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Is this genocide?
Deu 7:1 “When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga****es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you,
Deu 7:2 and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.Deu 20:16 “Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes.
Jos 10:40 Thus Joshua struck all the land, the hill country and the Negev and the lowland and the slopes and all their kings. He left no survivor, but he utterly destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.
Jos 10:41 Joshua struck them from Kadesh-barnea even as far as Gaza, and all the country of Goshen even as far as Gibeon.From http://www.answers.com/topic/genocide
- genocide
(jĕn'ə-sīd')n. – The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.There are a few of us here who are studying the OT and trying to make sense of the God protrayed there, and the God introduced in the NT. We are struggling.
Mainly because it's the same God and it is hard to reconcile the two.
Quote (kejonn @ June 01 2008,01:31) Is this genocide? Deu 7:1 “When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girga****es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you,
Deu 7:2 and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.Deu 20:16 “Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes.
Jos 10:40 Thus Joshua struck all the land, the hill country and the Negev and the lowland and the slopes and all their kings. He left no survivor, but he utterly destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.
Jos 10:41 Joshua struck them from Kadesh-barnea even as far as Gaza, and all the country of Goshen even as far as Gibeon.From http://www.answers.com/topic/genocide
- genocide
(jĕn'ə-sīd')n. – The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.
Hi KJIt looks like it! YHWH giveth and YHWH taketh away.
Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou? Job 9:12
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2008,03:24) [ It looks like it! YHWH giveth and YHWH taketh away.
Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou? Job 9:12
If God commands us not to kill, shouldn't we be allowed to ask him “what doest thou” when he tells us to kill?How confused God leaves us.
Tim
Tim,
I think the dried ink has left us confused.
The Spirit shines through the darkness though. We can find our way if we believe what we have not seen. Especially if we lean not unto our own understanding….this is what I have shared with my son.
I tell him to look around – look at God's creation and decide for yourself what kind of God he is. He's beautiful, wonderous, loving to us to give us rain and food. What we can see helps us to confirm what we feel in our spirit.
God speaks beyond the dried ink!
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 01 2008,05:39) Tim, I think the dried ink has left us confused.
The Spirit shines through the darkness though. We can find our way if we believe what we have not seen. Especially if we lean not unto our own understanding….this is what I have shared with my son.
I tell him to look around – look at God's creation and decide for yourself what kind of God he is. He's beautiful, wonderous, loving to us to give us rain and food. What we can see helps us to confirm what we feel in our spirit.
God speaks beyond the dried ink!
Hi Mandy:I've had to read the last few chapters of the book of Job many a time.
Quote (942767 @ June 01 2008,07:18) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 01 2008,05:39) Tim, I think the dried ink has left us confused.
The Spirit shines through the darkness though. We can find our way if we believe what we have not seen. Especially if we lean not unto our own understanding….this is what I have shared with my son.
I tell him to look around – look at God's creation and decide for yourself what kind of God he is. He's beautiful, wonderous, loving to us to give us rain and food. What we can see helps us to confirm what we feel in our spirit.
God speaks beyond the dried ink!
Hi Mandy:I've had to read the last few chapters of the book of Job many a time.
I agree. There are many books that I read and think, “Wow. You've got to be kidding me.”.Even today as I am painting my daughter's furniture outside (it's a beautiful day today), I take breaks and look up to the blue sky and ask, “Father, are you really still that mad like you were in the OT? If it wasn't for Jesus, would you still like to cream us all out?”. It makes me feel bad that God seemed so brutal and angry all the time at his creation.
But maybe the stories are not entirely true? I don't know for certain, we cannot know. We can only trust and wait for further instructions.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 01 2008,12:56) Quote (942767 @ June 01 2008,07:18) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 01 2008,05:39) Tim, I think the dried ink has left us confused.
The Spirit shines through the darkness though. We can find our way if we believe what we have not seen. Especially if we lean not unto our own understanding….this is what I have shared with my son.
I tell him to look around – look at God's creation and decide for yourself what kind of God he is. He's beautiful, wonderous, loving to us to give us rain and food. What we can see helps us to confirm what we feel in our spirit.
God speaks beyond the dried ink!
Hi Mandy:I've had to read the last few chapters of the book of Job many a time.
I agree. There are many books that I read and think, “Wow. You've got to be kidding me.”.Even today as I am painting my daughter's furniture outside (it's a beautiful day today), I take breaks and look up to the blue sky and ask, “Father, are you really still that mad like you were in the OT? If it wasn't for Jesus, would you still like to cream us all out?”. It makes me feel bad that God seemed so brutal and angry all the time at his creation.
But maybe the stories are not entirely true? I don't know for certain, we cannot know. We can only trust and wait for further instructions.
Hi Mandy:Even though I may not understand in every circumstance I know that God is righteous in all that He does, and that He is at least a little wiser than I.
And so, He asks Job who did not understand, “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
I can assure you that God's purpose for mankind is their salvation from the consequence of sin. Sometimes, we are a little hard headed and fail to see that whatever He asks of us is for our benefit.
In Job, it appears that Yahweh converses directly with Job. Why then is prayer a one-sided conversation if Yahweh takes the time to talk to Job?
Quote (kejonn @ June 02 2008,20:41) In Job, it appears that Yahweh converses directly with Job. Why then is prayer a one-sided conversation if Yahweh takes the time to talk to Job?
He takes the time to talk to me also, Kevin.However things are done through His Spirit now versus booming voices from heaven. There are drugs out there now for people who hear voices……..
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 02 2008,10:01) Quote (kejonn @ June 02 2008,20:41) In Job, it appears that Yahweh converses directly with Job. Why then is prayer a one-sided conversation if Yahweh takes the time to talk to Job?
He takes the time to talk to me also, Kevin.However things are done through His Spirit now versus booming voices from heaven. There are drugs out there now for people who hear voices……..
But couldn't one acheive the same results via mediation? That's basically what prayer is in some sense. That, and a feeling that matters are out of your hand per se if you place them in some deity's hands.But I think it is a little dishonest to make excuses about why the god you worship (I say this for the sake of other faith groups who may read this) does not speak to you in the same manner as he did in the various religious texts. Did the god change? If he did not, then you are saying that those in the texts were more spiritual than people today, thus degrading yourself without good reason.
There is really nothing wrong with prayer, but beyond the serenity and inspiration it provides, there are no discernable real world results to prayer. I know many would disagree but they would do so with pleas to the various miracles that have been the result of such prayers. In return, I would ask if same said miracles have not happened to peoples of other religions or no religion at all.
To me, prayer is a way to focus on the divine and seek guidance. As you said, no audible results, but I think it allows us to clear our minds of other things and focus on the subject(s) of any prayer. This in turn allows us to receive some sort of inspiration on how to proceed.
Still, how often have you felt inspired to do something and found out you were wrong? And when you found out, how quick were you to blame yourself and say you didn't have faith, or you asked for the wrong thing, or whatever?
Here's an example: how many times have you heard that you should pray about financial decisions before making them? When you do so, do you think it is a god guiding you to make the decision, or the fact that in the process of praying about it, you are analyzing the situation — even if subconsciously — rather than just making a rash choice? Thus, you may desire to buy a new car but the inspiration of prayer gives you a strong feeling not to. Is that a god telling you, or your own sense overcoming your impulsive desires?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 03 2008,03:01) Quote (kejonn @ June 02 2008,20:41) In Job, it appears that Yahweh converses directly with Job. Why then is prayer a one-sided conversation if Yahweh takes the time to talk to Job?
He takes the time to talk to me also, Kevin.However things are done through His Spirit now versus booming voices from heaven. There are drugs out there now for people who hear voices……..
Hi Mandy:I agree with you that God still answers prayer, and although some people think that if God speaks to you in an audible voice you are dillusional and need a psychiatrist, but God has spoken to me in an audible voice, through visions, through dreams, through pastors, through prophets and through his Word. He also has spoken and does speak by granting what I asked in prayer.
The conversation in Job was not “one sided” Job had been speaking throughout but now it was God's turn to speak in the last chapters where he spoke to Job.
God Bless
Hi KJ:
I misunderstood you about the following verse I thought you were saying prayer here was one sided. Please forgive me.
Quote The conversation in Job was not “one sided” Job had been speaking throughout but now it was God's turn to speak in the last chapters where he spoke to Job. Hi KJ,
Quote But I think it is a little dishonest to make excuses about why the god you worship (I say this for the sake of other faith groups who may read this) does not speak to you in the same manner as he did in the various religious texts. Did the god change?
God didn't change, but his manner of communicating with his Creation did according to the bible. He used to speak through the prophets, then he spoke through his Son. Today he speaks through the Spirit that is within each believer.Quote In return, I would ask if same said miracles have not happened to peoples of other religions or no religion at all.
I'm not totally sure I understand the point you are trying to make here, but I think you are correct in that miracles happen to folks of other religions. After all there is only One God, but he may have a few different names (we won't know for sure until that Day). Quote Still, how often have you felt inspired to do something and found out you were wrong?
This has happened to me a few times and it's always a tad embrassing. But you know, we are just kids. Sometimes we don't hear correctly or sometimes our pride gets in the way? I really don't know. But God does speak. We need to practice hearing his voice.Quote Thus, you may desire to buy a new car but the inspiration of prayer gives you a strong feeling not to. Is that a god telling you, or your own sense overcoming your impulsive desires?
I have had times when God told me not to go here or do that…..and later found out that there was a very good reason for it! Who knows, Kevin. All we can do is trust and do our best not to get bitter and angry when we don't understand everything.Love ya bro,
MandyPerhaps the conflict of how we feel about God in our hearts and how he is portrayed in the OT comes from the fact that one of them is wrong. Either our spirits lie to us in our views that God is primal love, without flaw and cares for all creation or the OT is flawed. My view is that the OT is flawed.
As far as prayer, I have at times had results that seemed to be external to my consciousness, now whether this is God, one of his intermediaries, or a delusion of my own subconcious, I can't say for sure, but if it was my own subconscious it has some remarkable powers I was not aware of.
Quote (Cato @ June 04 2008,23:39) Perhaps the conflict of how we feel about God in our hearts and how he is portrayed in the OT comes from the fact that one of them is wrong. Either our spirits lie to us in our views that God is primal love, without flaw and cares for all creation or the OT is flawed. My view is that the OT is flawed.
Amen cato.Tim
Quote (942767 @ June 03 2008,10:16) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 03 2008,03:01) Quote (kejonn @ June 02 2008,20:41) In Job, it appears that Yahweh converses directly with Job. Why then is prayer a one-sided conversation if Yahweh takes the time to talk to Job?
He takes the time to talk to me also, Kevin.However things are done through His Spirit now versus booming voices from heaven. There are drugs out there now for people who hear voices……..
Hi Mandy:I agree with you that God still answers prayer, and although some people think that if God speaks to you in an audible voice you are dillusional and need a psychiatrist, but God has spoken to me in an audible voice, through visions, through dreams, through pastors, through prophets and through his Word. He also has spoken and does speak by granting what I asked in prayer.
The conversation in Job was not “one sided” Job had been speaking throughout but now it was God's turn to speak in the last chapters where he spoke to Job.
God Bless
I think you are delusional. I don't think you have been the beneficiary of anything that has not been also 'granted' (without prayer) to non-believers. You are bluffing. Your bible tells you that you cannot hear or see god (apart from the parts that say you can!).You are entitled to your fantasy, as we all are.
Stuart
Here's an oddity:
Gen 7:2 Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate
Now, how did Noah know which animals were clean and unclean? They were not “defined” until Leviticus 11!
Hey Kevin,
Sometimes it is comical here, I agree with you. Sometimes I just shake my head and smile at certain ones…. I even laugh at myself every now and then. But for the most part I think we are all still trying to learn more about God and the bible. It's a huge undertaking to want to know who God is. It takes time and many questions….So don't lurk – contribute! I've been reading many of your past posts that have helped me recently. And plus, I can't log onto your site anymore? I never did figure it out.
Love,
MandyQuote (kejonn @ June 20 2008,12:21) Here's an oddity: Gen 7:2 Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate
Now, how did Noah know which animals were clean and unclean? They were not “defined” until Leviticus 11!
Not really that odd Kevin. YHWH wasn't annotating brand new rules for Israel in Lev. 11, he was codifying what was already known by them, being passed down by oral tradition from Adam….
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