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David
Quote How many times are we told that the holy spirit is God? The Holy Spirit is God
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.Mathew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. (Blasphemy can only be committed against God)
1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God (the Holy Ghost) in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God (the Holy Spirit) , and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord (God) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.
9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit (only God hath immortality) offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
The HOLY SPIRIT (a Person) is endowed with very “personal” characteristics like:
Intelligence and knowledge, feelings and teaching ability.(John 14:26) “for He will teach you all things”.
1 Cor. 2:13,14 He teaches us spiritual things, helping us to discern spiritual things
(1 Cor. 12:11),He makes decisions –deciding who gets what spiritual gift
He has emotions and can be grieved (Eph. 4:30)
Romans 8:26 “The Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.(John 16:8) He convicts of sin, of righteousness and judgment
Rev. 22:17
He invites people to “come” (Matt. 12:31, Mark 3:29) He can be sinned and blasphemed against, which can lead to the unpardonable sin
“The Spirit Himself bears witness…. that we are children of God (Romans 8:16He speaks (Acts 8:29)
teaches (Luke 12:12)
reveals (Luke 2:26)
testifies (Acts 20:23)
searches (1 Cor. 2:10,11)
He sets people apart for service and sends them on their way (Acts 13:2,4)
He commands and guides (Acts 8:29)
He declares things to come (John 16:13)
In John chapters 14-16 Christ referred to the Holy Spirit 24 times with personal PRONOUNS. HE, HIM. He addresses the Holy Spirit as a person, and treats Him as a person. In John 14:16 He calls Him the Comforter (Parakletos), which is a title which could only be held by a person.
Isaiah 6:3 says, “And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Did you catch that? That's one “holy” for each person of the Godhead!Rev 4:8 … Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
All praise to God the Father… God the Son Jesus Christ… and God the Holy Spirit! ALL Three merit perfect praise. Holy, Holy, Holy! If there is only one God they would not have repeated the worshipful praise three times.
Holy! Holy! Holy!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 27 2006,17:25) Quote Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, “THY GOD”, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows. The trinity doctrine states that The Father Son and Spirit are equal. But the above scripture says that the Father is the GOD of the SON. This scripture sets straight the Trinity doctrine. Jesus is God of this the Father's new creation and is not equal with the Father.
1Co 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.
Between Heb. 1:9 and 1Cor. 15:28 it should be clear that the Father is (as His Son said) greater than the Son.
The trinity doctrine does not state that in rank all of the Godhead are equal. But as far as the nature of God his substance and his essence the Father,Son and Holy Spirit is One and equal.
A Father may be greater in rank than a Son. But the Son is equal to the Father in nature, substance and essence. The Son is no less human than the Father.
Jesus is no less God than the Father.
You mean that Jehovah is above the Son in name only?Only the Father has no beginning and no end. Jesus on the other hand was created by Jehovah. Don't you believe Jesus when He says the Father is greater than He?
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:
Does scripture lie?
I H L,
kenrch
Quote You mean that Jehovah is above the Son in name only? Only the Father has no beginning and no end. Jesus on the other hand was created by Jehovah. Don't you believe Jesus when He says the Father is greater than He?
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:
Does scripture lie?
I H L,
kenrch
kenrch
Jesus has been given **ALL POWER** in heaven and in earth.
Eph 1:
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.Col 1:
16 For by him were **all things created**, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is **before all things**, and **by him all things consist**.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should **all fulness dwell**;Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:The Father has given him a name above every name.
Phil 2:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
He is not above the Father, Neither is he below the Father.Jehovah is above the Son only in rank.
He has committed all things to the Son. It Pleased the Father that **ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD DWELL IN HIM BODILY**
Everyone wants to give so much honor to the Father. Great.
But the honor to the Father is by honoring the Son **even a as you would honor** the Father, this includes being God.
If The Father calls him God and commands the Angels to worship him. Do you think you honor the Father by not doing the same.
He that hath the Son hath “God” the Father also.
I Jn 4:
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that **Jesus Christ,[Word/God]** is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ,[Word/God] is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.He is at the right hand of the Father. Jesus said the Father was greater than he because he had no yet been given back all the power which he had with the Father as co-creastor before he took on human form and offered his Body as a sacrifice for us, being subject to the Father wiliingly given up his right to be equal with God.
He had not yet been Glorified with the Glory that he had with the Father before the world began.
Jesus is co-creator with the Father and the Spirit, of **ALL** things, and By him **ALL THINGS CONSIST**, and he is BEFORE **ALL THINGS**.
Unless he created himself then he is the Great **I AM** that is written about in the voluume of the book.
There is no scriptural evidence that the Word/God who took on human form had a beginning.
Show me and I will believe you.
Hi WorshippingJesus
Just thinking about this you said…There is no scriptural evidence that the Word/God who took on human form had a beginning.I wonder at close look if this may help?
Being Gods creation throught time was recreated to become incorruptible.
Also that it seems a teaching that the church in revelation has to overcome!
A Good thing to search out.
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, (the beginning of the creation of God;)
Pro 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me {in the beginning of his way), before his works of old.charity
Quote Hi WorshippingJesus
Just thinking about this you said…There is no scriptural evidence that the Word/God who took on human form had a beginning.I wonder at close look if this may help?
Being Gods creation throught time was recreated to become incorruptible.
Also that it seems a teaching that the church in revelation has to overcome!
A Good thing to search out.
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, (the beginning of the creation of God;)
Pro 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me {in the beginning of his way), before his works of old.charity
You say…
Quote Being Gods creation throught time was recreated to become incorruptible. What is that? Is that a scripture?
Also you say…
Quote Also that it seems a teaching that the church in revelation has to overcome! A Good thing to search out.
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, (the beginning of the creation of God;)
Pro 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me {in the beginning of his way), before his works of old.
Jesus is not the personification of Wisdom. Wisdom has its origin in Jesus. You have no scriptural proof that the proverbs is speaking of Jesus.First of all Jesus is not Female.
The LORD, Jehovah of the Bible, has infinite wisdom in Himself, from eternity. There is not, and never was, any limit to His understanding. We call His infinite wisdom, omniscience. Lady Wisdom, personifying wisdom in this chapter, was always with Him, for He was always the only wise God (I Tim 1:17; Jude 1:25).
There are seven pronouns here, representing two persons, one male, one female. First, the LORD is represented by “him,” “him,” “his,” and “him.” We see this easily from the preceding context, which speaks of the LORD possessing wisdom from the beginning (8:22) right down to using wisdom to decree limits on the sea (8:29).
Then we see Lady Wisdom, which is Solomon's personification of wisdom, who is referenced throughout this chapter by female pronouns. In our proverb, wisdom is identified by “I,” “one,” and “I.” Consider also “her” in 8:1, “she” in 8:2, “she” in 8:3, and right on down to “me” twice in 8:36.
God inspired Solomon, as one of the methods of teaching wisdom, to personify wisdom as a woman, whom we should choose to hear and follow rather than the strange woman. Each reader must make a choice which woman he will follow and befriend. He frequently uses this figure of speech (1:20-33; 2:4; 3:15-18; 4:5-13; 8:1-36; 9:1-5). Please see the comments on 8:1, for a short explanation of this figure of speech.
Our proverb is often perverted to teach that Jesus is a begotten God – a secondary God generated by the Father. Heretics crept into the church 150 years after the apostles and taught that the deity of Jesus was derived from His Father. They held that Jehovah begat a Son in eternity by a mysterious process of generation. You can read this horrible blasphemy in John 1:18 of the NASV. Jehovah's Witnesses, heretics that they are, love such a doctrine, for Jesus is only a subordinate God to them.
Jesus is not a begotten God at all. Jesus is the mighty God (Is 9:6). Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus is I AM THAT I AM. Jesus is the Everlasting Father (Is 9:6). Jesus is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:1,14). Jehovah never begat a God or a Son in His divine nature. Jehovah had a Son named Jesus, when He brought His power over the virgin Mary; it is this miraculous birth that makes Him the Son of God (Luke 1:35). Only after this birth, this incarnation of deity in humanity, did God have a Son (John 1:14,18). This is the great mystery of godliness, and we shall live and die by it (I Tim 3:16).
The most important message of the New Testament is that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, and it is this precise doctrine we believe and defend. A derived, begotten, generated, or otherwise inferior deity from eternity is not the Son of God. The divine nature of Jesus was and is undivided, unbegotten, unoriginated, and ungenerated! He was and is the Word of God, without origin, begetting, generation, or any other manmade hallucination. He is Jehovah! Jesus is not an eternal Son! He is the eternal God! He became the Son of God by His glorious incarnation in the womb of Mary (Luke 1:35).
The heretics ignorantly reject the personification of wisdom in this chapter and other places. Our proverb is not speaking of God having a little boy playing before Him in eternity! Lady Wisdom is speaking, and she is figuratively describing herself as always having been with the LORD of heaven and earth. Read 8:21 again. Here it is: “The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.”
If our proverb is describing the divine nature of Jesus in eternity, as these false teachers say, then the divine nature of Jesus is female! For wisdom is a woman by personification throughout this chapter and the other places where Solomon uses the figure. If Jesus is presented here, then Jesus was just a spectator at creation (8:27)!
Enough with their heresy! What can we learn profitable for our souls? The glorious and infinite God delights in wisdom, and He has always delighted in wisdom, which is the power of judging rightly in any situation. From His holy example, we should pursue and rejoice in wisdom as much as He does.
Lady Wisdom rejoiced to see men created, and delights in serving them (8:31). Hearing her, watching for her, and keeping her ways will bring blessing (8:32,34). If we pursue wisdom, we will find life and obtain the favor of the LORD of glory (8:35).
Dear reader, what have you done this day to hear wisdom, to watch for her, and to keep her ways? Do you delight in knowing her? Life, blessing, and the favor of the LORD are waiting! What is more important to you than these wonderful things? If wisdom is important enough to delight the great God, why not you?
All the treasures of wisdom are found in our Lord Jesus Christ (Col 2:3). Though our proverb does not teach it, after the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ in Mary's womb, God our Father did delight greatly in His only begotten Son, the man Christ Jesus (Is 42:1). He publicly declared so at His baptism and at His transfiguration (Matt 3:17; 17:5). Do you delight in the Son of God?
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, (the beginning of the creation of God;)
Pro 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me {in the beginning of his way), before his works of old.
Jesus truly is the beginning of the creation of God because **ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM**. He didnt create himself.The word “beginning” in vs 14 is *arche* which means;
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
“arche” comes from a root word *archomai* which means
1) to be the first to do (anything), to begin
2) to be chief, leader, ruler
3) to begin, make a beginning
So Jesus is the “ORIGINATOR” of
**ALL THINGS** including wisdom.He is and was the Eternal life that was with the Father.
Col 2
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Col 1:
16 For by him were **all things created**, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is **before all things**, and **by him all things consist**.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should **all fulness dwell**;Sure before the New creation (you and other Christians) Jesus ran the kingdom for the Father. That's one reason why Jesus was created Rev. 3:14. But who appointed Jesus God of this new creation (Heb. 1:8-9)?
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should **all fulness dwell**;Jesus is the head of the church. Was there a church before flesh was created? Jesus is the firstborn of the dead. Again was this before flesh? Why was Jesus the firstborn of the dead so the He would be the elder of those who will be born of the dead, the elder having first preeminence.
Therefore God “YOUR GOD” hath anointed you with oil..
Are you going to just leave out Heb. 1:9? Therefore Jesus YOUR GOD hath anoiinted you with oil.What is Heb. 1:9 saying?
Jesus is the first born of God. So yes in a matter of speaking Jesus is OF God. Even we who groan and cry abba Father
are OF God waiting for the redemption of our body.Isn't this the purpose of the whole plan for God to have children BORN and not created as before flesh?
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),Quote Sure before the New creation (you and other Christians) Jesus ran the kingdom for the Father. That's one reason why Jesus was created Rev. 3:14. But who appointed Jesus God of this new creation (Heb. 1:8-9)? Kenrch
Rev 3:14 is no proof Jesus is a created being. Look closer and throw away your herisy.
Rev 3:14
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;The word “beginning” is “arche” which means…
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
It comes from a root word “archomai” which means…
1) to be the first to do (anything), to begin
2) to be chief, leader, ruler
3) to begin, make a beginning
Jesus is the Eternal life, the Word that was with God the Word that was God. You have no evidence here.
Jesus is as it says the “origin” of the creation of God.
All things means All things.
Col 1:
16 For by him were **all things created**, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is **before all things**, and **by him all things consist**.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should **all fulness dwell**;
This is not future tense, this is past tence.Why do men insist on making new doctrine.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2007,20:38) Quote Sure before the New creation (you and other Christians) Jesus ran the kingdom for the Father. That's one reason why Jesus was created Rev. 3:14. But who appointed Jesus God of this new creation (Heb. 1:8-9)? Kenrch
Rev 3:14 is no proof Jesus is a created being. Look closer and throw away your herisy.
Rev 3:14
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;The word “beginning” is “arche” which means…
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
It comes from a root word “archomai” which means…
1) to be the first to do (anything), to begin
2) to be chief, leader, ruler
3) to begin, make a beginning
Jesus is the Eternal life, the Word that was with God the Word that was God. You have no evidence here.
Jesus is as it says the “origin” of the creation of God.
All things means All things.
Col 1:
16 For by him were **all things created**, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is **before all things**, and **by him all things consist**.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should **all fulness dwell**;
This is not future tense, this is past tence.Why do men insist on making new doctrine.
And Heb. 1:9 Therefore God YOUR God coupled with Jesus Himself saying that the Father is greater coupled with Jesus will turn over everything (His Kingdom) to the Father that the Father will be all in all.Who is top notch here? The Father or the Son either way both are NOT equal as your doctrine of the Trinity states.
I'm sorry but you are adhering to a Catholic (Harlot) doctrine and you should come out of her.
Please explain Heb. 1:9.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2005,04:39) Hi,
Godhead is a uniquely KJV word that seesm to have been adopted by traditional christianity to mean either the trinity or the family of God.Can we look at the context where it is used in the bible?
Romans 1.19-20 {New KJV}
” because what may be known of God is manifest in them for God has shown it to the, for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly see, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead so they are without excuse”Now try to put trinity or family in there .It does not fit because the whole verse is about the Father.
Coll 2.8-9
” Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily”Now can anyone tell me how the family or trinity, of which Christ is said to be a part, can also be in him? That makes no sense. Again it refers to the Spirit of God, God's nature and power expressed on earth in Christ and now in us.
Now NASB translates the word as “divine nature” in Romans and “deity” in Collosians.
I would welcome your comments.
Hi Nick, you are not quite right in saying that Godhead is peculiar to KJV. Here are some othersCol 2:9
(AMP) For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].
(ASV) for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
(CEV) God lives fully in Christ.
(ESV) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
(ISV) For in him the whole fullness of God lives in bodily form.
(KJV+) For3754 in1722 him846 dwelleth2730 all3956 the3588 fullness4138 of the3588 Godhead2320 bodily.4985
(MKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
(RV) for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
(Webster) For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
(YLT) because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Quote (Oxy @ Jan. 02 2007,01:12) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2005,04:39) Hi,
Godhead is a uniquely KJV word that seesm to have been adopted by traditional christianity to mean either the trinity or the family of God.Can we look at the context where it is used in the bible?
Romans 1.19-20 {New KJV}
” because what may be known of God is manifest in them for God has shown it to the, for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly see, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead so they are without excuse”Now try to put trinity or family in there .It does not fit because the whole verse is about the Father.
Coll 2.8-9
” Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily”Now can anyone tell me how the family or trinity, of which Christ is said to be a part, can also be in him? That makes no sense. Again it refers to the Spirit of God, God's nature and power expressed on earth in Christ and now in us.
Now NASB translates the word as “divine nature” in Romans and “deity” in Collosians.
I would welcome your comments.
Hi Nick, you are not quite right in saying that Godhead is peculiar to KJV. Here are some othersCol 2:9
(AMP) For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].
(ASV) for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
(CEV) God lives fully in Christ.
(ESV) For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
(ISV) For in him the whole fullness of God lives in bodily form.
(KJV+) For3754 in1722 him846 dwelleth2730 all3956 the3588 fullness4138 of the3588 Godhead2320 bodily.4985
(MKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
(RV) for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
(Webster) For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
(YLT) because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Well Ok Oxy a family of God the Father being in charge. But that does not agree with the Trinity doctrine, does it ?Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 02 2007,01:16) Well Ok Oxy a family of God the Father being in charge. But that does not agree with the Trinity doctrine, does it ?
Hi Kenrch, love you too brother.Actually the Father gave all authority to Jesus, which kinda makes Jesus in charge. Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
Which raises an interesting point. What does the Father do now that He doesn't have to rule? The amazing and very interesting answer is that it frees Him up to be what He always wanted to be… a Father!
Quote (Oxy @ Jan. 02 2007,04:05) Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 02 2007,01:16) Well Ok Oxy a family of God the Father being in charge. But that does not agree with the Trinity doctrine, does it ?
Hi Kenrch, love you too brother.Actually the Father gave all authority to Jesus, which kinda makes Jesus in charge. Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
Which raises an interesting point. What does the Father do now that He doesn't have to rule? The amazing and very interesting answer is that it frees Him up to be what He always wanted to be… a Father!
So the Father at least has the full authority to do that. If Jesus were already equal to the Father then why would His Father have to give Jesus authority. Then we all know that Jesus gives back that authority to His Father that God will be all in all.So Jesus (God of this new creation) was anointed by His God our Father with all authority.
Even if we disagree it is always a pleasure to “reason” with you. You have a cretain gentleness about you I believe it's called fruit of the Spirit
Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 02 2007,13:53) So the Father at least has the full authority to do that. If Jesus were already equal to the Father then why would His Father have to give Jesus authority. Then we all know that Jesus gives back that authority to His Father that God will be all in all. So Jesus (God of this new creation) was anointed by His God our Father with all authority.
Even if we disagree it is always a pleasure to “reason” with you. You have a cretain gentleness about you I believe it's called fruit of the Spirit
Thanks Kenrch, I have enjoyed the “fellowship” with you also.I think it is important to define the roles of God. As you say, Almighty God (Father) gave to Jesus all authority.
Jesus is King of kings, Lord of lords, Ruler, mighty Word of God. In His name only is salvation, deliverance and access to the Father.
The Father, known throughout the Old Testament times as the Almaighty God, (not Father), was Judge, Provider, Deliverer, One to be feared because of His judgements.
In the New Testament He is Father, not only to His firstborn Jesus, but also to as many of us as are born of the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit, who was given to us after Jesus ascended, bears witness of this and works out in our lives the fruit and gifts in accordance to the will of God.
The three have three very distinct roles and it is my conviction that understanding this can only enhance the relationship we have with our God.
Blessings.
Oxy,
You said:
Quote The Father, known throughout the Old Testament times as the Almaighty God, (not Father), was Judge, Provider, Deliverer, One to be feared because of His judgements. This is patently false. Yahweh has always been Father.
Deuteronomy 32:6
“Do you thus deal with the LORD,O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father, who bought you? Has He not made you and established you?”Psalm 103:13
“As a father pities his children,So the LORD pities those who fear Him.”Malachi 2:10
“Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers?”Quote This is patently false. Yahweh has always been Father. Deuteronomy 32:6
“Do you thus deal with the LORD,O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father, who bought you? Has He not made you and established you?”Psalm 103:13
“As a father pities his children,So the LORD pities those who fear Him.”Malachi 2:10
“Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers?”I think this is a play on words.
Yaweh is Yashua. Yes Jesus is called everlasting Father in Isa 9:6, however I think what Oxy is trying to say is Jesus introduced God “EL” as Father since Jesus was the Firstborn Son of the New Creation.
To be a Son of God and God be your Father under the New Covenant you had to be Born again.
Jn 1:
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.Jn 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.Jn 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.If this is not your opinion Oxy Please correct me!
Quote (Oxy @ Jan. 02 2007,19:32) Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 02 2007,13:53) So the Father at least has the full authority to do that. If Jesus were already equal to the Father then why would His Father have to give Jesus authority. Then we all know that Jesus gives back that authority to His Father that God will be all in all. So Jesus (God of this new creation) was anointed by His God our Father with all authority.
Even if we disagree it is always a pleasure to “reason” with you. You have a cretain gentleness about you I believe it's called fruit of the Spirit
Thanks Kenrch, I have enjoyed the “fellowship” with you also.I think it is important to define the roles of God. As you say, Almighty God (Father) gave to Jesus all authority.
Jesus is King of kings, Lord of lords, Ruler, mighty Word of God. In His name only is salvation, deliverance and access to the Father.
The Father, known throughout the Old Testament times as the Almaighty God, (not Father), was Judge, Provider, Deliverer, One to be feared because of His judgements.
In the New Testament He is Father, not only to His firstborn Jesus, but also to as many of us as are born of the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit, who was given to us after Jesus ascended, bears witness of this and works out in our lives the fruit and gifts in accordance to the will of God.
The three have three very distinct roles and it is my conviction that understanding this can only enhance the relationship we have with our God.
Blessings.
Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father; for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight.Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
When we gather in the name of Jesus it is the Holy Spirit that is present.
All God's children have the Holy Spirit.
When we gather in a God mind set the Spirit of God is manifested. God's children are in the same Spirit.
Their are other spirits their is the partying spirit, the sport spirit the ruch one gets when his team scores. And there is of course the spirit of the antichrist.
We are of the HOLY Spirit having the Spirit that Christ had when He was on earth.
Here in New Orleans a local TV station has a saying “the spirit of Louisiana” which to me is the wrong spirit for we can only be of the Holy Spirit. The spirit of Louisiana.. well, New Orleans anyway is a partying spirit of demons. John tells us to test all spirits.
The point I'm trying to make is that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and His God. We get this Spirit by submission and an inventation to the Spirit by repentance to the other spirits we had before we were born again.
There will be no other spirit in heaven. No spirit of drunkness, or partying, or even sports. God will be all in all.
The Only True God
We note from the following verses in John that:
1.Jesus is God’s Son and also God along with the Father according to John 1:1 “and the Word was God” and Hebrews 1:8. “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”
2.Jesus gives eternal life to all that God gives him, which is a claim to being absolute Deity since only God can give eternal life.
3.Jesus existed in glory with the Father even before the world was created.
4.Jesus demands to be glorified by God, something which no mere creature could ever demand.
5.Jesus states that everything that the Father has belongs to him, which makes him the heir of everything that exists.
6.Jesus indwells all the believers, an indication that Christ is omnipresent and therefore God since God alone is omnipresent.
7.Jesus is the object of the Father’s love even before the creation of the world.
Thus, the context makes it clear that Jesus’ statement about the Father being the only true God in no way was meant to deny that Christ is God as well, since he goes on to make claims that only God could make. Jesus is simply addressing the Father for being the only true God since this is what he truly is, and yet we know from the same Bible that the only true God exists as Three Person. The Holy Scriptures plainly show that both the Son and the Holy Spirit are also truly God.
Therefore, since the one true God exists as a Godhead this means that the three Persons can be addressed as the only true God both individually and collectively. Putting it another way:
•The Godhead is the only true God.
•Each specific member of the Godhead is the only true God.
•Therefore, the members of the Godhead are the only true God, whether individually or collectively.Quote (OneSpirit @ Jan. 02 2007,20:08) Oxy, You said:
Quote The Father, known throughout the Old Testament times as the Almaighty God, (not Father), was Judge, Provider, Deliverer, One to be feared because of His judgements. This is patently false. Yahweh has always been Father.
Deuteronomy 32:6
“Do you thus deal with the LORD,O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father, who bought you? Has He not made you and established you?”Psalm 103:13
“As a father pities his children,So the LORD pities those who fear Him.”Malachi 2:10
“Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers?”
This is really playing with words. He was never a father in the true sense of the word until Jesus was born (firstborn).He was always Father in the sense that He created all, but that is a long way short of being a father.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2007,21:44) Quote This is patently false. Yahweh has always been Father. Deuteronomy 32:6
“Do you thus deal with the LORD,O foolish and unwise people? Is He not your Father, who bought you? Has He not made you and established you?”Psalm 103:13
“As a father pities his children,So the LORD pities those who fear Him.”Malachi 2:10
“Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers?”I think this is a play on words.
Yaweh is Yashua. Yes Jesus is called everlasting Father in Isa 9:6, however I think what Oxy is trying to say is Jesus introduced God “EL” as Father since Jesus was the Firstborn Son of the New Creation.
To be a Son of God and God be your Father under the New Covenant you had to be Born again.
Jn 1:
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.Jn 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.Jn 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.If this is not your opinion Oxy Please correct me!
Thanks WJ. Largely you are right, but there is no way that Yahweh and Yashua are one and the same. Isaiah 9:6 descibes Jesus as everlasting father, but Jesus is not THE Father, but rather the father of the Christian faith. Quite different.
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