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Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 29 2008,19:41) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 30 2008,11:33) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 29 2008,15:07) Quote (kejonn @ Mar. 29 2008,15:43) Speaking of angels, Christians stay confused because - Heb 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.
2Co 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
And precisely what point are you trying to make here kejonn?? We should not neglect to show hospitality to strangers because in reality it might be Satan himself??
Not me, the bible. After all, it tells us to be hospitable, but obviously also suspicious.
riiiight…
I'm glad you agree.Nick, you state elsewhere
Quote Scripture does offend holders of dogmas.
I almost fell out of my chair laughing. You DO realize that you are perhaps the most dogmatic person on this board, don't you?Dogma: An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.
Hi KJ,
Absolutely.
And you can prove me wrong about anything you like.
But you will have to believe something to be able to do that.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2008,20:46) Hi KJ,
Absolutely.
And you can prove me wrong about anything you like.
But you will have to believe something to be able to do that.
In the immortal words of Stu:“Huh?”
In a thread on FAITH, Nick Hassan said
Quote Hi,
The attacks on faith are based on demanding full understanding. But faith has never needed full understanding or the door would not be open for children. Instead it is based on hope founded in scripture.
Heb 11
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Personally, I don't need full understanding because having such about God is impossible. Even a Christian artist, Chris Rice, got it when he wrote the song “Smell the Color 9”:- I would take no for an answer,
Just to know I heard you speak,
And I'm wondering why I've never,
Seen the signs they claim they see,
A lotta special revelations,
Meant for everybody but me,
Maybe I don't truly know You,
or maybe I just simply believe…Chorus: Cause I can sniff, I can see, and I can
count up pretty high; but these faculties
aren't getting me any closer to the sky,
but my heart of faith keeps poundin' so
I know I'm doin' fine but sometimes findin
you is just like tryin to smell the color nine.
Smell the color nine…Now I've never felt the presence,
But I know You're always near,
And I've never heard the calling,
But somehow You've led me right here,
So I'm not lookin' for burnin' bushes,
Or some Divine graffiti to appear,
I'm just beggin You for Your wisdom,
And I believe You're puttin' some here…Nine's not a color…
and if even if it were you can't smell a color, no
that's my point exactly.But the Gospels run counter to the verse you listed. Jesus supposedly performs many miracles. Why? Because he is trying to show something so people will believe he is who he says he is. When Thomas doubts, he appears to him. He appears to his disciples after his resurrection. He appears as a light and a voice to Paul.
Sadly, he doesn't give anyone else the luxury of a personal experience. I guess it was OK for him to appear to doubters in the 1st century but he doesn't seem to care about anyone else. He'd rather we just believe a book written about him.
Finally, I have the understanding necessary. I do not attack faith, I question whether the bible is a book worthy of God. After reading the OT, my answer is “no”. Not to me anyway. I can no longer make excuses to cover up the brutal view of God in the bible.
Quote (kejonn @ April 05 2008,21:35) Sadly, he doesn't give anyone else the luxury of a personal experience. I guess it was OK for him to appear to doubters in the 1st century but he doesn't seem to care about anyone else. He'd rather we just believe a book written about him.
Kevin, have you never had an “experience” with Jesus? Never?He appeared before, but now we have the spirit of God which is our communication line, our phone, our portal to God and Jesus. Sounds kind of Star Trek, but I've used this line before and what I have found on the other end is life….and it speaks loud and clear.
As for a personal experience, well, I've never “seen” Jesus. But lately that wouldn't surprise me. As Stu likes to point out, religious folks often get dilusional…..as for me, if that means hearing from God and receiving directions from our Lord then bring on the dilusions dude!
keyonn It rather makes me sad that you never experienced the unity in Jesus Christ. The Love that He gives us. That is something one has to experience. To explain that to you is impossible. It is God's Holy Spirit that lives in Jesus and in us that unites us with Jesus and the Father. It says if you have Jesus you have the Father. If you don't have Jesus you don't have the Father.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 05 2008,21:42) Quote (kejonn @ April 05 2008,21:35) Sadly, he doesn't give anyone else the luxury of a personal experience. I guess it was OK for him to appear to doubters in the 1st century but he doesn't seem to care about anyone else. He'd rather we just believe a book written about him.
Kevin, have you never had an “experience” with Jesus? Never?He appeared before, but now we have the spirit of God which is our communication line, our phone, our portal to God and Jesus. Sounds kind of Star Trek, but I've used this line before and what I have found on the other end is life….and it speaks loud and clear.
As for a personal experience, well, I've never “seen” Jesus. But lately that wouldn't surprise me. As Stu likes to point out, religious folks often get dilusional…..as for me, if that means hearing from God and receiving directions from our Lord then bring on the dilusions dude!
Actually, I meant to use the word “appearance” and not “experience”. After all, if Jesus had sent the spirit, why did Saul need the light and voice? We don't even get as much as Saul, do we? All we get is an old book and possibly some goose bumps.Quote (seek and you will find @ April 06 2008,00:11) keyonn It rather makes me sad that you never experienced the unity in Jesus Christ. The Love that He gives us. That is something one has to experience. To explain that to you is impossible. It is God's Holy Spirit that lives in Jesus and in us that unites us with Jesus and the Father. It says if you have Jesus you have the Father. If you don't have Jesus you don't have the Father. Peace and Love Mrs.
Mrs,I really don't know too many Christians who are any more united then any other human being. Close friends can have a unity that equals or exceeds Christians, and Jesus is not needed for that.
Look here. This board basically exists because Christians are NOT unified.
Quote (kejonn @ April 06 2008,18:40) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 06 2008,00:11) keyonn It rather makes me sad that you never experienced the unity in Jesus Christ. The Love that He gives us. That is something one has to experience. To explain that to you is impossible. It is God's Holy Spirit that lives in Jesus and in us that unites us with Jesus and the Father. It says if you have Jesus you have the Father. If you don't have Jesus you don't have the Father. Peace and Love Mrs.
Mrs,I really don't know too many Christians who are any more united then any other human being. Close friends can have a unity that equals or exceeds Christians, and Jesus is not needed for that.
Look here. This board basically exists because Christians are NOT unified.
kejonn You cannot compare a relationship with Jesus and God with a friendly relationship with a friend. No way. You just don't know, otherwise you would not even suggest such a ridiculous idea. It is the Agathe ( I hope I spelled that right)Love that comes from God alone that succeeds all other kind of relationship.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (seek and you will find @ April 06 2008,01:52) Quote (kejonn @ April 06 2008,18:40) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 06 2008,00:11) keyonn It rather makes me sad that you never experienced the unity in Jesus Christ. The Love that He gives us. That is something one has to experience. To explain that to you is impossible. It is God's Holy Spirit that lives in Jesus and in us that unites us with Jesus and the Father. It says if you have Jesus you have the Father. If you don't have Jesus you don't have the Father. Peace and Love Mrs.
Mrs,I really don't know too many Christians who are any more united then any other human being. Close friends can have a unity that equals or exceeds Christians, and Jesus is not needed for that.
Look here. This board basically exists because Christians are NOT unified.
kejonn You cannot compare a relationship with Jesus and God with a friendly relationship with a friend. No way. You just don't know, otherwise you would not even suggest such a ridiculous idea. It is the Agathe ( I hope I spelled that right)Love that comes from God alone that succeeds all other kind of relationship.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Actually, I was speaking of the relationship between Christians when making the comparison. Non-Christian friends have as much of a chance at unity that Christians do.And the word is “agape”.
Quote (kejonn @ April 06 2008,18:37) All we get is an old book and possibly some goose bumps.
This answers my question.Kevin, quit clinging to the flaws of the dried ink and look up! God can and does work though his creation to communicate his truth to us; to communicate his love towards us.
History is only a looking glass into the past. People lived and died just as we will, there is nothing too terribly special about them. Some folks say the bible is the inspired word of God, but I ask, was God only inspired once or twice, or long enough to complile many books that would later be called His Word? I doubt it.
I encourage you to get your nose out of books and the Internet and look up! With hands lifted high, praise the God who lives in heaven and calls earth his footstool. Praise him for the breath in your lungs, for the trees and birds. Praise him for your life here on earth, and for who He is (even if we do not fully comprehend him).
This is more profitable than looking back and wondering how they got it all wrong. God can speak to you today and tell you about himself firsthand.
Quote Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him Synonyms for DILIGENTLY: agilely, animatedly, ardently, arduously, assiduously, briskly, carefully, diligently, eagerly, earnestly, energetically, enthusiastically, expeditiously, fervently, hastily, hurriedly, indefatigably, industriously, laboriously, nimbly, painstakingly, perseveringly, persistently, purposefully, restlessly, seriously, speedily, spiritedly, strenuously, studiously, unremittingly, unweariedly, vigilantly, vigorously, vivaciously, zealous
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 06 2008,13:25) Quote (kejonn @ April 06 2008,18:37) All we get is an old book and possibly some goose bumps.
This answers my question.Kevin, quit clinging to the flaws of the dried ink and look up! God can and does work though his creation to communicate his truth to us; to communicate his love towards us.
Mandy,I know people here can't understand me because I struggle with the bible. However, I do not struggle with God. For some reason, Christians are so ingrained in believing the bible is God's only revelation that they feel to question it is to question God. To some this may be the case but I do not connect God with the bible. Not anymore. I just see it as an insight into how a religion grew.
Quote History is only a looking glass into the past. People lived and died just as we will, there is nothing too terribly special about them. Some folks say the bible is the inspired word of God, but I ask, was God only inspired once or twice, or long enough to complile many books that would later be called His Word? I doubt it. I encourage you to get your nose out of books and the Internet and look up! With hands lifted high, praise the God who lives in heaven and calls earth his footstool. Praise him for the breath in your lungs, for the trees and birds. Praise him for your life here on earth, and for who He is (even if we do not fully comprehend him).
This is more profitable than looking back and wondering how they got it all wrong. God can speak to you today and tell you about himself firsthand.
Actually, I do all of those things. But I also strive to show people that rigid fundamentalism in any religion is damaging. It splinters humanity.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 06 2008,22:10) Hi KJ,
Humanity can be united?Some are sheep and some are goats.
Religion is one of the biggest sources of division in man.Hi KJ,
Quite so.
It is absolutely necessary.
We must be born again from above becoming strangers even to our familyMatthew 10:36
and A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.
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