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Hi K2m,
You must be born again of water as well as the Holy Spirit I am sure you understand.Yeshua was born under the Law. he was a son of David.The letter of the apostles were written to all in Christ. most of them were jewish converts and that is why so much writing is about the Old Law and it's relevance. Many of them saw it as a fallback option and even favoured it. They had to be cajoled into letting go of the old to grasp the new. Paul in Phillippians, a pharisee, said he
“counted all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Jesus Christ my Lord….Count them but rubbish so that I might gain Christ and may be found in him”
No such fallback option exists for gentiles. It is Christ or nothing. That is why so much emphasis is put on the importance of salvation in the Word. That is why t8 and other also preach this gospel so strongly.So speaking to the jewish converts in Galatia Paul says:
Gal 4.4″ But when the fullness of the time came ,God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, BORN UNDER THE LAW, so that He might redeem those WHO WERE UNDER THE LAW, so that we might receive the adoption as sons”Yeshua perfectly fulfilled the Law for us so it is better to be in him than trusting on our own righteousness. Of course we obey the Spirit of the Law but not in the hope of saving ourselves
Yeshua said
” Whoever wants to save his own life will lose it”
Yes those gentiles outside the Law who live as if they have the Law as their conscience find favour with God but they would be better to be in Yeshua. Yes the fruit of the indwellig Spirit of God is good fruit. But it is the work of he who is in us, not the result of our own striving.Hi Nick Hassan and all,
I answered your questions. You did not answer mine.
SO BEING A GENTILE YOU DON’T THINK YOU ARE UNDER THE LAW THAT BRINGS WRATH
If what you say is true kill someone, and see what happens. You will be a transgressor of the law. An eye for an eye. YOU WILL BE JUDGED UNDER THE LAW. An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
—
WHAT DO YOU THINK? DON’T YOU THINK THAT A GENTILE WILL BE JUDGED UNDER THE LAW???
=========================================Jesus fulfilled the law.
Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”Luke 24:44
Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”Now we are to fulfill the law
Romans 13:8
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins.
==========
NOT UNDER THE LAW OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTSRomans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:
Matthew 5: 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
—
Tell me what you think the three above Scriptures mean.—
So through tradition your forefathers taught you that Gentiles are not under the Ten Commandments law of an eye for an eye. As you do is as you receive.If a Gentile murdered someone do you think that he would be saved from the law an eye for an eye by grace?
?What the Scripture says:
1 John 3:15
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.Karyl
====Hi K27,
Rom 2.11f
” For there is no partiality with God.
For ALL who have sinned without the Law WILL PERISH without the Law[GENTILES]
and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law”[JEWS]Rom 3.9f ” What then .Are we[JEWS] better than them[GENTILES]?Not at all;for we have already charged that BOTH JEWS AND GREEKS[GENTILES] ARE UNDER SIN……
We know that whatever the Law says , IT SPEAKS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW.”So the only remaining question is ARE YOU A JEW and thus under the Law? Or are you a gentile who is not under the law but awaiting the wrath of God – unless you have born into Yeshua and fulfilled the Law in him and going to inherit the promise of Abraham's children?
Rom 2.13 explains how the Jews are judged by the Law. We are not Jews.
Rom 3.31 Shows that not a jot or tittle of the Law disappears, but it is not our Law of course.
Rom 13.8 Is about the Law that does apply to us. The new Law, the Law of Christ, the Law to love one another as Yeshua has loved us.
Matt 5.48
Yeshua discusses the OT Law requirements with the Jews and tightens the screws. He makes the Law impossible to fulfill. He only was able to fufill it perfectly so the ability to be saved by obedience to the OT Law is removed. It is replaced by the new and better way. Salvation in him.Human religion is useless folly because no one can come to God except through Yeshua. Your question about the murderer reflects that you do not realise the importance of the salvation offered by Yeshua. Gentiles will perish without reference to the Law.
Acts 4.12
” And there is salvation in no one else;for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved”
Now God is merciful and there is plenty of evidence that many will find salvation outside of the Way because of this. But that is why the way of Yeshua is preached. it is safe and certain.Hi Nick Hassan and all,
Romans 2:14
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
—
Galatians 2:13-15 (New King James Version)
13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.WHY DO YOU COMPEL GENTLES TO LIVE AS JEWS?
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you[a] compel Gentiles to live as Jews?
—–
The Jews did not sin, because they loved God, and their neighbor. That is they did all the things that were in the Ten Commandments.
—–See Romans 2:14 above. JEWS BY NATURE, AND NOT SINNERS
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
—-
If you believe in Jesus you will love your neighbor and keep the commandments.
—
IF WE DON’T LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AND KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS WE ARE FOUND TO BE A SINNER
17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!WE ARE TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR AND, NOT RETURN TO SIN
18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.BEING BORN AGAIN AND THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT LOVE FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR DEVELOPES
THE OLD MAN DIES AND, AND ACTION REACTION IS OVERCOME
19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.NOW WE ARE TO LIVE FOR CHRIST
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.WE ARE TO HAVE MERCY OR GRACE FOR OUR NEIGHBOR. NOT AN EYE FOR AN EYE BY THE LAW.
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
=================================================
LIKE I SAID BEFORE:
How Not to be Under The Law of Moses, but under the Law of Mercy
==================================================
Resist not evil – turn the other cheek
Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Do good to them that hate you
=======================================================
YOU ARE RIGHT. WE DON’T KEEP THE LAW
WE DO BETTER THAN THAT. WE ARE TO RETURN GOOD FOR EVIL.
=======================================================
Karyl
====HI k2m,
All scripture is useful for us to study. But all scripture is not written to everyone. We can learn from all of it about God and His ways but it may not all directly apply to us. The OT Law teaches us a lot about God and good behaviour but it never could save us. Have you discerned this?
If you go through Matt 19 or any of part of the gospels you will see that Jesus spoke different things to different audiences. He taught, he answered questions from individuals and groups, he rebuked falsehoods, he gave advice.
It is important to approach the Word with this in mind and to sort out what applies directly and what is useful in other ways.
Of course before there was an OT law men lived under conscience. Likewise gentiles without the Law or the covenant also are under conscience[Rom 2.14]. We are of the Spirit though and the Spirit leads us into righteous behaviors which closely mirror the Law.I would like to point out that according to Paul, he states that he is free from the law; but he also states that he is not free from Gods Laws. He also says that keeping the commandments is what counts. What these statements reveil is that there are two sets of laws being addressed.God did give other commandments besides the ten commandments. Its the feasts and old priesthood along with animal sacrifices that have been done away with.
Quote (Guest @ Jan. 31 2005,18:56) I would like to point out that according to Paul, he states that he is free from the law; but he also states that he is not free from Gods Laws. He also says that keeping the commandments is what counts. What these statements reveil is that there are two sets of laws being addressed.God did give other commandments besides the ten commandments. Its the feasts and old priesthood along with animal sacrifices that have been done away with.
sorry Michael but can you show me those quotes of Paul's?Yeshua is the High Priest of our profession and His sacrifice has “perfected for all time those who are sanctified” Heb 10.14
The feasts remain important and will be reinstituted in the Millenial Kingdom of Yeshua.
Better think about that again, for such who teach that the law or torah is abolished are CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL( 1 John 3:8).
For sin is the transgression( violation) of the law( 1 John 3:4), and those who sin/ ie-transgress the law wilfully are of the devil.
Go read the Article called “” Did Paul do away with the law?””.
Hi e,
Indeed the Law has not been abolished. But it has never applied to the gentiles who were never part of the first covenant. And it was only in force until the time of John.Wrong Nick, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW NOR GENTILE as Paul plainly said( Romans 10:12), and Paul said that the Renewed Covenant IS HIS LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS WRITTEN IN OUR HEARTS OR MINDS( Jer.31:32-32; Heb.8:10).
This is THE NEW COVENANT, and if the laws are nulified for Gentiles, then how can those laws be written in their hearts and minds??
Those who teach no law are CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL( 1 John 3:8).
Hi e,
Indeed there is now no difference between Jew and Gentile as the door of salvation in Yeshua is open to all whereas the Law was only the covenant Yahweh made with the Jews. Now there is no longer Jew or Greek for all can be one in the Son of Yahweh.Nick, Paul DID NOT SAY “” that the new covenant “”( Heb.8:10) were just for the jews.
That's more Baal doctrines Nick, and deceptions of satan, because Yahweh is no respector of persons, but those who fear Him even Gentiles have to go the way of faithful Abraham.
And, Yahweh will ONLY give His true Sacred Spirit TO THOSE WHOM OBEY HIM( Acts 5:32).
Those who don't obey Him and His Commands do not have His Spirit, and they practice lawlessness, which therefore they are called CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL( 1 John 3:8).
Where do you fit with that above Nick?
Nick, traditional christianity and its pagan “”gad “” teaches doctrines of demons and of Baalism( Rev.2:14).
What denomination did you learn such things from Nick, I know it must be ONE of modern times, because such is teaching lawlessness to Gentiles.
Or, are You afraid to tell me WHICH Denomination and Organization You are from ?
Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 13 2005,06:14) Nick, Paul DID NOT SAY “” that the new covenant “”( Heb.8:10) were just for the jews. That's more Baal doctrines Nick, and deceptions of satan, because Yahweh is no respector of persons, but those who fear Him even Gentiles have to go the way of faithful Abraham.
And, Yahweh will ONLY give His true Sacred Spirit TO THOSE WHOM OBEY HIM( Acts 5:32).
Those who don't obey Him and His Commands do not have His Spirit, and they practice lawlessness, which therefore they are called CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL( 1 John 3:8).
Where do you fit with that above Nick?
Hi e,
The new Covenant is in the blood of Yeshua and, as you say is for all, Jew and Greek.
“he takes away the first to establish the second”Have you not yet received of the Spirit?
Yea, and Paul ONLY mentioned the ONE Covenant in ( Heb.8:10) and read ( Heb.Chapter 9).
Search the scriptures Nick, on the ONE hand there are those WHO DIS-OBEY Yahs Commands in the Torah, and they receive Judgment and death.
On the OTHER HAND, there are those WHO OBEY and DO Yah's Commands in the Torah, and they receive immortal Eternal Life.
Wilful Disobedience to His Commandments brings Yah's Wrath upon ye Nick, and it is ONLY those who DO His Commandments THAT HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE( REV.22:14), not those who wilfully dis-obey them.
” Grace” does not give you liscence to sin / ie- transgress Yah's Laws( 1 John 3:4).
“” He that says, I KNOW Him( Yah) and does not DO and OBEY His Commandments, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM- or that Person( 1 John 2:3-4).
Nick, you can keep on making your so-called false claims all the way to hell if you so desire.
Eliyah C.
Quote (Eliyah @ Sep. 13 2005,06:14) Nick, Paul DID NOT SAY “” that the new covenant “”( Heb.8:10) were just for the jews. That's more Baal doctrines Nick, and deceptions of satan, because Yahweh is no respector of persons, but those who fear Him even Gentiles have to go the way of faithful Abraham.
And, Yahweh will ONLY give His true Sacred Spirit TO THOSE WHOM OBEY HIM( Acts 5:32).
Those who don't obey Him and His Commands do not have His Spirit, and they practice lawlessness, which therefore they are called CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL( 1 John 3:8).
Where do you fit with that above Nick?
You keep getting confused eliyah. The new covenant can include not only Jews but gentiles like us.Lawlessness only applies to those outside the Law and we are under the Law of Christ.
Once again your wild accusations are far from the truth.
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