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Quote (Cult Buster @ Dec. 10 2006,06:21) 2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.Come out of her!
Hi CB,
If you are to preach the truth you must abide in the Word of God. The father of lies has milllions of religious followers who do not abide in the Scriptures and you should not be found among them. Trinity has never been found in the mouth of any of God's servants
Proverbs 30:6
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.Quote Hi CB,
We abhor the Watchtower and every human doctrinal speculation and intellectual tower of Babel raised against the truth of Scripture.Unfortunately you are still following her indoctrination.
Come out of her
Quote Hey Buster,
So, what is a “real Christian Church” in your opinion? Can you provide an answer?A real Christian church will not deny Christ their God.
“Unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given and His NAME shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Come out of her
Hi CB,
Is our God the same as Jesus's?Jn 20
” 17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
Listen to the Master, not your human masters.
Following blind men only means you fall into the same pit.Quote A real Christian church will not deny Christ their God. Buster,
Perhaps you could provide a name? It seems most have denied Christ when they have become friends with the world and gone off to kill their brothers in wars and when they disregarded his words to show love to one another and to go and make disciples.
If you can't provide any examples of “real Christian churches,” then how will you direct ones to these?
Ancient Babylon worshipped trinities of gods.
Today, Babylon the Great does as well.Maybe you should come out of her and shed babylonian beliefs.
Quote Hi CB,
Is our God the same as Jesus's?Jn 20
” 17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
Listen to the Master, not your human masters.
Following blind men only means you fall into the same pit.NH. It seems that you do not understand Christ's mission as Messiah or that you are self deluded.
There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God. Christ's mission was to destroy the works of the devil while in the form of a man. He succeeded where Adam failed.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply temporarily put aside His own divine power and depended on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.NH. All your “proof texts” are verses from Christ's incarnation as a man and are presented out of their context.
Very tricky! But so are Arian cults.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Hi CB,
I agree that Jesus revealed the powers of God on earth.
The main stumbling block for you seems to be the STUMBLING STONE-THE SON OF GOD.
Jesus said he was the Son of God, not God Himself.
He was the Word who was with God in the beginning.
Yes he partook of flesh and became of the seed of Abraham and David.
Where is your scriptural proof for these statements?“There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God.”
“When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply temporarily put aside His own divine power “
Sscott.
Re. your 5 questions.Q1. Your comments. God is a Trinity..without one member of the Trinity you do not have God.
There are a number of models of the “trinity” being used in Christianity today and your question I assume deals with the Catholic trinity.
In a nutshell the Catholics teach that originally there was God the Father and that He copulated with Himself to produce God the Son, and then out of them both came the Holy Spirit. A three in one, one in three blend. This is unbiblical rubbish borrowed from paganism. No wonder it does not provide answers to your questions.
The word trinity is not found in scripture and I prefer not to use it. In the old testament we have the word “Elohiym” meaning God in the plurality or Gods. The new testament uses words like Godhead and Deity. (Theos Theios, Theiotes,)
The Bible Godhead consist of The Father, Son and the Holy Ghost. Each is a separate divine Person and each the Eternal God. The new testament Greek word for God “Theos” sometime refers individually to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit: and at other times refers to the Godhead. We must read scripture in its context to know Who it refers to.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: /I]
Your question
So when Jesus cries out “My God My God why have you forsaken me”….how is it possible that God forsook God?
With the Catholic “trinity” it does not make sense, but with the Bible Godhead then it makes perfect sense. At the cross God withdrew His presence from Christ because of our sins.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
This was the first time in eternity that Christ was separated from God. This started in Gethsemane; hence His suffering.
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
It was our sins placed on the spotless Lamb of God that separated Christ from God.
Q2. Your comments
If Jesus was 100% God and 100% man how could He sin? God cannot be tempted to sin. Jesus had to have the possibility of sinning or else he could not be a faithful High Priest able to sympathize with our weakness.
There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God. With respect to Matt Slick I’d rather follow what the Bible teaches.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Q.3 Your comments
There are many instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I. I always thought this was in reference to Jesus being a Man on earth. But you also have accounts of Jesus calling the Father His God after the resurection. He calls the Father His God when speaking to Mary and again in Revelations. (Rev 3:12) Why is Jesus still calling the Father His God? There is also a passage that says the head of Jesus is God. (1 Cor 11:3)
In many of these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Q.4 Your comments
In John 5:26 Jesus says:
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah. Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn to work together and to serve each other.
Q.5 Your comments
John 6:58 says:
57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.This also is in the context of Christ’s mission as Messiah. I have already covered this.
sscott. The catholic trinity concept is clearly wrong, however most of the other Christian churches are teaching the Bible Godhead which is truth. However it is unfortunate that they use the word “trinity” which sometimes confuses theirs with the Catholic teaching.
Beware of the false teachers here on this forum; they will lead you astray.
Christ describes them well.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:They are wilfully blind.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. sscott. I hope that I have addressed all of your concerns.
Hi CB,
You say
“This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah. Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn to work together and to serve each other.”Fantasy
Acts 26:24
While Paul was saying this in his defense, Festus said in a loud voice, “Paul, you are out of your mind! Your great learning is driving you mad.”NH.
If you cannot understand from scripture that God has a plan of salvation, perhaps your doctrine is still Watchtower.The Godhead is clear in scripture even if you are not.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him (Jesus), they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.Hi Cb,
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:Eusebius quotes an original of Matthew's gospel and it reads differently.
“..baptising them in my name..”
That explains why the apostles taught and did just that.
Acts 2
” 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”They were not in rebellion against Jesus baptising in his name.
Have you been baptised in the name of Jesus?
ACTS 4
“12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. “Cult wrote:Quote Hi CB:
You say,
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God.
Where is your scriptual proof of this. It seems to me that this an assumption on your part.
To Cult Buster.
You need to come out of the biggest of all cults, the Trinity Cult.
Pride and ignorance will keep you locked up inside. Humility and seeking the truth with all your heart will enable you to walk out.
Up to you.
t8
Quote Quote Hi CB:
You say,
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God.
Where is your scriptual proof of this. It seems to me that this an assumption on your part.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him (Jesus), My Lord and my God.
Come out of that cult t8. Watchtower doctrine will get you nowhere.
That last post should have been addressed to 942767 .
But the last line still applies to you t8.Come out of that cult t8. Watchtower doctrine will get you nowhere.
Hi CB,
If you read Jn 14 you will see that Jesus taught Thomas that when he saw Christ he also saw God for God was in him. His statement was correct.Quote Hi CB,
If you read Jn 14 you will see that Jesus taught Thomas that when he saw Christ he also saw God for God was in him. His statement was correct.NH
Yes because Jesus was the [Word], God in the flesh.
Quote Hi W,
So the Word is God Himself?
Then in what way was the Word WITH GOD in the beginning?NH
Do you deny the scripture. The Word was God.
Three beings NH, One God. Godhead. Father, Son and Holy Ghost!
“your quote NH”
“If scripture does not teach something
but you do
that makes you greater than scripture
and the Holy Spirit who wrote it thorough men does it not”?Hi W,
Jesus said
in Mk 12.29
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
but you say
“Three beings NH, One God. Godhead. Father, Son and Holy Ghost!”Whom should be believe?
Hi W,
We must know God is Lord.We should agree with the disciples
Acts 4
“24And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:25Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.”
Jesus is the HOLY CHILD of the LORD GOD
We, like the disciples do not pray to the child but the Father.
Acts 4
” 27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
29And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
30By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.”
God raised up Jesus, his child,
Acts 5
” 30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”
Acts 3
“13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. “
The Lord God has appointed Jesus to be our Lord under Himself.
Acts 2
“36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”Thus for us there is ONE LORD GOD, the Father and God of Jesus, and under Him ONE LORD of his people, JESUS.
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