GOD (Elohim)–It's meaning

[david]

Is Jesus God? Is the holy spirit God? Is there only one true God?
Isn't Satan called a god? Aren't the angels called gods? Wasn't Moses called a god to Aaron and a god to Pharoah? Weren't the Isaraelite judges called gods?

The word “God” is thrown around a lot on this site. What does the Bible indicate it means.
People spend thousands of hours arguing over whether Jesus is the God of the Bible. I think a look into how the word “god” is used in the Bible is in order.

Jehovah is called God a thousand times or so.
He's called the only true God.
Jesus is also called God.
So what does this mean?
I think in order to know what it means, we must know what the word God means.

One concordance gives the meaning of elohim this way: “Elohim, G-d (plural of majesty; plural in form but singular in meaning, with a focus on great power); g-ds (true grammatical plural); and person characterized by greatness of power, mighty one, great one, judge” (Zondervan NIV Exhaustive Concordance).

Of course, if you looked up the word God in most dictionaries, it would tell you who the God of the Bible is, who Jehovah is.
But, this isn't he meaning of the word, since the word God is ascribed to ones who certainly aren't Jehovah.

I am concerned not with what dictionaries say, but with how the word “god” is used in the Bible, in order to figure out what the actual meaning of that word is.
In what way were the Israelite judges gods?
In what way are the angels gods?
Why is Satan called a god?
What did it mean that Moses was made a god to Pharoah?

I would also like to say this:
IT IS FALSE LOGIC AND JUST WRONG THINKING TO ASSUME THAT BECAUSE THERE IS “ONLY ONE TRUE GOD” THAT EVERYONE ELSE THAT IS CALLED GOD IS EITHER A PART OF THAT GODHEAD OR FALSE. We know this because the word “god” applies to those listed above.

I believe that “god” essentially means “Mighty one, strong one, etc.”

FALSE GODS:

The false gods of the Bible were things that had no power at all, yet people acted as though they did.

PSALM 115:4-8
“Their idols are silver and gold, The work of the hands of earthling man. A mouth they have, but they cannot speak; Eyes they have, but they cannot see; Ears they have, but they cannot hear. A nose they have, but they cannot smell. Hands are theirs, but they cannot feel. Feet are theirs, but they cannot walk; They utter no sound with their throat. Those making them will become just like them, All those who are trusting in them.” (see rev 9:20; acts 17:29)

Such hand made idos were certainly false gods. People look to and trust in false gods, but in reality, they have no power, they are nothing. (1 cor 10:19)

Those who are rightly called gods in the Bible do have power and might.

I also think that people have a tendancy to connect the thought of true with false.
Someone can smile a little. And you ask them to smile more for the camera. “Ah, now that's a true smile,” they say. Does this mean the other smile was a false smile? Nope! It doesn't.

Or if I said:
“Is 1:18, now there's a true man. He is forceful in his convictions, etc. He's the only true man on here.”
People would understand what I'm saying. They wouldn't think that everyone else is a “false man,” or a girl or anything like that. They wouldn't think that I, the one saying it is implying that I, myself am a false man.

A group of guys are hanging out. Out of all of them, Ted is the only true man there. Does this mean the rest are girls? Or what? Could it be that the rest are quite young? Yes, it could. But, for some reason, when we hear the expression, the “only true God” we take it to mean that anyone else that is called “god” is a false god, meaning, not really a god at all.
When I say that Ted is the only true man, it doesn’t mean that everyone else there are “false” men, does it? We wouldn’t go around calling those boys “false” men. They are simply not truly men! Why is this difficult to understand?
Someone could call them men. But they are not truly men, in the ultimate sense of the word. Ted is the only true man, comparatively speaking.

Yet, the false conclusion is made and presented as fact that if Jehovah is called the only true God, Jesus must either:
1. be a false god
2. be Jehovah

The error in this is twofold: it would mean that the Israelite Judges, the angels, anyone called a god is a false god or Jehovah and secondly, it misses the meaning of the word “god.”

So, these things are worshipped as God, yet they are not “god” in any sense. They have absolutely no power, no might, nothing.

(Deuteronomy 4:28) “And there YOU will have to serve gods, the product of the hands of man, wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or eat or smell.”

False gods seem to be things that are worshiped, yet really have no power, really aren't “gods” at all.

I googled “true.”

I found true poker, true love, true wealth, true color, etc.

Does that mean that other poker is false?
That other love is false?
That other wealth is false?

Jehovah is specificall without question called God (mighty one, strong one) slightly more than a thousand times.
He is also called Almighty 43 times. Someone that is almighty is obviousl a mighty one, a God, the God. Compare to all others, he is God. He is the God of Jesus, as the Bible repeatedly says.

Jesus too is called a God. But he is never spoken of as being his Father's God. Jesus is obvioulsy mighty in power, being “given” all authority and power from his Father.

The judges of Israel were mighty ones compared to the other Israelites.
The angels are mighty ones compared to humans.
Jesus is certainly a mighty one compared to everyone, but Jehovah, who is his mighty one, or God.
And Jehovah is the most high, Almighty, the only true God, therefore.

See:
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/newworl…..43.htm

[Tim2]

Besides YHWH there is no god.

Isaiah 44:6, 8, 45:5, 21, 46:9

“Jesus is too called a God.” No, he's called God. And there's only one, YHWH.

Tim

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hello!

Everyone who has ears to hear.

Here is what Paul the Hebrew of the Hebrews a strict monotheistic Jew says about the “ONE TRUE GOD”.

1 Cor 8:
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is *no such thing as an idol (False gods) in the world*, and that there is no God but one.
5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, (we know there is only “one Lord, the Father and Yeshua/YHWH).
6 yet for us there is but “one God”, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat {food} as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

Let’s break it down.

Vrs 4.
Paul a strict Monotheist, speaks of Idols as being “no such thing” in the world, and that “there is NO GOD but ONE”

Vrs 5.
Paul says they are “So called gods”, and many of them “gods and lords”. We know there is only “ONE LORD” the Father and Yeshua”.

Vrs 6.
Paul declares Yet for us there is but *ONE GOD*. If you say Jesus is “A” God and he is your “LORD”, then that means also he is your God.

Then in the same breath Paul goes on to say the “ONE GOD” is the Father, from whom are all things “and” the Lord Jesus Christ “by whom are all things” and we exist through Him.

If we are “by Jesus” and exist through him then Jesus is our God also.

Vrs 7.
Then Paul declares that not all men have this knowledge.
Then he goes back to the Idols he was speaking of in Vrs 4.

What knowledge do men lack?

It’s the knowledge that there are “so called gods” and “idols” that men worship but “for us” there is only *ONE God*, and *ONE LORD*, The Father and Yeshua!

The context plainly shows the contrast of other so called “gods and lords” with the Father and Yeshua.

Why would Paul speaking to Corinth who was battling with Polytheism and Paganism mention in the same breath The Father and Lord Jesus sharing the same attributes?

He couples them together between scriptures condemning Idol worship and Polytheism.

So since Henotheist and Arian followers (JWs and others) say there are many lords and gods, which is Polytheism and that it’s not wrong to call the Word, Yeshua ‘A’ god”, putting him in the class of the created, then how do you reconcile that with these scriptures.

Deut 4:35
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Deut 4:39
Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

1 Kings 8:60
That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

Isa 454:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, “there is no God beside me”: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

I am quiet sure the Word/YHWY was present when these words were spoken.

The proof text…

Jn 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Jesus is quoting David who prophetically speaking of the Kings and rulers of the Most High.

Ps 8:6
I have said, Ye are gods ('elohiym’ Rulers and Judges); and all of you are children of the most High.

Look at the context of the Psalm, David is talking about judging justly and defending the Fatherless and the poor.

Look at the context of Jesus quote in Jn 10. Jesus is talking about the Fathers Works that he was doing, judging justly and defending the Fatherless and healing the sick and binding up the broken hearted.

Jesus had just stated in vrs 30..

Jn 10:30
I and my Father are one.

So when Jesus was quoting King David in Ps 8:6 was he in any way meaning that we are in the same class of being as the Father and himself?

I think not.

Did not Jesus know the above scriptures that say there is only “ONE” God and none else?

So then Jesus would be breaking the law if we believe he is saying there is other gods in the same class as “The True God”.

They are not gods at all. Paul is clear. They were called gods under the Old Covenant law because they were mediators between God and man.

However, when Yeshua came there is no more need for an agent or mediator, for Jesus is our mediator.

There is no more so called “gods” for our God is our mediator.

Gal 3:20
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

What is Paul saying here? He is saying that a mediator involves two partys, God and man.

Then he says God is One.

So God not only is the one party but he is also the mediator.

The Mediator and God is One!

1 Tim 2:
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jesus is both God and man. The mediator and God is One.

Jesus is God our Savior and there is no other gods.

There is no more agency. The mediator and God is One.

Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is *no saviour*.

Phil 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Tim 2:3
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1 Tim 4:
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe
11 These things command and teach.

When the Word/God came in the likeness of sinfull flesh it was the bringing in of a New Covenant. God is manifest in the flesh and becomes the only way by which man is saved.

God in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself. No more agency for there is One God who is both mediator and God.

There is therefore “One True GOD”.

This means there is only “ONE GOD” who is true.

All other so called gods are not gods at all or they are false.

For to us there is but One God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit!

One day every knee shall bow and confess to God/Jesus that he is Lord to the Glory of God the Father.

We should follow Thomas example and cry out “My Lord and and my God”, and we will hear the words of our Saviour God saying, “Blessed are you because you have believed and yet you have not seen.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
It is the fear of polytheism and breaking the first commandment
that is used to JUSTIFY the use of greek logic instead of scripture
and to proclaim Jesus is also his own father.

No excuse

[Tim2]

Hi Nick,

None of the creeds say that Jesus is His own Father. Why don't you criticize the creeds for what they actually say?

And if you hold that Jesus isn't Yahhweh, how do you follow the first commandment?

Tim

[david]

Quote

Besides YHWH there is no god. Isaiah 44:6, 8, 45:5, 21, 46:9 “Jesus is too called a God.” No, he's called God. And there's only one, YHWH.

Right Tim, beside Jehovah there is no god. And the angels are called gods. What does this mean? I think we have to have a better sense of what the word “god” means to understand this.

Besides Jehovah, there is no mighty one (God), for Jehovah is Almighty, without limit to his mightiness.
Jehovah is the only true God compared to all others. Compared to all others, there is no God.
But that doesn't mean that other ones don't have great mightiness. Jesus, for example has been “given” vast authority and power BY his Father. He therefore can too righty be described as being a mighty one, a strong one.

Yes, there is only one Jehovah.

(Psalm 83:18) “That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.”

It's not a matter of whether the word “God” applies to Jesus, for that word fits him and it fits him to a much greater degree than it fit the Israelite judges or the angels.

Several times we are told that the Father is God to Jesus. This means that compared to Jesus, the Father is a mighty one, a strong one. Indeed, he is described as Almighty. “The Father is greater than I am,” said Jesus.
Jesus had a God, his Father.

To us, Jesus can certainly be called God. To the Israelites, there judges were mighty ones. To us, the angels are of course mighty ones.
But to everyone, (including Jesus) there is only one who is above all. There is only one true God–Jehovah.

[Tim2]

Hi Nick,

Yahweh is the Holy One. Jesus is the Holy One. Yahweh is the first and the last. Jesus is the first and the last.

You shall have no gods before Yahweh. Jesus is my God.

Tim

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (david @ April 05 2007,20:53)

Quote Besides YHWH there is no god. Isaiah 44:6, 8, 45:5, 21, 46:9 “Jesus is too called a God.”  No, he's called God.  And there's only one, YHWH. Right Tim, beside Jehovah there is no god.  And the angels are called gods.  What does this mean?  I think we have to have a better sense of what the word “god” means to understand this. Besides Jehovah, there is no mighty one (God), for Jehovah is Almighty, without limit to his mightiness. Jehovah is the only true God compared to all others.  Compared to all others, there is no God. But that doesn't mean that other ones don't have great mightiness.  Jesus, for example has been “given” vast authority and power BY his Father.  He therefore can too righty be described as being a mighty one, a strong one. Yes, there is only one Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18) “That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.” It's not a matter of whether the word “God” applies to Jesus, for that word fits him and it fits him to a much greater degree than it fit the Israelite judges or the angels.   Several times we are told that the Father is God to Jesus.  This means that compared to Jesus, the Father is a mighty one, a strong one.  Indeed, he is described as Almighty.  “The Father is greater than I am,” said Jesus. Jesus had a God, his Father.   To us, Jesus can certainly be called God.  To the Israelites, there judges were mighty ones.  To us, the angels are of course mighty ones. But to everyone, (including Jesus) there is only one who is above all.  There is only one true God–Jehovah.

David

Do you believe the words of Paul?

He says there is no such gods. To us there is but “ONE GOD”.

[david]

Quote

He says there is no such gods. To us there is but “ONE GOD”.

(Jeremiah 2:11) “Has a nation exchanged gods, even for those that are no gods?
(Isaiah 37:19) “And there was a consigning of their gods to the fire, because they were no gods, but the workmanship of man’s hands, wood and stone, so that they destroyed them.”
(Jeremiah 16:20) “Can earthling man make for himself gods when they are no gods?”
(1 Corinthians 8:4) “Now concerning the eating of foods offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but one.”
(Deuteronomy 32:21) “They, for their part, have incited me to jealousy with what is no god; They have vexed me with their vain idols;
(2 Kings 19:18) “And they have consigned their gods to the fire, because they were no gods, but the workmanship of man’s hands, wood and stone; so that they destroyed them.”
(Isaiah 44:10) “Who has formed a god or cast a mere molten image? Of no benefit at all has it been.”
(1 Corinthians 8:5-6) “For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.”

Yes, “to us” as you say, there is one God. And to us there is one lord. And the two are distinguished from each other here. To Jesus, there was one God, or mighty one, or strong one, etc.

Those false gods which were really “no gods” “no god” no gods” etc as mentioned above clearly weren't gods at all, having no power, or might.
THEY WERE PIECES OF STONE OR WOOD, having no power to do good or bad.

Why does the word “god” rightly apply to the angels or the Israelite judges or to Moses in relationship with Pharoah or Moses in relationship to Aaron?
Anyone?

Because of what the word means.

The word means one who is mighty or powerful. The false gods had no power. Now, if there is one who has unlimited power and is described as ALL Mighty several times than that is a special case. Compared to all others (including Jesus) he could rightfully be called the only true God.

And he is.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 05 2007,17:55)

Hello! Everyone who has ears to hear. Here is what Paul the Hebrew of the Hebrews a strict monotheistic Jew says about the “ONE TRUE GOD”. 1 Cor 8: 4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is *no such thing as an idol (False gods) in the world*, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, (we know there is only “one Lord, the Father and Yeshua/YHWH). 6 yet for us there is but “one God”, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. 7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat {food} as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. Let’s break it down. Vrs 4. Paul a strict Monotheist, speaks of Idols as being “no such thing” in the world, and that “there is NO GOD but ONE” Vrs 5. Paul says they are “So called gods”, and many of them “gods and lords”. We know there is only “ONE LORD” the Father and Yeshua”. Vrs 6. Paul declares Yet for us there is but *ONE GOD*. If you say Jesus is “A” God and he is your “LORD”, then that means also he is your God. Then in the same breath Paul goes on to say the “ONE GOD” is the Father, from whom are all things “and” the Lord Jesus Christ “by whom are all things” and we exist through Him. If we are “by Jesus” and exist through him then Jesus is our God also. Vrs 7. Then Paul declares that not all men have this knowledge. Then he goes back to the Idols he was speaking of in Vrs 4. What knowledge do men lack? It’s the knowledge that there are “so called gods” and “idols” that men worship but “for us” there is only *ONE God*, and *ONE LORD*, The Father and Yeshua! The context plainly shows the contrast of other so called “gods and lords” with the Father and Yeshua. Why would Paul speaking to Corinth who was battling with Polytheism and Paganism mention in the same breath The Father and Lord Jesus sharing the same attributes? He couples them together between scriptures condemning Idol worship and Polytheism. So since Henotheist and Arian followers (JWs and others) say there are many lords and gods, which is Polytheism and that it’s not wrong to call the Word, Yeshua ‘A’ god”, putting him in the class of the created, then how do you reconcile that with these scriptures. Deut 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Deut 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. 1 Kings 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else. Isa 454:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, “there is no God beside me”: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. I am quiet sure the Word/YHWY was present when these words were spoken. The proof text… Jn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Jesus is quoting David who prophetically speaking of the Kings and rulers of the Most High. Ps 8:6 I have said, Ye are gods ('elohiym’ Rulers and Judges); and all of you are children of the most High. Look at the context of the Psalm, David is talking about judging justly and defending the Fatherless and the poor. Look at the context of Jesus quote in Jn 10. Jesus is talking about the Fathers Works that he was doing, judging justly and defending the Fatherless and healing the sick and binding up the broken hearted. Jesus had just stated in vrs 30.. Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one. So when Jesus was quoting King David in Ps 8:6 was he in any way meaning that we are in the same class of being as the Father and himself? I think not. Did not Jesus know the above scriptures that say there is only “ONE” God and none else? So then Jesus would be breaking the law if we believe he is saying there is other gods in the same class as “The True God”. They are not gods at all. Paul is clear. They were called gods under the Old Covenant law because they were mediators between God and man. However, when Yeshua came there is no more need for an agent or mediator, for Jesus is our mediator. There is no more so called “gods” for our God is our mediator. Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. What is Paul saying here? He is saying that a mediator involves two partys, God and man. Then he says God is One. So God not only is the one party but he is also the mediator. The Mediator and God is One! 1 Tim 2: 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Jesus is both God and man. The mediator and God is One. Jesus is God our Savior and there is no other gods. There is no more agency. The mediator and God is One. Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is *no saviour*. Phil 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 1 Tim 4: 9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe 11 These things command and teach. When the Word/God came in the likeness of sinfull flesh it was the bringing in of a New Covenant. God is manifest in the flesh and becomes the only way by which man is saved. God in the flesh reconciling the world unto himself. No more agency for there is One God who is both mediator and God. There is therefore “One True GOD”. This means there is only “ONE GOD” who is true. All other so called gods are not gods at all or they are false. For to us there is but One God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit! One day every knee shall bow and confess to God/Jesus that he is Lord to the Glory of God the Father. We should follow Thomas example and cry out “My Lord and and my God”, and we will hear the words of our Saviour God saying, “Blessed are you because you have believed and yet you have not seen.

Excellent!

[Tim2]

David,

You say, “To us, there is one God.” And we confess that God to be Jesus. John 20:28.

Tim

[david]

Quote

All other so called gods are not gods at all or they are false.

Are the angels mighty? Maybe that's why they are called gods.
Were the human Israelite judges mighty? Compared to the other Israelites. Maybe that's why they rightfully were called gods.
Were the gods of wood mighty ones? No. Maybe that's why they are false gods.
Is Jesus a mighty one? Without question.
Is Jehovah, the Almighty a mighty one? Yes, but since he alone (the Father/Jehovah) is ever specifically described as “Almighty” he alone can be called the only true mighty one, the only true God.

[Tim2]

Hi David,

I find it odd that you are arguing that there are other gods we should consider besides YHWH.

Whoever spoke in Revelation 1:8 is the Almighty. But Jesus says the same thing in the rest of the book.

Tim

[david]

Quote

I find it odd that you are arguing that there are other gods we should consider besides YHWH.

Um. I'm not. I have repeatedly said that those false gods are “no gods.”

But I am arguing that we should actually consider how the Bible actually portrays that word and how it uses that word to the full so we can actually understand what that word means, as opposed to thinking: “it means Jehovah,” which it obviously doesn't.

Because you see, when we decide to make up what it means, then this leads us to all kinds of errors in thinking. If it means YHWH as you said earlier, then of course that would lead to believe in the trinity. But it doesn't mean YHWH, as it is applied to others rightly, who aren't Jehovah.
It is applied to Jesus. If you believe that God means: Jehovah, then you will say, “Oh, it means “Jehovah” and it is used of Jesus so Jesus=Jehovah.

Well, this is not true. It is ALSO used of others, as we discussed. So something is wrong with certain peoples ideas of what the word means.

I FEEL IT IS EXTRAORDINARILY important to figure out what that word means, as it is central to about 1/3 of all conversations on this site. We take it for granted, or at least, most do.

Quote

Whoever spoke in Revelation 1:8 is the Almighty. But Jesus says the same thing in the rest of the book.

If you look closely, you'll notice that only “Jehovah” or “Father” is ever specifically connected to “Almighty.” All the rest is people trying to make their beliefs fit and speculation. Nowhere is “Jesus” or “Christ” or “Messiah” or “Son” specifically called “Almighty.”

Can we please just focus on what the word “god” means for a little while, and why those others could be called “gods.”

[david]

Tim 2, you stated in the trinity thread:

Quote

David, There is no definition of “god” in the Bible. Some other than YHWH are occasionally called gods. But we are told emphatically, YHWH is the only God. YHWH is our only God. Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, 45:5, 45:14, 45:21, 45:22, 46:9. So I will affirm this without equivocation: YHWH is the only God. If Jesus is called God, it means He is YHWH. End of story.

You say that YHWH is the only true God and others are occasionally called gods.
These others who were called “gods” (the angels for example) weren't false gods, were they?
You say:

Quote

YHWH is the only God. If Jesus is called God, it means He is YHWH. End of story.

By that logic, it would mean that any who have the word “god” applied to them are YHWH. You therefore say “end of story” too early. Because you haven't explained why it is that you believe that Jesus is YHWH when he has that term applied to him, but others aren't YHWH when they have that term applied to them.

This is why I kept asking for a general meaning of the word “god.”
“God” doesn't mean “YHWH.”
Since that word is applied to others, rightly, who are not Jehovah, we can't just say that Jesus is Jehovah, since he's called God. We have to actually consider what the word “god” means, don't we?

I'll again quote this:
“Elohim, G-d (plural of majesty; plural in form but singular in meaning, with a focus on great power); g-ds (true grammatical plural); and person characterized by greatness of power, mighty one, great one, judge” (Zondervan NIV Exhaustive Concordance).

Once we understand what the word actually means and how it is used in ALL OF THE BIBLE, the idea that Jesus is Jehovah because he's called “God” becomes rather silly, I think.
We must look at the whole Bible and how it uses that word in as a whole or in all of the cases.

david

[david]

Quote

Excellent!

–Is 1:18

Ummm. Not really. It didn't address any of my questions and didn't look at the word “god” as it is used as a whole. It left many things unanswered.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Tim2 @ April 05 2007,21:12)

David, You say, “To us, there is one God.”  And we confess that God to be Jesus.  John 20:28. Tim

Hi Tim 2.
How do you align what you teach with what the bible teaches in 1 Cor 8?
” 4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. “

Here it is taught there is one God.
That God for us is identified as the Father.
In the same verse we are told by contradistinction that Christ is rather our Lord?

Seems plain but your God is Christ?

[david]

While looking at the word “god” or “gods” we might as well look at the plural of majesty:

“The Hebrew word ’elo·him′ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ’Elo·him′ is the plural of ’eloh′ah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ’Elo·him′ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.
When applying to Jehovah, ’Elo·him′ is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. (Ge 1:1) Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the O[ld] T[estament] has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . [’Elo·him′] (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [’Elo·him′] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208. . . . .
The word ’elo·him′ is also used when referring to idol gods. Sometimes this plural form means simply “gods.” (Ex 12:12; 20:23) At other times it is the plural of excellence and only one god (or goddess) is referred to. However, these gods were clearly not trinities.—1Sa 5:7b (Dagon); 1Ki 11:5 (“goddess” Ashtoreth); Da 1:2b (Marduk).–Insight, Vol 1, page 968

So, the fact that the word god is used in the plural in no way denotes a trinity, as it is used that way to describe gods that certainly weren't trinities.

[david]

There is a distinction between the Father, our God, and Jesus, who is called our Lord in 1 Cor 8, as Nick points out.
We notice that it's never the other way around. Jesus is never the God of Jehovah, but repeatedly, we're told that Jesus has a God, his Father.
Should we not worship the God of Jesus?
Should we not worship whom Jesus indicated we should worship?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2007,21:49)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 05 2007,21:12) David, You say, “To us, there is one God.”  And we confess that God to be Jesus.  John 20:28. Tim Hi Tim 2. How do you align what you teach with what the bible teaches in 1 Cor 8? ” 4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. “ Here it is taught there is one God. That God for us is identified as the Father. In the same verse we are told by contradistinction that Christ is rather our Lord? Seems plain but your God is Christ?

NH

If we follow your rule for 1 Cor 8:6 then the Father is not Lord!

Jesus is both Lord and God. The Father is both Lord and God!

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