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Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 20 2008,02:19) Quote (kejonn @ June 20 2008,12:21) Here's an oddity: Gen 7:2 Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate
Now, how did Noah know which animals were clean and unclean? They were not “defined” until Leviticus 11!
Not really that odd Kevin. YHWH wasn't annotating brand new rules for Israel in Lev. 11, he was codifying what was already known by them, being passed down by oral tradition from Adam….
Ah, the “argument from silence” angle, eh?Since the “Bible Trivia” thread is not a debate thread, I will answer Not3in1's post in here.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 15 2008,15:22) Quote (kejonn @ July 14 2008,23:44)
See, an atheist guessing knows the true nature of Yahweh. Sure, take whatever points you like
.1Sa 6:19 He struck down some of the men of Beth-shemesh because they had looked into the ark of the LORD. He struck down of all the people, 50,070 men, and the people mourned because the LORD had struck the people with a great slaughter.
So basically your beef is not with God, it's with the people who wrote the bible and made up all this stuff?Perhaps, but can we truly say they knew a true god at all with behavior such as this?
Quote OK. But what if they didn't make it all up? What if God really is sort-of human-like and has killed, gets angry, jealous and all the humanistic characteristics that are attributed to him? What if he hates homo's and will send someone to a burning hell for adultery? What if…… If in the end this is all true of God, do you want nothing to do with this God? Or would you rather go back and try to learn to live with and understand this God? That's an odd line of reasoning. I cannot accept that the one who set the laws of the universe in motion would behave like a spoiled teenager or a boss from the 1900s.
But if this god did exist in this fashion, no, I'd want nothing to do with him. Any god that uses fear of his wrath as a means to keep his people in line is a ruthless tyrant and not worthy of following, certainly not worthy of worship.
Quote Remember we are the creation, he is the Creator (even as you understand creation). Do we really get to say how and what are Creator is like? Do you want to accept such a being as the one who created all?
Quote As kids, do we get to choose our parents? Some of us have had gloriously gifted childhoods while other's of us have been neglected and abused. When we are old enough we can disown our parents, but they have still given us life. The old saying is true, “You can run but you cannot hide.” And a favorite of mine, “It is – what it is.” Yes, but we can leave bad parents behind if we choose to do so, often with little repercussions. So while they were responsible for our life, that does not give them the right to abuse us.
Quote The reason I bring this up is because I understand that you are not happy with the Yahweh God and his story, so you are searching for another story that you do like that explains God. You will find one you like – there are scads out there for the picking. But in the end, won't you have just created your own version of a God that you like and is acceptable to you? What kind of God is that? And does he have any power? And can you trust HIM? And is he anymore true and real than Yahweh? How will you know? If you had been brought up in another part of the world that had very little Christian influence, then you might be saying the exact same thing about the god of whatever religion you grew up to know. If it was Saudi Arabia, you might be saying the same of Allah. If India, Brahman. There are a multitude of other gods you might have know had you been born in raise in another environment.
Thus, what you seem to be saying is, go with the first god you know and stick with him/her. If that god eventually becomes something you can no longer worship, tough. That's your god.
Quote The questions continue from here and never stop. Love,
MandySorry Mandy, but all gods are the product of the culture and societies that formed them. A true God is not really as knowable as most religions would have him/her. If the bible is true, where are the burning bushes, the pillar of clouds, the plagues, the passovers, the healings, the resurrections, etc.? Why is all you have about your god come from an ancient book? Is that god even alive anymore?
No, the reason that books like the bible are not written anymore is because modern men are just not as superstitious anymore. In the age of 24 hour news and Youtube, the various gods don't seem to be much into the miracle business anymore. The best we get nowadays is images in toast and cornflakes that sell on Ebay.
Jesus said he was going to return before the generation passed. He didn't, and that is partially why it took so long for the various New Testament works to come out. No one thought any of it needed to be recorded because they would all be going to heaven very soon. But as time passed, his followers realized it may not be in their lifetimes, so they needed to pass on the various legends of this personality. And you can see the apologetics at work — Paul's earlier works revealed the time was soon, but the later ones played this theme down. And Peter used the “a thousand years as one day” as another excuse.
So if you don't like the fact that the idea of Yahweh does not suit me, fine. It is my life and my decision. You have come to accept Yahweh, with all of his atrocious characteristics, and that is fine for you. Just because I believe one thing and you believe another does not believe any of it is true. It just means that is what we have come to accept. You can see why atheists don't accept any of it.
As time passes and men uncover more secrets through science and technology, I think you're going to see religion play less and less of a role in societies. The bible itself holds up poorly against science, and it takes willful ignorance to deny this. The bible is what it is: a record of the beliefs of a certain people during a range of time. It is an imaginative work of men who knew very little of how the universe worked, so they replaced this knowledge with speculation and imagination.
Hi Kevin,
After reading your post I think the thread that I chose for us to debate in (after moving my post from the Trivia thread), the “Losing Faith” thread is more appropriate. You've lost faith in God altogether. Even a God you will find that suits you will have one heck of a time convincing you of much, if anything at all.
Kevin, your adopted belief system is missing one thing – the personal testimony of believer's. You think that the bible is flawed and that is the only way that you can know God – you're wrong there, bro. God is living. God still inspires. God still speaks….
Do you know that I met God long before I was old enough to read or even know that there was a bible? Was this just the universe communicating with my soul? As for the miracles, resurrections and so on…..I've seen a few. I've experienced a few miracles that (and I know this stumps Stu) cannot be explained by even medical professionals. Resurrections? I've seen a few. Have you heard of CPR?
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 15 2008,16:04) Hi Kevin, After reading your post I think the thread that I chose for us to debate in (after moving my post from the Trivia thread), the “Losing Faith” thread is more appropriate. You've lost faith in God altogether. Even a God you will find that suits you will have one heck of a time convincing you of much, if anything at all.
Kevin, your adopted belief system is missing one thing – the personal testimony of believer's. You think that the bible is flawed and that is the only way that you can know God – you're wrong there, bro. God is living. God still inspires. God still speaks….
Do you know that I met God long before I was old enough to read or even know that there was a bible? Was this just the universe communicating with my soul? As for the miracles, resurrections and so on…..I've seen a few. I've experienced a few miracles that (and I know this stumps Stu) cannot be explained by even medical professionals. Resurrections? I've seen a few. Have you heard of CPR?
I will respond in kind in the appropriate thread then.Quote (epistemaniac @ July 15 2008,16:05) kejonn, since your mind is made up, why are you here? Looking for converts? Proselytizing?
Because I believe that the view of Christianity — that so many people will be doomed to hell for failing to believe in something that really has no supportable evidence — is detrimental. Because too often people use ancient beliefs as a reason to hate certain people, such as homosexuals. Because Christians aren't often for freedom of religion, but rather freedom of only one religion: Christianity.No, I don't want converts. Conversion is an unnecessary process, one separates people in yet another way. We already have people who hate others on the basis of race, sex, or nationality, why do we need more reasons to hate each other?
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