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Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 25 2010,04:07) TT, “44 Pharaoh also said to Joseph, “I am Pharaoh, and without your consent no man may lift his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.” … – or else he will have me to deal with!!
What does this mean?
paraphrase:
“God also said to Jesus, 'I am God, and without your consent no man may gain the kingdom of heaven'” – or else he will have me to deal with
The statement “I am Pharoah” means that if Pharoah said something it was law. Pharoah said to Joseph, “My people shall be ruled according to your word.”The Father said, “I am God.” It means that if He says that Christ is God and Lord (Heb. 1:8) then you had better accept it.
Jesus wears His Father's crown as Joseph wore Pharoah's signet ring. This means that God's people are ruled by the word of Jesus as Pharoah's people were ruled by the word of Joseph!
Get with the program!
thinker
thinker
Let me try again.
1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
Did not the Father put all thinks under his, the sons, feet? and is it not true that the one who put all things under his feet, is excepted from being put under his feet?
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Does it not say that when all things are subdued, conquered, the son will be subject to the Father again as well? where do you see equality in this?
Georg
TT, Why does not God say to jesus: “You are God [in my place]”?
In which case we would be Worshiping Jesus Christ even Now.
But we are not – so what is the problem: God : No Worship?
If you do say we Worship Jesus – Show me where and how that is done – I know nowhere?
What is Worship, to you? – I notice that you do not say…?
Ha ha – TT, You are amazing….
So Joseph could make love to Pharoahs wife – becasue He (Joseph) IS Pharoah (representatively) or he could make representative love to Pharoah's wife? ha ha – do you not read what happened when Haman touched the knee of the wife of the King even though he (Haman) was the 'King, representatively!) Book of Esther – read it!
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 24 2010,04:12) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses. * The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority.
thinker
Hi TT,Thinker's logic is amazing.
Major premise: Pharaoh was over all Egypt.
Minor premise: Joesph was over all in Egypt.
Conclusion: Therefore, Pharaoh was Joseph?
Bad analogy!Joseph didn't sit in the throne of Pharoah.
Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God!
WJ
WJ,
Quote Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God! Please show me where you got that statement from.
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 25 2010,05:25) TT, Why does Pharoah not say “You are Pharoah…”? then we would not be having this debate?
JA,You are avoiding the issue. The statement “I am Pharoah” is the authority on which Pharoah pronounced that Joseph would would rule according to his own word and that no man could even lift his hand or foot without Joseph's consent.
Joseph did not need to “consult” Pharoah in anything he did. You are just avoiding the fact that God has made Jesus YOUR Lord.
Any internal affairs between Joseph and the Pharoah was none of the people's concern. So even if Jesus was under the Father as you suggest makes no difference. Your only concern is that you are to obey the word of Jesus as the people were to obey the word of Joseph.
thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 25 2010,05:45) WJ, Quote Jesus sits in the throne of God ruling as God! Please show me where you got that statement from.
It is from Hebrews 1:8. We have directed you to the passage a thousand times. You probably whited it out and forgot about it.thinker
Georg said:
Quote Does it not say that when all things are subdued, conquered, the Son will be subject to the Father again as well? where do you see equality in this?
Georg,Do YOU live in the time when the Son is subject or not subject? And what has His being subject in another time have to do with you NOW?
thinker
TT,
What – that? Do you not know that Jesus will receive his OWN kingdom within that of his Father – it is to this that the verse alludes to.Is this what you want to claim as your “Proof”?
Jesus is given power and authority to rule over God's kingdom, to bring it into order – and 'Complete the work of [his] father'.
When this is done, Jesus hand the reconciled Kingdom back to his Father and acquires his own rulership “King of kings and Lord of lords” over mankind:Quote
[God Almighty]
Above ALL – and In ALL
KING OF KINGS 'and' LORD OF LORDS (Emphasis mine)Quote
|
|_ _ _[Elders, Seraphims, Cherubims]?
|
[ Jesus Christ]
Above all Human and Angel
“King of kings and Lord of lords” over all mankindQuote
|
|_ _ _[Heavenly Saints] – Rulers with Christ
|_ _ _ [The Angelic Host including ArchAngels]?
|Quote
|
|_ _ _ [Eartlhy Saints] – Rulers over mankind
|Quote
[Mankind]
Above all Animal kind
This is how I see the order of God's KingdomQuote (JustAskin @ Feb. 25 2010,06:20) TT,
What – that? Do you not know that Jesus will receive his OWN kingdom within that of his Father – it is to this that the verse alludes to.Is this what you want to claim as your “Proof”?
Jesus is given power and authority to rule over God's kingdom, to bring it into order – and 'Complete the work of [his] father'.
When this is done, Jesus hand the reconciled Kingdom back to his Father and acquires his own rulership “King of kings and Lord of lords” over mankind:Quote
[God Almighty]
Above ALL – and In ALL
KING OF KINGS 'and' LORD OF LORDS (Emphasis mine)Quote
|
|_ _ _[Elders, Seraphims, Cherubims]?
|
[ Jesus Christ]
Above all Human and Angel
“King of kings and Lord of lords” over all mankindQuote
|
|_ _ _[Heavenly Saints] – Rulers with Christ
|_ _ _ [The Angelic Host including ArchAngels]?
|Quote
|
|_ _ _ [Eartlhy Saints] – Rulers over mankind
|Quote
[Mankind]
Above all Animal kind
This is how I see the order of God's Kingdom
JA,You have quite an imagination. I'll give you that. Jesus purchased the kingdom with His own blood. We are HIS people.
“looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.” Titus 2:13-14
It says that Jesus is our “great God and Savior.” It says that He Himself purchased us as a people for HIS OWN POSSESSION.”
He bought the kingdom. He is the rightful owner of it. He may do whatsoever He wills. Someday He will of His own volition yield up the kingdom. But He does not have to do it.
You give lip service that Jesus is “King of kings and Lord of lords.” I don't think you mean it.
thinker
So, TT,
What ARE you saying is wrong with what I diagrammed.Jesus indeed HAS his own Kingdom – and it is over Mankind – What ARE you really saying – That you actually agree but can't bring yourself to say so?
TT,
It is as I said: You are trying to put Jesus above God – not equal (That's what you write – but not what you mean!)
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 25 2010,06:43) So, TT,
What ARE you saying is wrong with what I diagrammed.Jesus indeed HAS his own Kingdom – and it is over Mankind – What ARE you really saying – That you actually agree but can't bring yourself to say so?
JA,The very first part of your diagram is a HALF TRUTH and is therefore a falsehood. You say that God Almighty is above all and in all. But you exclude Jesus Christ is also above all and in all. By your omission of this part you speak a falsehood.
You apply truths in a similar way that satan did. Thethinker sees through these things.
thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 25 2010,06:44) TT, It is as I said: You are trying to put Jesus above God – not equal (That's what you write – but not what you mean!)
Show me.thinker
Hi TT,
You quote Phil 2 showing that Jesus chose submission to his God yet in the same breath offer us that he is an equal god alongside his God?JA
TT is only half christian ,believe me it shows all over his quotes ,look in other topics.
he is truthful to himself,he believe s what he feel like to believe.
he looks for new blood and then kind tease them
TT,
the whole tenor of your posts is such that it implies that God has no [final] say in what is happening in his Kingdom. That it is Jesus who is and will be 'running the show – even after 'handing the kingdon back to his father'. How does that work?ALL THINGS are still contained WITHIN the Father, WITHIN GOD – There is no OUTSIDE of GOD.
God is the COMPLETE ENERGY of EVERYTHING, it is from God that the Spiritual world is brought into being and the physical word is created.
The atoms, protons, neutrons, nuetrino, particles and everthing in the physical universe is pure ENERGY compressed to form physical elements perfectly balanced and weighted and numbered in value and connective potential to form all the molecular elements that are the building blocks of the universe.
The potential of every element is known to God, the formational limits of all are known to him – he knows exactly how everything will behave in all circumstances and situations and can calculate their performance over ALL times.
The physical world has thus been limited to mankind so that we do not create something that is outside the tolerance limits of human existance – or at least God will step in to stop us if we touched on it – The Nuclear Bombs for instance (God has stepped in to control the usage of it so that we do not destroy ourselves as Satan would guide us into doing had God not sworn him to back off from it.
The scientist that are discovering the 'secrets of God' have discovered only the physical and claim to e onto the metaphysical – they cannot touch the Spiritual, that is complete foreign territory and that is why most scientists are scheptics, or athiests. Satan has given them the power to try and proveGod doesn't exist because they can measure and weigh and order God's physcial creation.But ask them these TWO QUESTIONS:
“Why (for what purpose – for what reason – to what end)?”
and
“How (from what source, from what impetus, from within or without itself)”?The physical world is a great and glorious creation brought about by the mind of God. He created it for his own pleasure – and wonderful it is (as was) too. But a Jealous helper – the most highly decorated angel, on seing the wondrous creation of a physical being giving Worship to the ONE God from came all things, remembering all the 'glorious work' that he did bred in himself a sinful state, desiring that Worship should also be given to him for the Glorious work that he did. But lo, God said NO!, worship is for me alone and you ahve sinned with your lust for the High Place. So Satan, the Devil, as he became known, went off to make war with humnaity – God's wonderful sentient creation into whom HE (God) blew his Spirit force and made a perfect physical being, autonomous in it's environment, a god in the physical, who can also Create, destroy, to build, to do or not do with Free will, to Worship Him, God.
But God knew that mankind would sin and that Satan would raise the question: Why should God alone receive Worship, did WE also not create as well as lay down, cover over, pull up , push down? So, knowing all things before hand (and is it that hard to think, humanly like God: Do we not, in preparing a great development, prepare Contingency measure, Disaster recovery plans, Business Continuity initiatives – for are we not also gods!) God prepared a special ONE of the Spiritual beings (Contraversial) from the “Beginning” who would be the activist of that Disaster recovery Plan, and in the fullness of time that ONE was called into action – became man and perfectly executed the DR plan.
Afterwards, taking his place in the High Place of God, beside his God, and given rulership over that kingdom covering Mankind to rule for ever with his scepter of righteousness – tht is, noone can question his rulership for he has proved himself worthy and noone can challenge God as to anything that God does for all questions have been asked and faithfully answered and the questioners, the naysayers, the accusers, the devil and his horde of unfaithful angels,and DEath Through Sin AND Death itself will all be destroyed.That one will have completed the work his father – yes his father – for God Begot that ONE as his Son, the perfect heavenly Prince to His God's Kingship, himself the heavenly King over all kings of mankind, mankind being kings over all the [other] created beings on earth.
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