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Hi All:
Trying to see if there is an explantion for the passage of Elisha cursing the children, and the only thing that I can find is that they were apparently more like teenage youths. I don't know if this makes a difference. It is difficult to understand.
The YLT states:
Quote 2Ki 2:23 And he goeth up thence to Beth-El, and he is going up in the way, and little youths have come out from the city, and scoff at him, and say to him, `Go up, bald-head! go up, bald-head!'
2Ki 2:24 And he looketh behind him, and seeth them, and declareth them vile in the name of Jehovah, and two bears come out of the forest, and rend of them forty and two lads.The following is copied from a bible commentary by Pastor Chuck Smith from the blue letter bible website:
Quote Now as he was going up from Jericho to Bethel, there came forth (2Ki 2:23) And it's translated “little children” and this gives you the wrong concept. You see a bunch of little kids, you know, six, seven years old crying, “Hey, you old baldhead, where you going, baldhead?” But the Hebrew language actually indicates more of a teenage and late teenage than just a child. A little child, these were rotten little boys, and they're teenagers mocking the prophet of God.
And he looked back on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD (2Ki 2:24).Now, it's hard to understand why he would do that except that there was a great irreverence for a man of God
Other than what Pastor Chuck Smith indicates, I don't have the anwer for this one. Difficult to understand Elisha's response. The Apostle Paul had a similar incident but his response was not as severe:
Quote Act 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 21 2008,07:25) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2008,06:44) but they did not believe Noah, just as many do not believe the gospel today and will not repent, and will consequently, be destroyed in God's judgment of the wicked.
Brother, again, your theology leaves no room for, “Forgive them for they no not what they do.”When Jesus asked that his Father forgive the “wicked” people for they know not what they were doing…..do you think God heard his prayer?
These “wicked” folks had the opportunity to hear Jesus' message and yet did not accept it. Jesus asked God to forgive them because they didn't know what they were refusing.
Hi Mandy:Yes, Jesus asked God his father to forgive those who refused his message and crucified him and Stephen when he was stoned to death also asked God to forgive those who killed him as well. The Apostle Paul was a party to Stephen's death, and the God did forgive him when he repented.
There were some who were a party to crucifying Jesus who also were forgiven when they repented.
Quote Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,13:44) Quote (kejonn @ April 20 2008,16:06) Here's another thought: if Yahweh had the power to create and destroy, why was the flood necessary? After all, if it was the wicked humans he wanted to kill, why not spread a plague that only attacked humans? Why create a flood that killed animals and plant life as well? What was the purpose of killing organisms outside of human life?
Hi KJ:As you say God only wanted to destroy wicked humans, not all humans, and Noah and his family were saved by the Ark. While the ark was under construction the wicked had a chance to repent and be spared from destruction, but they did not believe Noah, just as many do not believe the gospel today and will not repent, and will consequently, be destroyed in God's judgment of the wicked.
Quote Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Could Noah preach to all the inhabitants of the earth?Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:13) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,13:44) Quote (kejonn @ April 20 2008,16:06) Here's another thought: if Yahweh had the power to create and destroy, why was the flood necessary? After all, if it was the wicked humans he wanted to kill, why not spread a plague that only attacked humans? Why create a flood that killed animals and plant life as well? What was the purpose of killing organisms outside of human life?
Hi KJ:As you say God only wanted to destroy wicked humans, not all humans, and Noah and his family were saved by the Ark. While the ark was under construction the wicked had a chance to repent and be spared from destruction, but they did not believe Noah, just as many do not believe the gospel today and will not repent, and will consequently, be destroyed in God's judgment of the wicked.
Quote Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Could Noah preach to all the inhabitants of the earth?
Hi KJ:I would think that the news of someone building an ark as big as this one would certainly reach the people. What do you think?
Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,14:56) Why don't you look at this as the opportunity to obey God and teach your children God's principles so that they won't be destroyed. The children are your responsibility.
Yes, that's always a great tactic. “Do as this book says, or Yahweh will destroy you”.Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,16:17) Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:13) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,13:44) Quote (kejonn @ April 20 2008,16:06) Here's another thought: if Yahweh had the power to create and destroy, why was the flood necessary? After all, if it was the wicked humans he wanted to kill, why not spread a plague that only attacked humans? Why create a flood that killed animals and plant life as well? What was the purpose of killing organisms outside of human life?
Hi KJ:As you say God only wanted to destroy wicked humans, not all humans, and Noah and his family were saved by the Ark. While the ark was under construction the wicked had a chance to repent and be spared from destruction, but they did not believe Noah, just as many do not believe the gospel today and will not repent, and will consequently, be destroyed in God's judgment of the wicked.
Quote Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Could Noah preach to all the inhabitants of the earth?
Hi KJ:I would think that the news of someone building an ark as big as this one would certainly reach the people. What do you think?
Of the whole earth? Not hardly. They didn't have CNN and the Internet back then 94.Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,15:32) Hi All: Trying to see if there is an explantion for the passage of Elisha cursing the children, and the only thing that I can find is that they were apparently more like teenage youths. I don't know if this makes a difference. It is difficult to understand.
The YLT states:
Quote 2Ki 2:23 And he goeth up thence to Beth-El, and he is going up in the way, and little youths have come out from the city, and scoff at him, and say to him, `Go up, bald-head! go up, bald-head!'
2Ki 2:24 And he looketh behind him, and seeth them, and declareth them vile in the name of Jehovah, and two bears come out of the forest, and rend of them forty and two lads.The following is copied from a bible commentary by Pastor Chuck Smith from the blue letter bible website:
Quote Now as he was going up from Jericho to Bethel, there came forth (2Ki 2:23) And it's translated “little children” and this gives you the wrong concept. You see a bunch of little kids, you know, six, seven years old crying, “Hey, you old baldhead, where you going, baldhead?” But the Hebrew language actually indicates more of a teenage and late teenage than just a child. A little child, these were rotten little boys, and they're teenagers mocking the prophet of God.
And he looked back on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD (2Ki 2:24).Now, it's hard to understand why he would do that except that there was a great irreverence for a man of God
Other than what Pastor Chuck Smith indicates, I don't have the anwer for this one. Difficult to understand Elisha's response. The Apostle Paul had a similar incident but his response was not as severe:
Quote Act 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
(picture balances and weighing) Let's see, casting a spirit out of a person vs having bears kill 42 teens, not even comparable. If I were you I'd just leave this one be and realize that there is no good answer for this one.Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:22) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,15:32) Hi All: Trying to see if there is an explantion for the passage of Elisha cursing the children, and the only thing that I can find is that they were apparently more like teenage youths. I don't know if this makes a difference. It is difficult to understand.
The YLT states:
Quote 2Ki 2:23 And he goeth up thence to Beth-El, and he is going up in the way, and little youths have come out from the city, and scoff at him, and say to him, `Go up, bald-head! go up, bald-head!'
2Ki 2:24 And he looketh behind him, and seeth them, and declareth them vile in the name of Jehovah, and two bears come out of the forest, and rend of them forty and two lads.The following is copied from a bible commentary by Pastor Chuck Smith from the blue letter bible website:
Quote Now as he was going up from Jericho to Bethel, there came forth (2Ki 2:23) And it's translated “little children” and this gives you the wrong concept. You see a bunch of little kids, you know, six, seven years old crying, “Hey, you old baldhead, where you going, baldhead?” But the Hebrew language actually indicates more of a teenage and late teenage than just a child. A little child, these were rotten little boys, and they're teenagers mocking the prophet of God.
And he looked back on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD (2Ki 2:24).Now, it's hard to understand why he would do that except that there was a great irreverence for a man of God
Other than what Pastor Chuck Smith indicates, I don't have the anwer for this one. Difficult to understand Elisha's response. The Apostle Paul had a similar incident but his response was not as severe:
Quote Act 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
(picture balances and weighing) Let's see, casting a spirit out of a person vs having bears kill 42 teens, not even comparable. If I were you I'd just leave this one be and realize that there is no good answer for this one.
No, KJ, this is a difficult one to answer, but I know that you have made up your mind and if there were an answer, it would not never be suffiecient to satisfy you.Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:18) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,14:56) Why don't you look at this as the opportunity to obey God and teach your children God's principles so that they won't be destroyed. The children are your responsibility.
Yes, that's always a great tactic. “Do as this book says, or Yahweh will destroy you”.
Hi Kj:And the sad thing, is that Mandy will probably listen to you rather than to what Jesus has said to all of humanity.
Quote Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.And, Jesus warned us of those who will come to deceive us, and so, whosover will heed this warning let him take heed.
Quote Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:19) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,16:17) Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:13) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,13:44) Quote (kejonn @ April 20 2008,16:06) Here's another thought: if Yahweh had the power to create and destroy, why was the flood necessary? After all, if it was the wicked humans he wanted to kill, why not spread a plague that only attacked humans? Why create a flood that killed animals and plant life as well? What was the purpose of killing organisms outside of human life?
Hi KJ:As you say God only wanted to destroy wicked humans, not all humans, and Noah and his family were saved by the Ark. While the ark was under construction the wicked had a chance to repent and be spared from destruction, but they did not believe Noah, just as many do not believe the gospel today and will not repent, and will consequently, be destroyed in God's judgment of the wicked.
Quote Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Could Noah preach to all the inhabitants of the earth?
Hi KJ:I would think that the news of someone building an ark as big as this one would certainly reach the people. What do you think?
Of the whole earth? Not hardly. They didn't have CNN and the Internet back then 94.
Maybe they didn't have CNN but it did take a year or two for him to build the ark. I believe they would have heard.Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,16:35) Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:22)
(picture balances and weighing) Let's see, casting a spirit out of a person vs having bears kill 42 teens, not even comparable. If I were you I'd just leave this one be and realize that there is no good answer for this one.
No, KJ, this is a difficult one to answer, but I know that you have made up your mind and if there were an answer, it would not never be suffiecient to satisfy you.
That's not correct 94. There is no good answer to the Elijah, 2 bears, and 42 dead teens story. Just like Samson killing 1000 men with the jawbone of a donkey.Quote (942767 @ April 21 2008,09:35) Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:22) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,15:32) Hi All: Trying to see if there is an explantion for the passage of Elisha cursing the children, and the only thing that I can find is that they were apparently more like teenage youths. I don't know if this makes a difference. It is difficult to understand.
The YLT states:
Quote 2Ki 2:23 And he goeth up thence to Beth-El, and he is going up in the way, and little youths have come out from the city, and scoff at him, and say to him, `Go up, bald-head! go up, bald-head!'
2Ki 2:24 And he looketh behind him, and seeth them, and declareth them vile in the name of Jehovah, and two bears come out of the forest, and rend of them forty and two lads.The following is copied from a bible commentary by Pastor Chuck Smith from the blue letter bible website:
Quote Now as he was going up from Jericho to Bethel, there came forth (2Ki 2:23) And it's translated “little children” and this gives you the wrong concept. You see a bunch of little kids, you know, six, seven years old crying, “Hey, you old baldhead, where you going, baldhead?” But the Hebrew language actually indicates more of a teenage and late teenage than just a child. A little child, these were rotten little boys, and they're teenagers mocking the prophet of God.
And he looked back on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD (2Ki 2:24).Now, it's hard to understand why he would do that except that there was a great irreverence for a man of God
Other than what Pastor Chuck Smith indicates, I don't have the anwer for this one. Difficult to understand Elisha's response. The Apostle Paul had a similar incident but his response was not as severe:
Quote Act 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
(picture balances and weighing) Let's see, casting a spirit out of a person vs having bears kill 42 teens, not even comparable. If I were you I'd just leave this one be and realize that there is no good answer for this one.
No, KJ, this is a difficult one to answer, but I know that you have made up your mind and if there were an answer, it would not never be suffiecient to satisfy you.
As I listen in on these discussions, I find that Kevin brings a very good question and it's answered by excuses. Or examples that do not compare. No offense, brother 94, it's just the way I see it.I also have seen this with Tow and other's who have brought questions that could not be answered. They are met by those who are dogmatic in their faith and will not falter from scripture even when it appears that scripture is in error. Or at the very least, terrible in it's responses.
With regard to this senerio and the teenagers – there is no excuse for what is written and is now dried ink. No excuse. Why do you believe it? What convinces you to embrace this? Fear?
I mean, come on, cursing little kids/teenager's because they showed “irreverence for a man of God”? Spare me! You must see this as an excuse to keep believing the “Word of God”?
94, at least you admit this is hard to understand. You are always great that way – not coming off knowing everything. But I ask, as one who is listening and comparing, can you not see that there is something wrong with this?
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 21 2008,10:22) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2008,09:35) Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:22) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,15:32) Hi All: Trying to see if there is an explantion for the passage of Elisha cursing the children, and the only thing that I can find is that they were apparently more like teenage youths. I don't know if this makes a difference. It is difficult to understand.
The YLT states:
Quote 2Ki 2:23 And he goeth up thence to Beth-El, and he is going up in the way, and little youths have come out from the city, and scoff at him, and say to him, `Go up, bald-head! go up, bald-head!'
2Ki 2:24 And he looketh behind him, and seeth them, and declareth them vile in the name of Jehovah, and two bears come out of the forest, and rend of them forty and two lads.The following is copied from a bible commentary by Pastor Chuck Smith from the blue letter bible website:
Quote Now as he was going up from Jericho to Bethel, there came forth (2Ki 2:23) And it's translated “little children” and this gives you the wrong concept. You see a bunch of little kids, you know, six, seven years old crying, “Hey, you old baldhead, where you going, baldhead?” But the Hebrew language actually indicates more of a teenage and late teenage than just a child. A little child, these were rotten little boys, and they're teenagers mocking the prophet of God.
And he looked back on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD (2Ki 2:24).Now, it's hard to understand why he would do that except that there was a great irreverence for a man of God
Other than what Pastor Chuck Smith indicates, I don't have the anwer for this one. Difficult to understand Elisha's response. The Apostle Paul had a similar incident but his response was not as severe:
Quote Act 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
(picture balances and weighing) Let's see, casting a spirit out of a person vs having bears kill 42 teens, not even comparable. If I were you I'd just leave this one be and realize that there is no good answer for this one.
No, KJ, this is a difficult one to answer, but I know that you have made up your mind and if there were an answer, it would not never be suffiecient to satisfy you.
As I listen in on these discussions, I find that Kevin brings a very good question and it's answered by excuses. Or examples that do not compare. No offense, brother 94, it's just the way I see it.I also have seen this with Tow and other's who have brought questions that could not be answered. They are met by those who are dogmatic in their faith and will not falter from scripture even when it appears that scripture is in error. Or at the very least, terrible in it's responses.
With regard to this senerio and the teenagers – there is no excuse for what is written and is now dried ink. No excuse. Why do you believe it? What convinces you to embrace this? Fear?
I mean, come on, cursing little kids/teenager's because they showed “irreverence for a man of God”? Spare me! You must see this as an excuse to keep believing the “Word of God”?
94, at least you admit this is hard to understand. You are always great that way – not coming off knowing everything. But I ask, as one who is listening and comparing, can you not see that there is something wrong with this?
Hi Mandy:Kevin wanted someone to address these scriptures and I did my best to address the scriptures. I said that it appeared that Elisha's response seemed quite severe which is all I can say regarding this issue. I don't know the Hebrew language and so, I don't know if these were teenage youths or what. Nevertheless, I have said that I felt that this was response was quite severe.
It is certainly not right for someone to mock a man of God.
God says:
Quote 1Ch 16:22 [Saying], Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
Psa 105:15 [Saying], Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.Well said not3in1,
Holding TO,…. the danger of Religion is Insanity, and the evidence is the Insane behaviour Patterns.
And when questioned the insane are convince that reality needs to recive help?Poor children, ITS like…surviving with a monster LIVING under the bed….FEAR
Quote (942767 @ April 21 2008,10:39) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 21 2008,10:22) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2008,09:35) Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:22) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,15:32) Hi All: Trying to see if there is an explantion for the passage of Elisha cursing the children, and the only thing that I can find is that they were apparently more like teenage youths. I don't know if this makes a difference. It is difficult to understand.
The YLT states:
Quote 2Ki 2:23 And he goeth up thence to Beth-El, and he is going up in the way, and little youths have come out from the city, and scoff at him, and say to him, `Go up, bald-head! go up, bald-head!'
2Ki 2:24 And he looketh behind him, and seeth them, and declareth them vile in the name of Jehovah, and two bears come out of the forest, and rend of them forty and two lads.The following is copied from a bible commentary by Pastor Chuck Smith from the blue letter bible website:
Quote Now as he was going up from Jericho to Bethel, there came forth (2Ki 2:23) And it's translated “little children” and this gives you the wrong concept. You see a bunch of little kids, you know, six, seven years old crying, “Hey, you old baldhead, where you going, baldhead?” But the Hebrew language actually indicates more of a teenage and late teenage than just a child. A little child, these were rotten little boys, and they're teenagers mocking the prophet of God.
And he looked back on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD (2Ki 2:24).Now, it's hard to understand why he would do that except that there was a great irreverence for a man of God
Other than what Pastor Chuck Smith indicates, I don't have the anwer for this one. Difficult to understand Elisha's response. The Apostle Paul had a similar incident but his response was not as severe:
Quote Act 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
(picture balances and weighing) Let's see, casting a spirit out of a person vs having bears kill 42 teens, not even comparable. If I were you I'd just leave this one be and realize that there is no good answer for this one.
No, KJ, this is a difficult one to answer, but I know that you have made up your mind and if there were an answer, it would not never be suffiecient to satisfy you.
As I listen in on these discussions, I find that Kevin brings a very good question and it's answered by excuses. Or examples that do not compare. No offense, brother 94, it's just the way I see it.I also have seen this with Tow and other's who have brought questions that could not be answered. They are met by those who are dogmatic in their faith and will not falter from scripture even when it appears that scripture is in error. Or at the very least, terrible in it's responses.
With regard to this senerio and the teenagers – there is no excuse for what is written and is now dried ink. No excuse. Why do you believe it? What convinces you to embrace this? Fear?
I mean, come on, cursing little kids/teenager's because they showed “irreverence for a man of God”? Spare me! You must see this as an excuse to keep believing the “Word of God”?
94, at least you admit this is hard to understand. You are always great that way – not coming off knowing everything. But I ask, as one who is listening and comparing, can you not see that there is something wrong with this?
Hi Mandy:Kevin wanted someone to address these scriptures and I did my best to address the scriptures. I said that it appeared that Elisha's response seemed quite severe which is all I can say regarding this issue. I don't know the Hebrew language and so, I don't know if these were teenage youths or what. Nevertheless, I have said that I felt that this was response was quite severe.
It is certainly not right for someone to mock a man of God.
God says:
Quote 1Ch 16:22 [Saying], Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
Psa 105:15 [Saying], Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
I appreciate your response bro.But like your quoted verses say, “Don't touch my annointed and I will do you no harm.” My goodness, what if it said, “Touch my annointed and I'll curse your life so that you die.”
Basically that is what God supposedly meant. That is what happened. Is that OK?
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 21 2008,10:43) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2008,10:39) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 21 2008,10:22) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2008,09:35) Quote (kejonn @ April 21 2008,09:22) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,15:32) Hi All: Trying to see if there is an explantion for the passage of Elisha cursing the children, and the only thing that I can find is that they were apparently more like teenage youths. I don't know if this makes a difference. It is difficult to understand.
The YLT states:
Quote 2Ki 2:23 And he goeth up thence to Beth-El, and he is going up in the way, and little youths have come out from the city, and scoff at him, and say to him, `Go up, bald-head! go up, bald-head!'
2Ki 2:24 And he looketh behind him, and seeth them, and declareth them vile in the name of Jehovah, and two bears come out of the forest, and rend of them forty and two lads.The following is copied from a bible commentary by Pastor Chuck Smith from the blue letter bible website:
Quote Now as he was going up from Jericho to Bethel, there came forth (2Ki 2:23) And it's translated “little children” and this gives you the wrong concept. You see a bunch of little kids, you know, six, seven years old crying, “Hey, you old baldhead, where you going, baldhead?” But the Hebrew language actually indicates more of a teenage and late teenage than just a child. A little child, these were rotten little boys, and they're teenagers mocking the prophet of God.
And he looked back on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD (2Ki 2:24).Now, it's hard to understand why he would do that except that there was a great irreverence for a man of God
Other than what Pastor Chuck Smith indicates, I don't have the anwer for this one. Difficult to understand Elisha's response. The Apostle Paul had a similar incident but his response was not as severe:
Quote Act 16:16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
(picture balances and weighing) Let's see, casting a spirit out of a person vs having bears kill 42 teens, not even comparable. If I were you I'd just leave this one be and realize that there is no good answer for this one.
No, KJ, this is a difficult one to answer, but I know that you have made up your mind and if there were an answer, it would not never be suffiecient to satisfy you.
As I listen in on these discussions, I find that Kevin brings a very good question and it's answered by excuses. Or examples that do not compare. No offense, brother 94, it's just the way I see it.I also have seen this with Tow and other's who have brought questions that could not be answered. They are met by those who are dogmatic in their faith and will not falter from scripture even when it appears that scripture is in error. Or at the very least, terrible in it's responses.
With regard to this senerio and the teenagers – there is no excuse for what is written and is now dried ink. No excuse. Why do you believe it? What convinces you to embrace this? Fear?
I mean, come on, cursing little kids/teenager's because they showed “irreverence for a man of God”? Spare me! You must see this as an excuse to keep believing the “Word of God”?
94, at least you admit this is hard to understand. You are always great that way – not coming off knowing everything. But I ask, as one who is listening and comparing, can you not see that there is something wrong with this?
Hi Mandy:Kevin wanted someone to address these scriptures and I did my best to address the scriptures. I said that it appeared that Elisha's response seemed quite severe which is all I can say regarding this issue. I don't know the Hebrew language and so, I don't know if these were teenage youths or what. Nevertheless, I have said that I felt that this was response was quite severe.
It is certainly not right for someone to mock a man of God.
God says:
Quote 1Ch 16:22 [Saying], Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
Psa 105:15 [Saying], Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
I appreciate your response bro.But like your quoted verses say, “Don't touch my annointed and I will do you no harm.” My goodness, what if it said, “Touch my annointed and I'll curse your life so that you die.”
Basically that is what God supposedly meant. That is what happened. Is that OK?
Hi Mandy:I have already stated that I thought that Elisha's response was quite severe which is all that I can say.
Kevin wanted someone to address the scriptures and so I have done this to the best of my ability. I did not say I was trying justify Elisha's response. I was just trying to understand why he may have responded the way that he did.
God warned “not to touch his anointed or to do his prophets harm”. And so, I guess that you would agree that it is not right for someone to mock God or His prophets. If so, what do you think the penalty for this should be?
And to anyone who may have indicated that the reason I obey God is out of fear:
No, I do not need to fear God because I am in right standing with Him through my Lord Jesus. I obey Him because I love Him and appreciated what He has done for me and what he does for me on a continual basis. The priniciples that He has taught me for living my life I have tried to apply to my life because I find that He has taught me these because He loves me and wants the very best for me. What Father would not want the very best for His child?
I can say that God was angry with me in one point of my walk with Him, and no, I can assure you that I don't want Him angry with me. I call that RESPECT and WISDOM. You can call it what you want.
Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,18:51) Hi Mandy: I have already stated that I thought that Elisha's response was quite severe which is all that I can say.
Kevin wanted someone to address the scriptures and so I have done this to the best of my ability. I did not say I was trying justify Elisha's response. I was just trying to understand why he may have responded the way that he did.
Did Yahweh have to honor the curse? did Yahweh send the bears, or did Yahweh? Its less about Elisha's — a human — response and all about what Yahweh supposedly did. Yahweh, as God, should be above human responses.Quote (kejonn @ April 20 2008,19:15) Quote (942767 @ April 20 2008,18:51) Hi Mandy: I have already stated that I thought that Elisha's response was quite severe which is all that I can say.
Kevin wanted someone to address the scriptures and so I have done this to the best of my ability. I did not say I was trying justify Elisha's response. I was just trying to understand why he may have responded the way that he did.
Did Yahweh have to honor the curse? did Yahweh send the bears, or did Yahweh? Its less about Elisha's — a human — response and all about what Yahweh supposedly did. Yahweh, as God, should be above human responses.
Should be “did Elijah send the bears, or did Yahweh?”
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