God maybe all in all

Participant

Hi all,

Tell me what you think this means to you.
Please make observations even if u must speculate, but admit that you are at least,
Qoute whats in scripture, dont hold abosulte truth to what is not said.
Im going to list some scriptures here and add what i think, or how i see it.
1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
All things subdued unto Jesus, Than He subjects everything to him who subjected the things that he also subjected, that God Maybe All, Everything, and In everything, in All.
Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
The body which is the church, is the fullness of Jesus Christ and he fillls everything, and in everything.
Ephesiasn 1:10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
all things gathered to Christ, heaven and eath, inside him. maybe the church idk.
Colossians 1:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
I was thinking alot, and considering context. I started to see how Paul made a comparison here. First he mentioned somethings and exhortions to the church in the begeing of the book. I notice that even in Phillipians Paul uses the speech “In whom” Many times i have used this part to show people that everytime he mentions we should be like Jesus, he goes into detail about how Jesus is or who he is.
than 14. he tells how we are redeeme by him.
15. image, is a limited state, so we could say physical, of the invisble God, the firt born of all creation. before all.
16: Jesus created everything. even the invisible by him and for him.
17. before all, everything consists through him.
18. Head of Church, first of the dead to live.
19. all fullness dwell in him.
20. reconciled by him, for himself, earth or in heaven.
21. we were enemies, now reconciled.

i kindof just wanted to mention my small thoughts about it above for you can kindof see how i see it.
Observations.
>Paul writes as if Jesus was the creator.
>Paul made a comparsion between The begginging of time and our reconcilation.
>Paul writes as if the Image, as a resperation of God, note: he did not say like the image of God, for ex: Man.
>When time began, Jesus existed. revelations. Alpha Omega.
>Jesus created everything, by him-for himself. not for someone.
>He is literally before all, and that all life and power that was mentioned consisted of him. (breath of life?) (bread of life) (never thirst again)
>Paul writes implying that Jesus is life.
>It please the father that All fullness dwell in him. (its please yaweh to crush him)
>Comparison between the Church with the Begining. in other words as he is the creator of the begginging he is also the head of the church. the first one to live again,
>All things have preeminence, in other words that he may be Superior in ALL THINGS, everything!
>The blood of the cross made peace,
>Major note: Notice how it keeps on talkign about first, it doesnt say it literally, but notice, how it continues to say, the first of all creation, the first of the dead, the first, this and that. before everything, everything came from and and his for him. In other words, there is a concept that is obessed with being First. only God should be First in our lives.

What do you think?

If you can inpret scripture, and feel free to use context!

Much love brothers and sisters!

May 30, 2010 at 9:49 am#193011

Participant

Hi SF,
Who will be left at that time?
It is after the judgement when the goats have met the fire.

May 30, 2010 at 9:50 am#193013

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2010,20:49)

Hi SF,
Who will be left at that time?
It is after the judgement when the goats have met the fire.

maybe you and I.

May 30, 2010 at 9:54 am#193015

Participant

Hi SF,
God's mercy triumphs over judgement [Jas2.13]and He is patient and kind and will seek to save all men but some choose death.[Mt25]

May 30, 2010 at 5:59 pm#193043

terraricca

Participant

and this;Mt 18:4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
She said, “Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom.”
Mt 20:26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—
Mt 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

now this is the world;Mt 20:25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.

only God is standing alone and first above all,but Christ is first in all creation in all things.

Pierre

May 30, 2010 at 7:16 pm#193049

Participant

Hi SimplyForgiven.
I read your post on “God maybe All in all”. I enjoyed it very much, you seem to be pointing in a direction that I have, and am still exploring, which is similar to the title you used.

May I make a few comments on your observations in this post?

Quote

Paul writes as if Jesus was the creator.

Yes He (Jesus) was the creator through the power of God.
Eph.1:10… to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —

Quote

When time began, Jesus existed. revelations. Alpha Omega.

Jesus was Gods first creation, all else was created by Jesus, through the power of God (Col.1:15 Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature, and Rev.3:14 …and God's Creative Original:)
The Alpha and Omega: The Alpha means 'first, beggining'. Omega means last, the consummation 1Cor.15:24 …thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father,

Quote

Comparison between the Church with the Begining. in other words as he is the creator of the begginging he is also the head of the church. the first one to live again,

The “body of Christ”, the ecclesia, are those chosen by God, Col.3:12 …Put on, then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, pitiful compassions, kindness, humility, meekness, patience,

I agree, “All is of God”. Ro.11:36.

I only picked some of your observations, so as not to get into too much detail. If you think these answers are of any use to your understanding, I will be pleased, if not, so be it.

God Bless, Jerry.

May 30, 2010 at 10:35 pm#193091

Participant

Hi ,
Yes many are called but few are CHOSEN

May 31, 2010 at 1:41 am#193114

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ May 31 2010,04:59)

now this is the world;Mt 20:25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.

only God is standing alone and first above all,but Christ is first in all creation in all things.

Pierre

terraricca.
The four gospels, including book of Mathew, was written to Israel, see matt.15:24 …Now He (Jesus), answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
We gentiles were not included in that era.

Blessings.

May 31, 2010 at 2:08 am#193119

Participant

Hi T,
The word of God is for all.

There are passages about the Law specific to those under the Law.

Jesus took God's message of reconciliation to the Jews and then God used those in Jesus to widen the options to include gentiles.

May 31, 2010 at 4:26 am#193142

Participant

Hey chosenone!
Your more than welcome to put your input! =)
Feel free, was your “free will” lets you, haha,
Get the humor?

Quote

You know, I would like to go deeper into this understanding my brother.
I see the scripture that you have used to prove your point that Jesus was created.
A really good support for the theory that the First thing God did was create Jesus.
The only problem i have with that, the reason that God even created was for us.
I do have scriptures to back this point up. Just taking Genesis, day by day creation, shows how each day something new was made.
God created a ecosystem to support life, so that he can create man, He always had us in mind. So let me add to the observations i mention. We notice that Jesus, is referred the Alpha and the Omega. Yet God is above time. Yet Jesus is the very image of the invisible God. Unlike Jesus, we are made unto the likness of Gods image, but we are not the very image. So in other words that Jesus is the image of the invisible. lets discuss what image means? we can describe in image, as something seen, with limits, something that one can touch and feel physically. Let me show you an example: can you see the way i feel? literally one cannot, but my facial expressions what is seen, the image of my face, gives off how i feel. I think this links back to Jesus and God. Jesus is the physical representation to the omnipresent God. To say that God is limited to what is spiritual is to say that he is limited, and also contradicts scripture when God very well took physical manifestations with Adam in the garden of Eden. (Scripture, im basically talking about Genesis, and collosians.) Point being that “Time” is a limitation, for God to take part in Time, would mean that he would have create time, He would be time in other words, he is First. again Time, space, and matter are limiationas that God has set for us, but he is not subjected of it. In other words by creating time, there was a beggining with God, He was in the Begining with God (John 1:1) and God is the end. As Paul rights, everything under time, was created by the Son, (according to paul in Col 1) Therefore that Jesus is the Action of God, the Image taking a role within time, space, and matter. Also to continue in the other observations, Jesus is Life. Why would Jesus be life yet not God? unless Jesus is the image of God taking action within this Time constricted universe. God is eternal. Making Jesus life, just makes his crucificion even more important. The fact that what hold life togethor came and died for us?

in other words brother, i dont know what i wrote makes sense to you, but in other words what im saying, is that once upon a time, there was no time. trying thinking about that and you will get a headache.

But before time there was only God, yet God is omnipresent, yet he is above time. do you see what im trying to reach too?

Quote

The “body of Christ”, the ecclesia, are those chosen by God, Col.3:12 …Put on, then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, pitiful compassions, kindness, humility, meekness, patience,

I think that God chose us from the very beginning, He knew who he was going to create, He also already knew who would choose him and who wouldnt.

Many blessing Jerry, You made great points. even though we differ in some aspects, what you say makes sense.

Much love,

May 31, 2010 at 4:32 am#193144

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ May 31 2010,12:41)

Quote (terraricca @ May 31 2010,04:59)

now this is the world;Mt 20:25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.

only God is standing alone and first above all,but Christ is first in all creation in all things.

Pierre

Blessings.

Actuall idk where you got that info but thats incorrect.

The gospel of John for example was written for the Church,
Luke says in Luke 1:1 was for Tiphloas, i think some greek man. who wasnt for the israel,
Mark who was in a hurry, was writting to gentils also i believe.
and mathew well i forgot who he was writing too, but i can find out for you.

John first chapter clarfies how israel rejected Jesus, and everything was open up for those who werent from the blood of israel.

us Gentiles were always in Gods mind.
Jonah to warn ninveh who repented, Nahum ditto, Ruth, was a gentile. Luke and mark were gentiles. The purpose of Israel was to save the world. the gentiles. To bring them back from the darkness, the Prophet nation, the nation that didnt help other nations, that killed the prophets that tried to help them, even the Son of God.

What do you think?

May 31, 2010 at 4:34 am#193145

terraricca

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ May 31 2010,12:41)

Quote (terraricca @ May 31 2010,04:59)

now this is the world;Mt 20:25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.

only God is standing alone and first above all,but Christ is first in all creation in all things.

Pierre

Blessings.

jesus died in aprox; 30 AD the door for the gentiles was open 31/2 years later, the 4 gospels were written many years after that so your argument does not stand ,and you should change it.

as he did to us.
Ac 15:9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
Ac 15:10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
Ac 15:11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Ac 15:12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
Ac 15:13 When they finished, James spoke up: “Brothers, listen to me.
Ac 15:14 Simon has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself.
Ac 15:15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written

Pierre

May 31, 2010 at 5:25 am#193156

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ May 31 2010,15:34)

Quote (chosenone @ May 31 2010,12:41)

Quote (terraricca @ May 31 2010,04:59)

now this is the world;Mt 20:25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.

only God is standing alone and first above all,but Christ is first in all creation in all things.

Pierre

Blessings.

jesus died in aprox; 30 AD the door for the gentiles was open 31/2 years later, the 4 gospels were written many years after that so your argument does not stand ,and you should change it.

Pierre

Great analysis!

May 31, 2010 at 8:42 pm#193264

Participant

Pierre.

Quote

jesus died in aprox; 30 AD the door for the gentiles was open 31/2 years later, the 4 gospels were written many years after that so your argument does not stand ,and you should change it.

I agree, the Gospels were written years later, the writings are the history of Jesus life, recorded in words. This does not change the fact that His (teachings) were for Israel and them only. His (Jesus) words in Matt.15:24 describes His pupose, which was, “Now He, answering, said, I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Why would you consider history to have changed? It was their (Israel) rejection of their promised Messiah that God divorsed them and turned to the gentiles. See Acts.13:46 …Being bold, both Paul and Barnabas, say, “To you (Israel) first was it necessary that the word of God be spoken. Yet, since, in fact, you are thrusting it away, and are judging yourselves not worthy of eonian life, lo! we are turning to the nations”.

To confirm this, see Ro.15:8 …For I (Paul) am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises.
And also see Ro.15:16 …for me (Paul) to be the minister of Christ Jesus for the nations, acting as a priest of the evangel of God, that the approach present of the nations may be becoming well received, having been hallowed by holy spirit.

To conclude, Jesus taught Israel the “Gospel of the kingdom”, while they were still under the “Law” and the “Old Covenant”.
Pauls message, Comissioned by Jesus, was to the “Nations” and was the “Covenant of Grace”.

So you see that scripture confirms what I said, it is you who are in error.

This is about what Paul says in 2.Tim.2:15 …Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth.

Also Col.1:25-29 …25 of which I (Paul) became a dispenser, in accord with the administration of God, which is granted to me for you, to complete the word of God —
26 the secret which has been concealed from the eons and from the generations, yet now was made manifest to His saints,
27 to whom God wills to make known what are the glorious riches of this secret among the nations, which is: Christ among you, the expectation of glory —
28 Whom we are announcing, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we should be presenting every man mature in Christ Jesus;
29 for which I am toiling also, struggling in accord with His operation, which is operating in me with power.

Remember, all scripture is “FOR” us, but all scripture is not “ABOUT” us.

God Bless, Jerry.

May 31, 2010 at 9:18 pm#193273

RokkaMan

Participant

Quote (chosenone @ June 01 2010,07:42)

Pierre.

Quote

jesus died in aprox; 30 AD the door for the gentiles was open 31/2 years later, the 4 gospels were written many years after that so your argument does not stand ,and you should change it.

So you see that scripture confirms what I said, it is you who are in error.

This is about what Paul says in 2.Tim.2:15 …Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth.

Remember, all scripture is “FOR” us, but all scripture is not “ABOUT” us.

God Bless, Jerry.

I can't find Pierre's quote where he says that to you…but i'm in agreement with you.

Anyone who disagrees with what your saying is disagreeing with scripture.

And to simpleforgiven, another great post man…keep up the good work!

I'll work with you to erase this division among christians.
People need to understand and be enlightened to God's word.

It seems like people pick and choose scripture, and don't take it in entirely.

The only use what benefits “their views”

May 31, 2010 at 11:06 pm#193293

Participant

Hi T,
CO imagines that Jesus being sent to Israel restricts all his words to them.
He also takes on himself to instead preach the words of the apostles to the saved as a new gospel to the world.

But he has to to defend his universalist dogma.

June 1, 2010 at 3:47 am#193347

terraricca

Participant

you seeme so sure of things, answer those few questions;

1) why did Christ has to come ?
2) why did he has to dies?
3) for whom did he die??
4) what was the reasons for him to make diciples ?
5) why Ninive was preach to and why were they saved?
6) why was the nation of Israel came to be ?
7) what was the purpose of God in creating the nation of Israel?
8) how could gentiles benefit from the creation of israel?
9) what make God love one and hate the other?
10) who is supplying all the information and works to be able to be saved?

those question and answers are no dogma ,they all are inside the scriptures.

Pierre

June 1, 2010 at 5:33 am#193377

Participant

Terraricca.
My understanding of Gods ways have scriptures quoted to prove what I write. I see no scriptures to support your views, yet you accuse me of falsehoods. Lets see some scriptures to prove those questions you posted, I'll bet you'll have difficulty doing so.

Blessings, Jerry.

June 1, 2010 at 5:42 am#193379

Participant

Thanks RokkaMan, a kind word now and then sure beats the browbeating I get from Nick and Peirre, who seldom include scripture when they disagree with me.

Many thanks, Jerry.

June 1, 2010 at 6:59 am#193397