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All,
I expect many to believe I have gone off the deep end on this one (probably too late for that though). But I believe God revealed this to me and I haven't found where it contradicts scripture, actually quite the opposite, it seems to blend well with the whole of scripture (although it will clash badly with some doctrines of men).
God and The Nature of CreationGod is not a name, it is a title to an “office”. There is only one true “God”; the Father, He is the source of, and for, everything. Desiring fellowship from sentient beings whose choice it was to love and worship Him. Beings that, (by limiting His foreknowledge) could surprise Him, beings that He didn’t already know everything about. I believe the Father desired friends and family, with an intimacy so close that it is portrayed for us by what a marriage should be (and thank God I have one).
Science believes there are anywhere from 10 to 26 dimensions with most of them beyond our senses. The Father exists at the highest dimension far above His creations, the realms He created are unable to contain Him. Lower dimensions only exist within higher dimensions, not the other way around. We see this displayed for us within the first three dimensions that we can perceive (you can have a line in a box, but not a box in a line). Time is the upper most dimension and governs all of creation however the Father is above time thus allowing Him to be everywhere at once.
The following is what I believe He showed me to be a summary of the plan He used to bring about this new creation.At some point in eternity past, back before our part of story had its beginning recorded. The Father laid the foundation for a new creation to be governed by time (only the Father exceeds the time level). This new creation consisted of a number of dimensions (a framework) sufficient for the existence of souls (the highest form of existence), in which the Father creates souls as blank slates (the soul being the sense of self making the choices regardless of what plane of reality it may dwell in). To avoid basically “programing” them (which is not what He was after), He made it so the souls would get their “programing” from the experiences and choices made while dwelling within their respective level and in the interacting with the other souls.
The Father then created a spiritual realm (a new reality, a band of existence for the awareness of said souls to operate in) for these eternal souls to express themselves in, and to learn from experiences. As the laws that would govern this spiritual reality came into play, God was manifested as everything the constraint of this new reality could possibly support of the Father, this was the Holy Spirit. It allowed Him to interact vicariously through the Holy Spirit as His “agent” to this level of creation called Heaven.
Heaven is made up of several “midrange” dimensions (archangels at the highest are the more powerful). As the Father began planting souls (starting at the higher dimensions), the resulted beings manifested to dwell within that dimension and all Heaven was in harmony, singing praises to the Father and interacting with Him and all was as it should be.
However, while there is much that we do not understand about the “physics” of the Spiritual realm, we do know (in hindsight) that these beings have free wills, and that by making a wrong choice their spirit is cut off from the source of life and that soul begins to corrupt, ultimately spreading it’s disease and endangering other souls that it interacts with.
So when sin was first found in satan it was only apparent to God. The challenge that God faced was that He knew that this corruption would spread and could ruin (resulting in the loss of) the entire group of souls that He loved so much, but if He just destroyed satan then many of the beings in Heaven wouldn’t be following Him out of love, but fear. So He created the Lake of Fire to destroy the irredeemable (which I believe that those exposed to God’s glory and still allow sin a place cannot be redeemed), and it was at this point that God created man with the express purpose of exposing what sin would do if allowed to run unchecked, except doing it in a finite environment that could be redeemed. Through this He would show the length He would go, and the price He would pay, to redeem His creation if it was possible.
So the Father created a new finite realm at near the lowest dimension levels that a soul can express itself in (and so starts Gen 1:1). As the laws for this reality came into play, God was once again manifested in this new reality as everything the constraints of the reality could possibly support of the Father. Now this corporeal manifestation was the pre-incarnate Jesus (“God manifested in the flesh”) “the exact representation of his being”, manifested at the birth of our reality. It allowed the Father to interact vicariously through the pre-incarnate Christ as His “agent” to this level of creation called earth.
With the host of Heaven watching satan easily spread sin to this finite realm and the results were quickly apparent and it seemed as though there was little that could be done to prevent satan from becoming the god of this reality. But at the appropriate time the corporeal manifestation of the Father was emptied and planted into Mary by the Holy Spirit.
Born human in every way except not having a sin nature, this living soul was programmed as all others from the ground up but with a spirit in communion with the Father He grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man. Now a separate being from the Father (His only begotten Son, this essence of God) having His own will He found Himself in conflict with the Father’s will (on the impending separation from the Father at death) but He proved to be faithful and paid the ransom for all men. He was given all authority on Heaven and earth, and a glorified body that can move between realities at will, unlike the angels who must pass through portals (Jacob’s ladder).
The reason Jesus needed to go to Heaven before the comforter could be sent was so His spirit could touch the spirits of all mankind and those touching back were given the Holy Spirit unto salvation. Any appearances of Jesus after Pentecost were like eyes being opened (Elisha's servant) to see spiritual beings. Hence Jesus became a life giving spirit reestablishing fellowship with the Father for all other souls of man, His brothers, all who had put their trust in the love of God. The Spirit grows within them the character needed for eternity.
As the Father brings the ages of man to a close satan will become so overtly evil that the angels will, after having enough of it, throw satan and his angels out of heaven. Jesus will then physically return to earth, satan will be imprisoned for 1000 years and Jesus will rule and show all, what life would have been like without satan. However to remove even a possibility of doubt satan will be released to once again show why he cannot be redeemed.
God then “balances the books” and causes all those found without love to be appropriately punished (proportional to their sins) and as they perish in the lake of fire, Jesus submits the Kingdom; Himself, His brothers, and all of creation, back to The Father.
To Put It Another Way
The Father created two bands of existence for the expression/teaching of souls. Souls are “vertical” existences that can intersect with “horizontal” realities that God created.
•The first was spiritual the embodiment of intellect and power, host to the emotions providing an interface to the spiritual existence.
•The second, a corporeal existence the source of sensations, desires, memories, thoughts, and reasoning providing an interface to the tangible existence.
A glorified body is one that can manifest at any levelThe spiritual manifestation of the Father was the Holy Spirit allowing His awaren
ess of all living things to permeate both heaven and earth. The Father is so far beyond His creation(s), that He interacts vicariously through His “agents” (His Son and the Holy Spirit), that is why Jesus came explaining the Father.This manifestation having the makings of this reality, but with the essence of God, was at the opportune time sent to pay the ransom for all men and fulfill the secret of God, to make possible the age of grace.
This essence of the Father’s corporeal manifestation was emptied of all but the nature of God and impregnated into Mary in a manner that she remained a virgin. This image of the Father was born into a child, not having a sin nature, but fully human.The only real consequences to this life are the ones that prepare our soul for eternity. A prepared soul is one who is fit to be placed into the body of Christ. Adam walked with God but as the new creation we chose God (although He first chose us). I believe God showed me that the Kingdom of God on a spiritual level is like birds flocking, the Spirit binding everyone together so they move in concert, making a beautiful “music” unto the Father. Praise His Holy name.
Thanks to all who take the time to read this and reply.I would appreciate scriptures if you disagree.
Wm
A point I don't believe I was clear on is that many (myself included) tend to believe that our spirit/soul is something “less”, just an essence of ourselves. Actually the “invisible” spiritual “side” is the greater existence. The reason it is “invisible” to us is not due to it's lacking the corporeal “dimensions” but the addition of higher dimensions rendering it beyond our senses. And while we have a spiritual “higher” self in us, we were not made to dwell (have our existence or awareness) in the Heavenly realm and must await the glorious bodies that will be given to all who have trusted in God at the return of Jesus.
Wm
Every word, I believe it is from a dream/vision that God gave me but I want to check it out in case I've been decieved, but it sure does seem to fit, time will tell.
Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 25 2012,19:55) God and The Nature of Creation God is not a name, it is a title to an “office”. There is only one true “God”; the Father, He is the source of, and for, everything. Desiring fellowship from sentient beings whose choice it was to love and worship Him. Beings that, (by limiting His foreknowledge) could surprise Him, beings that He didn’t already know everything about. I believe the Father desired friends and family, with an intimacy so close that it is portrayed for us by what a marriage should be (and thank God I have one).
Science believes there are anywhere from 10 to 26 dimensions with most of them beyond our senses. The Father exists at the highest dimension far above His creations, the realms He created are unable to contain Him. Lower dimensions only exist within higher dimensions, not the other way around. We see this displayed for us within the first three dimensions that we can perceive (you can have a line in a box, but not a box in a line). Time is the upper most dimension and governs all of creation however the Father is above time thus allowing Him to be everywhere at once.
The following is what I believe He showed me to be a summary of the plan He used to bring about this new creation.At some point in eternity past, back before our part of story had its beginning recorded. The Father laid the foundation for a new creation to be governed by time (only the Father exceeds the time level). This new creation consisted of a number of dimensions (a framework) sufficient for the existence of souls (the highest form of existence), in which the Father creates souls as blank slates (the soul being the sense of self making the choices regardless of what plane of reality it may dwell in). To avoid basically “programing” them (which is not what He was after), He made it so the souls would get their “programing” from the experiences and choices made while dwelling within their respective level and in the interacting with the other souls.
The Father then created a spiritual realm (a new reality, a band of existence for the awareness of said souls to operate in) for these eternal souls to express themselves in, and to learn from experiences. As the laws that would govern this spiritual reality came into play, God was manifested as everything the constraint of this new reality could possibly support of the Father, this was the Holy Spirit. It allowed Him to interact vicariously through the Holy Spirit as His “agent” to this level of creation called Heaven.
Heaven is made up of several “midrange” dimensions (archangels at the highest are the more powerful). As the Father began planting souls (starting at the higher dimensions), the resulted beings manifested to dwell within that dimension and all Heaven was in harmony, singing praises to the Father and interacting with Him and all was as it should be.
However, while there is much that we do not understand about the “physics” of the Spiritual realm, we do know (in hindsight) that these beings have free wills, and that by making a wrong choice their spirit is cut off from the source of life and that soul begins to corrupt, ultimately spreading it’s disease and endangering other souls that it interacts with.
So when sin was first found in satan it was only apparent to God. The challenge that God faced was that He knew that this corruption would spread and could ruin (resulting in the loss of) the entire group of souls that He loved so much, but if He just destroyed satan then many of the beings in Heaven wouldn’t be following Him out of love, but fear. So He created the Lake of Fire to destroy the irredeemable (which I believe that those exposed to God’s glory and still allow sin a place cannot be redeemed), and it was at this point that God created man with the express purpose of exposing what sin would do if allowed to run unchecked, except doing it in a finite environment that could be redeemed. Through this He would show the length He would go, and the price He would pay, to redeem His creation if it was possible.
So the Father created a new finite realm at near the lowest dimension levels that a soul can express itself in (and so starts Gen 1:1). As the laws for this reality came into play, God was once again manifested in this new reality as everything the constraints of the reality could possibly support of the Father. Now this corporeal manifestation was the pre-incarnate Jesus (“God manifested in the flesh”) “the exact representation of his being”, manifested at the birth of our reality. It allowed the Father to interact vicariously through the pre-incarnate Christ as His “agent” to this level of creation called earth.
With the host of Heaven watching satan easily spread sin to this finite realm and the results were quickly apparent and it seemed as though there was little that could be done to prevent satan from becoming the god of this reality. But at the appropriate time the corporeal manifestation of the Father was emptied and planted into Mary by the Holy Spirit.
Born human in every way except not having a sin nature, this living soul was programmed as all others from the ground up but with a spirit in communion with the Father He grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man. Now a separate being from the Father (His only begotten Son, this essence of God) having His own will He found Himself in conflict with the Father’s will (on the impending separation from the Father at death) but He proved to be faithful and paid the ransom for all men. He was given all authority on Heaven and earth, and a glorified body that can move between realities at will, unlike the angels who must pass through portals (Jacob’s ladder).
The reason Jesus needed to go to Heaven before the comforter could be sent was so His spirit could touch the spirits of all mankind and those touching back were given the Holy Spirit unto salvation. Any appearances of Jesus after Pentecost were like eyes being opened (Elisha's servant) to see spiritual beings. Hence Jesus became a life giving spirit reestablishing fellowship with the Father for all other souls of man, His brothers, all who had put their trust in the love of God. The Spirit grows within them the character needed for eternity.
As the Father brings the ages of man to a close satan will become so overtly evil that the angels will, after having enough of it, throw satan and his angels out of heaven. Jesus will then physically return to earth, satan will be imprisoned for 1000 years and Jesus will rule and show all, what life would have been like without satan. However to remove even a possibility of doubt satan will be released to once again show why he cannot be redeemed.
God then “balances the books” and causes all those found without love to be appropriately punished (proportional to their sins) and as they perish in the lake of fire, Jesus submits the Kingdom; Himself, His brothers, and all of creation, back to The Father.
To Put It Another Way
The Father created two bands of existence for the expression/teaching of souls. Souls are “vertical” existences that can intersect with “horizontal” realities that God created.
•The first was spiritual the embodiment of intellect and power, host to the emotions providing an interface to the spiritual existence.
•The second, a corporeal existence the source of sensations, desires, memories, thoughts, and reasoning providing an interface to the tangible existence.
A glorified body is one that can manifest at any levelThe spiritual manifestation of the Father was the Holy Spirit allowing His awareness of all living things to permeate both heaven and earth. The Father is so far
beyond His creation(s), that He interacts vicariously through His “agents” (His Son and the Holy Spirit), that is why Jesus came explaining the Father.This manifestation having the makings of this reality, but with the essence of God, was at the opportune time sent to pay the ransom for all men and fulfill the secret of God, to make possible the age of grace.
This essence of the Father’s corporeal manifestation was emptied of all but the nature of God and impregnated into Mary in a manner that she remained a virgin. This image of the Father was born into a child, not having a sin nature, but fully human.The only real consequences to this life are the ones that prepare our soul for eternity. A prepared soul is one who is fit to be placed into the body of Christ. Adam walked with God but as the new creation we chose God (although He first chose us). I believe God showed me that the Kingdom of God on a spiritual level is like birds flocking, the Spirit binding everyone together so they move in concert, making a beautiful “music” unto the Father. Praise His Holy name.
Hi Wm,I enlarged the print so it is easier to read.
When did you have this dream/vision?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThanks, I also went ahead and removed the quote from the original to make it bigger.
I had it a few weeks ago.
Wm
Hi William,
So I think you are saying that the Son is not really the Son of God the Father but an image of the manifestation of God the Father as much as possible within this realm. Is that correct?Blessings,
KathiHi Kathi,
To a point, prior to His emptying Himself to be used to impregnate Mary, I believe He was basically just a corporeal manifestation of the Father. But after Mary gave birth He truly became the only begotten Son of God.Wm
Thanks William, so does the manifestation have a mind and will of its own apart from the Father, before Mary?
Kathi
Kathi,
I believe that in the nature of this corporeal band of existence, the manifestation of the Father included a mind providing memories, thoughts, and reasoning typical to what we have. But as to a will, that is the soul, and that I do not believe happened until He was conceived within Mary, just as all of us began within our mother's womb.My opinion (I'm not sure this has been revealed in full at this time) – Wm
Ok William. Is the manifestation without choice and completely controlled by the Father or can it choose? Is this manifestation called the Word in John 1:1? Sorry for all these questions but I am trying to understand you.
WM
I can not see any scriptures,and the language is different ,is this for clarification
?Is this what you can understand the scriptures
If so it should remain your own ,
Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 25 2012,19:55) All,
I expect many to believe I have gone off the deep end on this one (probably too late for that though). But I believe God revealed this to me and I haven't found where it contradicts scripture, actually quite the opposite, it seems to blend well with the whole of scripture (although it will clash badly with some doctrines of men).Quote Desiring fellowship from sentient beings whose choice it was to love and worship Him. Beings that, (by limiting His foreknowledge) could surprise Him, beings that He didn’t already know everything about. I believe the Father desired friends and family, with an intimacy so close that it is portrayed for us by what a marriage should be (and thank God I have one).
If you mean the tyrant god of Judeo-christian mythology, then what about all the smitings? Presumably I don’t need to give you the scripture for those.Quote Science believes there are anywhere from 10 to 26 dimensions with most of them beyond our senses.
Can you please either cite a reference for this, or maybe consider retracting the claim if you can’t substantiate it? There are ideas called “string theories” that require 11 dimensions for the mathematical models to work, but that does not refer to anything concrete.Quote Lower dimensions only exist within higher dimensions, not the other way around. We see this displayed for us within the first three dimensions that we can perceive (you can have a line in a box, but not a box in a line). Time is the upper most dimension and governs all of creation however the Father is above time thus allowing Him to be everywhere at once.
Nope. All dimensions are at right angles to all other dimensions. They are all equivalent, there is no hierarchy. When you say something is “above time”, wouldn’t that mean it would be everywhen at once?The following is what I believe He showed me to be a summary of the plan He used to bring about this new creation.
Quote It allowed Him to interact vicariously through the Holy Spirit as His “agent” to this level of creation called Heaven.
And so you risk kick-starting yet another hilarious trinity catfight. Full of fury, as if all these Imaginary Beings actually existed, and it was critically important that they did.Quote However, while there is much that we do not understand about the “physics” of the Spiritual realm
Name even one thing you could say that is a physical fact about the “spiritual realm”. I think I can, by the way, but I bet you can’t say anything meaningful about the physics of spirituality. But I am always happy to be proved wrong.Quote So when sin was first found in satan it was only apparent to God. The challenge that God faced was that He knew that this corruption would spread and could ruin (resulting in the loss of) the entire group of souls that He loved so much, but if He just destroyed satan then many of the beings in Heaven wouldn’t be following Him out of love, but fear. So He created the Lake of Fire to destroy the irredeemable (which I believe that those exposed to God’s glory and still allow sin a place cannot be redeemed), and it was at this point that God created man with the express purpose of exposing what sin would do if allowed to run unchecked, except doing it in a finite environment that could be redeemed. Through this He would show the length He would go, and the price He would pay, to redeem His creation if it was possible. You’ve obviously got a good brain. How have you allowed it to be so badly distracted by all this fantasy claptrap?
Born human in every way except not having a sin nature,
Not being a christian, I am a human without a “sin nature”. So that is me and Jesus at least. And billions of other non-abrahamists in the world.Quote God then “balances the books” and causes all those found without love to be appropriately punished (proportional to their sins) and as they perish in the lake of fire, Jesus submits the Kingdom; Himself, His brothers, and all of creation, back to The Father.
Three nasty totalitarian fascists in one.Stuart
Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 25 2012,19:55) All,
I expect many to believe I have gone off the deep end on this one (probably too late for that though). But I believe God revealed this to me and I haven't found where it contradicts scripture, actually quite the opposite, it seems to blend well with the whole of scripture (although it will clash badly with some doctrines of men).
(bad formatting above … attempt two)Quote Desiring fellowship from sentient beings whose choice it was to love and worship Him. Beings that, (by limiting His foreknowledge) could surprise Him, beings that He didn’t already know everything about. I believe the Father desired friends and family, with an intimacy so close that it is portrayed for us by what a marriage should be (and thank God I have one).
If you mean the tyrant god of Judeo-christian mythology, then what about all the smitings? Presumably I don’t need to give you the scripture for those.Quote Science believes there are anywhere from 10 to 26 dimensions with most of them beyond our senses.
Can you please either cite a reference for this, or maybe consider retracting the claim if you can’t substantiate it? There are ideas called “string theories” that require 11 dimensions for the mathematical models to work, but that does not refer to anything concrete.Quote Lower dimensions only exist within higher dimensions, not the other way around. We see this displayed for us within the first three dimensions that we can perceive (you can have a line in a box, but not a box in a line). Time is the upper most dimension and governs all of creation however the Father is above time thus allowing Him to be everywhere at once.
Nope. All dimensions are at right angles to all other dimensions. They are all equivalent, there is no hierarchy. When you say something is “above time”, wouldn’t that mean it would be everywhen at once?The following is what I believe He showed me to be a summary of the plan He used to bring about this new creation.
Quote It allowed Him to interact vicariously through the Holy Spirit as His “agent” to this level of creation called Heaven.
And so you risk kick-starting yet another hilarious trinity catfight. Full of fury, as if all these Imaginary Beings actually existed, and it was critically important that they did.Quote However, while there is much that we do not understand about the “physics” of the Spiritual realm
Name even one thing you could say that is a physical fact about the “spiritual realm”. I think I can, by the way, but I bet you can’t say anything meaningful about the physics of spirituality. But I am always happy to be proved wrong.Quote So when sin was first found in satan it was only apparent to God. The challenge that God faced was that He knew that this corruption would spread and could ruin (resulting in the loss of) the entire group of souls that He loved so much, but if He just destroyed satan then many of the beings in Heaven wouldn’t be following Him out of love, but fear. So He created the Lake of Fire to destroy the irredeemable (which I believe that those exposed to God’s glory and still allow sin a place cannot be redeemed), and it was at this point that God created man with the express purpose of exposing what sin would do if allowed to run unchecked, except doing it in a finite environment that could be redeemed. Through this He would show the length He would go, and the price He would pay, to redeem His creation if it was possible.
You’ve obviously got a good brain. How have you allowed it to be so badly distracted by all this fantasy claptrap?Quote Born human in every way except not having a sin nature
Not being a christian, I am a human without a “sin nature”. So that is me and Jesus at least. And billions of other non-abrahamists in the world.Quote God then “balances the books” and causes all those found without love to be appropriately punished (proportional to their sins) and as they perish in the lake of fire, Jesus submits the Kingdom; Himself, His brothers, and all of creation, back to The Father.
Three nasty totalitarian fascists in one.Stuart
What can I say stu, of all the doctrines of men that I would expect this postulation to clash with, atheists were at the very top of the list. And yes, I have allowed all this “fantasy claptrap” (scriptures to the rest of us) to more than distract me, my whole worldview & life are based on them.
Wm
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2012,13:23) WM I can not see any scriptures,and the language is different ,is this for clarification
?Is this what you can understand the scriptures
If so it should remain your own ,
Yes Pierre this is my attempt to use different words to describe something beyond words.I am not trying to convince anyone at this point (thus the lack of references) but anyone who has studied scripture should see that there was at least an attempt to align the postulation with what scripture teaches. What I'm looking for is to see if someone can pull out scripture(s) that disproves this postulation (taking into account the bias of men's doctrines of course). In which case I chalk it up to “bad pizza the night before” and move on.
As to it “remaining my own” I thought I could bring this to my friends for their help, sorry you were offended.
Wm
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2012,12:58) Ok William. Is the manifestation without choice and completely controlled by the Father or can it choose? Is this manifestation called the Word in John 1:1? Sorry for all these questions but I am trying to understand you.
Kathi,
No problem at all with the questions, it is a difficult concept to understand and I appreciate you taking the time trying understand it, otherwise how could you advise me.Yes I believe that when the Father spoke the foundations into place which bought about this manifestation, that it bought about the literal Word of God.
I believe that His corporeal mind may have generated an opinion but prior to His birth it really never was a question of the manifestation (this messenger of God) doing the will of the Father.
I want to thank you, your one of the few I can count on for an honest dialog (not that we always have to agree) having proved yourself to be a true friend and sister in the Lord.
Thanks – Wm
Hi William,
You are very welcome. It is my pleasure to be considered your true friend and sister in the LordQuote Yes I believe that when the Father spoke the foundations into place which bought about this manifestation, that it bought about the literal Word of God. Here you have the foundation and the manifestation coming into existence at different times…the foundations spoken into place first and then comes the manifestation second.
If the Word was in the beginning and with God, and then all things came into being after the Word was with God, your theory has a problem with sequence. What do you think?
John 1:1-3
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into beingQuote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 26 2012,20:45) What can I say stu, of all the doctrines of men that I would expect this postulation to clash with, atheists were at the very top of the list. And yes, I have allowed all this “fantasy claptrap” (scriptures to the rest of us) to more than distract me, my whole worldview & life are based on them. Wm
But more to the point you don't have answers to my criticisms.So am I to conclude therefore that you agree it can be characterised as claptrap, and quite possibly it makes no valid points about atheists or any other people with whom you “expect this postulation to clash”? And indeed it may make no valid points about the universe or our place in it. It might be literature and nothing more?
Stuart
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