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What's the Biblical (Hebrew) difference?
In many languages the word for the Supreme Being is God. In English we use God and in Greek Theos. In German (English) there are: Gott (God), Göttin (Goddess), Götter (Gods), Göttinnen (Goddesses)
This thread is discussing two of the most common words used in Hebrew for God, the Supreme Being; EL and ELOHIM.
It is not a thread to discuss “other” definitions of El or Elohim of which are used for other persons (angels, gods, people, rulers, etc). Other than for the Supreme Being Elohim is translated as “gods”.
I am trying to keep this specific for those wanting to broaden their horizons.
In English the Debate: God versus God would be illogical because God = God. However, in Hebrew the conceptual difference is monumental.
CAN YOU BREAK THE CODE?
Root:
El = God (noun, masculine, singular)
Eloh = God (noun, feminine, singular)Plural endings (suffixes) “m”, “t” (must agree with the gender of the root):
im = suffix (masculine, plural)
ot = suffix (feminine, plural)Plurals (examples):
Elim = Gods (masculine, plural)
Elohot = Gods (feminine, plural)Notice the root “Eloh” (feminine noun) + suffix “m” (masculine, plural) = Elohim and Elohim for the Supreme Being is considered SINGULAR.
Elohim is an anomaly and breaks grammar rules because the root “Eloh” needs to have a plural ending “ot” to make the word “Elohot”, however, it does not, it has Eloh + im.
By grammatical definition Elohim should be = Supreme Being, God (noun, masculine AND feminine, PLURAL*).
Therefore this debate is El (God) vs Elohim (God)…or El (noun, masc) vs Elohim (noun, masc & fem, singular) what's the difference?
50 years ago the Trinity Doctrine was the universally accepted norm for the “Godhead”. Now Jesus, the son of God has been eliminated from the Godhead leaving God, the Father and God, the Holy Spirit. How do they fit into your Theology? And how do they fit into the Hebrew words?
God Most High = Elohim (noun, masc & fem, singular*)
God, the Father = YHVH (noun, masculine)
(God) the Holy Spirit = Ruach HaKodesh (noun, feminine)Breaking the Code:
#1- How do you account for an entity with male and female essences yet is considered only ONE God?
#2- What pronoun would you use for Elohim? (Judaism uses “He”)
If you use:
“He” and you eliminate the existence of the female essence.
“She” and you eliminate the existence of the male essence.
“They” and you misrepresent the oneness of God.
“It” denies or eliminates the essence that you are describing.#3- Does your theology agree with the Hebrew language?
#4 – What does God say about this matter?
#5- Could Hebrew culture obscure the real God?
Those searching for the “truth” put on your thinking caps.
Good luck and happy writing.
Extra credit for Irene and Georg what would this mean in German “Göttiner”
There seems to be an increase in men going naked in television documentaries.
Does anyone else notice that there always has to be a 'man having a wee', 'man having someone kick or grab his nuts', 'some reference to male genitalia' in every film nowadays, almost as much as the 'pointless female, whose only role is to get chased, caught, tied up, stripped, …., rescued, fall in love with whomever wants her – the goody or/And the baddy, as they please.'
What does a woman get from such part?
Is it not strange how a woman cannot take her clothes off in front of her own husband in the privacy of their bedroom, BUT, she has no problem stripping off naked, for money, in front of a television camera, the output of which will be shown to millions?
David! You are new, so welcome!! since you are new I will respond to you…. God in German is Gott, no e on the end… Irene:D
Quote (Arnold @ July 21 2010,17:43) David! You are new, so welcome!! since you are new I will respond to you…. God in German is Gott, no e on the end… Irene:D
Hi Iren,Like Georg.
David
Quote (JustAskin @ July 21 2010,19:53) Nick, Is the thread relevant to anything?
Hi JA,I thought it was relevant regarding knowing God. Within the two words we see two different aspects of God.
I was hoping that the people would see that Elohim consists of two essences, male and female whereas El is only referring to the male essence.
All too often we use “God” in our posts not realizing that it means two different things and I was trying to increase knowledge in that respect.
And if one sought it they would see that the ONE God has two essences (male and female) by DEFINITION.
From the comments I see that apparently the thread was poorly written and not understood or was too deep for the interests of the masses.
At first I didn't know why Nick replied “sigh” until I saw the previous post from Martian.
The two threads are very similar.
David
Quote (Arnold @ July 21 2010,17:43) David! You are new, so welcome!! since you are new I will respond to you…. God in German is Gott, no e on the end… Irene:D
Hi Irene,I noticed in German how you have a masculine plural ending and a different plural ending for the feminine (just like Hebrew). So I tried to use the feminine base and add the masculine plural ending to see how it would come across in German.
David
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2010,15:36) Sigh
Hi NIck,Sorry about the duplicity. I didn't realize that Martian had posted something similar with 'Echad and Elohim which explains the ONE GOD aspect….and the boredom.
The only difference was that I was comparing the “Plural” God Elohim with the Singular “God” El….and hoping that the readers would see that Elohim consists of the male and female essences of Genesis 1:26-27 whereas El does not (El is only referring to the male essence of Elohim).
David
Davidbfun,
All over the forum, you seem to have only one theme: God as Male and Female.
Do you have another dimension that you can bring to the forum?Quote (JustAskin @ July 22 2010,18:24) Davidbfun, All over the forum, you seem to have only one theme: God as Male and Female.
Do you have another dimension that you can bring to the forum?
Hi JA,Yes I could talk about something else, what would you like to talk about?
If I am talking about God being male and female I must be addressing someone talking about God.
Let me ask a question, If someone keeps talking about Jesus being God and the second person in the Trinity how would you respond? With the same information, no?
As I responded to Nick earlier, NO ONE yet has addressed any points that I have made as being incorrect, why?
Also, another reason for repeating myself is that I feel that in order to discuss ideas you need to know what is the common understanding of the words. For example, the Jesus of the Mormons is different than the Jesus of the Bible so in order to discuss anything with them we have to have a consensus for what the word means.
As for me, I put myself right up front. I try to define the terms I use and put them into practice and try to be consistent throughout. Not like the Trinitarian's Jesus that is FULLY GOD and FULLY MAN.
Without my distinctions there is ambiguity and confusion: for example, A moderator said “God is one.” and I said “That's true, there is one God.” What he meant was that God (YHVH, El) is the one and only God and the Holy Spirit is a force of the one God (El). What I meant is that God (Elohim) is one consisting of YHVH and Holy Spirit as two distinct and separate “persons” in one “'Echad” God. And to avoid any confusion I specifically point out the essences of YHVH and Holy Spirit as being male/masculine and female/feminine.
Now we used the same words but did we mean the same thing? No.
What is more important than coming to agreement on who God is? Or God's son?
There's a lot of comments about God, the Father, YHVH etc. and then the dismissal of the Holy Spirit as a force or part of Him and deny to see the separate entity “person” of God known as the Holy Spirit. Just because they say it doesn't make it true. I try to address truth from Scripture and unfortunately the gender issue is at the forefront because it is neglected and mistaught.
Again, nobody yet has addressed any point scripturally that I've made as incorrect regarding the subject. Why not?
David
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