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Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,11:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,06:40) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,06:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,05:15) Hi TT,
Why does it surprise you that when Christ is given all authority by his [greater] God he is lord of all?
It is simple but simplicity is not your style.
Nick,Christ was given the authority that He for our sakes yielded of His own volition (Philippians 2). Anyway, you do admit then that Christ is “over all” and that He is God to YOU?
You do admit then that the Father alone is not “over all?”
What Christ is to the Father is one thing. But what He is to YOU is the real issue isn't it?
thinker
Hi TT,
So show us from Phil 2 that Jesus had ALL AUTHORITY and gave it up.
Nick,You have been shown it before. He existed in the form of God but did not grasp on to His equality. he emptied Himself and took the form of a servant.
Seems clear to me!
thinker
Hi TT,
That does not relate to having ALL AUTHORITY.
That was given to him.[Mt28]Do you have any scriptures that do support your latest intellectual fancy?
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 19 2010,07:02) TT, once again:
1 Corinthians 15:27: for “God has put everything under his feet.” Now when he says, “Everything has been put under him,” this clearly excludes the one who put everything under him.”
God is not equal to Jesus.
God gives – Jesus is 'given'When Jesus accomplishes he gives back that which was given (him plus more).
Do you not know the parable of the Talents?
JA,You left out verses 25-26:
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death
Verses 25-26 say that Christ Himself puts down His enemies and that the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Uh…. I hate to have to break the news to you but it is Jesus who destroys death:
…but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel 2 Timothy 1:10
Then in verse 27 Paul said that God puts down Christ's enemies AFTER having said that Christ Himself destroys His enemies.
So when you say that God alone puts down Christ's enemies you become guilty of speaking half truths again. Don't forget that a half truth is a LIE!
Verse 57 strengthens my point:
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord.”
There it is! It is both God and Jesus Christ who destroys all enemies. But you seem bent on your half truths and on robbing Jesus of His redemptive work.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,11:33) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,11:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,06:40) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,06:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,05:15) Hi TT,
Why does it surprise you that when Christ is given all authority by his [greater] God he is lord of all?
It is simple but simplicity is not your style.
Nick,Christ was given the authority that He for our sakes yielded of His own volition (Philippians 2). Anyway, you do admit then that Christ is “over all” and that He is God to YOU?
You do admit then that the Father alone is not “over all?”
What Christ is to the Father is one thing. But what He is to YOU is the real issue isn't it?
thinker
Hi TT,
So show us from Phil 2 that Jesus had ALL AUTHORITY and gave it up.
Nick,You have been shown it before. He existed in the form of God but did not grasp on to His equality. he emptied Himself and took the form of a servant.
Seems clear to me!
thinker
Hi TT,
That does not relate to having ALL AUTHORITY.
That was given to him.[Mt28]Do you have any scriptures that do support your latest intellectual fancy?
Nick,It says that He made Himself of no reputation. So He went down from Lord to servant.
Anyway, He is over all WITH God now. What are you going to do with this? I hope you choose obedience.
thinker
Hi TT,
No just tell us what is says.
Does it say he had all authority or is this another unwise assumption??Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) Georg said: Quote This is how it reads in my Bible. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Christ is over all, and that is why Paul blesses God for.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=310TO ALL:
Georg has admitted that Christ is “over all” (bold letters). Yet Georg and Irene have repeatedly said in the past that only the Father is above (over) all.
Ephesians 4:6 Young's Literal translation:
6one God and Father of all, who [is] over all, and through all, and in you all,Romans 9:5:
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses.
* The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority. Georg has repeatedly said that only the Father is over all. Now Georg admits that Christ is over all. I have asked Georg and Irene to reply and I get nuttin.
Does anyone else here want to go for it?
thinker
thinkerEph 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Does it not say, “Of” Jesus Christ, “by” the will of God?
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Does it not say, “from” God our Father, “and from” the Lord Jesus Christ?
Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Does it not say, the God “and” Father “of” our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do scriptures really matter to you?
Georg
thinker
You do not understand why the Father has given to the son all authority.
What was the job of Jesus here on earth? to die for our sins.
What does sin do? it separates us from the Father.
When will “all” sin be removed? when the last enemy, Satan, has been destroyed.1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;What happens then?
1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
Who is the one that put all things, “gave” the authority, to whom? And who is the one that is excepted from being put under his feet, authority? It had to be one that gave, and one that received.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Does this verse really need extra explanation?
So then, who is “all”, would you agree that “all” are those that did not die the second death?
Only “after” all sin has been removed, will the Father dwell with man again, and take over authority.Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2010,11:46) Hi TT,
No just tell us what is says.
Does it say he had all authority or is this another unwise assumption??
Nick,Does it need to be written in the sky for you?
His making Himself of no reputation means that He gave up His rank from the position of ____ to servant. You fill in the blank.
thinker
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 19 2010,19:33) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) Georg said: Quote This is how it reads in my Bible. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Christ is over all, and that is why Paul blesses God for.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=310TO ALL:
Georg has admitted that Christ is “over all” (bold letters). Yet Georg and Irene have repeatedly said in the past that only the Father is above (over) all.
Ephesians 4:6 Young's Literal translation:
6one God and Father of all, who [is] over all, and through all, and in you all,Romans 9:5:
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses.
* The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority. Georg has repeatedly said that only the Father is over all. Now Georg admits that Christ is over all. I have asked Georg and Irene to reply and I get nuttin.
Does anyone else here want to go for it?
thinker
thinkerEph 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Does it not say, “Of” Jesus Christ, “by” the will of God?
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Does it not say, “from” God our Father, “and from” the Lord Jesus Christ?
Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Does it not say, the God “and” Father “of” our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do scriptures really matter to you?
Georg
Georg,You are not owning up to what you have said in the past. You have repeatedly said that the Father ALONE is over all. Now you admit that Jesus Christ is over all.
Does this not mean that the Father and the Son are EQUAL in authority?
You think that Christ is inferior because the Father exalted Him. But WJ and I have answered this a million times. Paul said that Jesus made Himself nothing and took the form of a servant.
The Father did not make Jesus nothing. Jesus made Himself nothing and so God exalted Him. Jesus became inferior on His own.
He was ORIGINALLY equal with God but became under God ON HIS OWN.
You are insincere because you say now that Jesus is “over all” but still try to find a way to dance around it.
CHRIST IS OVER ALL. YES OR NO!
Geez! What is so difficult about this?
thinker
Georg said:
Quote What happens then? 1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
Who is the one that put all things, “gave” the authority, to whom? And who is the one that is excepted from being put under his feet, authority? It had to be one that gave, and one that received.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Georg,You guys are given to half truths. Look at verses 25-26
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death
Note that it says that Christ Himself destroys His enemies. Then in verse 27 it says that God will bring His enemies into subjection.
Therefore, God does not bring Christ's enemies under Christ's subjection until Christ first destroys all enemies Himself. When Christ destroys the last enemy which is death, then God will bring those enemies under Christ's subjection.
Do you know what it means not to tell the WHOLE truth Georg? If you do not tell the WHOLE truth in a court of law you are guilty of perjury. You do not tell the WHOLE truth Georg. Christ the Judge is not at all pleased.
10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Who is it that abolishes death Georg?
After Christ has destroyed His enemies God will bring them into subjection under Christ. Anti-trinitarians like to leave out the part that it is Christ Himself who actually destroys all enemies. THEN Christ will be subject to the Father.
But until then Christ is the “ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords.”
CHRIST IS OVER ALL. YES OR NO!
thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 19 2010,08:49) Nick, I agree – I was in a passion – like Jesus got into when he overturned the money changers in the temple.
zealous……….interestingQuote But until then Christ is the “ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords.” is he the lord of host, tt?
TT,
I think you are trying to make Jesus into an autonomous entity acting independ from his Father.
All that Jesus does is IN HIS Father, WITH HIS Father, BY MEANS OF HIS Father. This means “BY MEANS of the HOLY SPIRIT”.
When God say “I will do this” or “I will do that” and then sends 'someone' to do it – that 'someone', locally is seen doing the thing (YES), but it is GOD who is 'HAVING IT DONE'.
Take everyday examples:
Wealthy Man to friend: “I am building my house over there, on top of that hill”
Friend: “How are you going to get the material up there”
WM: “I'm going to lay a hardocre road and bring in hill climber crane equipment”Later on, at the site:
Project Manager to Workers: “Right, I am starting the build on this house, here are the plans”
PM to crane Driver: “I have had the hardcore laid – you can start bringing in the materials now.”TT,
Please can you see the analogy.
Is the Project Manager acting autonomously or under the orders (Guidance) of the Wealthy Man?
Is the Wealthy Man the one who is 'physically' ding the crane driving, physically laying the hardcore road, physically raising up his building?have I not given this type of example before to you???
TT,
Has the Wealthy man not 'handed all thing into the hands of the project manager'?If the project is seen to be going wrong the WM can take the project back from the PM.
If it is going well the PM continues to completion when he will be justly rewarded.
On completion the PM hand the building over to the WM – it is not HIS HOUSE while he is building it – he know at all times that it belongs to HIM WHO GAVE HIM THE POWER (The cash, the land, the workers) AND AUTHORITY (Headman to judge the workers output, the plans over what is required and make changes where required) TO BUILD IT in the first place.
THe PM does not have ALL authority meaning even over or equal to the WM because the (Wise) PM would not radically change the plans, would not spend more cash than was 'authorised', etc. So clearly the WM is STILL in charge over the PM.
Quote (princess of the king @ Feb. 19 2010,22:30) Quote But until then Christ is the “ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords.” is he the lord of host, tt?
Yes Jesus is the Lord of “hosts” (angels). The “hosts” (angels) are commanded to WORSHIP Him.5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?And again:
“ I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“ Let all the angels [hosts] of God WORSHIP Him.” Hebrews 1:6
thinker
JustAskin said:
Quote I think you are trying to make Jesus into an autonomous entity acting independ from his Father.
Where did I say that. I clearly said that the Son AND the Father destroys all enemies.It is you who says that the Father acts independently of the Son. Paul CLEARLY said that the Son will subjugate His enemies (vss. 25-26). Then verse 27 says that God will do it.
The Father does not act independently of the Son. Paul said this:
“But thanks be to God who gives us the victory THROUGH our Lord Jesus Christ” vs. 57
The sun gives life through the rays it radiates. Jesus is the radiance of God' glory and so God does nothing without Him.
Will it ever sink in?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 18 2010,19:42) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 19 2010,07:02) TT, once again:
1 Corinthians 15:27: for “God has put everything under his feet.” Now when he says, “Everything has been put under him,” this clearly excludes the one who put everything under him.”
God is not equal to Jesus.
God gives – Jesus is 'given'When Jesus accomplishes he gives back that which was given (him plus more).
Do you not know the parable of the Talents?
JA,You left out verses 25-26:
For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death
Verses 25-26 say that Christ Himself puts down His enemies and that the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Uh…. I hate to have to break the news to you but it is Jesus who destroys death:
…but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel 2 Timothy 1:10
Then in verse 27 Paul said that God puts down Christ's enemies AFTER having said that Christ Himself destroys His enemies.
So when you say that God alone puts down Christ's enemies you become guilty of speaking half truths again. Don't forget that a half truth is a LIE!
Verse 57 strengthens my point:
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord.”
There it is! It is both God and Jesus Christ who destroys all enemies. But you seem bent on your half truths and on robbing Jesus of His redemptive work.
thinker
JackExcellent point!
The Arians only see one side of the coin! They see the scriptures in one dimension, customized to fit their manmade doctrines, and designed to reduce Jesus to something less than who and what he is.
Trinitarians seek to magnify Jesus, they seek to diminish him!
Blessings WJ
JustAskin said:
Quote TT,
Please can you see the analogy.
Is the Project Manager acting autonomously or under the orders (Guidance) of the Wealthy Man?
Is the Wealthy Man the one who is 'physically' ding the crane driving, physically laying the hardcore road, physically raising up his building?have I not given this type of example before to you???
But if the Project Manager purchases the Company from the wealthy man then the PM acts on His own authority.
Jesus purchased the kingdom with His own blood and it is therefore HIS kingdom to rule however He wants.
Jesus is the “wealthy man!” His apostles were the “Project Managers.” We are the workers.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,21:26) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 19 2010,19:33) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) Georg said: Quote This is how it reads in my Bible. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Christ is over all, and that is why Paul blesses God for.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=310TO ALL:
Georg has admitted that Christ is “over all” (bold letters). Yet Georg and Irene have repeatedly said in the past that only the Father is above (over) all.
Ephesians 4:6 Young's Literal translation:
6one God and Father of all, who [is] over all, and through all, and in you all,Romans 9:5:
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses.
* The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority. Georg has repeatedly said that only the Father is over all. Now Georg admits that Christ is over all. I have asked Georg and Irene to reply and I get nuttin.
Does anyone else here want to go for it?
thinker
thinkerEph 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Does it not say, “Of” Jesus Christ, “by” the will of God?
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Does it not say, “from” God our Father, “and from” the Lord Jesus Christ?
Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Does it not say, the God “and” Father “of” our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do scriptures really matter to you?
Georg
Georg,You are not owning up to what you have said in the past. You have repeatedly said that the Father ALONE is over all. Now you admit that Jesus Christ is over all.
Does this not mean that the Father and the Son are EQUAL in authority?
You think that Christ is inferior because the Father exalted Him. But WJ and I have answered this a million times. Paul said that Jesus made Himself nothing and took the form of a servant.
The Father did not make Jesus nothing. Jesus made Himself nothing and so God exalted Him. Jesus became inferior on His own.
He was ORIGINALLY equal with God but became under God ON HIS OWN.
You are insincere because you say now that Jesus is “over all” but still try to find a way to dance around it.
CHRIST IS OVER ALL. YES OR NO!
Geez! What is so difficult about this?
thinker
thinkerDo you need my reply in braille?
Georg
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 20 2010,03:52) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,21:26) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 19 2010,19:33) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 19 2010,04:10) Georg said: Quote This is how it reads in my Bible. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Christ is over all, and that is why Paul blesses God for.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=310TO ALL:
Georg has admitted that Christ is “over all” (bold letters). Yet Georg and Irene have repeatedly said in the past that only the Father is above (over) all.
Ephesians 4:6 Young's Literal translation:
6one God and Father of all, who [is] over all, and through all, and in you all,Romans 9:5:
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.The English word “over” is the same Greek word “epi” in both verses.
* The Father is “over (epi) all.”
* Christ is “over (epi) all.”Therefore, God and Christ are EQUAL in authority. Georg has repeatedly said that only the Father is over all. Now Georg admits that Christ is over all. I have asked Georg and Irene to reply and I get nuttin.
Does anyone else here want to go for it?
thinker
thinkerEph 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Does it not say, “Of” Jesus Christ, “by” the will of God?
Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Does it not say, “from” God our Father, “and from” the Lord Jesus Christ?
Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Does it not say, the God “and” Father “of” our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do scriptures really matter to you?
Georg
Georg,You are not owning up to what you have said in the past. You have repeatedly said that the Father ALONE is over all. Now you admit that Jesus Christ is over all.
Does this not mean that the Father and the Son are EQUAL in authority?
You think that Christ is inferior because the Father exalted Him. But WJ and I have answered this a million times. Paul said that Jesus made Himself nothing and took the form of a servant.
The Father did not make Jesus nothing. Jesus made Himself nothing and so God exalted Him. Jesus became inferior on His own.
He was ORIGINALLY equal with God but became under God ON HIS OWN.
You are insincere because you say now that Jesus is “over all” but still try to find a way to dance around it.
CHRIST IS OVER ALL. YES OR NO!
Geez! What is so difficult about this?
thinker
thinkerDo you need my reply in braille?
Georg
Georg,I sarcasm all you have left?
thinker
tt
YOU SAY;He was ORIGINALLY equal with God but became under God ON HIS OWN.
IF HE WAS EQUAL TO GOD HE WOULD HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS HAS GOD;LIKE NO MAN CAN SEE HIM AND LIVE,CAN NOT DIE,NO MAN CAN SEE HIM BECAUSE HE IS SPIRIT,AND AFTER ALL WHY SHOULD IT BE HIM AND NOT THEY OTHER ONE WHO GOES TO DO THE JOB ??
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