith. Any religion can come here and build their mosque or temple and not have to fear imprisonment as well as gather together without fear of persecution. Christians do not have those freedoms if they live in Moslem countries.

The God of Christ is a loving and patient Father longing for all to know Him.

LU

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