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Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 27 2010,05:38) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,01:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 26 2010,11:33) thinker……> it is simple you just do not believe what Jesus said about GOD the FATHER being the “ONLY TRUE GOD” . It really is that simple if you just believed ONLY that one statement of Jesus you would have no trouble understanding the rest. You need to reread 2Ths2 and really think about it time is running short brother. IMO
Gene,It is simple that you give the words of Jesus more authority than the words of the Father. Jesus called the Father “God” and rhe Father called the Son “God” (Hebrews 1:8).
Both the Father and the Son spoke truth with EQUAL authority.
Why do you believe the Son but you don't believe the Father?
thinker
thinkerJhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Jhn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.Take your time reading this.
Georg
Georg,I have answered these already. Jesus was servant in the flesh. But He is exalted and glorified now.
You said so yourself that Jesus is “over all” now.
thinker
WorshippingJesus said to Georg:
Quote Yet Jesus said…”Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, “that the Son of God might be glorified” thereby. Jesus is being glorified just as the Father! Excellent Keith!
Jack
WJ
Have you missed the part that says, “but has committed all judgment to the son”?
Jesus was no ordinary man, he was the “son” of God in human form.Hbr 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
He was NOT half spirit/angel and half human/flesh; he was “ALL” flesh, that's what is meant by the seed of Abraham.
(Yet Jesus said…”Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby. Jesus is being glorified just as the Father!)
You're spinning; what Jesus was doing was for the “glory of God”, but, that by doing these things, he “MIGHT” be glorified too.
(If you are refering to Jesus saying that he can do nothing of his own initiative well those words were spoken in the days of his flesh before he returned to his previous Glory with the Father and is given All Authority and Power and now sits in the throne of God ruling as God.)
Some more spinning, Jesus now sits at the right hand of God, a place of highest honor. His previous glory was a spirit being, now he is a “glorified, Divine, immortal” spirit being.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
The Father “GAVE” immortality to the son, no one else but the Father had immortality before, and Jesus does not rule as God, in fact, he does not rule at all yet. He will be very shortly though.
Georg
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,06:40) WorshippingJesus said to Georg: Quote Yet Jesus said…”Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, “that the Son of God might be glorified” thereby. Jesus is being glorified just as the Father! Excellent Keith!
Jack
thinkerI admire your understanding of cartoons.
Georg
Quote You're spinning; what Jesus was doing was for the “glory of God”, but, that by doing these things, he “MIGHT” be glorified too.
GeorgeI am not spinning. Are you going to recieve any Glory for his works?
Only God gets Glory for his works!
The scripture is a dead giveaway that Jesus is equal to the Father!
For Jesus does the “Works of God”.
We let God work through us and God gets the Glory!
The book of Revelations clearly say “Jesus Alone” is worthy to take the book and to recieve Glory, Honour, Power and praise with the Father
You are spinning by not giving Jesus the same Honour as the Father!
Blessings WJ
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 27 2010,06:54) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,06:40) WorshippingJesus said to Georg: Quote Yet Jesus said…”Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, “that the Son of God might be glorified” thereby. Jesus is being glorified just as the Father! Excellent Keith!
Jack
thinkerI admire your understanding of cartoons.
Georg
I wish I could say the same thing about your understanding of your Savior who died for you.thinker
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 26 2010,14:52) Some more spinning, Jesus now sits at the right hand of God, a place of highest honor. His previous glory was a spirit being, now he is a “glorified, Divine, immortal” spirit being.
No GeorgeNo it is you that is spinning again….
And I beheld, and, lo, “in the midst of the throne” and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, “stood a Lamb” as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. Rev 5:6
Here is another one…
“For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them“, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Rev 7:17
Here is another one…
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of “the throne of God **and of the Lamb**“. Rev 22:1
Here is another one…
And there shall be no more curse: but “the throne of God and of the Lamb” shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: Rev 22:3
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:19
This is not future George!
Blessings WJ
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 26 2010,14:52) The Father “GAVE” immortality to the son, no one else but the Father had immortality before, and Jesus does not rule as God, in fact, he does not rule at all yet. He will be very shortly though.
GeorgeThis is a lie. Jesus most certainly does rule at this time!
Jesus must have been lying when he said…
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth“. Matt 28:19
By Jesus all things consist. Col 1:17
Blessings WJ
Georg said:
Quote The Father “GAVE” immortality to the son, no one else but the Father had immortality before, and Jesus does not rule as God, in fact, he does not rule at all yet. He will be very shortly though. Georg,
It is not saying that Jesus was given immortality. It means that he was given to be the source of eternal life to others.
The Greek word “have” means “to hold.” It means that the Father has given to the Son to hold life, that is, to be the source of life.In Him (Jesus) was life, and the life was the light of men John 1:4
thinker
Hi,
IMMORTALITY IS BY SHARING THE LIVING SPIRIT OF GOD.The devil and his angels may have thought them selves immortal but they await the fire.
Georg said:
Quote Father “GAVE” immortality to the son, no one else but the Father had immortality before, and Jesus does not rule as God, in fact, he does not rule at all yet. He will be very shortly though Oh my Lord! Lay not this sin to Georg's charge!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,08:47) Georg said: Quote Father “GAVE” immortality to the son, no one else but the Father had immortality before, and Jesus does not rule as God, in fact, he does not rule at all yet. He will be very shortly though Oh my Lord! Lay not this sin to Georg's charge!
thinker
tt If Christ had immortality He would not been able to die for us. He now can never die again because now He is deity and can]t die again. Also in
1 Corinth. 11:3 The head of every man is Christ, the head of Christ is God. They never were equal and never will be equal. It simple will never work if we don't have a Head , which is our Heavenly Father, but Christ is the head of the Church, us. Along with Ephesians 4:6 and Deut. 4:35, Deut. 6:4 , 1 Corinth. 8:20 all tell us that the Father LORD is above all.
The trinity is not of God but of men. I know that I have said all of this before, but we do have new members and for their sake I will say this.
The first Christians never taught the trinity. It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian who in the second century first came up with. The Apostles all were persecuted and died. Except John who was exiled to the Island of Patmos, where He wrote the Book of Revelations. It was the Roman Emperor Constantine who put a stop to all persecution and issued and edit to let all religion worship. He made Sunday a day of worship. Also the trinity doctrine. All Holy Days became Holidays. If you go to Leviticus 23 you will find them listed. Sad to me…..
In vain they do worship Me , teaching the commandment the doctrine of men. Math. 15:9
Peace and Love IreneQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,07:06) Quote You're spinning; what Jesus was doing was for the “glory of God”, but, that by doing these things, he “MIGHT” be glorified too.
GeorgeI am not spinning. Are you going to recieve any Glory for his works?
Only God gets Glory for his works!
The scripture is a dead giveaway that Jesus is equal to the Father!
For Jesus does the “Works of God”.
We let God work through us and God gets the Glory!
The book of Revelations clearly say “Jesus Alone” is worthy to take the book and to recieve Glory, Honour, Power and praise with the Father
You are spinning by not giving Jesus the same Honour as the Father!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Romans 8:18: For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are
not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.2Cor:3:18: But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.2Cor.1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;Ed J
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2010,19:12) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,07:06) Quote You're spinning; what Jesus was doing was for the “glory of God”, but, that by doing these things, he “MIGHT” be glorified too.
GeorgeI am not spinning. Are you going to recieve any Glory for his works?
Only God gets Glory for his works!
The scripture is a dead giveaway that Jesus is equal to the Father!
For Jesus does the “Works of God”.
We let God work through us and God gets the Glory!
The book of Revelations clearly say “Jesus Alone” is worthy to take the book and to recieve Glory, Honour, Power and praise with the Father
You are spinning by not giving Jesus the same Honour as the Father!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Romans 8:18: For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are
not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.2Cor:3:18: But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.2Cor.1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;Ed J
EDYes, but are you getting any credit for that Glory that you share or any Glory for any works the Holy Spirit does through you?
Jesus alone is worthy to take the book! All of creation will cast their crowns before him.
So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness.* And we have seen his glory, “the glory of the only Son of the Father” Jesus is the “Only Son of God”! We are adopted sons! John 1:14
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,12:28) ED Yes, but are you getting any credit for that Glory that you share or any Glory for any works the Holy Spirit does through you?
WJ
Hi WJ,Romans 8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs;
heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him,
that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings
of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.Rv:14:13: And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea,
saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2010,20:46) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,12:28) ED Yes, but are you getting any credit for that Glory that you share or any Glory for any works the Holy Spirit does through you?
WJ
Hi WJ,Romans 8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs;
heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him,
that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings
of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.Rv:14:13: And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea,
saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.
EDNice try. But being a joint heir with Christ doesn't mean that we earned it or deserve any glory for it.
We will recieve rewards but then we will still give him all the Glory!
Jesus is the reason for us being a joint heir with him.
No comparison my friend. I know it must break your heart to think that somehow we are not nor ever will be equal to Jesus!
Blessings WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2010,20:46) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,12:28) ED Yes, but are you getting any credit for that Glory that you share or any Glory for any works the Holy Spirit does through you?
WJ
Hi WJ,Romans 8:16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs;
heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him,
that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings
of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.Rv:14:13: And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea,
saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.
EDDo you take any credit for God working through you?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,12:28) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 26 2010,19:12) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 27 2010,07:06) Quote You're spinning; what Jesus was doing was for the “glory of God”, but, that by doing these things, he “MIGHT” be glorified too.
GeorgeI am not spinning. Are you going to recieve any Glory for his works?
Only God gets Glory for his works!
The scripture is a dead giveaway that Jesus is equal to the Father!
For Jesus does the “Works of God”.
We let God work through us and God gets the Glory!
The book of Revelations clearly say “Jesus Alone” is worthy to take the book and to recieve Glory, Honour, Power and praise with the Father
You are spinning by not giving Jesus the same Honour as the Father!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Romans 8:18: For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are
not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.2Cor:3:18: But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.2Cor.1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;Ed J
EDYes, but are you getting any credit for that Glory that you share or any Glory for any works the Holy Spirit does through you?
Jesus alone is worthy to take the book! All of creation will cast their crowns before him.
So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness.* And we have seen his glory, “the glory of the only Son of the Father” Jesus is the “Only Son of God”! We are adopted sons! John 1:14
WJ
Hi WJ,
Nonsense.Jesus is not the only son of God as others are shown often in scripture-Adam, the jewish people, angels etc.
But he is the MONOGENES son.
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 27 2010,10:15) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 27 2010,08:47) Georg said: Quote Father “GAVE” immortality to the son, no one else but the Father had immortality before, and Jesus does not rule as God, in fact, he does not rule at all yet. He will be very shortly though Oh my Lord! Lay not this sin to Georg's charge!
thinker
tt If Christ had immortality He would not been able to die for us. He now can never die again because now He is deity and can]t die again. Also in
1 Corinth. 11:3 The head of every man is Christ, the head of Christ is God. They never were equal and never will be equal. It simple will never work if we don't have a Head , which is our Heavenly Father, but Christ is the head of the Church, us. Along with Ephesians 4:6 and Deut. 4:35, Deut. 6:4 , 1 Corinth. 8:20 all tell us that the Father LORD is above all.
The trinity is not of God but of men. I know that I have said all of this before, but we do have new members and for their sake I will say this.
The first Christians never taught the trinity. It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian who in the second century first came up with. The Apostles all were persecuted and died. Except John who was exiled to the Island of Patmos, where He wrote the Book of Revelations. It was the Roman Emperor Constantine who put a stop to all persecution and issued and edit to let all religion worship. He made Sunday a day of worship. Also the trinity doctrine. All Holy Days became Holidays. If you go to Leviticus 23 you will find them listed. Sad to me…..
In vain they do worship Me , teaching the commandment the doctrine of men. Math. 15:9
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Your husband said that Christ does not rule at all now. This is thorughly heretical and it is time for you to worry. Jesus is a the right hand of His Father reigning as “King of kings and Lord of lords.” I am not even going to bother with Georg again. He has totally lost it now. Again, it is time for you to worry.
I do not accept your interpretation of the verses you have provided. Deuteronomy 6:4 says that the Lord your God (Elohim) is One Lord.” The word “Elohim” is PLURAL and the word “one” is the Hebrew “echad” which indicates a plural unity and not a solitary unity. We have been over this a zillion times here but you won't hear it.
Paul's statement about God being the head of Christ was old covenant. He said also that the man is the head of the woman. This does not apply today. Paul clearly said that that the Son “will be” subject to the Father. This means that when Paul wrote the Son was not subject to the Father. Otherwise the statement that He “will be” subject makes no sense.
Georg said that Christ is “over all.” Now he says that Christ does not reign at all now. So who is Christ “over” if He does not reign at all now?
Georg has also said that the new covenant has not been fulfilled. This is clearly the doctrines of men like Ryrie and others. The Christian church NEVER taught such heresy until J.N. Darby in the 1830's. Georg says that the new covenant will be fulfilled in the millennium which is a “covenant of obedience.” But the old testament was the covenant of obedience. So the millennium would be a return to the old covenant. Can't you see how confused your husband really is?
He says that the new covenant has not been fulfilled but will be fulfilled in the millennium which is a “covenant of obedience.” But the covenant of obbedience is old covenant. This means that the new covenant must be fulfilled AFTER the millennium. So from now until the end of the millennium there will be no new covenant.
But Paul said of himself and the apostles, “We are the administrators of the new covenant” (2 Corinthians 3:6). If the apostles were the administrators of the new covenant, then how can the new covenant be in the future?
Georg said:
Quote This is how it reads in my Bible. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Christ is over all, and that is why Paul blesses God for.
Georg originally said that Christ is over all and this is why Paul blesses God. Now he says that Christ does not reign at all now.
Confusion is the necessary result when one clings to the doctrine of men as your husband Georg. If I had said that Christ does not reign at all now my wife would have my hide. I believe this would break the heart of your Baptist son.
thinker
To all,
Please be mindfull of how you attribute what the apostles wrote concerning themselves and those whom God has appointed to eternal iplife through Christ.Many here are claiming, like some Jehovah Witnesses, that They are one like unto the apostles and will occupy the 'High Place' and rule with Christ.
Even John the Baptist, the scriptures say, will not be one of those in Heaven.
We will not all be 'Heirs of God' (heavenly Sons of God Almighty).
We will not all be 'joint heirs with Christ' (Rulers with Christ 'on His own throne' over his appointed Kingdom)The hope, not the assumption…
Look first to a Paradise life on the restored Earth and 'Glory, Honor and Peace' to those whom are elected and judged worthy by God through Christ.
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