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- December 19, 2009 at 8:55 pm#165380martianParticipant
One of the guiding principles of Bible interpretation is usually ignored because it often brings additional controversy. This principle is the purpose of God. God is not in the practice of giving information for the purpose of intellectual debate. Everything that God says and does furthers His plan for His creation. The controversy comes from the variance in beliefs concerning God’s plan. Simply put, God created man as a temple in which He could dwell. God desires to live vicariously through man. The more we are matured the more of God can dwell in us. At the same time God’s desire was not to build robots, but free willed people that would voluntarily share their lives with Him. He desired children that would learn His wisdom in how to live within the universe that He created for them. This universe did not only include what we know as the material realm but the entire kingdom, physical and spiritual. God wants a people with which He can be one. God breathed the breath of life into Adam an he became a living soul, perfect yet immature. God was a father to Adam. He walked in the cool of the day with him and talked to him.
In clearer terms God desires to duplicate His character in His children. Within that character are God’s motives, intentions and heart. Adam failed his character test. He chose to partake of the knowledge of good and evil, so that he could be like God. He chose to equate himself equal with God. After the fall, man still had some understanding of God because Cain and Able made sacrifices to God, but as time went on those understandings grew less and less. From Abraham to Jesus God worked with man to teach them of his character. From the sacrifices to the Temple of Solomon, God continued to point to a day when He would have the children which He sought to have in the beginning.
None of God’s teachings through the Temple, the prophets, the torah, kings and miracles had brought about the completion of even one of God’s children. What was established was a plan for a Messiah that would lead by example the way to God and His kingdom. A son that would not usurp his father’s position.
What was needed was a real viable example for man to see. Because the human family was already established, when the time was full God brought forth another Adam. Conceived by His Spirit (breath Gr.) and of Mary. Born to a woman, under the law and made like his brethren in every way. This Adam was to fulfill God’s original plan for perfected humanity.
Enter Jesus….. Did Jesus have an advantage because of his supernatural birth? Who knows? It is not clear how God brought about this conception, however, we do know that for him to really be an example for us, the end result had to be completely human and his capabilities and accomplishments all within the grasp of other men. (personally I believe that God created a human sperm to plant in Mary’s womb)
Little is known about Christ’s childhood, except that at 12 he astounded the teachers with his wisdom. One could conclude that Jesus was supernaturally being taught by his father, God.
At 30 years old Christ was tested and perfected enough to start his ministry. This ministry was two fold.
1.To represent the heart, character, motives and intentions of his father, and to show what that character is like developed and perfected in a human being.
2.To be a blood sacrifice and buy back the rightful position, of man, given away by Adam. To be a doorway by which we could complete our heritage as sons of God.Hebrews 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Because Jesus perfectly represented the character of God, he could say to Peter “When you see me you see the Father”. Christ (The anointed one Gr.) consistently gave Credit for the works that were being done. Everything that Christ did and is still doing represents the perfected humanity God began to create with Adam. He fully represented the character of God. When ask what is the greatest commandment, he replied with the motives of God. Love God with your whole being and love your brethren as you love yourself. (paraphrased) For this reason when those that had eyes to see, saw Jesus, they saw God in the human being Jesus. God in Christ. As Thomas said “My Lord and My God.”
From the end of Christ’s ministry until the present, men have gone away from the simple gospel to convoluted philosophies. These concepts have at their root a disdain for humanity and a misunderstanding of the position man was to have in God’s economy. Doctrines that separate man from the plan God intended for him. By augmenting Christ’s humanity with doctrines of dual nature, 100% man and 100% God or making Christ completely deity, they invalidate his example to us and close the door for us to follow in his footsteps. Many of these doctrines stem from Greek philosophies of Gnosticism and Dualism. They teach that nothing good could ever come from humanity and therefore Christ, being good, could not be human. They cannot see all men as children of God through Adam. They do not understand that men can have great variance of obedience from the most outrageous examples of rebellion against God to the perfect example of obedience in Jesus. From men that act by carnal animal instincts to men that act in accordance with God’s wisdom.
From these false philosophies, men endeavor to bend scripture and the simple gospel to fit their historical dogmas and preconceived ideas. Concentrating on small details and compartmentalizing, they cannot or will not step back to look at the big picture and at God’s plan. When confronted with that plan they want to jump back to listing scriptures and Greek understandings ect. Scriptural understanding from an intellectual perspective is fine as long as it is subject to the plan of God. No one gets saved by another conjugating Greek verbs. In most cases people are saved because someone tells them the simple plan of God for them. God loves you and wants to dwell in your temple with you. He wants to teach you how to live and though you have been disobedient children, He has made a doorway for you to come through and an example for you to follow. Jesus Christ.
The testimony of scripture is not a philosophical debate subject but a description of the plan of God and his dealings with man to bring about that plan. Unfortunately many Christians, even with good intentions, get tied up in the minute details of the testimony of scripture and never think in terms of the plan. They are so side tracked with the pride of their debating skills and trying to prove their bent, that they never ask if their conclusions promote or detract from God’s plan. They become so tied up in the subtle nuances of Greek and Hebrew, they do not even consider the plan in their conclusions.
Such is the case with scriptures like found in John Chapter 1.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” John is introducing Jesus with a word or a term that both his Jewish and Gentile readers would have been familiar with. The Greek word translated “Word” in this passage is Logos, and it was common in both Greek philosophy and Jewish thought of that day. For example, in the Old Testament the “word” of God is often personified as an instrument for the execution of God’s will (Psalm 33:6; 107:20; 119:89; 147:15-18). In the same way you could look at the Logos as the blueprint and Jesus as the completed building. So, for his Jewish readers, by introducing Jesus as the fulfillment of the “Word,” (blueprint) John is in a sense pointing them back to the Old Testament where the Logos or “Word” of God is associated with the personification of God’s revelation and the realization of His plan. Jesus is the outward expression and representation of the character of God and therefore t
he completion of His plan.
In the Greek worldview, the Logos was thought of as a bridge between the transcendent God and the material universe. Therefore, for his Greek readers the use of the term Logos would have likely brought forth the idea of a mediator between God and the people of the world. A doorway though which they could see and approach God.The logos is God because it represents the character of God. It represents the plan, motives an intentions of God. It is the blueprint of what God started out to build.
Jesus is the fulfillment of God’s plan/blueprint. He perfectly represents the character, motives and intentions of God. He is perfected humanity, The second and completed Adam.December 20, 2009 at 12:57 am#165422terrariccaParticipantThis is my understanding of the bible;
Moses gives us the five first books so they say; the first of the books is GENESIS; it is the beginning of what? I do believe it has been written to tell us what happen where it happen how it happen, when and why it happen, but as well, how it will be restored. And above all why it will be restored and how, and when and by whom. This I will try to do; Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.They above creation was done out of love, and the final creation (MAN) received direction, guidance to be guardians of the entire property with everything in very good condition no repairs needed.
The owner GOD gives a assistant to help them and to protect,;
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.Now there is now turn back the question of sovereignty of God was in question it has to be solved for the question to ask was could it be possible to refuse to obey God and not be punish and live and is the obedience of man just not possible, what about the angel who was behind the snake he has well became rebel to God but in heaven area so in both cases the sovereignty of GOD was in the scale we could say. Now what;
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Thee, is now the one called SATAN or adversary ,Their is now the first prophesy put in place by GOD to in compass the next few thousand years or more.
Thy seed (Satan) and her seed (JESUS)her being the women.
The seed of the women shall bruise thy head but you shall bruise his heel.This you ask how the seed of the women (JESUS)shall bruise the head of Satan seed ,well since God is truth it is obvious Satan is the liar,
This way Jesus has come to witness to the truth of GOD and proclaimed the truth so people entangled in ignorance, could come to GOD to ones again receive his blessings through the Words spoken by Jesus, this crashes all the falls knowledge spread by Satan over the years since the beginning.Now how is Satan to bruise the heel of the seed (Christ)well we know that even since Christ it is a struggle for the truth to be heard and Christ had paid with is live and he told us to the same outcome for his followers. We have to admit that the seed of Satan has worked in every direction to vilifies the truth of GOD and use his followers to destroy the followers of the true God and his son Jesus Christ .
Throughout the following chapters’ we see how God fulfill and lead as to the seed of the women(Jesus) so that the truth may be seen and understand for future generations.
So God may be found true and righteous in all his ways.And Satan a liar a cheat and a murderer, so are his seed and followers.
This is a simple condense version of the book of GENESIS, to my understanding
December 20, 2009 at 1:39 am#165426Ed JParticipantQuote (martian @ Dec. 20 2009,07:55) He chose to partake of the knowledge of good and evil, so that he could be like God. He chose to equate himself equal with God. John is introducing Jesus with a word or a term that both his Jewish and Gentile readers would have been familiar with.
Hi Martin,Hi Martin,
You zeal for “Truth” is Good; but if you wish to be a Teacher of God’s word,
then you need to grt your facts straight.Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful
in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him,
because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also
that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not;
but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.The HolySpirit is “The Word”; get your facts straight!
Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age,
even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(HolySpirit) of the oath (Isaiah 7:14), which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus) (Matt.1:18 / Luke 1;35), who is consecrated for evermore.Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgDecember 23, 2009 at 4:11 am#166085terrariccaParticipanthi ed J
so the ; The HolySpirit is “The Word”; get your facts straightso the Word is Jesus Christ ,Right ? and if it is right what is the spirit of christ?
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